Loopy
Devil hunter in training
Besides, if he is making these appearences in other games, then that must mean Capcom still has plans for Dante. They're not just forgetting him. Maybe they're just waiting to work out what to do next.
The Fine Line of Change
- Thread starter Railazel
- Start date
Besides, if he is making these appearences in other games, then that must mean Capcom still has plans for Dante. They're not just forgetting him. Maybe they're just waiting to work out what to do next.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Source
Source
We know Capcom rejected designs of original Dante when Ninja theory presented it to them. Instead Capcom said they wanted something totally different.
In Playstation Allstar there is only DmC Dante. There is no DMC Dante. Which is very unfair to the character.
In DmC: Capcom has taken actions to make people settle with DmC Dante. By making DmC Dante behave or look like Dante.
Which is counterproductive to what they wanted in first place with DmC Dante. Something different.
And despite Capcom having said "We firmly believe just because a door has been opened (refering to DmC) doesn't mean another is closed(refering to DMC)" and "DmC is a expansion to DMC" they have shown little actions indicating they want to push Dante from DMC or DMC games forward.
I don't think they have forgotten about DMC and original Dante, but why would they? They are a company and Dante and DMC is $$$ to them.
Their primary goal with rebooting DMC seemed to be 5M sales.
Dante and DMC have been replaced to a good degree. Last DMC game was 5 years ago.
And Dante wasn't in Playstation allstar, ONLY DmC Dante was.
original Dante appearing in small games doesn't really weigh much as him not being replaced considering he deserved a spot in Playstation allstar at the very least.
PSA was a marketing game. Capcom forced the developers to use DmC DAnte. And even though Raiden has existed more than DmC Dante, i think Konami or publisher of MGS serie forced the same developers to have only Raiden in the game and not also Solid Snake.
I don't think DMC is worth going into anymore. The gameplay has been pretty much exhausted (little room for innovation it seems), and the storyline of DMC is messed up. But if Dante or DMC isn't being made at same time as DmC or even after DmC, then how has it not been replaced?
I mean Capcom can easily change their mind about what they did (trying to replace DMC and original Dante), but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I think CApcom tried to replace DMC and original Dante with DmC. BEcause thats the impression i get from their actions and DmC.
So even if Capcom announces DMC 5 in 2 months from now, i would think "Your attempt at replacement failed, and now your milking DMC eh?".
But my thoughts aside, i think its safe to say that treshold for Capcom having attempted to replace DMC and Dante is within this year. I.e if you don't see a DMC 5 announcement within end of 2013 - then you can safely assume the assertion of replacement wasnt far from the truth.
Alittleacorn
Smile it confuses people
I'm sorry I have to comment on this, just for something I remember my dad saying once some years ago.
Something can be really good, like a film, book, game or a tv series, but there will always come a point when a creator/director/writer/etc have to know when to end it [e.g: you can get one really good film, and then a sequel/sequels to it that are utter crap]. Sometimes you can have something go on for so long that it eventually loses what made it so good in the beginning, and DMC4 might've been a little red flag to that.
Maybe there could've been a Devil May Cry 5. A lot of fans have mentioned ideas and where they could've gone with it [even a Sparda prequel that many talked about] but by the sources you sent above, it seems like Capcom weren't confident enough that they could pull off a DMC5 successfully, and still make a decent quality game worthy of being DMC. Sometimes you just need to know when to pull the plug or start from scratch, because otherwises you gets series like Resident Evil that's nearly gone off track from it's survival horror roots, and even Tomb Raider that was losing it's way with it's last title before it got rebooted with the new one.
I don't think it is that they didn't care, far from it, I just don't believe they knew what to do with Devil May Cry anymore [and people can argue and debate otherwise, but that's how they felt]. They'd already attempt one mini reboot with DMC3 after what was DMC2 [which, was more Lucia's story than Dante's, because the plot focus more around her.] After DMC4, they might've needed to attempt a second mini reboot in that universe, and that could've been where Capcom just completely ran out of ideas. [What was it, about two years after DMC4 before DmC got announced? So cutting back the time it took them to approach Ninja Theory and any other gaming companies at that time, that's got to be about a year or so on the drawing board trying to figure something out? And what about the time during DMC4's production? Surely they should've been planning at that time what to do afterwards, so that could be an additional 6 months or an extra year or so topped on that.]
Could they have done a full remake then on all the DMC titles? [Would they even need them?] If they'd decided on that then it means they'd of had to have to go through Devil May Cry 3 again [which only got released about 2 years or so earlier before DMC4, a much longer period of time before Resident Evil 1 got a remake] then you would've had to have visited DMC1 again, and then you're back at DMC4 before going onto DMC2. Sure they could've had other plot elements thrown in to make other sequels, but they would have still needed to cross previous titles and go through the same plot, more-or-less the same scenes with some dialogue changes. And what would they have achieved? Better graphics? Some minor plot differences? Improved gameplay? Would that have been enough? Even so, you'd still be waiting years to continue on from DMC4.
So ultimate betrayal is the most overdramatic comment for a company using their heads. They didn't want to attempt to make a DMC5 or a DMC6 if they couldn't do them justice [and probably would've had fans raging at how terrible they were too, just like people have complained about Resident Evil 6]. And after seeing some games, films and shows out there live on longer than they should have or start to lose their spark, I'm glad they decided to reboot the whole thing, I don't think I could've beared another DMC4 and a Dante that became invincible, rather than the part human he was in the first game.
The only thing I wish is that they'd made DmC a bit more familiar for fans from the originals instead of n00bs to the series like me [even if I did know about the series prior and had seen footage on the games] because even I'll admit it does drop you in there. I just hope that's something they'd take into consideration for a sequel.
AlchemistFromEden
Well-known Member
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
@AoE
You don't have to master/study in game design to fully appreciate or understand the concept of games. Just being a dedicated and avid player helps too.
Plus people play games for very different reasons (atmosphere, gameplay, story, etc). A perfect (or excellent..perfect doesn't exists. Its just a goal we as people strive for to attain. The highest form of achievement is achieving perfection...although it does exist in some cases) game accels in all these criteria flawlessly.
In the case of DmC, it doesn't have DMC1's atmosphere. It has nice/creative stage design as if it were art but that is only on a visual plane on a gameplay or game design aspect they're drastically linear...nah they're linear compared to past games (maybe not DMC2) with some obviously hidden stuff here and there mixed with boring platforming for the most part.
However, in the case of DMC4 it does has backtracking but so does the past games especially the 1 and 3 but each of them do it differently. You already explained DMC1 now I'll explain DMC3. At the beginning up to mission 13, the player is heading forward and is exposed to new areas each time and are sent around completing puzzles meanwhile exploring the area and its surroundings. Though it doesn't have the atmosphere of DMC1 you can explore this one ancient building and explore and learn more about its design, architecture, and how it once functioned which are used as part of the game's narrative or is part of the future events of the game from a non-pretentious standpoint. Then your sent running around previous environments with some yet similar puzzles (except the one where you control the tower) although the environments are scrambled so your sent to old environments that were reconfigured so it caused alteration to the design making it feel like new stages but in old skin.
Now DMC4 did something DMC1 and DMC3 did, you backtracked as another character with a different gameplay so it greatly affected combat plus DMC4 did things to greatly mix up to not make it feel 100% that you went through the exact same stages the same way you came before. Like in the Order HQ you had to escape the area before it exploded so you were timed (just like in DMC2 where you had to run through the factory backwards but was timed), in Mitis Forest took notes from DMC3 where the area not only looked different but due to those gas things created by Echinda how you traverse in the forest isn't the same as how it was before it in fact became a new puzzle as you had to find the right path out (just wished they took out the crossroads puzzle), the castle was frozen solid so cosmetically it was altered to not only look different but it changed how you as Dante traveled through that area compared to Nero and even created new paths and eliminated old paths and removed the gyro blade puzzle, and the underground lab had that toxic gas that drained Dante's health so you traveled that area under different circumstances that you never faced traveling as Nero. From there you basically went backwards as Dante. Plus he even had a new stage that Nero never entered after going all the way to the back. Plus Dante sped through the stages rather quickly.
Plus people say why not make it like DMC2 where you had 2 separate characters who have their own missions and mode. Well what they don't point out is that as Lucia you go through the same stages that Dante goes through the exact same way if not slightly different (except the first stage and the underground ruins which was one big underwater segment...so ewww) and she fights the same bosses except Furiataurus, the giant mummy, and Bolverk and her only exclusive boss is a re-skin of another boss Dante fights too with less moves and a giant fish you had to fight underwater (so eww) and her own final boss (which was pretty easy). Plus time wise DMC4 was slightly longer than DMC2. Dante didn't fight every boss Nero fought he didn't fight Credo, Sanctus, or himself and he fought the Savior, who Nero didn't fight.
You don't have to master/study in game design to fully appreciate or understand the concept of games. Just being a dedicated and avid player helps too.
Plus people play games for very different reasons (atmosphere, gameplay, story, etc). A perfect (or excellent..perfect doesn't exists. Its just a goal we as people strive for to attain. The highest form of achievement is achieving perfection...although it does exist in some cases) game accels in all these criteria flawlessly.
In the case of DmC, it doesn't have DMC1's atmosphere. It has nice/creative stage design as if it were art but that is only on a visual plane on a gameplay or game design aspect they're drastically linear...nah they're linear compared to past games (maybe not DMC2) with some obviously hidden stuff here and there mixed with boring platforming for the most part.
However, in the case of DMC4 it does has backtracking but so does the past games especially the 1 and 3 but each of them do it differently. You already explained DMC1 now I'll explain DMC3. At the beginning up to mission 13, the player is heading forward and is exposed to new areas each time and are sent around completing puzzles meanwhile exploring the area and its surroundings. Though it doesn't have the atmosphere of DMC1 you can explore this one ancient building and explore and learn more about its design, architecture, and how it once functioned which are used as part of the game's narrative or is part of the future events of the game from a non-pretentious standpoint. Then your sent running around previous environments with some yet similar puzzles (except the one where you control the tower) although the environments are scrambled so your sent to old environments that were reconfigured so it caused alteration to the design making it feel like new stages but in old skin.
Now DMC4 did something DMC1 and DMC3 did, you backtracked as another character with a different gameplay so it greatly affected combat plus DMC4 did things to greatly mix up to not make it feel 100% that you went through the exact same stages the same way you came before. Like in the Order HQ you had to escape the area before it exploded so you were timed (just like in DMC2 where you had to run through the factory backwards but was timed), in Mitis Forest took notes from DMC3 where the area not only looked different but due to those gas things created by Echinda how you traverse in the forest isn't the same as how it was before it in fact became a new puzzle as you had to find the right path out (just wished they took out the crossroads puzzle), the castle was frozen solid so cosmetically it was altered to not only look different but it changed how you as Dante traveled through that area compared to Nero and even created new paths and eliminated old paths and removed the gyro blade puzzle, and the underground lab had that toxic gas that drained Dante's health so you traveled that area under different circumstances that you never faced traveling as Nero. From there you basically went backwards as Dante. Plus he even had a new stage that Nero never entered after going all the way to the back. Plus Dante sped through the stages rather quickly.
Plus people say why not make it like DMC2 where you had 2 separate characters who have their own missions and mode. Well what they don't point out is that as Lucia you go through the same stages that Dante goes through the exact same way if not slightly different (except the first stage and the underground ruins which was one big underwater segment...so ewww) and she fights the same bosses except Furiataurus, the giant mummy, and Bolverk and her only exclusive boss is a re-skin of another boss Dante fights too with less moves and a giant fish you had to fight underwater (so eww) and her own final boss (which was pretty easy). Plus time wise DMC4 was slightly longer than DMC2. Dante didn't fight every boss Nero fought he didn't fight Credo, Sanctus, or himself and he fought the Savior, who Nero didn't fight.
AlchemistFromEden
Well-known Member
nightrunner_ks
You are not in control
Don't you know? Every thread in this sub-forum gets turned to sh*t when MrRandomlulz and Alchemist join in the fun.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
@AlchemistFromEden:
How about you learn how to reply by quoting properly instead of answering within quotes and its such a mess to read.Logically, since your answers are within quotes of someone else, it means your answers were given by the original quote and not by you. God, please learn the function of quote before replying with a quote. You fail miserably.
Not pursue a career in game development.......My a$$.
BTW, Hitting the reply button does not quote your statements because you answered within quotes and you did not say anything in your post.
How about you learn how to reply by quoting properly instead of answering within quotes and its such a mess to read.Logically, since your answers are within quotes of someone else, it means your answers were given by the original quote and not by you. God, please learn the function of quote before replying with a quote. You fail miserably.
Not pursue a career in game development.......My a$$.
BTW, Hitting the reply button does not quote your statements because you answered within quotes and you did not say anything in your post.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Playstation All Stars is just one giant commercial. The original Dante should have been in that game and the DmC Dante should be an alt. costume. SOLID SNAKE NEEDED to be in that game, not Raiden. You can't replace Snake with Raiden, that never works out and it's been proven. Raiden is not a gaming icon and surely not someone you'd consider an "All Star"
Hell Nathan Drake and most of those characters are not considers all stars. They've haven't been out that long to establish that kind of status.
Crash Bandicoot, Spyro The Dragon, and Cloud from Final Fantasy were all missing from that party and that's some major bs. They just tossed in characters to promote recent releases that were on the horizon. There's a reason why Smash Bros. is the superior game on multiple levels. Love me some Smash Bros.
V's patron
be loyal to what matters
In a attempt to get this thread on back, it all depends on how you define what is a good change/natural change is. For me a good change/natural change should be something that feels like it grows out what already is there storywise and something that is a different way of looking at things.
A good example would be either the thundercats reboot, the canceled megaman reboot and the amazing spiderman reboot because they all had serious departures from the lore but when you really think about, they still gets the point across or can be seen as a new way of looking at it.
the main problem with DmC is that we don't get a lot of time devoted to exploring these changes so its hard to say making Dante half angel/half demon is an improvement because we dont actually see him interacting with them.
So it becomes a question of is the change actively explored as well as the change feel natural.
hope that helps.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
The entire angel/demon aspect was something that really never came up to truly affect the plot. Everything could have run the same as before; D and V being Cambions, and Dante's black hair could be constant dying to hide the white. Some changes were just for teh sake of saying "this changed!"...amnd then nothing came of it...
I love the new game, but I do have enough sens eto see where some stuff was really just...made pointless.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I think the whole angel/demon hybrid (not calling them Nephilim cause that is an angel/human hybrid) was shoe horned/forced in there so NT can re-use HS combat mechanics and have it make sense and then throw in a cheap holy war plot between angels and demons that goes literally nowhere and even then if there was some holy war between angels and demons, there was still no need to make Dante and Vergil half angel too cause the half angel, half demon sthick as well as the war between angels and demons not only had no impact on the plot and it didn't even had an impact on the characters or there motives.
AlchemistFromEden
Well-known Member
thanks for not contributing at all to the discussion because you cannot debunk what i just said -_- btw, i put my answers in bold, this is becoming a common reply method on this forum, if you're gonna reply to someone, hit the reply button
nightrunner_ks
You are not in control
Playstation All-Stars > SSBB every ****ing day. It might not have the best character roster, but the gameplay is miles beyond Brawl, or any Smash game.
AlchemistFromEden
Well-known Member
haha no -_-
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
I share your father's thoughts.
They clearly show that they are confident enough to reboot a serie for sake of 5M sales.
And DMC story from a prequal perspective has still alot of potential.
They simply didn't bother. But if Capcom bothered they could have hired writers or people with great story telling skills to help them with DMC prequal.
They could have hired NT.
They could...
But did they? No. And ALOT points that MONEY had a significiant role in their goal to reboot DMC.
DMC still have NICE potential. The question is really: Will Capcom work to show that potential?
1) Sparda story with NEW Sparda gameplay
2) Vergil backstory: Whether that be when he was in hell or the time he spent at age of 15 in human world.
INNOVATION: That's what Sparda gameplay would be if Capcom did their job.
Plus they could hire storytellers for help. That's what Ninja theory did with Heavenly sword and Enslaved.
I don't think remake is a good idea. But i think they could have made the games i mentioned above.
RE6 was a fps focused game, how is that being true to what Resident Evil serie represent? SURVIVAL THIRD PERSON HORROR.
And as your dad said "Something should die eventually until they no longer stop being as good as they were in beginning". Resident Evil S I X.
It's not that gamers complain about Capcom because they try something new. Resident Evil 6 wasn't trying something new. It was from what i know Capcom using the Resident Evil brand to sell a fps, since COD is so good on sales they probably thought "Let's sell us some fps and get 10m
".They did.
But that is not necessarily what originals wanted nor was it a good thing in my opinion for the story of DmC.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
Actually, Playstation All-Stars have a quite deep combat system once you learn it. SSB mechanics are quite good but the depth of it involves mostly around dash cancelling. Just like nightrunner, I prefer Playstation All-Stars.
nightrunner_ks
You are not in control
How's the tripping in Brawl going?