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Would Old Vergil have killed Lilith?

Would old Vergil kill Lilith?

  • hell yeah.

    Votes: 39 84.8%

  • No, he's too honorable.

    Votes: 7 15.2%
  • Total voters
    46
Honorable or not:
  1. Vergil warned Arkham.
  2. It is gang members own fault
If Vergil made a conscious decision within his mind "I will surprise Arkham by cutting the woman" or "I will take advantage of these human gangs not knowing i am strong".
Please...it's not cheapshot. Vergil is stronger than Arkham and the gangs. Hell even if Vergil stood still it would take the gang members long time before they would hurt Vergil.

With Arkham he was angry and attacked, and again ...he did give a warning "Leave me".
With gang members...why would he take a cheapshot against weaklings? There is no reason for him to do it.
He just didn't give a sh1t and killed them.
You can interpret it as a cheapshot. Sure...but it's not. Vergil did not need to take an unfair approach to killing the woman nor the gang members.

EDIT: Vergil wasn't desperate. Where as NTVergil said "I had to".

Also NTVergil was thinking "What if Mundus's heir is not killed", and from there he killed Lilith.
 
IncarnatedDemon said:
Well NTVergil wanted power over world. While dmc3Vergil was in a world that wasn't plagued by demons.
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NT Vergil thought he was saving the world from Mundus and demonic control, but Vergil twisted that into him potentially being just as bad. He didn't want power until the story in Vergil's Downfall DLC.

Classic Vergil was the one who caused the demons to be released onto the human world when he summoned the demon tower and opened the hell portal. So, classic Vergil caused that demon plague problem all by himself, whereas NT Vergil was in a world that was already plagued by demons, and he saw it as his duty to rid the world of them...then became just as bad by the end.

TWOxACROSS said:
It just wasn't as pronounced since the point was to not make things seem so one-dimensional, really. Classic Vergil was just so power hungry because...of...uh...reasons? Did he ever have one O_________________o
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The most we can do is speculate and guess based on dialogue and our own head cannon for Vergil as a character. But there isn't really much solid proof for why he did what he did. To be like Sparda? To get revenge for his mother? To stop himself feeling helpless over losing his family to demons? I could see those being reasons at first, but then the more he learned and did, the more twisted he became.
 
A cheapshot is when you attack someone when they don't expect you to.

Arkham didn't expect to get stabbed after he opened the door in DMC3. The gangsters weren't expecting him to attack in the manga. The Vanguard wasn't expecting to get sliced in half.

About the only one who had any semblance of a warning was the demon gal, but Vergil's remark to "leave me be" was aimed at Arkham, and not her.

Granted, Vergil's combat style using iaido exemplifies that, because the kata revolve around attacking from an nonthreatening stance.
 
Loopy said:
The most we can do is speculate and guess based on dialogue and our own head cannon for Vergil as a character. But there isn't really much solid proof for why he did what he did. To be like Sparda? To get revenge for his mother? To stop himself feeling helpless over losing his family to demons? I could see those being reasons at first, but then the more he learned and did, the more twisted he became.
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And this is what I mean, headcanon is nice and all, but it's not fact :S As much as we know is really that he just wanted "mooaaaaaar POWAAAAAAAAAAAR~" and he preached how might is the best way to stay on top. What was it? "Might controls everything." I suppose that's the only hint we'd have that maybe his lust for power was about him wanting to "control everything," but...it's rather flimsy *shrug*
 
How is it a cheapshot when the outcome would be the same?

Let's assume these situations happened:

Vergil: "Woman if you dont stop i will kill you"
*doesnt stop*
*woman cut in half*

Vergil: "Dont annoy me humans or i will kill you all"
*gangs dont listen and attack him*
they are slaughtered

Not caring to tell people your going to attack is not the same taking a cheapshot. a cheapshot is in most cases a act of desperation. Vergil wasn't desperate.

@Loopy
Thanks for correcting me. What i meant is that NTVergil and Vergil would have different motives. Vergil would not care if demons were among humans, he would attack Mundus and Mundus junior after saving the person (in this case Kat)
While NTVergil killed lilith and baby mundus to ensure that world would be safe even if he risked Kat's life.
 
The way I see it, the original Vergil didn't show any feeling to kill anyone. If they annoyed him or got in his way they were going to die. That's not really honorable. He was fighting for power to be like his father. If he really was like his father he would have been fighting for someone he loved. In the end he was fighting for his own betterment.

The new Vergil showed concern for his brother, but not for anyone else. At least not openly. There were a few hints that he cared about Kat, but cared more about what he was doing. He said he wanted to save the humans, but there were still selfish reasons involved. At least he was fighting for a change, though one that wouldn't have turned out well.

In a way I see the new Vergil as having more honor, even if it's still not much. He believed he was doing the right thing and that he was getting his family back. Everything he did was to gain control over everything, but he thought it was the only way to save everyone and keep them safe. The original Vergil didn't even think of his own brother. He was willing to cut his brother in half in order to gain more power. Not exactly brotherly love.
 
IncarnatedDemon said:
How is it a cheapshot when the outcome would be the same?
Click to expand...


The outcome of a cheapshot doesn't matter >.< It's the act of taking a cheapshot. It's why they call it a cheapshot, because it's easy to take. Cheapshots are generally seen as something deplorable, because fights should be between individuals who all know what's going on (that there's a fight).

It's pretty much the exact opposite of honor that outlines a warrior's code of conduct, like not killing unarmed combatants, not attacking civilians, and never striking from behind - because that's all too easy :p
 
TWOxACROSS said:
And this is what I mean, headcanon is nice and all, but it's not fact :S As much as we know is really that he just wanted "mooaaaaaar POWAAAAAAAAAAAR~" and he preached how might is the best way to stay on top. What was it? "Might controls everything." I suppose that's the only hint we'd have that maybe his lust for power was about him wanting to "control everything," but...it's rather flimsy *shrug*
Click to expand...
He says something like 'Might controls everything . And without strength you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself.' I guess you could take those lines to mean Vergil was feeling guilt over not being able to protect his mother and brother from the demon attack. It also seems to me that Vergil wanted the power to protect himself as well.
On the other hand, considering this quote was said to Dante, it could be Vergil's way of trying to get Dante to accept his demon powers so that Dante can protect himself from Vergil...considering what Vergil does to Dante after that quote, that would make sense.

IncarnatedDemon said:
@Loopy
Thanks for correcting me. What i meant is that NTVergil and Vergil would have different motives. Vergil would not care if demons were among humans, he would attack Mundus and Mundus junior after saving the person (in this case Kat)
While NTVergil killed lilith and baby mundus to ensure that world would be safe even if he risked Kat's life.
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I see what you mean, but I really don't think classic Vergil would save Kat. In DMC3, Vergil wanted to fight Mundus because his father did it. I think that goal would get in the way of any notion classic Vergil would have for saving Kat. Remember how he treated Lady? When he wasn't getting her own father to kill her, he had a go himself. Just like Lady, Kat would be a human getting in the way of his plan to defeat Mundus.

TWOxACROSS said:
The outcome of a cheapshot doesn't matter >_< It's the act of taking a cheapshot. It's why they call it a cheapshot, because it's easy to take. Cheapshots are generally seen as something deplorable, because fights should be between individuals who all know what's going on (that there's a fight).

It's pretty much the exact opposite of honor that outlines a warrior's code of conduct, like not killing unarmed combatants, not attacking civilians, and never striking from behind - because that's all too easy :P
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I guess the part where he stabs Arkham would count as this. Arkham thinks that Vergil is on his side, he thinks Vergil will share demonic power with him; then suddenly Vergil turns on him and stabs him with the intention of killing. Arkham doesn't see it coming, he doesn't fight back, he can't fight back.
There is no warning of this for Arkham because up to that point, Vergil seems perfectly fine working with him. I'd call that a cheap shot, regardless of me not liking Arkham.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
The outcome of a cheapshot doesn't matter >_< It's the act of taking a cheapshot. It's why they call it a cheapshot, because it's easy to take. Cheapshots are generally seen as something deplorable, because fights should be between individuals who all know what's going on (that there's a fight).

It's pretty much the exact opposite of honor that outlines a warrior's code of conduct, like not killing unarmed combatants, not attacking civilians, and never striking from behind - because that's all too easy :P
Click to expand...
I don't see how it's a cheapshot. My point by telling you to imagine opposite scenario of what happened is that Vergil did not need to take a cheapshot.
Therefor it is not a cheapshot because:
  1. He's not desperate
  2. He didn't seem to think about it before attacking i.e he didn't care
Loopy said:
I see what you mean, but I really don't think classic Vergil would save Kat. In DMC3, Vergil wanted to fight Mundus because his father did it. I think that goal would get in the way of any notion classic Vergil would have for saving Kat. Remember how he treated Lady? When he wasn't getting her own father to kill her, he had a go himself. Just like Lady, Kat would be a human getting in the way of his plan to defeat Mundus.
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Lady is and was a stranger to Vergil. We're talking about a scenario where Vergil would have someone close to him in danger, not a stranger.
Plus this female friend of Vergil could have influenced him into different thoughts.
 
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