What Are You Thinking?
- Thread starter NotSoAwesomeFaise
- Start date
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
I don't believe it.
To be honest, I thought that I was the only person on Earth who thought this.
(Yes, ok. You might think Jared's Joker is awful too, but I like him just fine... as you can see.)
LordOfDarkness
The Dark Avenger © †
No. Now you're the only other person on Earth. I'm just kidding...don't hurt me or the ones I love. I'll put Cable TV in your Arkham cell.
Rebel Dynasty
Creator of Microcosms
Why do I even try to take the wheel? Clearly the muses have a much better idea of how the story should play out. 
Jak
i like turtles
interesting. i disagree, but i would like to hear your thoughts.
as for what i'm thinking:
if you believe that the people who don't like STAR WARS: TFA don't like it because the protagonist is a girl...then you've missed the point entirely
LordOfDarkness
The Dark Avenger © †
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Lain
Earthbound Immortal
Y'know, that's the second time this week I've heard someone say this. And it's made me think about subjectivity, and acting and...now my brain is hurting from too much thinking. :hungover:
Angel
Is not rat, is hamster
For me, HL's joker was not balanced enough. I know there is no definitive origin story for the Joker but the one that is largely agreed upon was pretty much ignored. Don't get me wrong, Jack Nicholson's version would have been dumb for Nolan's series but Ledger was too calm, too collected to pull off how I believe the Joker would have been.
Now Jerome from Gotham, although not officially anyone, pulled off the personality of the Joker perfectly. That style would have been bang on for The Dark Knight, IMO. The right balance of being insane but a capable genius without conscience. Heath was just angry white makeup guy who was a little unhinged but not insane. Not a genius. The Joker has more finesse.
Seems to me everyone rushed to spout their adoration for Heath Ledgers Joker because he died, not necessarily because he was some amazing actor. At best, Ledger was an OK actor, nothing astonishing. I don't believe in kissing backside just because someone has kicked the bucket. He may have been right for Nolan's film but that doesn't make him a good or even passable Joker to me.
Now Jerome from Gotham, although not officially anyone, pulled off the personality of the Joker perfectly. That style would have been bang on for The Dark Knight, IMO. The right balance of being insane but a capable genius without conscience. Heath was just angry white makeup guy who was a little unhinged but not insane. Not a genius. The Joker has more finesse.
Seems to me everyone rushed to spout their adoration for Heath Ledgers Joker because he died, not necessarily because he was some amazing actor. At best, Ledger was an OK actor, nothing astonishing. I don't believe in kissing backside just because someone has kicked the bucket. He may have been right for Nolan's film but that doesn't make him a good or even passable Joker to me.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
While Heath's Joker isn't the best, (that title will always belong to Mark Hamill) he did fine with that particular incarnation of the Joker. Like, what he was going for in this Batman world, worked, even if he didn't really scream Joker.
Jared Leto's Joker however, while he is a good actor, his Joker was quite crap. Leto's Joker apparently makes his own emojis. The lamest thing you could possibly associate the Joker with. That kinda says a lot.
And I didn't think you could make the character boring, but holy crap did he find a way. The Joker isn't some edgelord tryhard who takes his Hot Topic inspired image too seriously.
The funniest thing about it, is all that ridiculous marketing BS they used to hype up and sell his Joker, for him to only be in the film for literally like 7 minutes and really offer next to nothing to it. His entirely Harley subplot was pointless.
Not to mention the way they seemed to romanticize one of the most explicitly abusive comic book relationships in history totally p!ssed me off. But that's another can of worms.
Rebel Dynasty
Creator of Microcosms
While I won't discount that there were/are probably many who jumped on the bandwagon because of his death, I will say that by and large, it wasn't the case for everyone. Most of the people I know claimed to like his interpretation of the Joker prior to Ledger's death--myself among them.
But you're right; a lot of people do tend to kiss ass without actually thinking for themselves. I'm with @Chancey289 though; Hamill is exceptional in the role--at least from an animated perspective. :laugh: Not sure how he'd fare in a live-action adaptation of the version he played, but when I think of the Joker, his version is the first that pops into my head.
CT: If I even think of picking up my book, I guarantee the effing phone will ring. :facepalm:
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I think voice actors deserve just as much respect as others because it's still acting. Their performances still make a character. And there's a reason why when I'm reading comics, in my head, I always imagine the voices of Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill as Batman and Joker.
Jak
i like turtles
the problem isn't the fact that she's a woman. the problem is that the film is overcompensating for the fact that she's a woman. the thing so many people like about star wars is that it's a "loser's fantasy". the thing people like about luke is that he's a loser who suddenly wakes up one morning and is told that he's one of the most powerful beings in the universe, and could be a great hero one day. but he has to fumble his way through two films to get there. but then there's ray. when we meet her she's already a multilingual, expert mechanic, who kicks ass, takes names, and masters the force in under a week. and i think she's put on godmode BECAUSE she's a girl. because if she started out like luke, then people (and let's be real, most of them would've been 3rd wave feminists and SJW's) would've complained that "oh, she's only made fallible because she's a girl. JJ Abrams thinks that girls can't be badass blah blah blah". and THAT'S the problem that i have. well...it's a huge part of it at least.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
So Luke piloting an X-wing with next to no pilot training, and blowing up a Death Star on his first go just gets a free pass?
I've already explained plenty of times why Rey doesn't fit the criteria of Mary Sue. In short, a skilled character, is not just a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is the kind of character that warps the fictional world around them to bend to accommodate them, and make them superior to everyone else. For the sake of them looking cool, and being better. If we ignore this, every action hero ever becomes a Mary Sue.
There's enough justification that lies within Rey's story to explain why she is able to do things she is able to do. Growing up on a harsh planet alone, made her learn significant ways to fend for herself, and being a scavenger for example, she was able to learns things about the ships she scavenged by just simply studying them.
Also, (putting aside the fact that no one honestly knows how the Force really works) her significant Force abilities to be fair, are not yet explained. It's hinted that she carries some special lineage. We'll find that out in the sequels.
So yea, I'm quite tired of dudes complaining about this stuff. It's pretty much almost like any female character who can walk home in the rain without drowning will be called a Mary Sue at some point.
Jak
i like turtles
you mean the fist point in the film trilogy where he's not completely useless...? because outside of that, in the first film, he's kind of useless.
the issue is that there is no reasons GIVEN for why ray is so skilled in so many areas. and unless i'm misunderstanding you, i believe you think that i am of the idea that this is an issue that only women fall into. men fall into this trap as well. goku is a gary sue character. classic superman is a gary sue character. django is a gary sue character. it's a trap certain male characters fall into.and the explaination for them doing all the cool things they can do even though they have no prior history of being badasses is "they're cool...they were just born REALLY ****ing cool". and it's kind of lazy writing
and as many have said before, luke grew up in a harsh environment, and he's a pussy. also, scavenging for items doesn't mean you know what they do. again, this is a poor writing device that's not just limited to star wars, but i digress.
as i said, you're not getting the issue here. and that's okay. you saw the film for it's more progressive aspects. there's a lot of films that i see as progressive, but i won't deny the fact that they're horribly flawed, or bad. suicide squad is a movie that i feel is the most progressive comic book movie since iron man 2...but much like iron man 2, it's a bad movie. and i'm not going to let the IDEAS the film has trump the quality of the film(s). and don't get me wrong, i'm not saying you can't have a female protagonist in star wars. one of the most beloved characters in the original star wars canon was jaina solo. a strong female protagonist, and one of the coolest characters to exist in star wars. sarah connor is another strong female protagonist who is arguably noted as one of if not THE greatest sci-fi hero of all time. so it has nothing to do with nerds thinking that girls can't be kick ass action heroes. it's the fact that the character of ray wasn't handled properly. also, just overall, ray aside, star wars TFA just doesn't understand the world o star wars imo.
Jak
i like turtles
OH GOD...is the door okay?
Rebel Dynasty
Creator of Microcosms
Welcome back, Rae! ^^ (Your absence was definitely noted, lol). Have a good trip?
CT: I want to do this. I want to take the chance...but I can't make the call on my own. *Sigh* Why is he always gone when these things come up?
CT: I want to do this. I want to take the chance...but I can't make the call on my own. *Sigh* Why is he always gone when these things come up?