Why does Ninja Theory get all the bullsh*t?

[Stylish Nero]

I'm not the only one here disillusioned, you know?

I wasn't even finished on what I said. He wanted DMC to have a different cast of characters in each and every DMC game, like the Final Fantasy series, to which I have to point out the last thing you've said here...

Technically it would've still been a series of DMC games new protagonists or not.

Would each game be in a new universe. If not its more comparable to Pokemon which does the main character switcheroo each game but in the same universe.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Which one is second prequel?

DMC 4 it was a prequel to DMC2 and didn't really progress the story by one bit.

I guess Kamiya is the type of person who hates "sequels" since he never makes sequels to his own games (even Bayonetta 2 is being directed by someone else with his creative supervision of course).

LOL are you kidding me ?? he made Resident evil 2 !! one of the best sequels ever made if anything he loves to make sequels !

), but I don't care about EA at all! Hell, I don't even care about any big time game publisher/developer at all!...

Agree 100%.. in the current generation big name developers have gone lazy and cheap they disband/destroy their creative department just to make petty profit.

 

[Martius]

DMC 4 it was a prequel to DMC2 and didn't really progress the story by one bit.

Really? I thought its sequel. I guess even people at Capcom dont know where to put DMC2.

 

[Stylish Nero]

DMC 4 it was a prequel to DMC2 and didn't really progress the story by one bit.
LOL are you kidding me ?? he made Resident evil 2 !! one of the best sequels ever made if anything he loves to make sequels !

I said his own games. RE is Mikami's game (although Kamiya was part of it). RE2 was Kamiya's first game ever directing and in an interview he even said he messed up big time and had to go Mikami for guidance and redo the entire project.

Granted he did make sequels to Veiwtiful Joe but Atsushi Inaba is considered as a large factor to VJ as Kamiya and the fact Kamiya position for VJ2 was writer and not director.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

Technically it would've still been a series of DMC games new protagonists or not.

Would each game be in a new universe. If not its more comparable to Pokemon which does the main character switcheroo each game but in the same universe.

What I meant by "series" is this:
Story revolving around just one "same" guy. I do like Dante, but I believe he needs to give other characters chances in the spotlight, like Vergil. Sorry to Nero; he got his already, but he blew that chance! We can't have one guy over and over. Maybe that is why some people felt DMC4 felt stale...!

Now I don't know if Kamiya-san said about same universe for the next DMC. Or maybe a new universe as what you said? Or would that new universe be similar to the first? This is rather open-ended here...

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Really? I thought its sequel. I guess even people at Capcom dont know where to put DMC2.

Sequels are supposed to be in direct relation with the previous titles DMC 4 hardly felt like that dante was just there for the sake of it.. he had almost no place in the story in fact they could have just left dante as an unlockable character.

Technically DMC 2 is still the only sequel there are no games that take place after that.

I said his own games. RE is Mikami's game (although Kamiya was part of it). RE2 was Kamiya's first game ever directing and in an interview he even said he messed up big time and had to go Mikami for guidance and redo the entire project..

IDK why would he refuse to make sequels to his own game ? i mean he could have made DMC 2 wayy better than DMC 3 if you ask me.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

Gonna go back to bed. It's 1:40 AM here! I'll be back up soon!

 

[Martius]

Sequels are supposed to be in direct relation with the previous titles DMC 4 hardly felt like that dante was just there for the sake of it.. he had almost no place in the story in fact they could have just left dante as an unlockable character.

I guess DMC4 could be called kinda not direct sequel.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

I guess DMC4 could be called kinda not direct sequel.

it isn't... it doesn't take place after DMC2 to be a sequel it must take place after DMC 2.

 

[Lionheart]

Really? I thought its sequel. I guess even people at Capcom dont know where to put DMC2.

Well, DMC4 is not actually a prequel, as the word prequel implies it set in motion the events of DMC2. It did not. It's more like filler. Just a side game, kind of. And the word sequel implies it's a continuation of what happened in the previous game, by the way. But yes, DMC2 takes place after DMC4 (though nobody knows when, and nor does anyone care).

 

[Martius]

it isn't... it doesn't take place after DMC2 to be a sequel it must take place after DMC 2.

Wiki says that 4 is last while dmcwiki say 2 is, both dont have any source of that. Maybe you have something? I think one of the games had something like "in previous devil may cry", but that could mean just previously released games and i dont remember which game had id.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I guess DMC4 could be called kinda not direct sequel.

How about Interquel?

 

[Pale Rider]

To your first part of your post, Migs:

I kinda saw this coming. Alastor, that was Dante's sword, roght? I don't think even Yamato existed in DMC1? Aside from some very little inconsistencies, I believe DMC3 did a fine job portraying the yesteryears of Dante in DMC1.

You might say that how Dante was more sensitive in DMC1 whereas in DMC3, he was cocky, not really bothered by the past. I'd say maybe that his cockiness was a way to hide his pain( oh so cliche-y, isn't it?). After meeting Lady, maybe he started realising that he never got over his past like he thought he did!

I understand this is speculation on my part, and you might think I'm saying all this to defend DMC, but it makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised in the slighest if you don't buy this as well. Afterall, DMC3 is a reboot in your eyes, while according to me, it's not a straight prequel, but is definitely far-far away from a reboot.

As an ending note forthis, if you are considering saying that Dante in DMC3 was an anime trope... blah blah blah... I'd just say he "grew up".

This is why, due to my disillusionment towards this franchise, especially on what you said, I will no longer consider this "series" as a series! This is one of the reasons why I don't come here too often like I used to. I also felt like it was a mistake for Capcom to turn DMC into a series as what Hideki Kamiya-san didn't intend it to be anyway!

It's understandable.



And this goes to both of you guys, Migs & Lionheart, PLEASE don't use that color to reply. It strains my eyes and makes it difficult to read on a black background. It's my humble request.

 

[Lionheart]

And this goes to both of you guys, Migs & Lionheart, PLEASE don't use that color to reply. It strains my eyes and makes it difficult to read on a black background. It's my humble request.

You won't believe this, but I actually marked it red first. Then I thought: it looks too hostile. Guess the blue looks too hostile to your eyes Sorry.
And... it's red again

 

[Alittleacorn]

Well, let's recap - no pun intended. Devil May Cry is not a franchise that sells like hotcakes. No, it's more in line with popular but not so popular games. I guess Dragon Quest or the Tales series could be similar franchises to DMC than the infamous Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, and Grand Theft Auto which sold like a billion copies in one week. That said, the series sells and people like the series except for DMC2 which had flawed gameplay but began the control scheme later DMCs would use and DMC4 for the sole reason of Nero and the story being focused on him and not Dante - kind of like why some don't like Metal Gear Solid 2. Capcom really wanted to make big sales across all their franchises even though some of them don't sell as much since the fan-base was already small to begin with or because the interest was dying out like with Street Fighter and Devil May Cry. Shooters became the main and over-saturated focus of the generation. Capcom only had one "shooter" and that was Resident Evil. So, Lost Planet was created, but it kind of went from cool idea to Monster Hunter with guns, to generic shooter - I would have liked the latter two. Resident Evil 6, I think, set an awesome control scheme, but it was more "off" compared to Resident 4, which many felt that RE games should continue like rather than what RE5 and RE6 did. Basically, it went from survival-horror, to survival-horror where players have a greater means to survive, survival-horror shooter, to survival-horror shooter, generic shooter, and weird, but cool melee game all combined. Capcom's focus on DLC and DLC business practices weren't helping fans' views on the company.

So, after 2 years, Capcom announces a new DMC game with a black-haired, gaunt, violent, smoking Dante and Ninja Theory's name was on the project. First, there was backlash on the design of the so-called Dante. Theories ranged from Dante being in hell and in a coma - continuing off of DMC2 -, to Dante being in some nightmare-induced world, a fake Dante, and other wild theories. Here's the thing that went of before DmC: Devil May Cry was announced. Capcom sought developers who could tell good stories and considering Ninja Theory's track record, they picked them, even though past games from NT were written by third-party writers. Capcom was also going through a "westernization" phase to appeal to the larger consumer-base in the North Americas, Europe, and Australia. Capcom wanted to westernize DMC and to use DmC as a fresh start. Ninja Theory, however, researched and understood what Devil May Cry was about, they wanted to continue what Devil May Cry did and add a more engaging story. Hell, most of the concept art they released had DmC Dante looking like DMC Dante; white hair, lots of red, leather, and no smoking but with twists to tie into today's fashion and ideas; the punk look, rebels, disenfranchisement, etc. Capcom wanted none of that, they wanted something extreme and unfamiliar. Ninja Theory complied and created the black-haired, more twisted, and violent Dante of TGS 2010. Both knew that there would be strong reactions.

So here we are, with NT and Capcom receiving tons of backlash, and their public relations confused, agitated, and frustrated by fans. DmC was described as an origin story, a prequel, and a reboot. Nobody knew what the hell it was until now; DmC is a reboot of the DMC franchise. It is an origin story as DMC3 was an origin story. DmC and DMC3 tells us who Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Sparda, and Eva are, what they did, and what made them who they are. DmC is a prequel, why, well if DmC2 comes out, then it'll be a prequel to DmC2.

Ninja Theory's track record is laden with glitches, simple combat, great art, atmosphere, and games with good stories before DmC. That made tons of fans worried that DmC would just be all show and no game. What wasn't said was that Capcom basically handled the combat and Ninja Theory handled the graphics, script, music score, etc. NT might have even been "mentored" by Capcom's combat developers and basically the mentors would tell them to do this and NT's employees would and learn from it. Another issue was their choice of the Unreal Engine 3, which can do dynamic terrain, but heavily taxes any current-gen system. MT Framework on the other hand, has been shown to be able to do high-speed combat and some dynamic terrain. The 30 FPS lock worried fans even more except for PC fans who found out that they would have an unlocked FPS counter.

So, fans were already worried by Ninja Theory, the developer chosen for DmC, a developer not known for good combat, and the PR. Tameem was obviously upset and dogged by angry fans. He has his own limit as does everyone else. What he isn't is a PR person. He's just another developer at NT. Bad move on being one of the PR crew. They should have hired someone else or had someone who understands Tameem and could translate and filter what he was saying. David Cage, anyone? Good developer, good ideas, bad way in how he puts his ideas and opinions out. Cage at times makes it seem that nobody, but his studio has done games that are emotional and thought provoking. Tameem and NT have good ideas, but the way he says some things angered people along with confusing them.

When he referred to DMC Dante not being cool now, but cool back then, it's true. Fashion changes throughout the ages. If it didn't then we'd all be wearing robes, tunics, tights, and other old, crappy, uncomfortable clothing. Fashion in the past decade is different than fashion in the 80's, 70's, 60's, and 50's. DMC Dante is cool; his design was based on what was cool in the 90's and 00's. Fashion changed and DmC Dante sort of fits what would be normal or cool in the 10's. Actually DmC Vergil would be more fashionable and DmC Dante is basically a poor man wearing whatever he can get. Leather jackets were cool back then. Still cool, but not as prominent as hoodies which DmC Dante and Kat wear and "hipster" clothing which DmC Vergil wears. What Tameem said sounded like, "DMC Dante's a loser". Sure, would you have a drink with someone in leather chaps, long, red coat, and fingerless gloves who is flamboyant, a little crazy, and dramatic? It'd be kind of strange even back then. But DMC is over-the-top. DmC is more grounded and you would still not want to have a drink with some wannabe punk, rebel, homeless guy with anger, identity, social issues.

At the same time, fans especially the more outspoken ones basically labeled DmC Dante as a drug addict, loser, and a pile of crap. To Ninja Theory, or any developer in particular, that is an insult. Instead, fans should have offered criticism and asked for changes rather than just spewing out angry opinions. inFAMOUS 2 had Cole with a full-head of hair which made him look like Nathan Drake, random tattoos, and all black clothing. Was there outrage? Yes, but fans asked, although angrily, for Cole to look like his old self from inFAMOUS 1. Y'know, fans could have just said, "NT, could you make Dante a little more muscular?", "NT, I don't like that Dante smokes, it's not part of what makes him cool", "NT, I'd like a longer coat, please." Same thing is sort of happening with Metal Gear Solid V where some people are just saying that Quiet looks like a ***** instead of asking why the hell she looks like this or something else than labeling and harsh opinions. People could have just said, "I don't like ____'s design", instead of saying "_____'s design is disgusting".

Long story short, Capcom didn't say anything about who's doing what and what part they had in Dante's design. The PR wasn't able to tell fans information without confusing them or angering them. Fans's outrage made it worse and basically Tameem snapped and stopped trying to be the nice guy. So, it's not just NT's fault, it's everyone's fault. But people just like to pick on the more outspoken ones, Tameem of NT who represented Ninja Theory and the fans. Capcom, you sly devil, keeping your mouth shut so little to no blame is directed to you.

Also, I'd like to say that Greg aka Gregaman did much more to tell people what DmC: Devil May Cry is than the trailers, articles, and PR did. Combat was the main focus and he basically showed us the combat: the thing fans really wanted to know.

Everything you just said, right there, I completely agree with. And in the bit in bold, imagine how things different would've been if people had just done what you said, instead what did happen and has since. But I do think a lot of the blame is on Capcom for some of the decisions they made. I do like DmC, but they did make a vast change from what the series is. And Capcom were the ones who kept requesting NT to do something different.

As for their history in combat, honestly when I first started getting into liking DmC after Enslaved cracked my hard shell, I was still doubtful if they could pull off DmC's combat at the time. Sure NT has improved a lot and learnt something as a result, but I still wonder if Capcom asked too much on having a small company take on one of their second well known series. Perhaps they should've just had NT come in and help them instead of the other way around.

I would I'd say more, but your post pretty much sums it up what I think on it and everything else.

And I don't like Quiet's outfit, I'd prefer they'd change to something less revealing, but I am waiting on what the reason on that is, even though I think I know what one of them might be XD [Although do I have a serious theory it's to distract male soldiers or something to get in a quick shoot since she uses some sniper rifle. That or there's some tragic backstory behind her].

 

[ROCKMAN X]

. Maybe you have something?

I do.. i have logic it can't be a sequel if it doesn't take place after the events of DMC 2 to be a "Sequel" it need to move forward in time if DMC 2 didn't exist then we can say that DMC 4 was an indirect sequel.

"in previous devil may cry", but that could mean just previously released games and i dont remember which game had id.

You mean History of DMC ?? it was in DMC 4 it was just a slideshow of entire DMC series

its kinda funny how uroboros was in DMC2.

,I don't think even Yamato existed in DMC1?

Yeah that was sparda's sword

I believe DMC3 did a fine job portraying the yesteryears of Dante in DMC1

It still was very underwhelming as far as character development goes until the epilogue dante is just an unlikable brat who yells a lot.

I'd say maybe that his cockiness was a way to hide his pain( oh so cliche-y, isn't it?). After meeting Lady, maybe he started realising that he never got over his past like he thought he did!

You can add that @Fanfiction.net

 

[Chancey289]

Devil May Cry's canon is f#cked up and unorganized. Riddled with plot holes and continuity issues.

There you go. Debate over.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Everything you just said, right there, I completely agree with. And in the bit in bold, imagine how things different would've been if people had just done what you said, instead what did happen and has since. But I do think a lot of the blame is on Capcom for some of the decisions they made. I do like DmC, but they did make a vast change from what the series is. And Capcom were the ones who kept requesting NT to do something different.

As for their history in combat, honestly when I first started getting into liking DmC after Enslaved cracked my hard shell, I was still doubtful if they could pull off DmC's combat at the time. Sure NT has improved a lot and learnt something as a result, but I still wonder if Capcom asked too much on having a small company take on one of their second well known series. Perhaps they should've just had NT come in and help them instead of the other way around.

I would I'd say more, but your post pretty much sums it up what I think on it and everything else.

And I don't like Quiet's outfit, I'd prefer they'd change to something less revealing, but I am waiting on what the reason on that is, even though I think I know what one of them might be XD [Although do I have a serious theory it's to distract male soldiers or something to get in a quick shoot since she uses some sniper rifle. That or there's some tragic backstory behind her].

The real reason for Quiet's design was marketing.

If they include scantily clad women or characters in their games it might sell more figurines and people will cosplay as them.

Hey that is what Kojima himself said.

 

[Chancey289]

I might be Quiet for Halloween.

 

[Alittleacorn]

The real reason for Quiet's design was marketing.

If they include scantily clad women or characters in their games it might sell more figurines and people will cosplay as them.

Hey that is what Kojima himself said.

That too :lol: I'm still waiting for her husband Noisy to be revealed. Acorn wants her some speedo man!