Vergil vs Sephiroth (Death Battle)

[Demi-fiend]

Hope Vergil gets a second chance against him once DMC5 ever comes to play. He needs an upgrade.

Vergil needs to be more powerful than Dante in the next game.

He needs to be made into a credible threat against anyone, even DMC4/2 Dante.

The power of the Sparda sword should be taken from Trish and given to a host that will use it to its maximum potential.

Trish can always borrow one of Dante's many other weapons. In fact, they can be split up evenly between the five characters who will eventually fight against Vergil in each of his boss forms.

 

[V's patron]

The animation for vergil was off to me but it was a fun fight.

Vergil needs some new tricks

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

The animation for vergil was off to me but it was a fun fight.

Vergil needs some new tricks

His cost wasn't animated well but otherwise it was a good representation of him, he even had the distortion effect during his Devil Trigger.

 

[Lain]

I must say, while the animation wasn't perfect, it's a massive step up from the previous episode. Clearly they were saving the budget for this one. :wink:

I do hope that they do one of those "Questions Answered" videos for this fight. They've been doing them for the last couple of videos and I hope the trend continues as they're quite interesting.

 

[Lain]

Ask and ye shall receive. Hope this answers any questions that y'all have.

 

[Demi-fiend]

 

[Veloran]

Ask and ye shall receive. Hope this answers any questions that y'all have.

Rundown on their reasoning there? I don't have time to watch it.

 

[Lain]

Rundown on their reasoning there? I don't have time to watch it.

Well, their "reasoning" was already explained in the actual fight video itself. But as for the Q&A session, I'll sum them up:

Spoiler: Questions are as follows...

• Q) Where was Force Edge? A) During the brief time that Vergil wields it, he didn't display and extra feats (due to not awakening its true form) that would have changed the outcome of the battle.
• Q) Lore says that Yamato can cut through anything, why didn't it cut through Masamune? A) As explained in the fight video, the only time that Yamato is said to cut anything is in the weapons file for DMC3:SE when evidence (such as in cutscenes) points to the contrary.
• Q) Why isn't Sephiroth left handed? A) Meta-answer, games are inconsistent and sometimes show him using his right hand to hold it. Real answer is that the motion capture had already started filming it and it was too late to go back and change it.
• Q) Doesn't Sephiroth need to be in "Safer-form" to use Supernova? A) Meta-answer, subsequent depictions of Sephiroth say no. Real answer, they were going to have him go into Safer-form, but trying to animate it was proving impossible so they gave up.

"Why is the theme of this episode killing babies?" Had me dying.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Even though Vergil lost, I still enjoyed this fight, but it was too short. Also, I do have to wonder why Force Edge wasn't included, Dante had Yamato for the Bayonetta fight.
As for Nelo Angelo, is that really a stronger form? Is it even a form? Cause I thought it was just Vergil wearing armor.

You know which fight they should redo? Master Chief vs Doomguy, I did agree with the result of the first one. But I think if they used the Doom Slayer from the latest game, it would be a much closer fight (Not to mention badass as hell if they do it in 3D animation)

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

As a huge Vergil fan, I absolutely agree with this result tbh. Most people claim they downplayed Vergil but I disagree considering how much they gave him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Veloran]

I disagree considering how much they gave him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think claiming Yamato can't even cut a rocket launcher is giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

I don't think claiming Yamato can't even cut a rocket launcher is giving him the benefit of the doubt.

And people saying this makes me wonder if they have actually watched Vergils section of the video or did they simply skip straight to fight itself(which tbh I wouldn't blame you considering Screwattack shoddy research). They scaled Vergil off DMC4 Dante(you know a version of Dante that's significantly stronger than the one Vergil fought against and eventually lost to) and on top of that they gave Vergil that dubious raindrop feat that's pretty already been disproved by the very first boss fight you have against Vergil in 3. They also utilized feats from Reboot Vergil such as dimension hopping and so forth. With the exception of Force Edge(a weapon that would be useless since he never unlocked its power like Dante did in 1) and Nelo Angelo( a form that was bestowed upon by Mundus ), I would argue they were pretty generous in thier portrayal of Vergil.

 

[Veloran]

And people saying this makes me wonder if they have actually watched Vergils section of the video or did they simply skip straight to fight itself(which tbh I wouldn't blame you considering Screwattack shoddy research). They scaled Vergil off DMC4 Dante(you know a version of Dante that's significantly stronger than the one Vergil fought against and eventually lost to) and on top of that they gave Vergil that dubious raindrop feat that's pretty already been disproved by the very first boss fight you have against Vergil in 3. They also utilized feats from Reboot Vergil such as dimension hopping and so forth. With the exception of Force Edge(a weapon that would be useless since he never unlocked its power like Dante did in 1) and Nelo Angelo( a form that was bestowed upon by Mundus ), I would argue they were pretty generous in thier portrayal of Vergil.

Again, saying that Yamato cannot even cut a rocket launcher isn't being "generous". Nevermind the fact that they downplayed his regeneration, admitted that he was MUCH faster than Sephiroth but just played it off, didn't give him Force Edge even though it's a stellar ranged weapon all on it's own, barely had him use Summoned Swords even though we've seen that Sephiroth can't handle such attacks, hardly had him use his instantaneous teleport, ignored both Beowulf and Yamato's directly stated and SEEN abilities, and said that he could cut and travel through dimensions but had Sephiroth survive a Judgement Cut and had Vergil stupidly stand still to be hit by an attack that according to their logic he could have easily avoided.

The episode was basically them giving a cavalcade of reasons why Vergil should win and then ignoring it in favor of throwing Final Fantasy fans a bone for once.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

Again, saying that Yamato cannot even cut a rocket launcher isn't being "generous".

Like I said before considering they scaled him off of a version of Dante that was significantly stronger then the one he lost too plus giving him feats from his reboot counterpart. Also as shown in 4 yamato itself has struggled to cut clean through certain objects:

(11:33) Dante himself struggled somewhat to pierce the Savior gemstone with yamato.

Nevermind the fact that they downplayed his regeneration, admitted that he was MUCH faster than Sephiroth but just played it off, didn't give him Force Edge even though it's a stellar ranged weapon all on it's own,

They didn't downplay his regeneration unless you seriously think Dante and Vergil can survive a super-nova exploding in his face. Yes was faster but not enough that it could make a difference. I repeat Force edge would be pointless since Vergil can't unlock its true power like Dante.

barely had him use Summoned Swords even though we've seen that Sephiroth can't handle such attacks, hardly had him use his instantaneous teleport, ignored both Beowulf and Yamato's directly stated and SEEN abilities, and said that he could cut and travel through dimensions but had Sephiroth survive a Judgement Cut and had Vergil stupidly stand still to be hit by an attack that according to their logic he could have easily avoided.

Show me proof that Sephiroth can't handle summoned swords even though I'm pretty sure he can. You do know that Sephiroth used an illusion against Vergil to stall him while he prepared the Super Nova right? Also Vergil was able to slice out of the dimension if you paid close attention.

The episode was basically them giving a cavalcade of reasons why Vergil should win and then ignoring it in favor of throwing Final Fantasy fans a bone for once.

Or it could simply be that due to Vergils small appearance in DMC he lacked the proper feats and hax to counter most of what Sephiroth had against him.

 

[Veloran]

Dante himself struggled somewhat to pierce the Savior gemstone with yamato.

He pierced it no problem, the issue was shoving it all the way into the core - Preferably without impaling Nero in the process. That very video also shows Dante cutting a massive demonic gateway clean through by just swinging Yamato through the air.

They didn't downplay his regeneration

They did. They cited the end of DMC3 for how his regeneration could be deteriorated and overcome, despite the fact that the scene they used was Vergil being cut cleanly in half after being worn down through two fights with Dante, a fall into an abyss, a fight with Arkham wielding Sparda's power, a final fight with Dante where Dante beats him, and Vergil still completely heals instantaneously from a cut that should have bisected him. Then afterwards he fell into the bottom of the underworld and still healed.

Hell, in DMC1 Dante is completely consumed by the flames of Ifrit, which are hotter than a volcano and can overcome frost so powerful that it's colder than absolute zero, the point at which all motion stops, and heals so quickly from the ordeal that he doesn't suffer any injury at all even as it's happening.

unless you seriously think Dante and Vergil can survive a super-nova exploding in his face.

Sephiroth's supernova literally cannot kill anybody. That's how it works.

Yes was faster but not enough that it could make a difference.

By their own estimates, Vergil in DT is at least six plus times faster than Sephiroth, probably more. Even in his human form, he should be three times as fast at a minimum. That's not even counting his instantaneous teleportation.

I repeat Force edge would be pointless since Vergil can't unlock its true power like Dante.

He may not have it's true power, but what he can do with it's base form alone makes it worth having. Denying it to Vergil is restricting a huge array of movement and attack options.

Show me proof that Sephiroth can't handle summoned swords even though I'm pretty sure he can.

He couldn't even properly defend against a volley of fireballs in Crisis Core.

Vergil's Summoned Swords are like that, but on crack, constantly happening throughout the entire fight, and filling him full of puncture wounds instead of engulfing him in fire.

You do know that Sephiroth used an illusion against Vergil to stall him while he prepared the Super Nova right?

Which is irrelevant, because by their own logic not only should he have escaped the supernova before it ever touched him, but the damage he took should not have made it possible for Sephiroth to finish him. Moreover the fight should have been over long before that point, as Sephiroth should have been completely gibbed by a single Judgment Cut. Also, they said that he is weak to illusions, despite him having completely shattered one in the DMC3 manga.

Also Vergil was able to slice out of the dimension if you paid close attention.

Yes, but he still let Sephiroth monolog on and stupidly stood in the supernova before doing it.

Or it could simply be that due to Vergils small appearance in DMC he lacked the proper feats and hax to counter most of what Sephiroth had against him.

Even his short appearances have demonstrated that Vergil has more than enough tools to bring down Sephiroth.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

He pierced it no problem, the issue was shoving it all the way into the core - Preferably without impaling Nero in the process. That very video also shows Dante cutting a massive demonic gateway clean through by just swinging Yamato through the air.

The very same video showed him somewhat struggling to push it through which wouldn't happen if it ignored durability like people claim it does. Also those very same hell gate was easily destroyed by Dante with Gilgamesh so they're not as durable as you're making them out to be.

They did. They cited the end of DMC3 for how his regeneration could be deteriorated and overcome, despite the fact that the scene they used was Vergil being cut cleanly in half after being worn down through two fights with Dante, a fall into an abyss, a fight with Arkham wielding Sparda's power, a final fight with Dante where Dante beats him, and Vergil still completely heals instantaneously from a cut that should have bisected him. Then afterwards he fell into the bottom of the underworld and still healed.
Hell, in DMC1 Dante is completely consumed by the flames of Ifrit, which are hotter than a volcano and can overcome frost so powerful that it's colder than absolute zero, the point at which all motion stops, and heals so quickly from the ordeal that he doesn't suffer any injury at all even as it's happening.

Or it could be that due ps2 limitations they weren't able to actually show the damage, heck even when Lady was wounded by Arkham she didn't any visible injury after unless you're implying Lady who's a normal human has a healing factor as well. Also maybe it occurred to you that the Super Nova over taxxed his healing factor to the point where it wasn't able to compensate and any more damage would prove fatale. Plus Sephiroth also has heartless angel that can reduce his enemies HP to 1 on top of having toad and petrification stuff Vergil has no counter for.

Sephiroth's supernova literally cannot kill anybody. That's how it works.

You're partially right it didn't kill Vergil in the fight as it simply overtaxed his regeneration for a killing blow.

By their own estimates, Vergil in DT is at least six plus times faster than Sephiroth, probably more. Even in his human form, he should be three times as fast at a minimum. That's not even counting his instantaneous teleportation.

Like I said yes Vergil was faster but not enough to make difference and even then we really do know how much of a boost DT gives tbh.

He may not have it's true power, but what he can do with it's base form alone makes it worth having. Denying it to Vergil is restricting a huge array of movement and attack options.

Doesn't matter how good Vergil can swing the blade if he can't use its full potential. In other words the sword is useless to.

He couldn't even properly defend against a volley of fireballs in Crisis Core.

Vergil's Summoned Swords are like that, but on crack, constantly happening throughout the entire fight, and filling him full of puncture wounds instead of engulfing him in fire.

Find it funny how you also forgot to mention Genesis fire attack had absolutely no affect on Sephiroth at all, So preseumbly summoned swords wouldn't affect him at all either.

Which is irrelevant, because by their own logic not only should he have escaped the supernova before it ever touched him, but the damage he took should not have made it possible for Sephiroth to finish him. Moreover the fight should have been over long before that point, as Sephiroth should have been completely gibbed by a single Judgment Cut. Also, they said that he is weak to illusions, despite him having completely shattered one in the DMC3 manga.

Those same illusion he encountered in the manga were made Arkham correct? Someone who is a complete small fry compared to someone like Sephiroth.

Yes, but he still let Sephiroth monolog on and stupidly stood in the supernova before doing it.

You did see that the Super Nova was coming at him at light speeds right? Like the video showed it disintegrating planets in mere seconds so even if Vergil knew hr would'nt be fast enough to dodge it.

Even his short appearances have demonstrated that Vergil has more than enough tools to bring down Sephiroth.

No, Vergil short appearabce showed he lacked the proper hax that Sephiroth had to make his healing factor irrlavent plus Sephirth other forms like Safer Sephiroth and Bizzaro Sephiroth.

 

[Veloran]

The very same video showed him somewhat struggling to push it through which wouldn't happen if it ignored durability like people claim it does.

Struggling is an overstatement, but either way you don't know the specifics of the situation to a degree worthy of ignoring Yamato's directly stated and seen abilities.

Also those very same hell gate was easily destroyed by Dante with Gilgamesh so they're not as durable as you're making them out to be.

How is this an argument? "Dante destroyed one of the gates with a powerful Devil Arm, so that means Yamato is weak!" Like what? Him breaking a gate with Gilgamesh isn't evidence of anything, particularly because Dante didn't just punch the air and destroy the gate like what happened with him swinging Yamato. Moreover, the Fortuna gate was many times the size of that one.

Or it could be that due ps2 limitations they weren't able to actually show the damage,

Except there are multiple points in DMC3 where battle damage is shown. Moreover this isn't just some flesh wound, this is him being completely bisected while being extremely fatigued, and he still gets back up.

heck even when Lady was wounded by Arkham she didn't any visible injury

Yes, she did, which is why one of the very next cutscenes starts with her having bandaged the wound.

Also maybe it occurred to you that the Super Nova over taxxed his healing factor to the point where it wasn't able to compensate and any more damage would prove fatale.

There's no evidence that would be the case, it's a pure guess towards that being the maximum damage threshold his healing would end at.

Plus Sephiroth also has heartless angel that can reduce his enemies HP to 1

So? Reducing someone's "health" to "1" doesn't account for much when they have regeneration as extreme as Vergil's.

on top of having toad and petrification stuff Vergil has no counter for.

Sephiroth never uses such abilities. And even if he did, he would still need to hit Vergil first.

You're partially right it didn't kill Vergil in the fight as it simply overtaxed his regeneration for a killing blow.

There is no evidence his regeneration even can be overtaxed and stopped in that way.

Like I said yes Vergil was faster but not enough to make difference and even then we really do know how much of a boost DT gives tbh.

Three times as fast isn't enough to make a difference? And as for DT Death Battle said it increases his strength, speed and healing by "several times", so six times as fast is a conservative estimate and it could easily be twelve or even twenty-four plus times as fast.

By the logic Death Battle put forward it doesn't make any sense that this was even a battle to begin with considering how drastically Vergil out-speeds Sephiroth.

Doesn't matter how good Vergil can swing the blade if he can't use its full potential. In other words the sword is useless to.

Again, how is this an argument? Even without it's power unlocked Force Edge gives Vergil a tracking ranged attack that he can fight independently of, instant and crazy powerful beam attacks, a vortex that sucks in and cuts up anything in it's radius, and a series of attack and movement options exclusive to it that he doesn't really use with anything else. It's absolutely worth having, and I'd bet the primary reason they didn't give it to him was simply to cut down on animation.

Find it funny how you also forgot to mention Genesis fire attack had absolutely no affect on Sephiroth at all, So preseumbly summoned swords wouldn't affect him at all either.

The point is that Sephiroth could not dodge or block all of Genesis' fireballs, and Vergil's Summoned Swords are blatantly faster than those fireballs, can similarly attack from any angle, and can be just as numerous. Therefore, it stands to reason that Sephiroth could not dodge or block all of Vergil's Summoned Swords either.

However, the idea that Genesis' fireballs and Vergil's Summoned Swords would have the same effect on Sephiroth is a faulty analogy fallacy, because while we can compare them in terms of projectiles, we cannot compare them in terms of power and potency of attack.

Those same illusion he encountered in the manga were made Arkham correct? Someone who is a complete small fry compared to someone like Sephiroth.

No, they weren't made by Arkham, they were made by an ancient demon which had been stripped of it's name and imprisoned by Sparda.

Also they're not equivalent, because the demon launched a mental attack within Vergil's mind while Sephiroth's illusions are (thought to be), apparitions taking place in reality.

You did see that the Super Nova was coming at him at light speeds right? Like the video showed it disintegrating planets in mere seconds so even if Vergil knew hr would'nt be fast enough to dodge it.

So was Sephiroth also talking at light speeds before it hit? Did Vergil need to stand in the supernova for multiple seconds before escaping? I think no to both points.

No,

I disagree. Vergil had everything he needed to beat Sephiroth. Even at the base of it, Sephiroth has no defense against an attack like a Judgment Cut, which Vergil can chain together with other moves seamlessly.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Considering what they said about Sephiroth, that he's basically immortal and he can always come back and never really die, I don't see how he could lose this Death Battle.

Like, no matter how much one thinks Vergil surpasses Sephiroth, eventually he's gonna get tired, progressively weaker and die, whereas Sephiroth can just keep coming back fresh as a rose. At least based on what the guys said in the presentation, I know nothing about FF.

 

[Lain]

Considering what they said about Sephiroth, that he's basically immortal and he can always come back and never really die, I don't see how he could lose this Death Battle.

I do recall them saying in one of their live sessions that immortality isn't a guaranteed victory and that failure to continue fighting is treated the same as if they had died.

Especially since it took Sephiroth years to rebuild his body after his first death.