I know that DmC was set in a parallel universe. but when you Look at it from a different prospective Like story-wise and Character Building you will see that it is connected.
DmC. What was missing?
- Thread starter REAPER 3142
- Start date
I know that DmC was set in a parallel universe. but when you Look at it from a different prospective Like story-wise and Character Building you will see that it is connected.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
Not really, it's called a reboot for a reason.
I could spend a few minutes talking about why i said that they are connected. but i won't because we will end nowhere. so i am going to end it by saying that each one of us has a different opinion about it.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
You are very welcome to tell me in what way they could be connected storywise or in any other way at all.
OppressedWriter
SamD
Here tell me this isn't pretty much, Trickster, watch me teleport around the battlefield. I just feel its more logical in DmC's control scheme and fits into the overall Heaven/Hell theme.
Start at about :30 to start seeing me more angel dodge/trickster, it also has another purpose in DmC, its the dodge you use to make enemies accidentally attack each other.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
You are pretty much just doing normal dodging and Angel Glide. Still not at the level of DMC3/4 Trickster.
OppressedWriter
SamD
It doesn't matter what the name of the skills are, they still are the same mechanics of trickster.
Angel Dash = Trickster Dash
Angel Glide = Trickster Dash in Air
Angel Dodge = Trickster Dodge (Teleport around with invulnerability frames really fast)
Demon Dodge + Angel Dodge = Trickster Dodge on top of Enemy .
It's Trickster with a better control scheme and more control. You can teleport in any direction want unlike Trickster which only teleports you to the enemy you're locked on.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
If it is, it is one hellova lacking trickster style.
OppressedWriter
SamD
Are you even trying to be objective would you care to explain how you utilize Trickster, maybe with a video showcasing your awesome skills? I mean it. Its like I'm being objective playing both games, trying to be rational, and all I get is no its not good enough, or this or that, without any proof to counter my argument. I don't want other player videos, I want videos from the person arguing the gameplay mechanics. Which, in this case, I mean you, because honestly if you're so passionate about Trickster and how its not the same in DmC, show me what you do with Trickster in DMC4 that you feel can't do in DmC with a video of YOU playing.
P.S. Otherwise, don't even bother to post replies to anything I write, I'm not going find much value in your opinion on mechanics without actual display of your DMC4 gameplay skills as backup. If you notice I"m the only one actually posting videos of me playing when trying to make a point.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
Where did I even imply I have awesome gaming skills? I'm decent at DMC3 and somewhat good at DMC4 but I do research and understand the mechanics quite well.
Lets compare the different dodge mechanics between the games then now shall we?
DMC3/4 with the trickster style have the roll dodge that works together with the lockon, the ground dash that can be aimed at any direction and then cancelled with Royal Guard to make another dash in DMC4. You move around like a motherfucker with that. For the air you got air trick which can also be aimed in any direction and teleport that will instantly teleport you to your target. Wallrunning and poleswinging can only be found in DMC3 but were fun as **** to use if the area allowed for it.
DmC got the normal dodge that makes Dante throw his entire body for some distance and his Demon/Angel stance modifies it for two different properties, longer dodge frame for Angel dodge and "Crit mode" for Demon dodge. For the air you have Angel glide and Angel pull since the pull can be considered a "dodge move" when used right.
DMC3/4 normal dodge can't really be compared to DmCs dodge since they work a bit different, DmCs normal dodge is a bit similar to the Trickster ground dash. From what I have seen and talked to my friends that also played DmC indepth, you can't cancel the DmC normal dodge to do another rapid one again, it seems to have longer frames than the Trickster ground dash so it makes it an easier and more powerful dodge.
Here comes the part that bothers me most about the air dodge mechanics in DmC. Angel Glide is essentially Air Trick but the glide have a bit more animation frames to it than Air trick so it doesn't come out as fast. Angel Pull and Teleport also work quite similar but in my experience with DmC, you can't aim for the exact enemy you want to go to due to the lack of lockon, this becomes bothersome in bigger groups where I want to go to a specific enemy. Teleport benefits with the lockon aswell as it performs faster since it skips all the frames the Angel Pull has to do before it reaches your target.
Oh right, DmC also have the normal dodge in the air that moves Dante in a short direction. DMC3/4 doesn't have that one.
So all in all, Trickster style have a bit more versatility to its moves than what DmC offers. Almost the same functionality but more stylish when it comes to Trickster.
Personally, I love how trickster looks and works in DMC3.
PS: I would love to further talk about the mechanics in DMC3/4 and DmC via PM or Steam if you want to. I aim to go a little deeper into DMC4 again for some fun.
OppressedWriter
SamD
Okay, now I have something to try to mimic in DmC to see if I can address the feel or impact you're going for. I will say you're forgetting that you can cancel glide at anytime into angel dodge and its a double tap really fast, as for getting to your enemy, and picking the right one, I doubt even while using trickster you really can pin point the enemy you want and keep the speed momentum you seem to be craving that dmc3 trickster is providing. IN those videos, at best isn't the player (you?) t just pressing enemy toggle and the trickster trick up move towards the enemy they want. You can do the same thing in DmC without lock on, well you can't literally trick up, well Vergil in DmC can, but with Dante, all you have to do is point towards the enemy you want to rapidly move towards and use Calibur, which is as simple as pressing B with angel trigger held. Once you calibur towards an enemy you can cancel it as you're about to reach them, etc, or you can angel dodge to someone else. All of the aquilas skills can be cancelled at any point in the frame with an angel dodge.
Couple other things, roll dodge can't really considered a move now can it, we have dodge in DmC and I think its much more fun and reasonable to map it to a single button. Now you just point and dodge in any direction you want, and I believe Dante rolls in that direction.
As for the Royal Guard cancel, I believe I know what you're talking about, I've seen it in some expert DMC4 videos, however, I still think Royal Guard is overrated, because I doubt enough players used it. And DmC did bring it back, you can parry every attack in DmC, which negates all damage, and then coupled with Demon Dodge boost, you practically have no need for a mechanic like royal guard. and, honestly, does DmC dante even need another buff for parrying, he's already superman in the game in terms of power vs enemies.
Couple other things, roll dodge can't really considered a move now can it, we have dodge in DmC and I think its much more fun and reasonable to map it to a single button. Now you just point and dodge in any direction you want, and I believe Dante rolls in that direction.
As for the Royal Guard cancel, I believe I know what you're talking about, I've seen it in some expert DMC4 videos, however, I still think Royal Guard is overrated, because I doubt enough players used it. And DmC did bring it back, you can parry every attack in DmC, which negates all damage, and then coupled with Demon Dodge boost, you practically have no need for a mechanic like royal guard. and, honestly, does DmC dante even need another buff for parrying, he's already superman in the game in terms of power vs enemies.
REAPER 3142
Revenge Solves Everything..............
This video is without a doubt proof that DmC Dante is just as capable as classic Dante.
OppressedWriter
SamD
I just want to add this little video, a part of the bigger video I'm working on, to further illustrate my point. There is no speed editing or anything going on in this video. The glide is literally the same number of frames, hell it might even be the same animation imported from DMC4 into DmC.
You'll have to go fullscreen at 720p to read the text legibly.
You'll have to go fullscreen at 720p to read the text legibly.
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
Last second dodging an attack (to gain added bonuses to your dodge) and then repositioning back into attack range by continuing the same dodge is impressive, but nothing new, and it leaves a flaw in your argument: That's not trickster, that's table hopper.
This is a DMC4 trickster. Notice how snapping away and back to an enemy is an instantaneous action? There is no windup animation to the abilities, and performing a dodge doesn't cause the game to go into slow motion. Can you imagine if sky star had a windup animation the length that DmC's air dash does? Techniques like star rave would not have been viable if it did, and it certainly shows; in your video sky star is used maybe twice, while truestyle pros are often seen using the ability multiple times per second in classic DMC games.
Earlier I also was commenting on how DmC's "trickster" is no longer as aggressive as it used to be, and this video is a fantastic example of how an aggressive trickster can mercilessly stick to an opponent, the specific trickster tactic shown in the video is most often used on bosses.
Oh, and this one is extra credit. You don't have to watch it at all, nor will I make the assumption that you did (because it's long), but if you're curious, this is basically what you're up against when you invite a mobility comparison between DmC and DMC. There are nero players who are more mobile than you are in your video.
OppressedWriter
SamD
First, please don't say stuff like here's extra credit, it sounds condescending as hell.
Again, you're giving me videos of other players, and yes you're right about Trick Up, if I had to make a comparison which I will it will be with Vergil vs DMC4 dante for that ability. Now as to the Nero thing, well I disagree, lets just say that, I can make a video with more mobility than nero or just as much with regular Dante. If you just want me to do combos on single enemies, that will come later. Right now I"m just working on the moves that are available in each game, then I will do some comparisons of unique mechanics.
One other thing, that's all I ever see combos being done in bloody palace debug or on those rage type enemies, that's another flaw, most of the enemies that allow flexible combos that are creative are non-existent in the game. Try doing some original creative stuff with Blitz, the worst type of colored enemy I've ever seen.
P.S. I thought you played the game, the slomo dodge only happens if you demon dodge, you don't have to demon dodge, and the reason it works better with demon dodge is that enemies move slower when you angel dodge back, ie they stay afloat a second longer etc.
The unique mechanic of Angel Dodge/dash in DmC, there are things you can do in DmC that you cannot in DMC4 that's the point. Again, this is me playing.
Again, you're giving me videos of other players, and yes you're right about Trick Up, if I had to make a comparison which I will it will be with Vergil vs DMC4 dante for that ability. Now as to the Nero thing, well I disagree, lets just say that, I can make a video with more mobility than nero or just as much with regular Dante. If you just want me to do combos on single enemies, that will come later. Right now I"m just working on the moves that are available in each game, then I will do some comparisons of unique mechanics.
One other thing, that's all I ever see combos being done in bloody palace debug or on those rage type enemies, that's another flaw, most of the enemies that allow flexible combos that are creative are non-existent in the game. Try doing some original creative stuff with Blitz, the worst type of colored enemy I've ever seen.
P.S. I thought you played the game, the slomo dodge only happens if you demon dodge, you don't have to demon dodge, and the reason it works better with demon dodge is that enemies move slower when you angel dodge back, ie they stay afloat a second longer etc.
The unique mechanic of Angel Dodge/dash in DmC, there are things you can do in DmC that you cannot in DMC4 that's the point. Again, this is me playing.
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
You've never seen anyone be stylish against a blitz before? Let's fix that for you.
Hell, blitz is actually a popular combo exhibition subject (not only the "rage guys" you mentioned) because that's where people get really creative.
OppressedWriter
SamD
Those videos prove my point instead of yours, I don't understand what's so creative, you still have to utilize a few tactics to break their shields. And Royal Guarding isn't that satisfying to watch.
I did however, enjoy, the Angelo credo video, I know nostalgic, he's very awesome at DMC4.
And I'm not sure why you bolded the dodge causes you to go in slow motion, because you don't have to slomo dodge if you don't want.
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
you're avoiding the point. What you were showing off was actually a demonstration of table hopper, and not trickster. Blitz is irrelevant to this discussion, but we can discuss it later (in a more relevant thread) if you like.
I concluded trickster is gone from DmC in my previous post, and you didn't have anything to say against it. We all settled here?
PS - really? you were completely unimpressed by someone who could block a full blitz lightning channel? Are you for real?
OppressedWriter
SamD
Stop picking and choosing what DMC4 defines as Trickster. GO back and look at what the Trickster style provides: angel dash, and sky star, and then trick up, right so, DmC has 2 of those and also expands them ever so slightly, and it also has angel pull. Ie DmC Dante has Trickster without the a straight teleport mechanic, however, this teleport mechanic does exist for Vergil, so in totality DmC does have Trickster. It's just spread between characters differently.
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
okay good so we're done here.
edit - I'm just making sure. You seriously weren't even impressed by the guy who punched a blitz and just released off of his own attack, but in your eyes dodging an enemy attack and then dodging back into it is the saving grace of DmC trickster?