DarkSlayerVergil
Well-known Member
If this does end up happening it'll make me hate DBS potara retcon all the more.
All about Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Super
- Thread starter Sparda's rejected son
- Start date
ROCKMAN X
Keyser Söze
No joke, the last few episodes of Trunks Arc are some of the most baffling logic defying nonsense in the entire franchise. Trunks gets a new form without any explanation, Black Goku is somehow way stronger despite him having the same body as Goku, Goku is somehow strong enough to overpower Merged Zamasu's blast(without the kaioken) and yet Vegito Blue not only struggles against Merge Zamasu but also defuses and uses 100% of his energy on him, what destroys Zamasu's physical body is a Spirit bomb made by TRUNKS, the one guy who NEVER saw a spirit bomb in his entire life. I really want to know who wrote this steaming pile, it obviously isn't toriyama because all of this nonsense doesn't show up in the DBS Manga which is also based on Akira's draft.
DarkSlayerVergil
Well-known Member
Actually I heard that Akira gives the same rough draft to both the animation team and Toyotoro but Akira notes are so vague which explains why the manga and the anime are so vastly different. It also doesn't help that the animation team has diferent people writing for certain episodes unlike the manga that Toyotoro is handling by himself with Akiras super vision allowing for a lot more consistency. Overall I just consider DBS as just a commercial for merchandise.
See, now I wish I'd had read Dragonball Minus. But this is great that speculation is happening about this trailer.
Observations from the trailer, and some ideas to posit:
The incubation pods with the Saiyan babies. There are four in the shot, and one is empty. Possibility: Broly could be a biological experiment or a product of engineering. I'd find it intriguing if this point is happening after the destruction of Planet Vegeta, and Paragus is trying to preserve what's left of the Saiyan race by taking genetic material and cloning it to restore their race again. So, like the Bio-Broly movie except way better and without the gross mutations, also falling in line with Paragus's motive in Movie 8's dub, trying to "re-establish Saiyan dominance" on Earth through Broly and take over Earth and eventually the galaxy/universe.
If it's happening before Planet Vegeta blows up, however, it could be Frieza's doing. Frieza supposedly hates Saiyans yet at some point in the movie, but not necessarily in the same footage he's shown in, he says, "Magnificent! His power level is amazing!" which suggests being proud of something or intrigued by it. If it's about Broly, the reason could be that he had a hand in creating a controllable, super-powerful Saiyan (or a series of them) that he could manipulate better than the natural-born soldiers he had in his employ. That way he wouldn't need to worry about SSJ/SSG, which he knows the legends of. That is, until Broly punches the gold out of him. "What the--!?" indeed.
If it's happening before Planet Vegeta blows up, however, it could be Frieza's doing. Frieza supposedly hates Saiyans yet at some point in the movie, but not necessarily in the same footage he's shown in, he says, "Magnificent! His power level is amazing!" which suggests being proud of something or intrigued by it. If it's about Broly, the reason could be that he had a hand in creating a controllable, super-powerful Saiyan (or a series of them) that he could manipulate better than the natural-born soldiers he had in his employ. That way he wouldn't need to worry about SSJ/SSG, which he knows the legends of. That is, until Broly punches the gold out of him. "What the--!?" indeed.
Out of Vegeta and Goku, Broly attacks Vegeta first. Which is probably to hammer some point about Movie 8 that people missed.
There is a misconception that Broly "irrationally hated Goku" because of something that happened as babies, which arises from poor communication or poor understanding of the material. Yeah, it does seem dumb that King Vegeta literally had that boy stabbed in the gut as a baby and left to die on an exploding planet, but somehow all of Broly's rage manifested at Goku. He should "logically" hate Vegeta.
However, Broly never actually saw Goku's face when the crying was going on. He wouldn't have known that that was Goku and he wouldn't be able to connect a baby voice with that of a grown man because that's impossible. And he heard two unknown Saiyans commenting on "Kakarot" and his low power level as a baby, then Vegeta referring to Goku as "Kakarot" as an adult. If he could remember crying or any words at all, hearing "Kakarot" should have rung a bell and started a flashback of them as babies, but it didn't. It was way after Vegeta called Goku "Kakarot" that Broly stopped and looked at Goku for a minute, their auras were shown, then he kept walking.
Paragus speculation on that scene boiled down to "Broly can sense Kakarot's Ki, and it's awakening his Saiyan instincts, making him want to fight/break the mind control", because Goku is strong and Vegeta ain't sh!t. Broly was said to be "the very model of a Saiyan"/"a true Super Saiyan, a killing machine", so he's like Goku except more bloodthirsty when it comes to wanting a good fight.
Paragus remembers the crying, but only to comment on the twist of fate that Kakarot and Broly were "born on the same day", not "ah yes, Kakarot cried a lot and Broly is still mad about it". And the unknown Saiyans comments were pretty much, "Kakarot is so weak, but somehow he's affecting Broly", which is exactly what happens when they meet as adults, and in the fight near the end of the movie. Goku is weak, but somehow affects Broly, despite Broly being stronger.
And again, Vegeta ain't sh!t. Vegeta literally attacked Broly initially and Broly kept on walking toward Goku, so it's clearly Goku that could put up the fight he wanted and not Vegeta, though Broly does hate Vegeta according to Paragus.
Paragus, to Vegeta: "You could never know how much Broly and I hated your father, the King."
Let's not forget Broly has actual dialogue in Movie 8. Unless specified with character or language markers, the dialogue is said by Broly in the English Dub of Movie 8.
"You, Kakarot! I choose you to be the first of my victims!"
"If you wish not to fight back, I understand. But I'm going to destroy this planet, no matter what!"
Broly: "You think three on one will do any good? Do you believe you have enough power to beat me!?"
Goku: "Broly, you surprised me... so I'd say you won the first round. But now it's time for round two."
[Roshi shows up with the little aliens, b.s. happens]
Broly: "Oh look, the little slaves decide to be brave. I noticed that you love to look up at the sky at your silly old planet. You're probably dreaming you could go back there someday. But it's just a dream!"
[Broly throws an energy ball at the aliens, it changes trajectory and goes out into space, destroying a planet]
Broly: "Oops, did I just blow it up?"
[Broly laughs maniacally]
"Kakarot, how much do you love your son?"
"Why don't you give up?"
"I'm getting stronger. Yes, much stronger!"
"What's the problem, Kakarot? Have you given up? You can say goodbye to your son!"
Broly: "A little green bug has come to get squashed."
Piccolo: "You usually pick on the children first?"
Broly: "I do what needs to be done. What do you expect from a true freak?"
[JP] "You could have gotten off just being killed like good boys, you didn't have to meet with such a painful fate! I'll give you credit for being every bit Saiyans."
[EN] "If you had just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't be dealing with this path now! You're all complete and utter wastes of Saiyan blood!"
[JP]
Goku: "Come on, take it easy!"
Broly: "What does 'easy' mean?"
[After tanking a Kamehameha]
"What was that just now?"
[EN]
Goku: "Hey, whaddya say you give us a handicap?"
Broly: "Is that another word for coffin?"
[After tanking a Kamehameha]
"What was that supposed to be, Goku?"
[JP]
Vegeta: "The Saiyan Prince Vegeta is your opponent now!"
Broly: "Hmph! I'm not going to let you die so easily!"
[Vegeta takes the fastest L ever]
"Finished yet?"
[Vegeta passes out]
"Finished, all right. Scum is, after all, scum."
[EN]
Vegeta: "I am the ruler of all Saiyans, even you, Broly!"
Broly: "Then please try your best to make me kneel before you! Hah!"
[Vegeta takes the fastest L ever]
"What, finished already?"
[Vegeta passes out]
"So it's true, you are all talk and no action!"
[JP]
Broly: "Where are you going?"
Paragus: "I was preparing to seek shelter together with you!"
Broly: "In a single-seat pod?"
[Broly crushes the pod and throws it]
"Did you think it would take the explosion of a planet for me to die?"
[JP] "You scum... are you still alive? [...] Well, come on! This will be the place where you die!"
[EN] "You scum... still got some fight left in you? [...] Poor Goku, still not comfortable with the idea of dying!"
[SP] "It has to be this way, or else it won't be entertaining!"
[EN] "I just love a dramatic ending!"
[SP] "You're resilient."
[EN] "Your persistence is annoying!"
[SP] "You fought well, but it looks like your end has arrived!"
[JP] "You've lasted well, but it looks as though the end has finally come!"
[EN] "You lasted longer than I expected, but your final hour has arrived!"
[SP] "Hahaha! It doesn't matter how much energy you absorb from those insects, you won't defeat me!"
[JP] "Hahaha! No matter how much power you absorb from those small fries, you cannot overcome me!"
[EN] "Hahaha! No matter how much power you absorb from those idiots, it won't be enough to kill me!"
Anyway, he has dialogue, and most of it is him being sadistic, knowing he's a monster, and reveling in it. Nothing suggests he hated Goku for any specific reason aside from just wanting a strong opponent, and Movie 10 is what suggests that Broly remembers Goku crying as a baby. This is also the movie that whittles all of his personality down to "KAKAROT!? KAKAROOOOTTTTTT!" and even then, they had to pair his flashback of the crying with him being punched in the gut and nearly killed by an adult Goku, so if he remembers anything, it's probably that punch to the gut in the same place he was stabbed that hit him so hard he exploded.
Either it's that, or Broly really does have an implausibly impressive memory, in which he does remember PVG exploding, KVG ordering him put to death previously, and all of the things that don't have to do with Goku, but he's severely traumatized and hearing Goku at all set him off.
Anyway, it may not be that King Vegeta did the same thing in this movie than he did in the last, to avoid rehashing that point, but whatever it was he did, if Broly hates our Vegeta over it to attack him first, that's great. And I really appreciate that Vegeta is up for the challenge, instead of shaking in his boots waiting for Broly to come around and snap his neck like he was in Movie 8.
There is a misconception that Broly "irrationally hated Goku" because of something that happened as babies, which arises from poor communication or poor understanding of the material. Yeah, it does seem dumb that King Vegeta literally had that boy stabbed in the gut as a baby and left to die on an exploding planet, but somehow all of Broly's rage manifested at Goku. He should "logically" hate Vegeta.
However, Broly never actually saw Goku's face when the crying was going on. He wouldn't have known that that was Goku and he wouldn't be able to connect a baby voice with that of a grown man because that's impossible. And he heard two unknown Saiyans commenting on "Kakarot" and his low power level as a baby, then Vegeta referring to Goku as "Kakarot" as an adult. If he could remember crying or any words at all, hearing "Kakarot" should have rung a bell and started a flashback of them as babies, but it didn't. It was way after Vegeta called Goku "Kakarot" that Broly stopped and looked at Goku for a minute, their auras were shown, then he kept walking.
Paragus speculation on that scene boiled down to "Broly can sense Kakarot's Ki, and it's awakening his Saiyan instincts, making him want to fight/break the mind control", because Goku is strong and Vegeta ain't sh!t. Broly was said to be "the very model of a Saiyan"/"a true Super Saiyan, a killing machine", so he's like Goku except more bloodthirsty when it comes to wanting a good fight.
Paragus remembers the crying, but only to comment on the twist of fate that Kakarot and Broly were "born on the same day", not "ah yes, Kakarot cried a lot and Broly is still mad about it". And the unknown Saiyans comments were pretty much, "Kakarot is so weak, but somehow he's affecting Broly", which is exactly what happens when they meet as adults, and in the fight near the end of the movie. Goku is weak, but somehow affects Broly, despite Broly being stronger.
And again, Vegeta ain't sh!t. Vegeta literally attacked Broly initially and Broly kept on walking toward Goku, so it's clearly Goku that could put up the fight he wanted and not Vegeta, though Broly does hate Vegeta according to Paragus.
Paragus, to Vegeta: "You could never know how much Broly and I hated your father, the King."
Let's not forget Broly has actual dialogue in Movie 8. Unless specified with character or language markers, the dialogue is said by Broly in the English Dub of Movie 8.
"You, Kakarot! I choose you to be the first of my victims!"
"If you wish not to fight back, I understand. But I'm going to destroy this planet, no matter what!"
Broly: "You think three on one will do any good? Do you believe you have enough power to beat me!?"
Goku: "Broly, you surprised me... so I'd say you won the first round. But now it's time for round two."
[Roshi shows up with the little aliens, b.s. happens]
Broly: "Oh look, the little slaves decide to be brave. I noticed that you love to look up at the sky at your silly old planet. You're probably dreaming you could go back there someday. But it's just a dream!"
[Broly throws an energy ball at the aliens, it changes trajectory and goes out into space, destroying a planet]
Broly: "Oops, did I just blow it up?"
[Broly laughs maniacally]
"Kakarot, how much do you love your son?"
"Why don't you give up?"
"I'm getting stronger. Yes, much stronger!"
"What's the problem, Kakarot? Have you given up? You can say goodbye to your son!"
Broly: "A little green bug has come to get squashed."
Piccolo: "You usually pick on the children first?"
Broly: "I do what needs to be done. What do you expect from a true freak?"
[JP] "You could have gotten off just being killed like good boys, you didn't have to meet with such a painful fate! I'll give you credit for being every bit Saiyans."
[EN] "If you had just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't be dealing with this path now! You're all complete and utter wastes of Saiyan blood!"
[JP]
Goku: "Come on, take it easy!"
Broly: "What does 'easy' mean?"
[After tanking a Kamehameha]
"What was that just now?"
[EN]
Goku: "Hey, whaddya say you give us a handicap?"
Broly: "Is that another word for coffin?"
[After tanking a Kamehameha]
"What was that supposed to be, Goku?"
[JP]
Vegeta: "The Saiyan Prince Vegeta is your opponent now!"
Broly: "Hmph! I'm not going to let you die so easily!"
[Vegeta takes the fastest L ever]
"Finished yet?"
[Vegeta passes out]
"Finished, all right. Scum is, after all, scum."
[EN]
Vegeta: "I am the ruler of all Saiyans, even you, Broly!"
Broly: "Then please try your best to make me kneel before you! Hah!"
[Vegeta takes the fastest L ever]
"What, finished already?"
[Vegeta passes out]
"So it's true, you are all talk and no action!"
[JP]
Broly: "Where are you going?"
Paragus: "I was preparing to seek shelter together with you!"
Broly: "In a single-seat pod?"
[Broly crushes the pod and throws it]
"Did you think it would take the explosion of a planet for me to die?"
[JP] "You scum... are you still alive? [...] Well, come on! This will be the place where you die!"
[EN] "You scum... still got some fight left in you? [...] Poor Goku, still not comfortable with the idea of dying!"
[SP] "It has to be this way, or else it won't be entertaining!"
[EN] "I just love a dramatic ending!"
[SP] "You're resilient."
[EN] "Your persistence is annoying!"
[SP] "You fought well, but it looks like your end has arrived!"
[JP] "You've lasted well, but it looks as though the end has finally come!"
[EN] "You lasted longer than I expected, but your final hour has arrived!"
[SP] "Hahaha! It doesn't matter how much energy you absorb from those insects, you won't defeat me!"
[JP] "Hahaha! No matter how much power you absorb from those small fries, you cannot overcome me!"
[EN] "Hahaha! No matter how much power you absorb from those idiots, it won't be enough to kill me!"
Anyway, he has dialogue, and most of it is him being sadistic, knowing he's a monster, and reveling in it. Nothing suggests he hated Goku for any specific reason aside from just wanting a strong opponent, and Movie 10 is what suggests that Broly remembers Goku crying as a baby. This is also the movie that whittles all of his personality down to "KAKAROT!? KAKAROOOOTTTTTT!" and even then, they had to pair his flashback of the crying with him being punched in the gut and nearly killed by an adult Goku, so if he remembers anything, it's probably that punch to the gut in the same place he was stabbed that hit him so hard he exploded.
Either it's that, or Broly really does have an implausibly impressive memory, in which he does remember PVG exploding, KVG ordering him put to death previously, and all of the things that don't have to do with Goku, but he's severely traumatized and hearing Goku at all set him off.
Anyway, it may not be that King Vegeta did the same thing in this movie than he did in the last, to avoid rehashing that point, but whatever it was he did, if Broly hates our Vegeta over it to attack him first, that's great. And I really appreciate that Vegeta is up for the challenge, instead of shaking in his boots waiting for Broly to come around and snap his neck like he was in Movie 8.
Paragus is old. How old is the question. It's already established that Saiyans spend a long time in their physical prime until they're 80 years old, at which point they begin to visibly age. In an interview for Episode of Bardock in 2014, Toriyama says of Saiyans that "Their [natural] lifespan in itself is longer than humans’, but since they are a warrior race, many of them die in battle, and their average lifespan isn’t all that long". For Paragus to look old physically, he must be really old, which would open him up for a lot of backstory and known history.
A cloaked Saiyan and a young, lanky Saiyan with short spiky hair and whose design honestly looks like an "older Cabba" or "taller Tarble". The armor they're wearing leaves a time estimate of anytime between when the Saiyan race lived on Sadala, and when they lived on Planet Vegeta (I'm just gonna abbreviate this to 'PVG') around the time it was annexed by Frieza. But it depends a lot on who those characters are.
Breaking it down: The lanky Saiyan doesn't have the shoulder pads on his armor nor the thigh/crotch/hip guards, and it's just the upper part with straps and a bodysuit underneath. That could be Basic Armor (the "old model" Vegeta wore during Namek) or it could be Sadala-style armor (like the one Cabba wears, considered an "old"/"ancient" style by Vegeta) without the purple underpiece. The cloaked Saiyan has the hip guards, but no full pants nor shoulder guards, which more resembles Bardock's Elite Armor.
The cloaked figure could be a younger Paragus. There's mixed opinion on who the lanky Saiyan is, though. If this were a younger Broly, this scene could be Paragus showing a "teenaged" Broly something. If Broly was born around the same time as Goku and Vegeta, he'd be around 50 or so, meaning the visual age difference between Paragus and Broly could check out if Paragus had (or found) him in his own 40s-50s or later than that.
I have a tongue in cheek theory the lanky Saiyan is a younger King Vegeta, before he was crowned King, explaining lack of regalia on his design. Based on Vegeta and Cabba being similar (fighting stance, Galick Gun, Big Bang Attack, etc.), or Tarble and Cabba being similar (hairstyle, build and stature, personality), or the three being otherwise related (Cabba mentions the King of Sadala having similarities to Vegeta). So, this older Saiyan who looks like "Older Cabba"/"Taller Tarble" could actually be "Young King Vegeta" (they had to get their looks from somewhere) before he got buff and grew his hair out.
So, Young King Vegeta and an already-old Paragus discovering something.
For "a movie about the Saiyans", there are things we don't know about Saiyans that they could flesh out here. Such as the source of the infighting that destroyed the original Sadala (or how it was destroyed!) and moved the Saiyans to Planet Plant/Planet Tuffle.
Timeline off hand:
238 Before Age: Yamoshi becomes Super Saiyan (or Super Saiyan God) to fight the "evil of the Saiyans", but his power runs out and he's defeated. This starts the Legend of the Super Saiyan God, recorded in the Namekian Book of Legends. Vegeta tells a different version of the legend, where the "original Super Saiyan" could only hold his power in a Great Ape state, and that his power was so great that it destroyed the planet that he was on as well as himself, though Shenron and the Namekian Book of Legends have the planet this took place on as Sadala and Yamoshi was humanoid when using SSG power, without destroying the planet. For some reason Yamoshi resembles Vegeta with a cape.
Age 550: The Saiyans leave Sadala and land on Planet Plant to live alongside the Tuffles. This is 788 years after Yamoshi became Super Saiyan God, so he apparently didn't destroy the planet he was on.
Age 720: The Saiyan-Tuffle War was started by "King" Vegeta before he was King. The War lasts 10 years. When telling this story, Prince Vegeta states that it started because the Saiyans were "being treated like slaves", though King Kai states that the two races lived separately, rarely interacted with each other, and lived peacefully, and Baby says that the war was unprovoked and that the Tuffles were attacked in cold blood.
Age 730: The Tuffles are eradicated, Vegeta is crowned King, and the planet is named in his honor. This is the only sign of a monarchy among the Saiyans thus far.
Age 731: Frieza arrives and annexes Planet Vegeta. King Vegeta meets a female Saiyan who becomes his Queen.
Age 732: Prince Vegeta is born.
Age 736-737: Depending on the Manga or the Anime, Goku is born.
"Age 737": In Movie 8, King Vegeta shows himself as paranoid of any power greater than his own that's not his son, orders a baby Broly to be executed.
Age 737-739: Depending on the Anime or Manga/DB Minus, Frieza destroys Planet Vegeta. If Anime, Goku is a baby when he's sent off to Earth. If DB Minus, Goku is three years old. At some point beforehand, King Vegeta told Prince Vegeta about the legend of the Super Saiyan and how he was destined to become one. Vegeta repeats the same belief as an adult.
Age 762: Goku becomes a Super Saiyan, making it an exact 1000 years after Yamoshi first became Super Saiyan (or Super Saiyan God).
The important part is that KVG wasn't royalty before he won the Tuffle War, he was characterized as clever/intelligent, opportunistic, and ruthless, and he was also paranoid of power that could oppose him. Yamoshi was the Super Saiyan of legend that last showed up 1000 years ago, yet for some reason resembled Vegeta, and Vegeta also believed he was destined to be the Super Saiyan in the present time because his dad told him so. Vegeta got a different, and less accurate version, of the legend of the Super Saiyan God, and seemingly never heard of the real legend as Shenron told it from the Namekian Book of Legends.
Potentially: King Vegeta screwed over a lot of his kind to get to his position and co-opted the legend for himself, altering their lore to benefit himself and his son. For that he got rid of any opposition from other powerful Saiyans or got rid of Saiyans that knew the truth of their past. Paragus may have been included for two reasons: because of Broly and the legend of the Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan God, or because Paragus is literally so old that he was alive when Sadala was destroyed and knew why that happened and why the Saiyans needed to relocate to Planet Plant. Paragus would hate King Vegeta ever since, and he's using Broly as a tool for revenge and taking his anger out on Prince Vegeta instead.
Breaking it down: The lanky Saiyan doesn't have the shoulder pads on his armor nor the thigh/crotch/hip guards, and it's just the upper part with straps and a bodysuit underneath. That could be Basic Armor (the "old model" Vegeta wore during Namek) or it could be Sadala-style armor (like the one Cabba wears, considered an "old"/"ancient" style by Vegeta) without the purple underpiece. The cloaked Saiyan has the hip guards, but no full pants nor shoulder guards, which more resembles Bardock's Elite Armor.
The cloaked figure could be a younger Paragus. There's mixed opinion on who the lanky Saiyan is, though. If this were a younger Broly, this scene could be Paragus showing a "teenaged" Broly something. If Broly was born around the same time as Goku and Vegeta, he'd be around 50 or so, meaning the visual age difference between Paragus and Broly could check out if Paragus had (or found) him in his own 40s-50s or later than that.
I have a tongue in cheek theory the lanky Saiyan is a younger King Vegeta, before he was crowned King, explaining lack of regalia on his design. Based on Vegeta and Cabba being similar (fighting stance, Galick Gun, Big Bang Attack, etc.), or Tarble and Cabba being similar (hairstyle, build and stature, personality), or the three being otherwise related (Cabba mentions the King of Sadala having similarities to Vegeta). So, this older Saiyan who looks like "Older Cabba"/"Taller Tarble" could actually be "Young King Vegeta" (they had to get their looks from somewhere) before he got buff and grew his hair out.
So, Young King Vegeta and an already-old Paragus discovering something.
For "a movie about the Saiyans", there are things we don't know about Saiyans that they could flesh out here. Such as the source of the infighting that destroyed the original Sadala (or how it was destroyed!) and moved the Saiyans to Planet Plant/Planet Tuffle.
Timeline off hand:
238 Before Age: Yamoshi becomes Super Saiyan (or Super Saiyan God) to fight the "evil of the Saiyans", but his power runs out and he's defeated. This starts the Legend of the Super Saiyan God, recorded in the Namekian Book of Legends. Vegeta tells a different version of the legend, where the "original Super Saiyan" could only hold his power in a Great Ape state, and that his power was so great that it destroyed the planet that he was on as well as himself, though Shenron and the Namekian Book of Legends have the planet this took place on as Sadala and Yamoshi was humanoid when using SSG power, without destroying the planet. For some reason Yamoshi resembles Vegeta with a cape.
Age 550: The Saiyans leave Sadala and land on Planet Plant to live alongside the Tuffles. This is 788 years after Yamoshi became Super Saiyan God, so he apparently didn't destroy the planet he was on.
Age 720: The Saiyan-Tuffle War was started by "King" Vegeta before he was King. The War lasts 10 years. When telling this story, Prince Vegeta states that it started because the Saiyans were "being treated like slaves", though King Kai states that the two races lived separately, rarely interacted with each other, and lived peacefully, and Baby says that the war was unprovoked and that the Tuffles were attacked in cold blood.
Age 730: The Tuffles are eradicated, Vegeta is crowned King, and the planet is named in his honor. This is the only sign of a monarchy among the Saiyans thus far.
Age 731: Frieza arrives and annexes Planet Vegeta. King Vegeta meets a female Saiyan who becomes his Queen.
Age 732: Prince Vegeta is born.
Age 736-737: Depending on the Manga or the Anime, Goku is born.
"Age 737": In Movie 8, King Vegeta shows himself as paranoid of any power greater than his own that's not his son, orders a baby Broly to be executed.
Age 737-739: Depending on the Anime or Manga/DB Minus, Frieza destroys Planet Vegeta. If Anime, Goku is a baby when he's sent off to Earth. If DB Minus, Goku is three years old. At some point beforehand, King Vegeta told Prince Vegeta about the legend of the Super Saiyan and how he was destined to become one. Vegeta repeats the same belief as an adult.
Age 762: Goku becomes a Super Saiyan, making it an exact 1000 years after Yamoshi first became Super Saiyan (or Super Saiyan God).
The important part is that KVG wasn't royalty before he won the Tuffle War, he was characterized as clever/intelligent, opportunistic, and ruthless, and he was also paranoid of power that could oppose him. Yamoshi was the Super Saiyan of legend that last showed up 1000 years ago, yet for some reason resembled Vegeta, and Vegeta also believed he was destined to be the Super Saiyan in the present time because his dad told him so. Vegeta got a different, and less accurate version, of the legend of the Super Saiyan God, and seemingly never heard of the real legend as Shenron told it from the Namekian Book of Legends.
Potentially: King Vegeta screwed over a lot of his kind to get to his position and co-opted the legend for himself, altering their lore to benefit himself and his son. For that he got rid of any opposition from other powerful Saiyans or got rid of Saiyans that knew the truth of their past. Paragus may have been included for two reasons: because of Broly and the legend of the Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan God, or because Paragus is literally so old that he was alive when Sadala was destroyed and knew why that happened and why the Saiyans needed to relocate to Planet Plant. Paragus would hate King Vegeta ever since, and he's using Broly as a tool for revenge and taking his anger out on Prince Vegeta instead.
"This must be the guy". Goku and Vegeta were told about Broly (by who? Whis? Beerus? Frieza? Jaco?), but Vegeta also has no idea who Broly is. Vegeta still knows the concept of "Legendary Super Saiyan" but is not connecting it to Broly like he did in Movie 8. On the same token, Vegeta knew enough about the "true form of a Saiyan" (paraphrased) that he could tell Goku about it when they saw Kale's "Mastered Berserker"/SSJ2 form, and Kale is based off of Broly, so if he sees Broly take that form then he ought to recall Kale and bring that back.
"He's... getting stronger!" Clever editing. Goku is shocked and thinking that, but his shirt is on. The next shot shows Broly powering up in his LSSJ form with the green aura, and Goku's been beaten up bad enough for his shirt to come off. He couldn't have lost his shirt and gotten beat in a split second while Broly is doing nothing but floating up/exuding energy, so Goku is making his realization that Broly's power is skyrocketing before Broly powers up. That paired with the footage of Blue Goku about to clash with a not-SSJ Broly? Super Saiyan Blue is outclassed, majorly outclassed.
Lain
Earthbound Immortal
Indeed, I must admit that I bought the Jaco manga solely for the Minus special at the end, but Jaco ended up being a fantastic short story anyways so it was all good.
But as to your speculation about the incubator, it's actually the case that all Saiyan children are kept in incubators while their parents are off fighting, Goku himself had been in an incubator for almost three years after his birth as seen in Minus so I don't necessarily think that Broly being in one is due to genetic tinkering. But who knows...
Huh, they were featured in Minus too. Good to know! I'm sure there's another context for Frieza's line, then.
Also, if anyone has been following Herms on Twitter, he's mentioned the official Dragonball News site, @ dragonball.news and an interview with DBS producer Norihiro Hayashida.
"The DB Official Site has an interview with DBS movie producer Norihiro Hayashida. He reaffirms (DB Room chief) Akio Iyoku’s previous statement that the film will be a “grand space opera”: “I wondered if DB could pull that off, but it all clicked once I read the storyline.” "
That and the constant communication described between Toriyama and Akio Iyoku is giving me more hope for this plot. They're "leaving enough time for Toriyama to check over everything", and "Toriyama confirmed things whenever the DB Room staff couldn’t decide something on their own, with Akio Iyoku doing a lot of back-and-forth with Toriyama". Also, "Toriyama has provided far more design images for this movie than any previous one."
Additional good news on this is "They've been very conscious of the overseas market during the production and marketing of this film, and want to get it dubbed and shown in theaters overseas as soon as possible to cut down on piracy."
"With that in mind, the rough cut of the film will be used to get dubs finished quickly. At the same time, they're trying to leave plenty of time to do corrections between the rough cut and final cut of the film (a luxury a lot of films these days don't have)."
Also, if anyone has been following Herms on Twitter, he's mentioned the official Dragonball News site, @ dragonball.news and an interview with DBS producer Norihiro Hayashida.
"The DB Official Site has an interview with DBS movie producer Norihiro Hayashida. He reaffirms (DB Room chief) Akio Iyoku’s previous statement that the film will be a “grand space opera”: “I wondered if DB could pull that off, but it all clicked once I read the storyline.” "
That and the constant communication described between Toriyama and Akio Iyoku is giving me more hope for this plot. They're "leaving enough time for Toriyama to check over everything", and "Toriyama confirmed things whenever the DB Room staff couldn’t decide something on their own, with Akio Iyoku doing a lot of back-and-forth with Toriyama". Also, "Toriyama has provided far more design images for this movie than any previous one."
Additional good news on this is "They've been very conscious of the overseas market during the production and marketing of this film, and want to get it dubbed and shown in theaters overseas as soon as possible to cut down on piracy."
"With that in mind, the rough cut of the film will be used to get dubs finished quickly. At the same time, they're trying to leave plenty of time to do corrections between the rough cut and final cut of the film (a luxury a lot of films these days don't have)."
Sparda's rejected son
For Edenoi!
So DBS Manga chapter 39 comes out and as always the fandom implodes. "How can Gohan be equal to Kelfa?" "Roshi stood up to Jiren." And etc. Honestly if it isn't "dub vs sub" wars, the "Orange DVD Bricks are trash" or "death to Yamamuro and his art style" it is "power scaling" wars!
The fandom can be so draining at times that it is toxic and it drives me bonkers. I for one am curious to see how Broly is defeated. Does he turn good or Ultra Instinct saves the day or perhaps something off the wall like laser beams to the chest. This movie needs to come out already and I need my poorly implemented Super version Broly in DBXV2 stat!
The fandom can be so draining at times that it is toxic and it drives me bonkers. I for one am curious to see how Broly is defeated. Does he turn good or Ultra Instinct saves the day or perhaps something off the wall like laser beams to the chest. This movie needs to come out already and I need my poorly implemented Super version Broly in DBXV2 stat!
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
Chapter 39 was nuts , Gohan matching kefla was bad enough but roshi's experience allowing him to keep up with jiren was ludicrous.
Side note though , can't wait for the tournament of power in the English dub
And the movie
Side note though , can't wait for the tournament of power in the English dub
And the movie
The problem with Roshi matching Jiren was twofold:
1. Even if Jiren was holding back, he could hold back on his strength while still being faster than Roshi can even conceptualize. That shouldn't even be a problem for him. He's way stronger than Roshi to the point he shouldn't need to block any of Roshi's hits as opposed to tanking them and letting Roshi break his own fists. He also can't be so slow that he can allow himself to actually be frustrated that Roshi can dodge. Roshi couldn't even see Frost moving nor Base Goku moving in this tournament. That was all in-panel done by Toyotaro. Now all the sudden, it doesn't matter anymore.
We've seen powerful characters throughout DBZ one-shot characters way weaker than them without killing them, while also doing it nigh-instantly. Cell kicked Krillin through a mountain and slapped Mr. Satan into another mountain. Kid Trunks punched Mr. Satan and that dude still ain't dead yet. Goku neck-chopped Chi-Chi into a tree once and she isn't dead. Beerus beat up all the Z-fighters during Bulma's party. So it doesn't make any sense that Jiren, who is more powerful than his own God of Destruction and undeniably faster than Roshi, who took out an intergalactic criminal non-lethally via flying into them at a high-speed from space Superman-style, who's fodderized opponents in a single hit throughout this tournament and took out Hit with an uppercut, who beat time itself, is somehow both too slow and too incompetent to just.......... beat Roshi instantly like he did every single other opponent he was shown doing it to. Why is Roshi able to dodge Jiren at all when Jiren could just make himself go faster literally any time he wanted to? Roshi didn't need to fight Jiren for this. He could have shown his instinctive dodging technique against Kahseral, or even Dyspo.
2. Toyotaro somehow forgets that Goku is still the same "fighting genius" that resolved to perfect the first Super Saiyan form instead of jumping to Ultra Super Saiyan whatever forms because he realized their limitations and didn't want to sacrifice speed for power. He mastered the first form to conserve stamina and maximize its output. He not only learned that lesson, he taught the lesson to others. Here, Goku turns into an absolute meathead that tries to copy Kale, screaming about needing "more power!!!!!" and not caring about destroying his own body to do it, when he just saw Kale try that and fail, and he realized that himself back in DBZ when training for the Cell Games. So basically he regressed into the same thing Future Trunks did against Perfect Cell, somehow. He's smarter than that. And we also saw Goku almost ring-out Jiren in the anime using some well-placed ki mines, knowledge of his terrain, and a Kienzan. People that kept up with anime!DBS know what a reasonably smart Goku should act and sound like. So he's not a bad fighter or strategist when someone actually cares enough to write him properly.
Roshi himself decided he couldn't train Goku any more and told him to go off on his own and train under others who he could learn from. Goku can't all of a sudden be a bad student now of all times. And what was the point of him training with Whis this whole time if his answer to being beaten is "destroy my own body with quasi-Kaioken", when Whis was trying to teach him exactly the part about Ultra Instinct? Yeah, we've seen Goku use Kaioken to increase his power and speed at the cost of his own body before, but very famously with Hit and the SSB+KK combination, he did it to get an edge on an opponent he figured out after watching for a few seconds. Goku breaking through the improved Timeskip and being able to predict Hit's attacks by the way he moved was genius. What was this in comparison? Him needing to watch Roshi dodge moves instinctively to learn how to do the same, when Beerus was doing the same thing to 12 Gods at once in the tournament that happened just before this one? If all he needed to do was watch someone dodge and think on stuff a bit, he should've been learned Ultra Instinct.
This chapter achieves a level of OOC for Goku that even people who hated Dragonball GT and the Funimation dubs noticed.
Actually let me add a third point:
3. Right afterward, Jiren takes a complete (verbal) dump on Goku's fighting skill. At least in the anime he recognized Goku as a warrior, even if a weak one, and acknowledged him as a threat to Toppo. Here in the manga, he doubts Goku can even fight at all. Goku's a total scrub to him. Yikes on bikes!
Now................................
Don't get me started on Gohan matching Kefla when:
LSSJ Kale knocked out four universes in under ten panels of one chapter on her own, one-shotted Anilaza, caught Golden Frieza off guard and forced Goku to go Blue to defend himself from her, as well as almost knocked out Vegeta and Toppo in one hit. LSSJ Kale was so powerful that her own power was kicking her ass. Then LSSJ Kale fuses with Caulifla. Vados says that Kefla is Kale's LSSJ power, that excess energy that Kale has, but with Caulifla's intelligence and control, making her the ultimate warrior unmatched in the battlefield. The Pride Troopers that ganged up on Kale got fodderized by the fusion and even Kahseral said Kefla was leagues above regular Kale. Yet Kefla somehow loses to..... Gohan.
A Gohan who wasn't even in his Ultimate form when he beat her.
A Gohan who still isn't on Goku's level.
A Gohan who is weaker than his anime counterpart by scaling alone (Anime BoG arc has Goku absorbing the God Ki into his base form and everyone else is scaled in relation to that, Manga BoG arc does not have Goku absorbing the Ki, and every other character scales accordingly).
A Gohan who obviously probably cannot one-shot Anilaza by himself.
A Gohan who only started training after the defeat of Merged Zamazu, meanwhile Anime Gohan was already training since just after Frieza was defeated, and during the Goku Black arc he said his goodbye to Trunks directly after a training session with Piccolo was already underway. Meaning he trained for less time in the manga than the anime along with being weaker in the manga than the anime.
A Gohan who Beerus doesn't even bother to learn the name of, calling him "Spawn of Son Goku".
This Gohan.
This Gohan gets eliminated in a battle that's mostly offscreen after a tease and maybe a few punches and some dialogue, whereas the anime had him saving Piccolo the same way Piccolo saved him, and making a big deal out of their mentor-student relationship. Anime Gohan contributed to some universes being eliminated, reflected on what he was fighting for in terms of his family being safe, and went out by a double-KO against the #3 fighter in Universe 11, the universe with the most powerful opponents.
Manga Gohan's proof of power is...... uhhhhhhhhhhhh.... despite his apparent super duper power, that could have made him an asset to universe 7, he gets knocked out in ONE FIGHT against a heavily-nerfed Potara fusion from the third-most powerful universe, showing no growth as a character in terms of his relationship to Piccolo because Piccolo was already knocked out by a trash-tier bug early on in the tourney. The only "decent" thing about Manga Gohan is the change in his personality to his Buu Saga arrogance, as if anyone actually liked that about him since he absolutely acted like a dumbass in the Buu Saga. And that "I chose to evolve as a human" nonsense, like he didn't get to where he is by winning the genetic lottery in terms of his Saiyan genes mixing perfectly with his human ones to account for all his power boosts. Otherwise, he was a complete idiot. He could have just, you know, LET Kefla fight Jiren, let her lose utterly to Jiren, and then focused his efforts on Dyspo and other opponents.
And to top this off, Kefla is defeated after giving some speech that amounts to verbal fellatio towards U7's fighters, where she calls herself a loser and then agrees to basically commit suicide, which is completely unbecoming of a Saiyan and OOC to either Kefla or either of the Saiyans that comprised her. She accepted defeat with some straight-up fanfiction-tier writing that didn't need to be written at all. Meanwhile the anime showed Kefla's incredulity in the face of potential defeat and her response was balls-to-the-wall attacks while she ramped up her power, determined to "outsmart" UI dodges with her spur-of-the-moment omnidirectional Ki beams that actually tagged Goku at one point or two, so well that he had to outthink his limitations in order to beat her. Manga Kefla does no Ki attacks. Just punches and then says it was "fate"/"destiny" that she lost to some dude.
Then Champa doesn't have a touching moment with Beerus, instead going into a spiel about how "this doesn't change anything!" as if he already knows he's getting wished back in the end and they can continue their rivalry later.
F**k that.
At least when the anime ignored "power scaling" and "power levels" and all that (doing the same "power levels don't matter" thing that people are now praising the manga for doing?????), we got good character moments. We got Roshi outsmarting demons with Mafuba, delivering a speech to both of his students and not just Goku, and going out like an OG on his own terms, eliminating himself instead of becoming a liability for his team. We got Piccolo realizing the resolve of all the Namekians in a counterpart universe and reinforcing his own bond with Nail and Kami. We got 18 showing she cared about Krillin and doing the "sappy human stuff" for 17's sake. Even Tien had a better showing in the anime than he did in the manga, and he absolutely sucked in the anime.
I can't even with this.
1. Even if Jiren was holding back, he could hold back on his strength while still being faster than Roshi can even conceptualize. That shouldn't even be a problem for him. He's way stronger than Roshi to the point he shouldn't need to block any of Roshi's hits as opposed to tanking them and letting Roshi break his own fists. He also can't be so slow that he can allow himself to actually be frustrated that Roshi can dodge. Roshi couldn't even see Frost moving nor Base Goku moving in this tournament. That was all in-panel done by Toyotaro. Now all the sudden, it doesn't matter anymore.
We've seen powerful characters throughout DBZ one-shot characters way weaker than them without killing them, while also doing it nigh-instantly. Cell kicked Krillin through a mountain and slapped Mr. Satan into another mountain. Kid Trunks punched Mr. Satan and that dude still ain't dead yet. Goku neck-chopped Chi-Chi into a tree once and she isn't dead. Beerus beat up all the Z-fighters during Bulma's party. So it doesn't make any sense that Jiren, who is more powerful than his own God of Destruction and undeniably faster than Roshi, who took out an intergalactic criminal non-lethally via flying into them at a high-speed from space Superman-style, who's fodderized opponents in a single hit throughout this tournament and took out Hit with an uppercut, who beat time itself, is somehow both too slow and too incompetent to just.......... beat Roshi instantly like he did every single other opponent he was shown doing it to. Why is Roshi able to dodge Jiren at all when Jiren could just make himself go faster literally any time he wanted to? Roshi didn't need to fight Jiren for this. He could have shown his instinctive dodging technique against Kahseral, or even Dyspo.
2. Toyotaro somehow forgets that Goku is still the same "fighting genius" that resolved to perfect the first Super Saiyan form instead of jumping to Ultra Super Saiyan whatever forms because he realized their limitations and didn't want to sacrifice speed for power. He mastered the first form to conserve stamina and maximize its output. He not only learned that lesson, he taught the lesson to others. Here, Goku turns into an absolute meathead that tries to copy Kale, screaming about needing "more power!!!!!" and not caring about destroying his own body to do it, when he just saw Kale try that and fail, and he realized that himself back in DBZ when training for the Cell Games. So basically he regressed into the same thing Future Trunks did against Perfect Cell, somehow. He's smarter than that. And we also saw Goku almost ring-out Jiren in the anime using some well-placed ki mines, knowledge of his terrain, and a Kienzan. People that kept up with anime!DBS know what a reasonably smart Goku should act and sound like. So he's not a bad fighter or strategist when someone actually cares enough to write him properly.
Roshi himself decided he couldn't train Goku any more and told him to go off on his own and train under others who he could learn from. Goku can't all of a sudden be a bad student now of all times. And what was the point of him training with Whis this whole time if his answer to being beaten is "destroy my own body with quasi-Kaioken", when Whis was trying to teach him exactly the part about Ultra Instinct? Yeah, we've seen Goku use Kaioken to increase his power and speed at the cost of his own body before, but very famously with Hit and the SSB+KK combination, he did it to get an edge on an opponent he figured out after watching for a few seconds. Goku breaking through the improved Timeskip and being able to predict Hit's attacks by the way he moved was genius. What was this in comparison? Him needing to watch Roshi dodge moves instinctively to learn how to do the same, when Beerus was doing the same thing to 12 Gods at once in the tournament that happened just before this one? If all he needed to do was watch someone dodge and think on stuff a bit, he should've been learned Ultra Instinct.
This chapter achieves a level of OOC for Goku that even people who hated Dragonball GT and the Funimation dubs noticed.
Actually let me add a third point:
3. Right afterward, Jiren takes a complete (verbal) dump on Goku's fighting skill. At least in the anime he recognized Goku as a warrior, even if a weak one, and acknowledged him as a threat to Toppo. Here in the manga, he doubts Goku can even fight at all. Goku's a total scrub to him. Yikes on bikes!
Now................................
Don't get me started on Gohan matching Kefla when:
LSSJ Kale knocked out four universes in under ten panels of one chapter on her own, one-shotted Anilaza, caught Golden Frieza off guard and forced Goku to go Blue to defend himself from her, as well as almost knocked out Vegeta and Toppo in one hit. LSSJ Kale was so powerful that her own power was kicking her ass. Then LSSJ Kale fuses with Caulifla. Vados says that Kefla is Kale's LSSJ power, that excess energy that Kale has, but with Caulifla's intelligence and control, making her the ultimate warrior unmatched in the battlefield. The Pride Troopers that ganged up on Kale got fodderized by the fusion and even Kahseral said Kefla was leagues above regular Kale. Yet Kefla somehow loses to..... Gohan.
A Gohan who wasn't even in his Ultimate form when he beat her.
A Gohan who still isn't on Goku's level.
A Gohan who is weaker than his anime counterpart by scaling alone (Anime BoG arc has Goku absorbing the God Ki into his base form and everyone else is scaled in relation to that, Manga BoG arc does not have Goku absorbing the Ki, and every other character scales accordingly).
A Gohan who obviously probably cannot one-shot Anilaza by himself.
A Gohan who only started training after the defeat of Merged Zamazu, meanwhile Anime Gohan was already training since just after Frieza was defeated, and during the Goku Black arc he said his goodbye to Trunks directly after a training session with Piccolo was already underway. Meaning he trained for less time in the manga than the anime along with being weaker in the manga than the anime.
A Gohan who Beerus doesn't even bother to learn the name of, calling him "Spawn of Son Goku".
This Gohan.
This Gohan gets eliminated in a battle that's mostly offscreen after a tease and maybe a few punches and some dialogue, whereas the anime had him saving Piccolo the same way Piccolo saved him, and making a big deal out of their mentor-student relationship. Anime Gohan contributed to some universes being eliminated, reflected on what he was fighting for in terms of his family being safe, and went out by a double-KO against the #3 fighter in Universe 11, the universe with the most powerful opponents.
Manga Gohan's proof of power is...... uhhhhhhhhhhhh.... despite his apparent super duper power, that could have made him an asset to universe 7, he gets knocked out in ONE FIGHT against a heavily-nerfed Potara fusion from the third-most powerful universe, showing no growth as a character in terms of his relationship to Piccolo because Piccolo was already knocked out by a trash-tier bug early on in the tourney. The only "decent" thing about Manga Gohan is the change in his personality to his Buu Saga arrogance, as if anyone actually liked that about him since he absolutely acted like a dumbass in the Buu Saga. And that "I chose to evolve as a human" nonsense, like he didn't get to where he is by winning the genetic lottery in terms of his Saiyan genes mixing perfectly with his human ones to account for all his power boosts. Otherwise, he was a complete idiot. He could have just, you know, LET Kefla fight Jiren, let her lose utterly to Jiren, and then focused his efforts on Dyspo and other opponents.
And to top this off, Kefla is defeated after giving some speech that amounts to verbal fellatio towards U7's fighters, where she calls herself a loser and then agrees to basically commit suicide, which is completely unbecoming of a Saiyan and OOC to either Kefla or either of the Saiyans that comprised her. She accepted defeat with some straight-up fanfiction-tier writing that didn't need to be written at all. Meanwhile the anime showed Kefla's incredulity in the face of potential defeat and her response was balls-to-the-wall attacks while she ramped up her power, determined to "outsmart" UI dodges with her spur-of-the-moment omnidirectional Ki beams that actually tagged Goku at one point or two, so well that he had to outthink his limitations in order to beat her. Manga Kefla does no Ki attacks. Just punches and then says it was "fate"/"destiny" that she lost to some dude.
Then Champa doesn't have a touching moment with Beerus, instead going into a spiel about how "this doesn't change anything!" as if he already knows he's getting wished back in the end and they can continue their rivalry later.
F**k that.
At least when the anime ignored "power scaling" and "power levels" and all that (doing the same "power levels don't matter" thing that people are now praising the manga for doing?????), we got good character moments. We got Roshi outsmarting demons with Mafuba, delivering a speech to both of his students and not just Goku, and going out like an OG on his own terms, eliminating himself instead of becoming a liability for his team. We got Piccolo realizing the resolve of all the Namekians in a counterpart universe and reinforcing his own bond with Nail and Kami. We got 18 showing she cared about Krillin and doing the "sappy human stuff" for 17's sake. Even Tien had a better showing in the anime than he did in the manga, and he absolutely sucked in the anime.
I can't even with this.
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
Some news from Herms on Twitter!
"According to Dragon Room chief Akio Iyoku, the DBS movie will have a "multilayered" story with parts set in both the past and present, and multiple settings. Toriyama's provided the story and over 20 sheets of designs, including characters, machines, and at least one new planet."
Reading about the work they're putting into this film makes me feel pretty good about it, not gonna lie.
"According to Dragon Room chief Akio Iyoku, the DBS movie will have a "multilayered" story with parts set in both the past and present, and multiple settings. Toriyama's provided the story and over 20 sheets of designs, including characters, machines, and at least one new planet."
Reading about the work they're putting into this film makes me feel pretty good about it, not gonna lie.
As soon as I saw your post to this thread, I went to go see it myself.
High points:
GINE!!!! WE'RE GONNA SEE GINE ANIMATED!!!!
WE'RE GONNA GET LORE ON THE SAIYANS!
It looks like Freeza purposely showed up to a newly conquered Planet Vegeta in his second form for the sole purpose of intimidation.
Confirmed: the guy in the cape is still Paragus, leaving us to speculate on who the "Older Cabba"-looking guy beside him was when "discovering" some unknown object on "Planet Vampa".
They say we're gonna cry in the first 20 minutes of this movie. We'll see.
Bardock is seen *with* Freeza in one shot. I haven't read Minus so I don't know what happens to Bardock. Did they go into how he died in that continuity, or are they leaving it for this film? That's one definite way to squeeze a few tears out of the fandom.
Low points:
Where's Raditz?
High points:
GINE!!!! WE'RE GONNA SEE GINE ANIMATED!!!!
WE'RE GONNA GET LORE ON THE SAIYANS!
It looks like Freeza purposely showed up to a newly conquered Planet Vegeta in his second form for the sole purpose of intimidation.
Confirmed: the guy in the cape is still Paragus, leaving us to speculate on who the "Older Cabba"-looking guy beside him was when "discovering" some unknown object on "Planet Vampa".
They say we're gonna cry in the first 20 minutes of this movie. We'll see.
Bardock is seen *with* Freeza in one shot. I haven't read Minus so I don't know what happens to Bardock. Did they go into how he died in that continuity, or are they leaving it for this film? That's one definite way to squeeze a few tears out of the fandom.
Low points:
Where's Raditz?
Lain
Earthbound Immortal
I'm pretty sure that's just Bardock visualising Freeza in his mind when he's suspecting Freeza of backstabbing the Saiyans. Toriyama didn't actually show the confrontation between Bardock and Freeza in Minus, I suspect it was left out since at the time the Bardock movie basically covered it anyway and Toriyama didn't want to waste precious pages of the Minus special re-treading the same ground. We'll probably see an updated version in the movie anyway in order to fill out some of the runtime.
Assuming they'll cover all of Minus, he'll show up when it's explained why he and Vegeta weren't killed by Freeza's planet busting attack.
On a second watch, you're right, he's definitely visualizing Freeza.
Any idea why it looks like Freeza is "nude"? He's not shown with the bio suit he had in DBZ.
Also on second viewing, King Cold is there. I thought that was Second Form Freeza. King Vegeta still looks intimidated so either Freeza or Cold made a show of force sometime before the "bowing" scene.
Any idea why it looks like Freeza is "nude"? He's not shown with the bio suit he had in DBZ.
Also on second viewing, King Cold is there. I thought that was Second Form Freeza. King Vegeta still looks intimidated so either Freeza or Cold made a show of force sometime before the "bowing" scene.
Dark Drakan
Well-known Member
For anyone who hasnt for some reason seen the second Broly trailer here it is (both subbed and dubbed)...
Dragon Ball Super: Broly Movie Trailer #2 - [English Dub]
Dragon Ball Super - Broly Trailer 2 [English Sub]
Dragon Ball Super: Broly Movie Trailer #2 - [English Dub]
Sparda's rejected son
For Edenoi!
The DB forums are riddled with "Because of DB Minus Bardock won't rebel like he did in Bardock FoG. I will cut my wrists now." It's annoying and the real issue is where is Sorbet's cameo?! The Ginyu Force, Zarbon, and Dodoria are appearing (whoo!) But where is Sorbet?
Fret not. The movie will be an hour and forty minutes, so there should be plenty of time for a tiny Sorbet cameo.
The REAL real issue is, where's my boy Raditz at!? And will we see Beerus authorizing the destruction of Planet Vegeta? Actually, more important than those, is will we see baby Tarble?
No lie, people whining about Bardock not being a 1:1 recreation of his FoG incarnation are annoying. Doesn't DB Minus end a month before Frieza destroys the planet? Bardock rebels on the same night the planet is blown up. Theres plenty of time to foster a rebellion or even rebel earlier than normal.
Not like he had an ideal situation going for him anyway. Not only does he break canon by *breathing in space,* he only took down some Freeza grunts and got fodderized by a death ball that wasn't even meant for him personally. His best moment in his special was getting Krillin Owned.
For all we know, Bardock could've used a month to prepare a real rebellion and the footage of the Ginyu Force, Zarbon, et. al, flying into an undescribed location is them trying to quash it.
ToCool74
"Fair" DmC Skeptic
My main gripe with this new Bardock canon and Dragon Ball minus is the fact that before Goku's origin was eerily similar to Clark Kent aka Superman in the first place, now with the whole Goku being a 3 to 4 years old and seeing his loving parents before he is sent off and Badock and Gine being this loving couple who did it because they knew the planet was doomed now just makes it a blatant rip off at this point.