^I've been wondering the same; I've been seeing it a lot everywhere else on the 'net for the past two or three days.
What can Capcom do to make a DMC5 a "true" mainstream hit.
- Thread starter GF9000000Returns
- Start date
Ok so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Supposedly some one leaked this picture, and we all know who this certain character is. That at E3 we are supposed to have some kind of confirmation. Speculation is that this is an actual DMC 5 game coming from capcom, but then again there is also rumored that he is a character in SSB...again only rumored, again this is a leaked picture....all I know is that something is going to happen
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Well rumor or not from what it looks like, it looks to be DMC1 Dante's coat with the sleeves rolled up, gloves, the hair looks like the DMC1 due and the pants from DMC4 but baggier. In the pic, he looks about in his early or late 20's.
MigsRZXAStylish
In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
So we're getting that Dante, huh? Good! I liked DMC1 Dante out of all the "Dantes" that came after him anyway!
Thumbs up for Livanov's Sherlock gifThen allow me to explain. Let's look at DMC and then look at games like CoD, GoW, Assassin's Creed, etc. Which game series does DMC beat in terms of sales all together? Certainly not Assassin's Creed or CoD. Why? because DMC isn't appealing to the masses of West, which keeps its sales low and un-mainstream. DmC did sell less then DMC, but that doesn't exclude the fact that DmC had a lot more work put into it compared to DMC and that was made note of for reviews and sales. Low to Capcom is different for NT, which to them was a successful number to reach.
No doubt Capcom will go back to DMC, but for me it's a shame because DmC does have a lot to work with and start anew rather then creating another complicated plot and further confuse the DMC lore.
I did care about gameplay in DMC, and I thought it was good...but it's also dated and hasn't grown in 10 years before DmC. DMC follows a basic rule in gameplay that, while nostalgic, will get old if not updated. DMC isn't Mario or Zelda in which it doesn't need to grow to a complete 180 to still be relevant. This is DMC; the slightly popular game series that revolutionized the H&S genre and then just became another H&S series after that with slightly better gameplay.
People can prefer whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I ignore faults. DMC has faults like DmC has faults. Both of them being story.
And I say outdated once again because DMC has a style and way of carrying itself as most anime does. It uses old catchphrases and old dialogue that you'd think was cheesy or used over and over again like "I will protect you" or "My heart will be my power" or something like that. It is an opinion, but it's a glaring opinion that's not all that wrong.
Because DmC created more buzz and more attention with it's initial 2010 TGS trailer, then DMC3 and DMC4 did with theirs. When the 2010 trailer first appeared not only did it produce more views and more attention (negatively mind you) then the original series did since DMC1, but it also gave capcom a chance to increase the popularity of the original series at that time with the HD collection, thus getting DMC back as "talked-about" series in the gaming world. This can be seen with including him in Project X zone, MvC3, Monster Hunters, Sengoku Basara 4 DLC costumes, etc etc. And it's all because DmC was being hated on, others wanted to know if the originals were anything to complain about, more people curious about the series, more popularity for the series because of DmC taking the hits.
Elementary, my dear Watson.
Other than that, it has it's down effect: no matter what announced next, DmC or DMC, at least 1/3 of the people gonna insta-drop franchise. Splitting fanbase isn't clever idea. Besides, they just can't win GoW crowd with DmC.
What can Capcom do to make DMC5 a true mainstream hit?
They can stop trying to make a "mainstream hit" for starters.
They can stop trying to make a "mainstream hit" for starters.
''DmC had a lot more work put into it compared to DMC''. And you know this... how? Did you secretly work at Capcom? I know Capcom and NT worked together for DmC, but that does not mean more work was put into it. It's like you're saying Capcom never put any thought into the DMCs... Capcom would not appreciate those words. These people worked their butts off to make those H&S games, you became a fan of their series. Without them, you wouldn't be on this forum, and now you're saying they didn't do their best? Classy.
Of course DMC doesn't beat Assassin's Creed or CoD, as that is a Herculean task. You don't expect a hack and slash game geared toward a certain market to beat out mainstream juggernauts like AC or CoD, do you? Of course not. You said DMC had lackluster sales in general, which it certainly does not. Also, which DMC? DMC1 alone sold 2.1 million copies, which is amazing, especially considering these facts: 1: it's an H&S game, 2: it's focused on a specific market , not a wide 'common denominator' audience, and 3: it was a new IP.
Sure, it doesn't have as many sales as AC (western stealth/action game) or CoD (western shooter series), but how is that even an argument? How can you justify comparing insanely different games? It's even weirder considering you're comparing games from the 2000s to games like the newest CoDs and Assassin's Creed. Also, for a game series that ''isn't appealing to the masses of West'', DMC sure as hell outsold DmC by far. Even DMC3 did better than DmC. DMC3 sold 1.3 million, DmC sold 1.1 in the allotted timeframe, even though DmC was geared toward as wide an audience as possible
''it's a shame because DmC does have a lot to work with and start anew rather then creating another complicated plot and further confuse the DMC lore''
Why assume a new DMC would have a complicated plot? None of the DMCs I've played had a complicated plot - rather the opposite. DMC4 is a prime example of an easy to follow story: Dante and Nero need to beat Sanctus so that demons don't get control over the human world. Though of course Nero's origins were unexplained. DMC has a lot to work with too: DMC5 can retcon from the end of DMC1 onward, or even restart with a new character, for all I care. DmC does not have more to work with than DMC.
''DMC follows a basic rule in gameplay that, while nostalgic, will get old if not updated. DMC isn't Mario or Zelda in which it doesn't need to grow to a complete 180 to still be relevant.''
Who says DMC never gets updated? How can you know that before a new DMC is released? Can't just make assumptions. Also, DmC had basically the same gameplay as DMC4. DaNTe was a combination of DMC4 Dante and Nero. It had some platforming, but other than that, it was basically reskinned DMC4 gameplay. So I don't see how it updated anything.
''And I say outdated once again because DMC has a style and way of carrying itself as most anime does. It uses old catchphrases and old dialogue that you'd think was cheesy or used over and over again like "I will protect you" or "My heart will be my power" or something like that. It is an opinion, but it's a glaring opinion that's not all that wrong.''
And what is the problem with that? ''I will protect you'' is not that bad. Sentimental, maybe, but not cheesy per se. ''My heart will be my power''...? Never heard of that, it's not in any DMC. For the most part, the dialog from the DMCs was normal. DMC1 started off as a bit weird, but the next DMCs made up for it. DMC3's dialog was fine - if anything about it was cheesy, it was some of Dante's lines. But that is the whole point; Dante is supposed to be cheesy, and when things get serious, he stops and talks seriously and pretty much like any 'normal' person. ''An opinion that's not all that wrong''... opinions can never be wrong or right unless they're based on false information. You're arguing your opinion is the right one, when it is not. It is not wrong either, it's just... an opinion. :meh:
''but it also gave capcom a chance to increase the popularity of the original series at that time with the HD collection, thus getting DMC back as "talked-about" series in the gaming world.''
Who said DMC wasn't talked about anymore? Is this all just pure speculation? You didn't say DmC gained the DMCs more popularity, you said DmC was more popular than the DMCs. It is not. Maybe it put the DMCs in the spotlight a bit like you said, but that means it made the DMC games more popular, not itself. If DmC itself became popular, it would've sold more than 1.1 million copies within the deadline. Eventually, it sold 1.3 million, which is still far too low considering it was expected to sell two million. Moreover, it was low since it was geared toward a wide audience and should've 'mainstreamed' the series. Instead, the opposite happened. People just went ''meh'' and moved on.
DmC had a chance to start all over, but people apparently didn't want DMC to start over. I know I didn't: I didn't feel like fighting Vergil again, and I didn't want Mundus reintroduced either. Or Dante, for that matter. I just wanted them to move on, with new characters and new ideas. DmC was stale to me, because underneath all the talk about how it was new and improved, it was just some DMC1 and DMC3 stuff all over again, with gameplay stemming from DMC4.
BTW, I noticed your sig. I don't mean this insultingly, but it's spelled Tameem Antoniades, not Antoinaides.
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I like that pic of a possible new Dante, btw. Looks like it could be a cross between DMC4 and DMC1 Dante. If he's got hair similar to DMC2 Dante's, that'd be pretty cool. Or maybe a coat like a cross between the DMC1 and DMC2 ones. Drooling now (yeah, yeah, ''like the fanboy I am'', is what you're going to say :laugh.
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DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Not what I meant. I'm saying NT had less workers and was a smaller company as a whole to work on DmC, thus needing more work put into it. Plus there's the world to be built, a single person to focus on gameplay as oppose to say seven or eight workers, and so on and so forth. I know Capcom put work into DMC, but I feel there was more work put into DmC with what was presented. of course some bugs were in it, but either way there was a lot compacted into one disc.
HA! Like I give a flying f*ck what Capcom thinks.
You mean like how people insult and talk sh*t about NT, even though they too worked their butts off to make DmC? So if it's DMC, everyone appreciate Capcom for their hard work, but for DmC, who worked equally hard, shun them and call them lousy?
Again; God of War, geared to a certain market, is on-par with some of those markets.
That's cute, but that certainly isn't enough to hold off those bigger and better games now is it?
You obviously haven't seen our "DmC vs. MGR" arguments.
I didn't JUST compare DMC1, I compared the series as a whole.
' Also, for a game series that ''isn't appealing to the masses of West'', DMC sure as hell outsold DmC by far. Even DMC3 did better than DmC. DMC3 sold 1.3 million, DmC sold 1.1 in the allotted timeframe, even though DmC was geared toward as wide an audience as possible
Because by the time DmC came about, DMC had already established it's place in the marketing world and a fanbase to stick. Of course DmC wasn't going to be easily accepted into the franchise, but it was a change of pace from the same old, same old and try something different. I appreciate trying new things once in a while.
Really? Then tell me, do you know what happens next with Vergil after becoming the new ruler? What of Dante and Kat? What will happen to the Angels and the demons now that Limbo has collapsed? What of Dante's father, is he free now? Why did Dante's eyes turn red at the end? What happened to Phineas? What of humanity now that the demons are free and roaming the Earth?
These are questions that could be built on.
I never said DMC was complicated with story, but rather unorganized. With DMC, we start at a new beginning of Dante's biggest adventures and end that adventure by the end of the game to be opened to something entirely different from the last game. Plus, it's different time periods. I believe Capcom even once said, they were going to end the series with DMC3 as it told all the apparent key points of Dante's life.
Faster switching of attacks, better world building, (opinion) A more organized control set up, more freedom during gameplay, defying gravity, etc etc. But again this is opinion based, but DmC had a lot more style and bravado to me then DMC did. The only one that comes close to it was DMC3 IMO. (MY opinion, as in NOT fact)
It sure is to me. That's all I ever hear in anime. And DMC, to me, is anime influenced in some manner so I guess it's to be expected.
I should rephrase that; "My SOUL will be my power" DMC3.
You mean like laughing about Lady when she talks about the death of her father? Or when a demon snake mother was morning the loss of her children in grievance, he shot her anyway like a careless douchebag? Yeah, normal indeed.
Then why reply at all if you know this?
Yes, I did. It brought more attention for people to see what the original series was all about. Not commercially, but enough to get DMC talked about again.
Really? So I guess this
Or this
Or this
Or these
Means DMC isn't getting spotlight.
True, I agree there.
Is that not what every DMC game is from DMC1? Whether you thought it was lack luster or not, really doesn't matter to me. I thought it was better then the original series and certainly had more going for it then DMC did. But here you are, arguing at me about how my opinions aren't justifiable simply because you believe DMC to be the superior series, when really its all opinion based. Whether putting things in perspective or not, I consider DmC did what it needed to do; be something different from DMC, while still being DMC in it's core.
Oh, my mistake.
- Alright then, I misunderstood.
- Relax. Like I said, I misunderstood. I didn't talk sh*t about NT, so no need to vent your anger about other people towards me.
- It's not just because it's an H&S game, did you miss my other arguments?
- I don't understand. ''Hold off'' what games, and why? The fact is, DMC has always sold pretty well, and does not need to compete with more mainstream titles. It stands on its own as a very profitable series.
- Nice. That's not an answer to my question, though. Why compare completely different games of different genres and think that all of them are supposed to sell equally well? Is DMC5 supposed to sell as many copies as GTA V? Obviously not.
- Yes, and I said 2000s because the entire DMC series is from 2001 to 2008 (the 2000s).
- DmC is a new installment in the series, so I don't get your argument. It was just as well-known as the DMCs, and should've sold well. The argument stands that it should've at least sold 2 million (and probably more since it westernized the series) but sold 1.1 million in the deadline.
- I didn't say DmC had nothing to work with, I said DmC and DMC have equal amounts of stuff to work with. Big difference. As for DMC being unorganized (DMC1 starts off in the middle, DMC3 from the start etc), that's true, but it doesn't make DMC incredibly hard to follow. The same goes for MGS: it may not be chronological, but the story can still be followed quite easily. A simple synopsis of the DMC story is easy to give. If you find DMC's lore 'confused', that's your view. I find it perfectly clear, and apparently so does the majority of the fanbase, otherwise they wouldn't have continued playing DMC from DMC2 on.
- Faster switching of attacks? In what sense? More organized controls is an opinion too, I found DMC4's controls to make more sense than DmC's. DmC gets really confusing with all the shoulder button stuff going on and needing to hold buttons to be able to use weapons. More freedom during gameplay? Can't remember that... I remember needing to use angel weapons on angelic enemies, and demon weapons on demonic ones. That's restrictive, not liberating. Defying gravity... you mean the Devil Trigger, which is essentially the same as Quicksilver?
Like I said, how can you say DMC does not update anything? You haven't played the last DMC game yet (DMC5). The last DMC was from 2008 - are you comparing a 2008 game to DmC (2013)? The DMC games have always updated with each installment. DMC2 added more attacks, DMC3 added the ability to do combos, DMC4 added on-the-fly style switching, etc. What is your definition of updating?
- I have never even heard ''I'll protect you'' in anime, and I've watched quite a lot. Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, Hunter x Hunter, and so on.
- Well, at least that's cheesiness with a point to it. Dante said that in response to someone, right? And the DMC games (at least from DMC3 on) have a moral idea to convey, so it was probably an apt expression, cheesy or no.
- Laughing about Lady when she talks about her father's death? I think you're oversimplifying things - I remember Dante being fairly serious in DMC3 when she told that story. As for Vergil, he doesn't give a sh*t, I think. And that's the whole point of his character.
- Because you seem to be arguing that your opinion is the only correct one. And sometimes you're arguing something is bad when it's completely subjective. So I want people to realize it's not that simple.
- Must've missed that then. I recall you saying to Innsmouth that DMC had lackluster sales and that DmC was more popular than DMC. You didn't literally say that DMC got more popular due to DmC, you said DmC itself did better than DMC.
- I think you misunderstood. I agreed with you that DMC got more attention due to DmC - duh... it's a new installment, what did you expect? What I disagreed with is that DmC was more popular than all the DMCs.
- Uuhm, no. DMC2 (or DMC3 or DMC4 for that matter) did not reintroduce Mundus, did not reintroduce Vergil, etc etc. They started new stories with new characters and enemies, though I'll agree most of the stories are arguably very much alike. Fact is that DmC is very similar to DMC4 gameplay-wise, and it just rehashes stuff.
Also, I don't believe DMC to be superior to DmC at all. I never said that. Sorry if you got that impression. I simply prefer DMC - that does not mean DmC is inferior. Please don't let this debate devolve into slander.
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DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
I never said you did. I just said how I feel in the constant debate people on other forums pester me with of which I thought was better in my own experience.
MigsRZXAStylish
In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
Lolololol! Oh the irony!
Besides, DMC got too mainstream thanks to DMC4! They were trying to ain for the casual mainstream gaming market with that!
Honestly, I don't think there is a guaranteed way to make a game. "Mainstream"
Obviously, you need a lot of advertising, and good feedback. After that though, it all comes down to whoever's eye it catches. Keep in mind that pretty much every mainstream game on the market either grew it's fanbase over a matter of years. (Minecraft/TF2), or was already part of a mainstream, high selling franchise. (Every other mainstream game on the market nowadays)
That's probably the biggest flaw with Capcom's marketing. They always try to make their games competition for the mainstream ones.
Remember how DmC's sales were low for Capcom's standards, despite the fact it was released only a little bit AFTER New Years? (The time of the year when everyone who wasn't up to their neck in holiday bills, was up to their neck in the cleaning bill after the party)
Capcom was originally hoping for the game to release in November of 2011. For those of you who don't remember, that was the month that Skyrim released and made every game that wasn't CoD it's bitch. In the end, considering how big the rage against DmC was at that point.
With that particular date in mind, the game would've flopped more than a fish out of water watching as Skyrim's sales launched because they hadn't patched the glitch with the giants yet
Obviously, you need a lot of advertising, and good feedback. After that though, it all comes down to whoever's eye it catches. Keep in mind that pretty much every mainstream game on the market either grew it's fanbase over a matter of years. (Minecraft/TF2), or was already part of a mainstream, high selling franchise. (Every other mainstream game on the market nowadays)
That's probably the biggest flaw with Capcom's marketing. They always try to make their games competition for the mainstream ones.
Remember how DmC's sales were low for Capcom's standards, despite the fact it was released only a little bit AFTER New Years? (The time of the year when everyone who wasn't up to their neck in holiday bills, was up to their neck in the cleaning bill after the party)
Capcom was originally hoping for the game to release in November of 2011. For those of you who don't remember, that was the month that Skyrim released and made every game that wasn't CoD it's bitch. In the end, considering how big the rage against DmC was at that point.
With that particular date in mind, the game would've flopped more than a fish out of water watching as Skyrim's sales launched because they hadn't patched the glitch with the giants yet
I think you missed this sentence I said in the beginning
That should tell you that I underdtand that it's subjective to some people, including myself, however in today's reality, NO. For example, people in trenchcoat cosplays, they may be cool for you to walk around in the street, but ridiculous to society in general, cuz really, who the hell wears these goofy trenchcoats and go to stores wearing 80s zumba pants nowadays? :laugh:
In today's gaming world, half the gamers don't even know who the original Dante is, and that's what Ninja Theory was trying to do, put a new Dante for this generation. He may be mean spirited and dumb, but at least he's matured throughout the game, getting somewhat closer to the DMC1 Dante. And let's not forget the fact that Tameem wanted to make Dante similar to the original before Capcom's omission, so let's not badmouth the guy.
Let's be real, none of Ninja theory are that much remembered. They already twice before DmC and both their games despite praise were quickly forgotten. And now let's be honest, both Dante and Vergil in Dmc aren't really clothed like your normal everyday man.
Different universes. Plus the DmC Vergil is maybe dressed like that because of his organization.
You probably missed my point that nobody should care about what is in and out of style. The point is that Dante is a character, and should be allowed to convey a certain persona. If you constrict his style with rules like ''he must not wear trenchcoats, and they may not be red, and his pants should not be baggy etc etc'', then you're completely ruining the whole point of that character. I doubt that in 2001, people found Dante's outfit to be normal. I think they had the same opinion on his outfit as people do now.
Moreover, 'out of style' does not mean the same thing as 'uncool'. Tameem's view that old Dante is uncool simply because his style is (in his opinion) outdated, is immature. Also, I will say about Tameem what I like. Just because he is sometimes right about things and is sometimes likable, that does not mean the mistakes he made don't matter.
And to be honest, I think the idea that trenchcoats are 'out of style' isn't even all that accurate. I see no problem with trenchcoats, as I still see them fairly often in real life. And when I see someone wearing a trenchcoat, at no point do I think ''wow, he/she looks ridiculous''. I think they're just normal-looking coats. As for the rest of Dante's outfit, it's similar to clothing anime characters wear, with maybe a hint of Van Helsing or whatever. Even modern anime shows can still feature characters wearing clothing similar to Dante's, so apparently it's not out of style according to... well... Japan. And somehow I don't hear people complain about characters' outfits in anime, because it is accepted that they are characters, not real people. So... double standards, perhaps? Why should anime-influenced games be judged differently from anime? Yeah, I think it's a case of lack of acceptance of characters, rather than a case of things going 'out of style'.
And then there's the fact that the majority of the DMC fanbase does not find old Dante to be out of style. In fact, they're clamoring for his return. So... is Dante really out of style, or is that just the opinion of a large minority?
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But rest of humans dressed normal in DmC universe...
It's definitely more normal than anything anyone in the original ever wore, though. Both Dante and Vergil got their own style, but it's not all that outlandish if you ask me. I dunno where you live, but it's not that uncommon to see someone to walk around with a leather jacket, or to see someone with a mohawk, or with a fedora, or suit pants, or even white hair, and if you're ignoring that flappy part of Vergil's coat, that one looks pretty normal aswell. Actually, I think Vergil's clothes just look like some expensive designer stuff. If either of them were to walk around in real life like that, most people probanly wouldn't even take notice of them. But someone with a long cherry red trenchcoat? That'd make a few heads turn for sure.