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Were the reviews really paid or people aren't buying it?

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Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
I don't believe he said he thought DMC4 is ''something worth more than DmC''. What he said is that both games have their merits and flaws and that you can't go blow up one of the games' flaws and act like it's the worst DMC game ever.
You can read it right here: But i know by seeing things that DMC4 mechanics and design (even made by half because of Capcom rushing the team) is way better and balanced than DmC's one, and DmC itself has a much more consistent (but not that great too) story, but it's a simplistic answer that means nothing if i can't argue too long here and show some content to reinforce what i'm saying

So he didn't even say one was better than the other; he juxtaposed them. I don't see why you have to bring DMC4 into the picture anyway. Nobody even mentioned it until you decided to compare it to DmC, for some reason. It doesn't even suck; if it did, DMC3 very nearly must've sucked too, but you seem to love its gameplay. DMC4 is in many ways a step forward from DMC3, and in some departments, it goes the other way. How does that make it far worse than DMC3? I'd say, get over your hate for the game and start appreciating it for what it is instead of what you would've liked it to be.
What DMC 4 is is an obvious disservice to you and a very lackluster and lazy package. If a chef left my food uncooked and his excuse was rushing, do I just shrug it off and accept it? You're basically saying all you want is the lowest common denominator and if we had that kind of attitude then developers can just pull sh!t like DMC 4 all the time. That doesn't sound good.

DmC still has loads of potential in its combat system. Just go check out combo videos. And I appreciate that DmC was actually WORKED on. When I have different games that can be just as fun without dealing with the very obnoxious and retarded design choices for a game like DMC 4 has then why would I suffer through that stuff? I don't have to.

And maybe instead of always trying to antagonize DmC for its differences maybe YOU people should appreciate it for what it is. Which is a full experience with fantastic level design and a fun combat system to still tickle that action adventure hack n slash itch you have. It sure as hell isn't so bad that hate like this is needed. This is ridiculous.

Capcom severely screwed up with MegaMan and Resident Evil. That's a better reason to hate Capcom.
 

IncarnatedDemon

Well-known Member
Rebooting a serie is isn't risking much.

Creating a new ip is risking.

Why do you think we keep seeing constant reboot of games? Because "Reboot" is word for innovation?

No Reboot is keyword for "We can change stuff to appeal to new people, and still play on the tunes of old fans".

Megaman reboot, DmC reboot, Thief reboot, Legacy of Kain (reboot rumour), Tomb raider reboot.
and RE 6 kinda a reboot (gameplay became FPS).

Rebooting a serie isnt risking anything. Rebooting allows you to draw attention of old fans. This should provide a decent sum of money even if the game fails.

But a complete new IP would have no fans from the beginning.
That is risk in its purest form.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Like this:









I'm assuming that you're just playing dumb with me, seriously. You contradict yourself all the time, your opinions have no consistence or reasonable points whatsoever, you just say what looks better at the time. First you say that DMC is on a creativity dead end, then say that get used to DMC changings (supporting that the games changed, the ONLY real similar games are 3 and 4, 1 and 2 plays with much differences while keeping the basis of the game), then you say that you want the first DMC experience back, "variety is the spice of life" and claims to be a fan of Megaman who is basicaly the exact same thing since the very first Megaman title, even Megaman Zero is "more of the same" for the Megaman franchise, i'm a fan of the Megaman franchise too, played it since X and it's roughly the same thing until the end of Megaman Zero 4, even reusing Zero's moveset in some MMZero games.



1 - Look at the sellings, it's pretty much a failure compared to other games of the franchise. This means the fans had lost their interest in this reboot, most of them have played it with a pirated/rented copy or in a friend's house like me and decided that it was not worth the money at release and probably helping killing the old series at the same time.

2 - No one ever asked for a reboot, literally. I've never seen any DMC fan complaining that DMC was all the "same carbon copy bullshit all the time" before DmC comes out and that became an "argument" for the DmC fans. There's a lot of franchises that keep the same basis since the 90s, as i've already said in another post, and some tried to change and had commit grotesque mistakes, like the Mortal Kombat series who made the best reboot i've ever seen after likely being dead for a plentyful of years, now it's staying faithful to its roots while still bringing new things to the scene, i'm a fan of the Mortal Kombat series since i was a child.




Risk x reward, know that concept? They thought they could keep the old fanbase while drastically changing all the series to make it "more appealing to western people" (?) , they've even said that on interview. And how do you say that DmC has some effort put into it? I mean, a package of glitches, unbalanced combat, simplistic and broken features, poor boss and enemy designs is a thing that you put a lot of work? Even DMC1 released in 2001 is more well designed than DmC, just look at all the concept involving critical hits and how differently you have to tackle each monster in the game, or how the boss fights plays out. Or you're talking about effort because a new story was written? Things need change sometimes, but DMC had barely 4 titles, it was not the case, most cartoon heroes appeared in the 40s, and you're comparing it with a series that has been born in 2001, that's just plain dumb like the majority of things you try to say here on this forum.



Yes, each Megaman game is a whole new experience, variety is the spice of life. I get it. I love Megaman too, but i'm not too worried with this franchise and don't talk about it because here is a DMC forum, you know? If i wanted to talk about how Capcom killed Megaman i would search for a Megaman community, and not try to justify Capcom's retardness with another retardness.
F*ck it. I get it. You hate EVERYTHING DmC. It did nothing right according to you.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Am I the only one who thinks "remake" and "reboot" are pretty much the same exact thing. I'm not talking about vidya games. I'm talking about in general.
 

ToCool74

"Fair" DmC Skeptic
Premium
Am I the only one who thinks "remake" and "reboot" are pretty much the same exact thing. I'm not talking about vidya games. I'm talking about in general.

To be honest, I definitely think they are 2 different things.

Remake is what Resident Evil for gamecube or Castlevania Dracula X for PSP was.

Or to use a Mega Man example, what Mega Man Maverick Hunter X for the PSP was.


A Reboot is a entirely different beast as in its a fresh start rather than a update to a classic.
 

VineBigBoss

GGXRD <3
F*ck it. I get it. You hate EVERYTHING DmC. It did nothing right according to you.

Stop being a crybaby, i've already admmited DmCs redeeming qualities a long ago here on this forum, and i say all the time where you can find them and how i had some fun with the game. You're the one that just cannot see anything good in the old DMC series and just bash it out for nothing, without reasonable points or content in-game showing how flawed DMC4, for example, is. I understand too that NT is a new company still learning how to make their games, DmC is a pretty good game considering that they are new and accepted the herculean task to make a DMC game, but if you want to compare, that's it: DmC has a very flawled design in many levels compared even to the first DMC entry, it starts with DE unbalancing, pass through moronic AI and ends on the bosses crappy and "please kill me" design. The combat is still funny and makes up a good enjoyment for a casual play, it was good to play DmC in the break time of my training on SSFIV with my friend, the game was well conceived in his artistic point, i dislike social commentary on games because i hear this kind of bullshit everyday on my Facebook, but still it has a pretty decent story (and much more coherent than the old series, i must admit, at least it has less plotholes and is better explained).
 

IncarnatedDemon

Well-known Member
This is just my perception of the word "reboot", i may be wrong.

They say that rebooting is done to "breathe fresh air into" a serie.
But my perception of this has not been that.

I've perceived that companies reboot for sake of using a existing serie because it has a fanbase to get a decent amount of money + also count in money from new people.

Reason why i believe this is:
1) Cant you breathe fresh air into a serie with a spiritual successor?
or
a spin off?

Look at MGR
Considering story is a important aspect of Solid.

From a gameplay perspective MGR is pretty fresh ideas for Metal Gear serie. You disagree? Well MGS4 Vamp vs Raiden cutscene proves that Hack and Slash suites Raiden very well.

And Kojima has even talked to people (PG and others) to try make Metal Gear Rising 2 : Gray Fox

So i praise MGR for it's gameplay, to take a concept of two characters (cyborgs: Raiden and Gray fox) and put them into a hack and slash game that works well.

ON TOP OF THAT: MGR has not replaced the main serie: SOLID.


That's not to say that reboots cant be successful or good. THEY CAN.
But so can new IPs and spin offs. Which makes me ask "What makes reboot so much different from a new ip or a spin off?"
My answer to that? Not much, other than a company wanting to use a fanbase for money.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
To be honest, I definitely think they are 2 different things.

Remake is what Resident Evil for gamecube or Castlevania Dracula X for PSP was.

Or to use a Mega Man example, what Mega Man Maverick Hunter X for the PSP was.


A Reboot is a entirely different beast as in its a fresh start rather than a update to a classic.
Just seems like the word "reboot" popped up only in the recent decade. Because anything else before was basically saying hey, we want to redo it but update it a bit as well. Yep, that's remaking it.
 

Lionheart

Solid Ocelot
What DMC 4 is is an obvious disservice to you and a very lackluster and lazy package. If a chef left my food uncooked and his excuse was rushing, do I just shrug it off and accept it? You're basically saying all you want is the lowest common denominator and if we had that kind of attitude then developers can just pull sh!t like DMC 4 all the time. That doesn't sound good.

Yes, yes, we get it, backtracking. Well, guess what? DMC3 had its share of that, too. Not much, but it was noticeable to the point that it got annoying sometimes. The analogy of a cook leaving stuff unfinished is very poor. We already got a lot out of Nero's campaign, so I'd almost call Dante's a bonus. It's like there were two missions too many in DMC4. Lowest common denominator does not mean what you think it means, I think. Lowest common denominator means the most common opinion of the masses, or (usually) the masses themselves. You can't call DMC4's qualities that. It just doesn't make sense.

DmC still has loads of potential in its combat system. Just go check out combo videos. And I appreciate that DmC was actually WORKED on. When I have different games that can be just as fun without dealing with the very obnoxious and retarded design choices for a game like DMC 4 has then why would I suffer through that stuff? I don't have to.

No offense, but I saw the most impressive combo videos of DmC, and they're no better than DMC3. Slightly less impressive, I'd say. It's a miracle they managed to pull it off at all. DmC's control scheme just isn't intuitive for me. Too many buttons to press and hold at the same time, but I'll admit that's just me.

And maybe instead of always trying to antagonize DmC for its differences maybe YOU people should appreciate it for what it is. Which is a full experience with fantastic level design and a fun combat system to still tickle that action adventure hack n slash itch you have. It sure as hell isn't so bad that hate like this is needed. This is ridiculous.

Alright, this is getting ridiculous, sorry to say. Nobody's attacking you or DmC. DmC is a fine game: overall, it's not worse than the previous DMCs, and it's not better either. I get that it's different, and nobody's saying it's worse for being different. It's just not accepted by everyone because a lot of the original elements of DMC were lost. If I happen to like the Japanese anime-like style of DMC4, then where's the problem in that? If I happen to dislike DmC's characters, again, what's the problem? Specifically, what's your problem with my and others' opinions? You can't change them, just like I can't get you to like DMC4 Dante (IIRC, you pretty much hated him). So be it. Are we suddenly not allowed to criticize DmC? Does criticizing it mean we think it's a bad game? Of course not.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
This is just my perception of the word "reboot", i may be wrong.

They say that rebooting is done to "breathe fresh air into" a serie.
But my perception of this has not been that.

I've perceived that companies reboot for sake of using a existing serie because it has a fanbase to get a decent amount of money + also count in money from new people.

Reason why i believe this is:
1) Cant you breathe fresh air into a serie with a spiritual successor?
or
a spin off?

Look at MGR
Considering story is a important aspect of Solid.

From a gameplay perspective MGR is pretty fresh ideas for Metal Gear serie. You disagree? Well MGS4 Vamp vs Raiden cutscene proves that Hack and Slash suites Raiden very well.

And Kojima has even talked to people (PG and others) to try make Metal Gear Rising 2 : Gray Fox

So i praise MGR for it's gameplay, to take a concept of two characters (cyborgs: Raiden and Gray fox) and put them into a hack and slash game that works well.

ON TOP OF THAT: MGR has not replaced the main serie: SOLID.


That's not to say that reboots cant be successful or good. THEY CAN.
But so can new IPs and spin offs. Which makes me ask "What makes reboot so much different from a new ip or a spin off?"
My answer to that? Not much, other than a company wanting to use a fanbase for money.
You've never even played the Metal Gear Solid series and I saw you admit that. Of course MGR is a spinoff. Doesn't mean that's the kind of game most Metal Gear fans were asking for. And also when a Cyborg Ninja game was brought up, not many people think of Raiden. We think of Gray Fox. No one ever thought MGR was going to replace MGS. MGS 5 was the one really in high demand though since it was confirmed before we even saw Rising.

I would personally love a video game based on Volgin. Volgin is freaking awesome and one of my favorite Metal Gear characters. Hell, do a Cobra Unit game. That would be amazing.
 

IncarnatedDemon

Well-known Member
Let me argument more for why rebooting isn't that big risk.

What was the foundation for DmC?
DMC

What does this mean from a business perspective?
Less time on working out gameplay concepts or characters or story.

What was foundation for DmC: VD
DMC 3 Special edition

POINT: Over 90% of the gameplay you see in DmC is the same you see in DMC 3 and 4
This saves time.


If you had to create a new game from scratch it would be more time consuming. ESPECIALLY for gameplay, which is core of video games.
And as i pointed out the core of DmC was pretty much laid out, there was little confusion as to what the gameplay of DmC were to be like.

Ninja theory looked at DMC gameplay and noted "We must reproduce that".



BUT WHAT...if a studio had nothing as foundation for a game i.e a new ip?
You know what that would lead to?
1) More time needed
2) A gameplay foundation that is flawed.


JUST LOOK at Metal Gear Rising - a new ip:
It has alot of things i wish it wasnt there :
shallow stealth
bad equipment/weapon switching
Grenades/Rocket launchers that are efficient for fast paced hack and slash
not that deep combo system
etc


But with a reboot:
You know what your going to make: especially for the gameplay.


Speaking of reboots: Capcom is "going back to roots" of RE aka milking RE for money with a Resident Evil horror reboot. After Resident FPS failed they will do this lol.
 

IncarnatedDemon

Well-known Member
You've never even played the Metal Gear Solid series and I saw you admit that. Of course MGR is a spinoff. Doesn't mean that's the kind of game most Metal Gear fans were asking for. And also when a Cyborg Ninja game was brought up, not many people think of Raiden. We think of Gray Fox. No one ever thought MGR was going to replace MGS. MGS 5 was the one really in high demand though since it was confirmed before we even saw Rising.

I would personally love a video game based on Volgin. Volgin is freaking awesome and one of my favorite Metal Gear characters. Hell, do a Cobra Unit game. That would be amazing.
Actually i played Metal Gear Solid game. On ps2.

I recall Liquid Snake talking about mother Russia something.
Long time ago. I also recall i enjoyed the game (had it borrowed).
I later played as Raiden where u had to jump off the edge to not get noticed by guards (i hated that part lol).

And ive watched alot of MGS4 cutscenes.


How me not having played MGS much makes my points less valid is beyond me...
I've heard from MGS fans "Story is great part of Solid".
and read people describe MGR as "Cutscenes in MGR are shorter than Solid "

I am a bit aware of Solid. It seems Story is a great reason for what made Solid so fun.


And i didnt say reboots cant be good:
That's not to say that reboots cant be successful or good. THEY CAN.
But so can new IPs and spin offs. Which makes me ask "What makes reboot so much different from a new ip or a spin off?"
 

Lionheart

Solid Ocelot
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is a totally different story. It's not a reboot, it's not a reimagining, it's a spin-off. It leaves the old series intact, since it isn't even a Metal Gear Solid game (notice the word Rising instead of Solid). I don't see why you'd find it such a travesty. Don't want to play it, then don't: you've still got MGS Ground Zeroes and MGS5 to look forward to. In DmC's case, you are not presented with a choice. Well, actually, there is a choice, namely: play DmC or stop playing Devil May Cry altogether (since DMC is likely not going to return). How you could compare MGR with DmC is a mystery to me.
 

IncarnatedDemon

Well-known Member
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is a totally different story. It's not a reboot, it's not a reimagining, it's a spin-off. It leaves the old series intact, since it isn't even a Metal Gear Solid game (notice the word Rising instead of Solid). I don't see why you'd find it such a travesty. Don't want to play it, then don't. In DmC's case, you are not presented with a choice. Well, actually, there is a choice, namely: play DmC or stop playing Devil May Cry altogether (since DMC is likely not going to return). How you could compare MGR with DmC is a mystery to me.
Who are you adressing? Me or Chancey?
 

Alittleacorn

Smile it confuses people
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is a totally different story. It's not a reboot, it's not a reimagining, it's a spin-off. It leaves the old series intact, since it isn't even a Metal Gear Solid game (notice the word Rising instead of Solid). I don't see why you'd find it such a travesty. Don't want to play it, then don't. In DmC's case, you are not presented with a choice. Well, actually, there is a choice, namely: play DmC or stop playing Devil May Cry altogether (since DMC is likely not going to return). How you could compare MGR with DmC is a mystery to me.
I get annoyed when people do that, the only way MGR could connect is if DmC had really been a DMC spin-off with Nero, or if MGR was really a reboot starring Solid Snake that went right back to the beginning with a fresh take.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Chancey. Sorry about that :p
I never compared MGR to DmC. I'm a massive Metal Gear Solid fan so you think I cared much about a game starring a character I hate with a passion that also wasn't a stealth focused Metal Gear title? It's the DMC fans who kept wanting to compare it to DmC simply because it was developed by P*. I swear butthurt DMC fans gave Rising more attention than Metal Gear fans. I noticed DMC fans on Metal Gear facebook pages bringing in their hatred for the reboot with a response of so many Metal Gear fans just going "Um, no one cares about Devil May Cry, this is a Metal Gear page."
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Actually i played Metal Gear Solid game. On ps2.

I recall Liquid Snake talking about mother Russia something.
Long time ago. I also recall i enjoyed the game (had it borrowed).
I later played as Raiden where u had to jump off the edge to not get noticed by guards (i hated that part lol).

And ive watched alot of MGS4 cutscenes.


How me not having played MGS much makes my points less valid is beyond me...
I've heard from MGS fans "Story is great part of Solid".
and read people describe MGR as "Cutscenes in MGR are shorter than Solid "

I am a bit aware of Solid. It seems Story is a great reason for what made Solid so fun.


And i didnt say reboots cant be good:
You played MGS 2. Not the original so you wouldn't know what the hell's going on even more than the fans who played the original that also didn't know what the hell was going on at that time. You also had Raiden who would just whine like a baby and get in arguments with Rose every 5 minutes basically. Being REALLY FREAKING ANNOYING.

And how the hell do you expect to grasp anything Metal Gear Solid by just watching cut scenes and of MGS 4 so you sure as hell wouldn't understand a single thing in that game unless you played the previous titles. MGS 4 was a conclusion to Solid Snake's story.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is a totally different story. It's not a reboot, it's not a reimagining, it's a spin-off. It leaves the old series intact, since it isn't even a Metal Gear Solid game (notice the word Rising instead of Solid). I don't see why you'd find it such a travesty. Don't want to play it, then don't: you've still got MGS Ground Zeroes and MGS5 to look forward to. In DmC's case, you are not presented with a choice. Well, actually, there is a choice, namely: play DmC or stop playing Devil May Cry altogether (since DMC is likely not going to return). How you could compare MGR with DmC is a mystery to me.
Rising is the future canonically to the Metal Gear story line. And my biggest issue with Metal Gear Rising: Revengence (I don't think that's a real word) is how it's a Metal Gear in name only basically. Decent hack n slasher but, as a Metal Gear titles it falls flat on its a$$. It really lacks that directorial flare Kojima brings and is just "style over substance" That's not Metal Gear. Metal Gear is both.

And when a Cyborg Ninja game is brought up, we were all asking for Gray Fox. Been asking for Gray Fox since Metal Gear Solid 1. But they go ahead and decide to NOT make the game Kojima had in mind and cast the still pretty much universally hated character in the lead role.

Rising was just wasting time. As far as the Metal Gear crowd is concerned, The Phantom Pain is what was really on everyone's mind. That's why people didn't want Rising. They wanted the next Metal Gear Solid. The one Kojima was making himself.
 
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