Vergil and the gun (Spoilers...maybe a plothole.)

[darkmanifest]

That just...it killed it for me, because stuff stopped making sense, and stuff was done way too conveniently to have things play out. During the movie I seriously thought of so many better ways that things could have played out and still had the intended effect, but nope...it was just...very badly done.

This is really interesting to me, because that's exactly how I feel about how some parts of DmC (and previous DMC games) played out. I like to write, so I usually notice all those little conveniences that are necessary to move a story along, and I try to think of ways to improve them if they strike me as overly obvious, abrupt, or just plain unnecessary. I wasn't bothered by Cloverfield because I expected it to be laughable (I'm a disaster movie junkie, so I've seen some whoppers in my day), but one can't be cynical all the time.

With DmC, suddenly there's no common sense that Vergil wouldn't speak about such things unless they knew they were in a secure-ish location, or that maybe, juuuust maybe, The Order jacked the security feeds. Because it doesn't explicitly tell us so, suddenly it never happened? Or that a dude would get angry enough to punt someone through a building - and that was even explicitly told to us, that Mundus gets angry easily and makes mistakes because of it. Those could seem convenient, but at the same time, they still fit within the story being told.

Well, that's what happens when a story leaves a point up to audience assumption, you get mixed reactions, because it didn't see fit to cover its butt with a throwaway exchange like "Hey, is it safe to talk here?" "Yes, I've secured the location". I'm sure you feel it was unnecessary to do so, but you're willing to assume the best of the story.

Mundus's reaction doesn't fit his overall behavior even in the story's own parameters. He refuses to leave his tower for any reason at any other point of the game, no matter how angry he gets. Not when his power structure is being dismantled. Not when his child is taken hostage. Not when his child is murdered. Not when Dante stages a brazen invasion on his stronghold. He just won't budge. Yet when Dante proves stupid enough to come strutting into his base of operations where Mundus is most powerful, instead of drawing from his power source and pinning Dante to the floor to pluck his head off like a grape, he bull rushes him out of the building. That's a "durr" moment if I've ever seen one.

It's not a special dig against DmC. You ever read the Evil Overlord List? I'm sure what Mundus did is on it somewhere. Villains becoming stupid at a critical moment because that's the only way the heroes can win is a time-honored cliche, even in otherwise excellent stories.

But, whatever, people can feel how they want to feel, but at that point, why the hell stick around? No one's mind is gonna be changed, and if you have little to no interest...there's gotta be something better to do that talk continuously about it. I'm just tired of people hanging around here who just don't like what the whole point of this side of the forum is for. If I went around to Cloverfield forums bitching about the movie, I'd just be an asshole who could be doing so much more things with my time.

A series is different from a one-shot movie with no previous canon. Nobody's got much invested in the latter, but we've all got that favorite series that we dislike some parts about, so we want to talk about it, and since DmC is the latest entry, this is the most appropriate forum to talk about said entry. I've been discussing DMC since it was only two games, so none of this friction a new to me.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

But...DmC has no previous canon...it was its own...

 

[Macabre]

Yeah, but my complete lack of suspension for Cloverfield is based completely on the knowledge of the military works, and how retarded they were being all throughout the movie - I hate Cloverfield because the monster only wins because of a completely retarded military and the completely inconsistent monster itself; blasting the monster further into an evacuation zone, an evacuation helicopter circling around to watch the monster instead of evacuating from the area, and the lumbering monster somehow sneaking up on the heroes in the middle of an open patch in Central Park, and choosing a nuclear option after only a night's worth of fighting, oh, and how a nuclear blast didn't completely wipe the recording we were watching. That just...it killed it for me, because stuff stopped making sense, and stuff was done way too conveniently to have things play out. During the movie I seriously thought of so many better ways that things could have played out and still had the intended effect, but nope...it was just...very badly done.

Hey, it's J.J. Abrams. That dude only cares about big emotions and spectacle. Did you see Star Trek? Nero dropped his derpy planet destroying drill laser in the middle of Frisco harbour instead of dry land purely for the sake of visual spectacle. Isn't it going to be a little awkward to keep that hole open for you to drop Red Matter into when the Ocean floods in when you turn your laser off? I wonder what the dilution index of Red Matter is...would it just sink through dense tidal waters, or dilute into the ocean like red Tang...

With DmC, suddenly there's no common sense that Vergil wouldn't speak about such things unless they knew they were in a secure-ish location, or that maybe, juuuust maybe, The Order jacked the security feeds. Because it doesn't explicitly tell us so, suddenly it never happened? Or that a dude would get angry enough to punt someone through a building - and that was even explicitly told to us, that Mundus gets angry easily and makes mistakes because of it. Those could seem convenient, but at the same time, they still fit within the story being told.

The problem is that there are work-arounds for these plot problems that would only take a little bit of fine tuning on a script level in order to straighten them out. Vergil doesn't need to be loudly discussing everything about their status as Nephilim in public in order for the scene to work, and the Informant could have simply recognized Dante because he's public enemy number one to sound the alarm. Instead of just standing still in front of Mundas and hoping really hard that he throws Dante out of the building then jumps out to finish him off, Dante could lure Mundas out of the building while taunting him, desperately evading Mundas's attacks and drawing him away from the Hell Gate. It could have even been playable, providing a new and unique challenge that the player hasn't had yet in the game and demonstrating how terrifyingly powerful Mundas is. In it's current form it just looks like Dante and Vergil took a gigantic risk for no reason and with no consideration for how it could be averted. It fits with Dante because he's meant to be an imbecile, but Vergil is a genius according to his backstory.

But, whatever, people can feel how they want to feel, but at that point, why the hell stick around? No one's mind is gonna be changed, and if you have little to no interest...there's gotta be something better to do that talk continuously about it. I'm just tired of people hanging around here who just don't like what the whole point of this side of the forum is for. If I went around to Cloverfield forums bitching about the movie, I'd just be an asshole who could be doing so much more things with my time.

But it is interesting. Failure is fascinating, and it teaches you how to improve. Whilte here will always be those who don't question bad writing and happily swallow down poor game design, everyone else deserves a little insight.

Hell, all of Devil May Cry is fair game. It's got it's sweet and it's sour, and I'd rather see everyone else's opinion than wallow in a quagmire of my own opinions.

It's not a special dig against DmC. You ever read the Evil Overlord List? I'm sure what Mundus did is on it somewhere. Villains becoming stupid at a critical moment because that's the only way the heroes can win is a time-honored cliche, even in otherwise excellent stories.

Ah, good old Evil Overlord List. Do you remember when Mundas outright annihilated Griffon after Dante pushed his poop in, when he could have given the bird a power up so he could keep fighting? That was a bonehead move, but it illustrated Mundas's lack of empathy and callousness outweighs his good judgement. Deeper stories would have that character flaw be his downfall, but DMC his downfall comes from getting his arse kicked incredibly hard. DMC is a big dumb story with poor acting and a cheesy script, but there's charm in that simplicity.

 

[DankestDarkness]

Just like the kablooey weapon is just a taser in the real world perhaps vergils assault riffle is something else in limbo that made it strong enough to put a hole in lilth or she was just still weak from the battle with Dante

 

[Macabre]

Just like the kablooey weapon is just a taser in the real world perhaps vergils assault riffle is something else in limbo that made it strong enough to put a hole in lilth or she was just still weak from the battle with Dante

Dante: Hey bro, could I borrow that super powerful rifle you used to one shot two arch-devils? Because I kill monsters all the time, and-

Vergil: Go away, Peasant.