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Hot news: Itsuno wanted to do a DmC2!

Carlos

A powerful demon
Xen-Omni 2020
The marketing did what marketing does, inform the consumer about the product. Yet, people literally ignored the developers making the game in favor of doomsaying and spreading baseless rumors. People bitched how Dane looked like a drug addict, despite the concise explanation of him being a guy who loves to fight, and therefore gets into fights a lot, which owed to the mugshot of him being all bruised up, but no, people saw that picture, and I guess...assumed he'd just always look that way? Even though injuries heal, and Dante's injuries doubly so. But nooooo, he looks like a drug addict because he happens to be all bruised up!

People also bitched how he didn't have white hair, despite him having a splotch of white from the get-go, and Jones telling people that this was an origin story, and the hair color would make sense in the end. People listened to rumors of dial-a-combo and overheating guns, and not when the devs said that it would play and feel just like a DMC game, that it had the "DNA" the over-the-top slashy-shooty-stylin' franchise is known for.

People brought up concerns, and some were addressed, yet many demanded things as if they knew exactly how the game should be made, which is just flat-out insulting. Heavns no~ Angel Lift can be spammed and it keeps the weakest enemy in the game aloft, it's aaaaall wrong, it must be fixed! Telling the devs that "this should work like this" is bullshit, when it works the way the devs already intended it to. There's nothing the marketing could have done to appease the people who were just angry it wasn't DMC5, and was meant to appeal to a wider audience.

It's fine to not be interested in a game, to each their own, but people were damn-near militant against the game, refusing to listen to what the devs said if it ran counter to their opinion. The games "issues" were made up from it not being DMC5, but it was a damn fine game in and of itself, only made better by the definitive edition.
Look. Let me explain something to you: Marketing is the act of telling people what your product is, and why you should buy the game. DmC's original trailer told us nothing. Capcom just went into TGS10, dropped the trailer, and waited. There was no backstory for this particular version of Dante. Nobody understood why Dante is looking like this beat up, bruised teenage has-been. A lot of people called him the drug addict, punk Dante because he looks emo. Something from the 2000's, there was a time when being emo was popular, but by the time DmC was revealed, this boat has sailed, it was a fad. It's a fad. Not just because of his hair, but the fact that his character model looks like he hurt himself many times.

The first image shows him in jail, with a sort of "I just logged into jail, man." People started asking questions, "What is this?" Then the trailer dropped, people got mad, ****ed off because the trailer show nothing but Dante doing what he does best: Kicking ass. There's a problem, though: Other scenes show a background (a sort of a jail cell, looks like a bathroom in a jail) full of splattered blood, and his mug being in jail. No story, no compelling reason why this character got this drastic change from the grey-haired sarcastic mofo with a sword... None. Okay? That's not how you present a new version of a beloved character. That's not how you "reboot" a character like Dante, especially when Dante didn't need to be "rebooted."

If the original trailer had a story behind it, then I think people would react a bit receptive than they did. But the trailer did nothing. Didn't tell us anything. Whoever did this trailer was stupid. Didn't even understand what made Dante popular in the first place. Dante had a cool story from the minute it (DMC1) was revealed. People had no idea who Dante was, but he was cool enough to be careless, against hordes of enemies tougher than him. So, he got the reputation of a "badass."

DMC4's change was a change of character, like MGS2. The difference, though is that with MGS2, we didn't learn about Raiden until we played the game. In my perspective, I didn't even know Raiden was the final lead character. I think that's how people rioted against MGS2.
 
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V's patron

be loyal to what matters
DmC's marketing was more misguided than malicious. Its more that they underestimated how big of deal this was. One poster on the NT forums explained it as "fans were being too sensitive but capcom/nt weren't sensitive enough".

Still the fact that DmC was a noncanon spinoff with an "unappealing" premise made it a lost cause.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Look. Let me explain something to you: Marketing is the act of telling people what your product is, and why you should buy the game.

I know how marketing works. Don't patronize me.

DmC's original trailer told us nothing. Capcom just went into TGS10, dropped the trailer, and waited.

It was an announcement trailer, nearly every trailer announcing a game is literally just telling you that it's coming at some point. Some games don't get much more than a few seconds to their announcement to flash the title. However, DmC had a trailer that showed enough to imply what it was going to be like - more grounded, with an emphatic story, in a different universe, but still the same old action where we kick demons straight in their Hershey's squirters. Not sure how you got nothing out of all that >_>

They also...didn't "wait"? Not sure where you got that idea. They unveiled the trailer and then had Tameem Antoniades and Alex Jones (not that one) taking interviews to further inform on the direction the installment was taking. They told everyone that it wasn't in the main canon, it was telling a different origin of the character, in a city out to get you, in a world where demons infest authority. They told us that Dante was a scrapper, hence why there was key art of him all roughed up. They told us he loves to fight, and smokes in victory like a post-coital ritual. They told us Capcom came to them to develop a version of DMC that was like a western movie, with a focus on telling a story as much as the action.

There was no backstory for this particular version of Dante.

No backstory? That's sort of jumping the gun, isn't it? They told us it'd be an origin story, and gave us a few key points, but what? You expected them to just spill all the beans? Why would they emphasize the story as a key element to the game, and then tell you everything so you don't have to buy it to find out the story? I thought you understood marketing?

Nobody understood why Dante is looking like this beat up, bruised teenage has-been.

We knew that the same day the trailer dropped. It was a different Dante, and he liked getting into fights, particularly picking fights with authority that he knew were demons.

A lot of people called him the drug addict, punk Dante because he looks emo. Something from the 2000's, there was a time when being emo was popular, but by the time DmC was revealed, this boat has sailed, it's was a fad. It's a fad. Not just because of his hair, but the fact that his character model looks like he hurt himself many times.

Gotta love callin' him "emo!" It's such an easy go-to with absolutely zero basis for explanation. And what...? "the fact that his character model looks like he hurt himself many times"? You're uh...gonna need to explain that one. That's a massive, and laughable, leap in logic.

Also, like, that's massively ****ing insulting to people who suffer from instabilities that cause cutting. Please, chummer, elucidate me on what someone who hurts themself looks like.

The first image shows him in jail, with a sort of "I just logged into jail, man." People started asking questions, "What is this?" Then the trailer dropped, people got mad, ****ed off because the trailer show nothing but Dante doing what he does best: Kicking ass.

So, you say that it showed nothing but Dante kicking ass, but then you mention the other elements of the trailer...

There's a problem, though: Other scenes show a background (a sort of a jail cell, looks like a bathroom in a jail) full of splattered blood, and his mug being in jail. No story, no compelling reason why this character got this drastic change from the grey-haired sarcastic mofo with a sword... None. Okay?

How...is that no story? That's a massive set-up for a story. Those other scenes compel the interested viewer to wonder - why was Dante being tortured? Why is he so angry at the demons? What could possibly be going on in this world? Then of course, we got more information from the devs about it.

That's not how you present a new version of a beloved character. That's not how you "reboot" a character like Dante, especially when Dante didn't need to be "rebooted."

Whether he needed a reboot is a moot point, but how do you present a new version of a beloved character? There's no guidelines of what to do, you just...do it. Or, perhaps this is based off you thinking that they just dropped the trailer with no information, despite that being factually untrue. I watched and read those interviews, because I wanted to know what was up.

It's also not up to you, or even me, to decide how a character like Dante is rebooted, it's up to the developers given what they're going for.

If the original trailer had a story behind it, then I think people would react a bit receptive than they did. But the trailer did nothing. Didn't tell us anything.

It did, with enough of the hints of the story as what you'd expect from a product where the story is an important element. They aren't going to throw out everything and spoil the story. What do you want, a movie trailer from 2015 with all the best parts in it?

Whoever did this trailer was stupid.

Hahaha, no.

Didn't even understand what made Dante popular in the first place. Dante had a cool story from the minute it (DMC1) was revealed. People had no idea who Dante was, but he was cool enough to be careless, against hordes of enemies tougher than him. So, he got the reputation of a "badass."

Aaaaand in creating a brand new version in a different canon, they can't bank off of what Dante was in the classic series. How do they accentuate the character in his own rights, in his own element, if you're demanding that the character somehow constantly throwback to who he is not? They accentuated the core feature of the game - the action. The characters? The world? You'd have to wait to find out more. If you didn't care, well...that's not really their fault, everyone has their own tastes. Lots of people didn't like classic DMC, I met a lot of them in my time trying to sell it.

DmC's marketing was more misguided than malicious. Its more that they underestimated how big of deal this was. One poster on the NT forums explained it as "fans were being too sensitive but capcom/nt weren't sensitive enough".

Still the fact that DmC was a noncanon spinoff with an "unappealing" premise made it a lost cause.

The problem ends up that Ninja Theory was just doing a job, and they took far too much flak for it. I'd say they could have tried to assure people more, but like...what more could they have done that they didn't already do? We had countless interviews where they explained pretty much the same thing because there's only so much a dev can talk about at any given point; Gregaman played the hell outta DmC at every possible moment to show off how fun it was, and how much like any other DMC it was. How sensitive are they to be if they're trying to focus on this new product, instead of constantly reminding people of the past work? They didn't go out of their way to **** on the classic series or anything, but they have every right, and really, every responsibility, to push DmC. There's only so much they can do when they've got fans bawling at their feet about the classic series. What are they s'posed to do? Cancel the game halfway through its development, burn up millions of dollars in dev time? Their options are...kinda limited.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
We’re not going to turn this into a war now, are we boys?

We can’t change what happened. Some people want to say it was the marketing, Tameem, the drastic changes, THE DAMN HAIR (that’s black, NOT brown) thanks @TWOxACROSS for letting me know that after I was about 9 years late.

So whatever it was, does it reallllllllly matter? It happened years and years ago now. We’re discussing how Itsuno wanted to do a DmC 2. Shouldn’t we perhaps discuss that instead? Maybe talk about how we think that could’ve or still could turn out? Maybe discuss things that we would’ve liked to of seen done in 2, or carried over from DmC, or anything other than why or what caused DmC to be recieved the way it was?
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
Honestly I always saw Capcom as the bigger problem in this whole debacle. But learning that Itsuno legitimately loved it and wanted a sequel changed my perception of them.

As for a potential sequel I'd be ok with a crossover between the two version. It be a fun romp either as a stand-alone dlc or a full-fledged game.

I keep thinking about V using a sniper rifle so I'd just give him DmC Vergil's outfit as an unlockable skin. Kat and Phineas should pop up in a future game in slightly different roles. The Drekavac should pop up as Vergil's mentor when he was younger. Dante should joke that you shouldn't knock living in a trailer, it's better than you think.

Just nods here and there.
 

Carlos

A powerful demon
Xen-Omni 2020
We’re not going to turn this into a war now, are we boys?
I honestly gave up after this comment...
They also...didn't "wait"? Not sure where you got that idea. They unveiled the trailer and then had Tameem Antoniades and Alex Jones (not that one) taking interviews to further inform on the direction the installment was taking. They told everyone that it wasn't in the main canon, it was telling a different origin of the character, in a city out to get you, in a world where demons infest authority. They told us that Dante was a scrapper, hence why there was key art of him all roughed up. They told us he loves to fight, and smokes in victory like a post-coital ritual. They told us Capcom came to them to develop a version of DMC that was like a western movie, with a focus on telling a story as much as the action.
It was clear that he wasn't going to chill. We're discussing why the game failed, and he thinks I'm at war with him over this, and tries to play dumb with me. Hence why I patronized him in the first place... *rolleyes*

But, I'm just gonna bow out and chill. Thanks for trying to keep the peace, @LordOfDarkness! :D
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Honestly I always saw Capcom as the bigger problem in this whole debacle. But learning that Itsuno legitimately loved it and wanted a sequel changed my perception of them..

From what I have heard, Inafune was...a huge problem, at least when it came to that push to westernize everything. Itsuno though, he's such a wholesome dude, I'm glad he doesn't regret anything that he's made. Now, please, gimme a co-op Dragon's Dogma! Or release Dragon's Dogma Online in the West, what I played of it was super fun!

I honestly gave up after this comment...

It was clear that he wasn't going to chill. We're discussing why the game failed, and he thinks I'm at war with him over this, and tries to play dumb with me. Hence why I patronized him in the first place... *rolleyes*

But, I'm just gonna bow out and chill. Thanks for trying to keep the peace, @LordOfDarkness! :D

But man, look at all of these different interviews that they did when the trailer dropped. And that's just what I could find with some light googling and looking at the sources on the game's wikipedia page, there's tons of others buried out there under eight years of news and dumb reaction videos; some of these sites (sadly) don't even exist anymore - feel like a bit of a necromancer using the wayback machine for 1up. Yet, hey, why do I remember all of this information from the moment the game was announced...? They only dropped the trailer with no information, according to you.

And if you were really "gonna bow out and chill," you would have left it alone when @LordOfDarkness asked us to, like I was content to, and have done in the past. Yet nope, you felt like you had to get the last word in, and poke the bear, before claiming you were done. Your quoting of me exemplifies that greatly. Don't be that guy. Me though? I just stoop to others' levels sometimes, it's only fair to even the field.

Anyway, that's not on topic, right? i'M gOnNA bOW OuT aNd CHiLl~

============================================================================================

As much as I'd love a DmC2, there seems to be a kink in that Itsuno wouldn't want to do it without Ninja Theory, and they're a Microsoft Studio now. I'm not sure Microsoft would be too keen on one of their now-proprietary developers making a multiplatform game, and I'm not sure Capcom would be down for making a DMC game that was exclusive to Xbox and PC. But who knows! Stranger things have happened.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
@Carlos @TWOxACROSS - I am glad that you both could resolve things.

Anyway, let’s hear no more about it now for the sake of the thread.

Thanks for being understanding :)
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Definitely interested to see what they can do with the backing of such a massive company like Microsoft. I loved Hellblade, and they did so much with so little, given the "indie AAA" thing they were working under.
 

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
From what I have heard, Inafune was...a huge problem, at least when it came to that push to westernize everything. Itsuno though, he's such a wholesome dude, I'm glad he doesn't regret anything that he's made. Now, please, gimme a co-op Dragon's Dogma! Or release Dragon's Dogma Online in the West, what I played of it was super fun!



But man, look at all of these different interviews that they did when the trailer dropped. And that's just what I could find with some light googling and looking at the sources on the game's wikipedia page, there's tons of others buried out there under eight years of news and dumb reaction videos; some of these sites (sadly) don't even exist anymore - feel like a bit of a necromancer using the wayback machine for 1up. Yet, hey, why do I remember all of this information from the moment the game was announced...? They only dropped the trailer with no information, according to you.

And if you were really "gonna bow out and chill," you would have left it alone when @LordOfDarkness asked us to, like I was content to, and have done in the past. Yet nope, you felt like you had to get the last word in, and poke the bear, before claiming you were done. Your quoting of me exemplifies that greatly. Don't be that guy. Me though? I just stoop to others' levels sometimes, it's only fair to even the field.

Anyway, that's not on topic, right? i'M gOnNA bOW OuT aNd CHiLl~

============================================================================================

As much as I'd love a DmC2, there seems to be a kink in that Itsuno wouldn't want to do it without Ninja Theory, and they're a Microsoft Studio now. I'm not sure Microsoft would be too keen on one of their now-proprietary developers making a multiplatform game, and I'm not sure Capcom would be down for making a DMC game that was exclusive to Xbox and PC. But who knows! Stranger things have happened.

Well considering Capcom is through with their westernization phase. It did more harm than good for them whether you like DmC or not outside maybe that they really only got Strider 2014 out of doing so. So to upper management keeping things in house and in Japan would prove more beneficial to them in the long run which led to Capcom Vancouver being shut down. Thus the mindset that led to DmC being made is no longer present in Capcom outside Itsuno but he cares more about its style and aesthetics which are things he can interject (or has already) into DMC5 and other DMC games and since there are wording of this being Itsuno's last DMC game and the really tough situation with Microsoft unless the new guy after him loves DmC as much if not more than Itsuno but if DMC5 meets or surpasses what ever sales expectations Capcom has set for it (which is likely considering the all buzz and attention the game is getting just the song Devil Trigger pulls 13 million views on Youtube off just 1 video and was the top rock song on the UK music charts for a while) upper management probably wont see a need for DmC anymore. DMC5 would've succeeded in the goal that DmC was made for which was to draw in a bigger (Western) audience.

Plus I doubt upper management would want to work with Microsoft to make a game on platforms with far less market reach than the PS4 and subseries most avid fans are mixed on (unless they make DmC more like DMC). A DMC5 on PC and Xbox One would be more successful because more hardcore DMC players play on PC the same hardcore players who sidelined DmC.

I guess NT will incorporate aspects/ideas for DmC into another game down the road. A spiritual successor, intentional or not is probably the next best option.

Well last reports for NT indicated they are sectioned off into multiple smaller teams making a bunch of games for Microsoft (like some Star Wars VR game). You'll need a pretty big team to make a game on the same caliber of DmC. And its Microsoft look what they did to Rare and even Platinum couldn't work with them (yet they could work with Activision) but hey maybe they can turn around a new leaf in the next gen and NOT have NT produce shovelware.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
I would laugh so hard if they pulled a Bayonetta and had a suspiciously similar character to Nu-Dante named "Donte" amongst their cast. :woot:

Or literally just a female Dante called Donna. And of course, she'd have red hair, because Ninja Theory.

Well considering Capcom is through with their westernization phase. It did more harm than good for them whether you like DmC or not outside maybe that they really only got Strider 2014 out of doing so. So to upper management keeping things in house and in Japan would prove more beneficial to them in the long run which led to Capcom Vancouver being shut down.

Inafune was the driving force behind that westernization push, and yeah, the whole thing was fairly misguided honestly. Regardless of that, I do love some of the games that came out of it as games themselves, even if they're departures from the rest of their series in certain ways (DmC, Lost Planet 3).
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
I guess they could always try to "case west" DmC and try to do another version that took place in the main continuity.

That might have diminishing returns. Best just do a few nods here and there.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
I find it funny that so many people online, mostly in 4chan, who adore 5 can't take this concept well. The idea that Itsuno loves DmC, that he was proud of the work he did in that game, enrages them. To them, the reboot is all that is bad and ugly and 5 is sacrosanct, so for the director of 5 to have any positive views on, specially to say that he loved it, is one of those does not compute scenarios that would cause a computer to crash and fail, which is what happens, every time, and it is ugly. Those wankers get vicious.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
I find it funny that so many people online, mostly in 4chan, who adore 5 can't take this concept well. The idea that Itsuno loves DmC, that he was proud of the work he did in that game, enrages them. To them, the reboot is all that is bad and ugly and 5 is sacrosanct, so for the director of 5 to have any positive views on, specially to say that he loved it, is one of those does not compute scenarios that would cause a computer to crash and fail, which is what happens, every time, and it is ugly. Those wankers get vicious.
It seems some wounds go deep....XD.
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
I like DMC5, but I am curious as to what the timeline in which we got DmC2 looks like.
The world if Itsuno made DmC2:

Rb1a3e1de20dccd2f4b9f6c1ff3b4b83e
 
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