about Dante's character devlopment

[Triggerpigking]

Interesting to see how people think dmc1 dante developed..Honestly I did'nt care much for him that game past his few funny moments.

Perhaps I just can't get past the cringey dialogue, he did'nt feel like he changed much as a character in that game, in fact the only thing i really cared about was his relationship to vergil because of 3 and of course that's a game that came afterwards, hell in the game itself I don't beleive it was ever stated or hinted he had a brother till after he beat angelo for the last time, therefore it made trying to pin down who angelo was and why he was acting so dd up to that point impossible.
________

DmC dante, I get the idea they were going for, and I like some of the execution however i still feel it falls very flat, I think mainly because I did'nt like the dialogue, while he's certainly more trusting by the end of the game he still did'nt feel to me like he'd developed much as a person and his character felt inconsistent.

personally i feel if they'd gone all out druggie with him as his original design kinda hinted at, it'd of been much more interesting, we'd be talking about a dangerous superpowerful guy who lives in a world that can be twisted and ****ed up(dmc's area design was so good) who could also hallucinate due to drugs..that's a scary combination, and his character change could've been more prominent in that case.

In fact it feels like a lot of stuff was probably changed due to the backlash, hyper bit hero did a vid on this and I agree with a lot of what he says(not everything though as i LOVE the they live homages), he's painted as this loner character who was tortured by demons however his character does'nt seem to fit this mold, he's constantly cracking bad jokes and usually in a very spiteful not playful way and most of it feels very forced, why would someone who's such a complete loner be such a show off.
He does'nt act like someone who'd been through years of trauma to me.
In fact the jokes don't even really feel like they fit the whole feeling of the game which was incredibly grungy and dark.

This goes back to my posts in the other thread about why it should'nt of been a dmc game, I think the I.P was actually holding it back from being more unique.

I've also got to agree with Berto I had'nt thought about it much but his change was pretty abrupt early on.



DMC3 is one of my favorite action game stories, hell i'd argue it's the only truly good story in the series(also the only one who had main villains I enjoyed, though mundus from DmC was pretty neat for the most part)
I feel his relationship with vergil was very well crafted, he's very cocky early on in the game it's why he gets beaten by vergil so easily, foxtrot pretty much already gave a better analysis then I could of it.
As he pointed out Dante really does treat the whole thing as a game for most of the story despite all the carnage currently unfolding(seriously i've always been confused HOW THE HELL, did the city return from that XD), he gets his ass beat possibly for the first time in his life when vergil almost kills him on top of the tower and he learns a bit of humility(hell if vergil had took the time to finish him off and not ignored him, the game would be over), the fact that vergil remained so cocky even in their final fight is what lead to his downfall.

Dante keeps his comedic demeanor at the end of the game but he knows when to treat things seriously and when not to, he's a lot more professional while still knowing when to have fun, I actually feel this explains why he acts like he does in dmc1, he's mostly serious in that game with a few jokes but mundus returning is something he needed to be somewhat serious for, plus losing his brother and starting his own buisness probably made him grow up a lot more as well.
There's still some weird disconnections between the two, as said i'm not a fan of the writing in 1 but it does explain his overall personality shift, I feel if we knew how long after 3 it was it'd make more sense as well, most people change over their lifetimes a lot, and there's 4 games in dmc that are spread out over atleast 20 odd years(more due to dmc2).


Dmc4 dante...yeah the main issue imo is simply that he's got no stakes in it, though I don't think he acts out of character, he's simply got no reason to give a ****.

For one he's insanely overpowered, and unlike he is for nero the pope is a freaking joke to him as are all the demons he faces, I can't think of a single scene where he's not toying with his enemies.
Hell the only reason he was there was because he was bored and he just happened to come across a group of loons who had his bro's sword.

This does make for some very entertaining cutscenes but compared to 3? there's no development barring the one scene where he showed any seriousness which was after the fight with Nero at the tower, I don't know if he figured out who Nero was or if he just grew to respect him(perhaps seeing elements of himself and or his brother in him), but he only just then asks for Nero's name and stops joking around for a few minutes.

 

[Director Bison]

I finally got around to playing DmC and I noticed this aswell. I like that Dante changes and I do think that there are some good development scenes but the change in personality was abrupt. I had a "wait a minute" moment when he was just suddenly empathizing with Kat. Don't get me wrong, I welcomed being rid of the jerk at the start but they should have had his jerkiness ease with each encounter with Kat instead of just disappearing the moment she started to open up.

That all said, DmC has more character building moments for Dante than I remember in any previous game, irrespective to writing quality. This really shouldn't be a surprise though, DmC is a character story driven game, often to its detriment, whereas the older games were action driven, with story scenes to support that theme, nor impede it. The cultural differences in storytelling and current trends in storytelling is also very clear.

OK are you some kind of fairy
beacuse you just joined the fourm this is your first post ever
and that is pretty much exactly what i think and what i'm going to say in the video

 

[Foxtrot94]

that is pretty much exactly what i think and what i'm going to say in the video

SPOILEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

 

[Director Bison]

SPOILEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

lol
but yeah this video isn't really for us
i want to make it for the less knowledgeable fans of DMC

i'm sure there a tons of people out there who will play DmC, DMC4SE, and DMC5 (it's coming) and wonder just what happened with DmC
my goal is to explain it in the best way i can

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I think people are mistaken here. I personally never said that DMC 1 Dante has a lot of character development. The point I was trying to make was how DMC 3 Dante develops into DMC 1 Dante. So the whole point is to look at that and not just 3 and 1 on their own. DmC was basically all of that, a DMC 3 Dante developing, maturing into a DMC 1 Dante. That was my point, not that he goes through tons of character development in 1 alone.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

So when can we expect the video to be uploaded, also, will you post a link on here?

 

[Director Bison]

So when can we expect the video to be uploaded, also, will you post a link on here?

as for when i don't know

it may take some time
i have to wright the script still and i'm new to editing
i dont have a time frame
this kind of video is new to me
but i hopeing for maybe a few weeks maybe

 

[AgentRedgrave]

as for when i don't know

it may take some time
i have to wright the script still and i'm new to editing
i dont have a time frame
this kind of video is new to me
but i hopeing for maybe a few weeks maybe

Fair enough, take it from a guy who went to film school, take your time with editing, and don't try to rush it.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

OK are you some kind of fairy
beacuse you just joined the fourm this is your first post ever
and that is pretty much exactly what i think and what i'm going to say in the video

I'm just that good . I'm am an old fan of DMC, having played the first three when they were released, but I was stuck waiting on PC ports, sales, and time to play DMC4 and DmC.

I'll give you my thoughts on differences which I think play a part in why fans may have reacted how they did. It's starts about Dante but I shift focus to other aspects of the game's storytelling and design.

The game started off pretty crass with the closeups of the go-go dancers in the club. Then Dante takes them home to have a drunken threesome, his attitude being very chauvinistic the whole time. Dante was always a self-declared lady's man but he did it with style, which forgave some of the chauvinism. Then we get some crass dialogue interspersed with the pizza scene nod to DMC3's style of craziness. Not only was he unlikable but he was drastically different from the Dante of old, which was disappointing.

So far it looked like it was going to be a crass rendition of DMC3. Those comparisons are the types of things that can really fire up a fan and taint the entire experience. I've been playing the game mostly one or two missions at a time. When I marathon, I find that the lack of time between can bring those negative emotions to bear throughout, especially when I haven't been sucked in to the plot. Buy-in for a plot is super important, it allows the player to forgive a lot of sins. When I don't have it, I'm pretty harsh.

He started improving quickly and mission 2 was a smart choice, digging into Dante's childhood. I was intrigued but when they explained that the Sparta brothers were Nephalim, born of an angel and a demon, I was no longer really immersed in the plot.

I knew that their mother was orginaly a human and this pulled me out of the narrative. I reminded myself that it was a reboot and to keep an open mind and tried to dive back in. Shortly after they talked about how Mundus and Sparta were brothers who fought over the fate of humanity, which made me chuckle at the foreshadowing. These moments are important since they pull fans out of their immersion in the story and can get them thinking critically about the writing. This is rarely a good thing for video game writing, least of all for action games.

Mission 5 marked my realization that Dante was now already a completely different character. I laughed out loud to myself at the ridiculous abruptness of the change but was pleased to have a protagonist I no longer loathed. At this point, I think started mastering how to mentally compartmentalize the settings and games.

I also feel like this was the start of the walking sections of the game. By that I mean the parts of the game where you control Dante but all you're doing is walking to the next section. You can't jump, attack, or explore in a meaningful way. These portions, particularly mission 12 - Under Siege, demonstrates Ninja Theory's focus on storytelling over stylish action.

Mission 15 - The Trade best highlights the Ninja Theory's willingness to break up action game play with action cut-scenes, sometimes at the expense of rhythm, which happens elsewhere in the game. Again, this demonstrates a different approach to game design.

As a side note, that whole mission is like the evolution of quick time events. With the exception of the end and maybe the boat wearhouse scene, it's basically on rails.

 

[Director Bison]

@UncannyGarlic

i couldn't put any of that better myself

considering i got 100% in DmC twice (once on 360 and once on pc)

you explained exactly why i have such negativity to the game

DmC focus on Narrative makes the story less corny
but it makes Repeat playthroughs a nightmare

Mission 2 in DmC is the sole reason i'm always hesitant to replay the game again

because i know that when i play that mission
every single time i'm going to have to hear that Sparda couldn't protect his family

and i'm going to need to wait threw 2 unskipable loading screens while the game goes into Dante's eye so it can load a tutorial i can't skip about the whip that i already know how to use

 

[Foxtrot94]

@Director Bison
So, to summarize my thoughts and make your life easier...

In case you wanna do a comparison:

- DMC1 Dante doesn't develop, however what the game does is reveal his personality traits gradually throughout the various occurances of the game's plot.

- DMC2 Dante doesn't develop either. It's the most static incarnation of him.

- DMC3 Dante develops gradually throughout the game, with the Vergil fights being the manifestations of each gradual change.

- DMC4 Dante doesn't develop, even though I'm not sure how much it matters or if you're even gonna consider it, since it's not a Dante-centric game in the first place.

- DmC Dante develops, however a bit too abruptly after Mission 2, and from there on kind of takes the DMC1 approach, letting us see the traits of his new personality.

Finally, the main reason why DmC Dante is hated is because DmC was a game that came at a really bad time, when fans wanted Capcom to close the open threads left in the series, but they made the lazy and unexpected decision to reboot the whole thing. A bit more detailed in my post two pages ago.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Sooo as I stop and actually decide to think about it, I , very quickly actually, come to the realization that DMC3 and DmC are the only games where Dante gets any character development.

DMC1? He stays the same.

DMC2? Stays the same....though he's had most of the fun sucked out of him

And he stays the same in DMC4. Though in that game, he wasn't the main character

EDIT: And I realize Foxy literally said the same thing just before me....What am I a broken record?

 

[Chancey289]

@UncannyGarlic

because i know that when i play that mission
every single time i'm going to have to hear that Sparda couldn't protect his family

Sparda didn't even protect his family in the original. He just up and poofed.

But seriously, does anyone actually give a crap about Sparda? I mean honestly, if you say you do, I'd say you're lying.

Sparda is not a character in this franchise, he's just a friggin plot device to basically explain everything that happens in this series because all things have to revolve around Sparda and his family tree. Arbitrarily he's the ultimate badass because the game says so and that's it.

Hate to break it to you, but no really cares about Sparda. They care about people like Dante, Trish, Lady, Vergil, etc.etc. but no one cares about Sparda.

One thing I appreciated about DmC, was that Dante and his endeavors were the center of this tale, he didn't do everything in Sparda's shadow.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Yes yes Chancy we know, you've gone on about it I don't even know how many times.

Think you can talk about it in another thread? We're talking about Dante

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Well I'm pretty sure I didn't rock a purple Sparda avatar for ages because I didn't like the character.

Anyway, I'd still argue that DMC 3 Dante becomes the DMC 1 Dante, and you have to take both games into account for that character development.

 

[Foxtrot94]

From the looks of it, he's gonna focus on DmC primarily though, we'll see when the video comes out.

Yes Bison, you've got great responsibility.

 

[Director Bison]

Sparda didn't even protect his family in the original. He just up and poofed.

But seriously, does anyone actually give a crap about Sparda? I mean honestly, if you say you do, I'd say you're lying.

Sparda is not a character in this franchise, he's just a friggin plot device to basically explain everything that happens in this series because all things have to revolve around Sparda and his family tree. Arbitrarily he's the ultimate badass because the game says so and that's it.

Hate to break it to you, but no really cares about Sparda. They care about people like Dante, Trish, Lady, Vergil, etc.etc. but no one cares about Sparda.

One thing I appreciated about DmC, was that Dante and his endeavors were the center of this tale, he didn't do everything in Sparda's shadow.

I care about Sparda
and I DON'T care what anyone else thinks about him

i don't formulate my opinions based on what other people say
i make my own based on how i feel

Sparda with what little is actually shown of him left a huge impact on me

you can disagree with me i have no problem with that
you have made legitimate points about Sparda's lack of character in the past
i have seen them and i agree with most of them

but don't tell me that my Opinion is wrong
because opinions are subjective
they can't BE wrong

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Unfortunately we couldn't give you great power with it, yeah sorry bud. EDIT: If you had read this right after Foxy's comment it would have been hilarious.......I'll just be going now

 

[Director Bison]

also i'd like to say that opinions being subjective

IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY VIDEO

people who say things like
DmC Dante is just EMO so who cares
or DMC3 Dante is just ANIME Cliches so who cares

that is what i want to prove wrong with this video
even if you don't like something it is still going to be important to other people and you should respect those peoples opinions

not act as if your subjective opinions are superior to other peoples subjective opinions

 

[Triggerpigking]

I'd like a sparda centric game at some point, not a mainline game but a spin off? that could be cool, hell if they were to follow multiple events in his life rather then just the war(jumping back and forth) it could be interesting and would give them a lot of area and weaponry variety.
I won't say he's an interesting character to me but thats really because we have'nt seen him, just had people talk about him, there's a lot of mysteriousness to the character still and I think thats why people like him(of course this means they'd have to be very careful with a spinoff).
Also does anyone else like to think the sparda skin in dmc4 is just dante dressing up like his dad to confuse and scare the **** out of the demons? XD.

@UncannyGarlic I have to agree with you about the walking sequences, while the bigger focus on storytelling is cool it does make it harder to enjoy the game if you dislike the story, unlike 4 where you can skip all of it, what's worse is that these games are usually made with replayability in mind(i've replayed 4 alone several times in the last few months), even if the story was great, going through the same sequences over and over again would get repetitive as hell.

Also the characters being inconsistent spread to vergil as well, for one anyone can see the twist coming at the end however, it's not because it's foreshadowed, simply because anyone who's played dmc3 would know they are gonna pull it, I was hoping they were saving it for a sequel honestly because they could've instead built up the relationship between dante and vergil in this game who unlike dmc3 were still on good terms for most of the game.
And because they felt they had to have a twist like that in there and had to have vergil be like his dmc3 counterpart he ends up turning from a brainy hacker(who really does'nt do much to show that he's smart) who can seemingly barely hold his own against one demon to suddenly being superpowered near the end and pulling out all these moves we had'nt seen before, the fact that the game is telling us he thought Kat and Dante where on board with this whole rule the world idea was also laughable, he just assumed they were gonna go along with it, the whole betrayal felt rushed, and it's really funny just how quickly the game has them both turn on eachother.
There's also the shooting scene which I think could've been used for character development but they do nothing with it, he's just being a dick basically.

There was some great ideas with him, for one him not hating humanity but feeling it's his duty to protect and rule over them could've been pretty fascinating, and if they'd gone more in depth with the trauma dante had such as the implied drug addiction of the first trailer, the shooting scene could've been a way of showing vergil was'nt all there either and was in fact mentally deranged more so then even his brother.