well at least it would be STORY. I still not sure there would be anything at allI still hold to my believe that it's going to be flashback story. Specifically the story of how Yamato broke in two.
I've got two theories about the breaking of yamato. The first is the most obvious: that yamato was broken when a weakened vergil was defeated by mundus, which would make sense since yamato is an incredibly powerful weapon, yet when vergil is enslaved as nelo angelo, he's sent to fight dante with a nameless sword, which wouldn't make a lot of sense unless yamato wasn't available. The second theory is that yamato carries some of vergil's pride, and after vergil's defeat the weapon was lost, and broke itself rather than suffer being used by whatever unworthy demon happened to find itI still hold to my believe that it's going to be flashback story. Specifically the story of how Yamato broke in two.
I don't think so, they need all the fan service they can get for DMC5 to sell well. Capcom isn't doing too good, and Vergil has helped them sell games before (UMvC3), so even if his resurrection is weird you can bet he will be back in DMC5. Then by extension if they have a campaign in DMC4SE for him it will probably be Vergil getting out of hell and a teaser leading up to DMC5. It would be crazy for them not to fan service up DMC5 so people will buy it on day 1, instead of being hesitant. THERE NEEDS to be a Vergil and Dante campaign in DMC5.I still hold to my believe that it's going to be flashback story. Specifically the story of how Yamato broke in two.
''This is where I'm at too. Prior to the events of DMC3, vergil supposedly drops off the face of the earth for a whole year (and even before that, it's never specified exactly what he was doing). When he shows up again, there's just enough clues to conclude that how he behaves is more extreme than he normally is.''This is what I say to myself every time I begin to reply to you. But my willpower is weak, and I end up replying anyway. I don't know why, because this is the exact response I get from you every time. You never admit fault, you always just make a giant public display of "omg I literally can't even, you're soooo stupid I can't talk to you" and stomp off trailing reaction gifs and emote text in your wake, not one salient point or solid line of logic between your first post and your last.
How many times have you made a post exactly like the one you made just now? I've posted on these boards a lot, but I've lurked even more. Whenever you argue, either that type of post ends up happening, or the thread ends up locked, and I'm not even involved for most of those. You can keep blaming literally every person who ever disagrees with you, or you can ask yourself how much of the problem lies with you.
Anyway, derail over, back to the original point.
This is where I'm at too. Prior to the events of DMC3, vergil supposedly drops off the face of the earth for a whole year (and even before that, it's never specified exactly what he was doing). When he shows up again, there's just enough clues to conclude that how he behaves is more extreme than he normally is.
The theory is that vergil has a son somewhere within that one year gap, and the timeline would fit around that. Lady goes from being something like 15 to in her late 20s or 30s for DMC4, and nero is portrayed as a cocky teenager at around 16 or so. Dante is aware of vergil's actions prior to that one year of absence, and then vergil goes off and dies immediately after resurfacing. Since dante is unaware of nero's bloodline for most of DMC4 (sanctus even taunts his ignorance of this at one point) that one year gap has to be where nero is conceived.
Now here's where things get a little more speculative, so take everything past this line with a big grain of salt, unless I specifically mention it's canon
The theory is that vergil hooks up with a nice human, and actually starts to settle down into the role of happy dad, following in sparda's footsteps and seeing something worthwhile in a human. During this time with his guard down, he's attacked, the woman dies, and nero is lost, presumed by vergil to be dead (and later discovered by someone else who takes him to the doorstep of the order, as it states in nero's DMC4 bio). Vergil's inability to protect himself, his son, or this mystery lady push him over the edge, and the pain of losing a loved one is too much, to the point where he feels the only option is to rid himself of his weaker, feeling human half. This is why he goes on his rampage killing humans and seeking entry to the demon world; because he's done with being human, and wants to be as uncaring/unfeeling as a demon.
Additionally, you could also suggest that vergil's line at the top of the tower: "without strength you can't protect anything" isn't referring to dante's inability to protect himself, but a reflection of his own failure to protect nero and his mother.
Once again, highly speculative, but it would add some much needed depth to his character, so I like to believe it.
Oh, and also the origins of nero's arm. In his official bio, it states that nero is wounded in the shoulder by a mysterious demonic weapon (in the same fight where red queen is damaged and sent for repair) and at first he believes the wound to be infected or poisoned, but soon realizes his arm has transformed into a source of demonic power, and trains with it in secret. That much is canon.
More speculation here. So when powerful demons in the DMC universe die, their essence forms into a weapon bearing their name and some of their traits. Vergil is a powerful demon in the DMC universe. In the description of nero's injury, the demon is not wielding the devil bringer, but the derpy equivalent of a demonic pointed stick. Not that impressive, and obviously improvised, but still powerful enough to damage the red queen and wound nero. The speculation here is that Vergil, the weapon, retains some shreds of consciousness (or maybe pride is a better word?) and upon being found by a lesser demon, he refuses to awaken as a true weapon for something so unworthy of him. The weapon is still pretty good, even as an inert object to just swing around, but nowhere near its full potential. When "vergil" pierces nero, he comes in contact with his blood, and the weapon recognizes him as someone worthy, transferring himself inside of nero's arm and transforming it. Yamato has always been vergil's weapon, and when nero encounters it, yamato recognizes vergil's ownership and seeks out nero's arm, to reunite with its old master.
Nero has even described his arm as whispering to him, saying some very vergil-sounding stuff, and he can only access devil trigger while holding yamato. While in this state, an oversoul that looks a whole lot like vergil's demon form protects him (the arm mounted sheath is the most obvious feature) although the projection itself looks kind of dazed and not all there in the head.
There's other stuff, but that all stretches the bounds of reasonable speculation, even for me. Also this post has turned into a huge wall of text, so that can be for another time.
Prior to the events of DMC3, dante doesn't feel the urge to kill vergil, let alone following him into hell to do so. From this, it's safe to say that what vergil does in DMC3 is much more inexcusable to dante than what he's done in the past. Considering vergil wipes out an entire city full of humans for dante to arrive at this decision, I don't find it hard to believe.This is where I'm at too. Prior to the events of DMC3, vergil supposedly drops off the face of the earth for a whole year (and even before that, it's never specified exactly what he was doing). When he shows up again, there's just enough clues to conclude that how he behaves is more extreme than he normally is.
There are? I mean, sorry to say this, but the manga isn't the same as the games. Most of the novels are accepted as non-canonical. DMC3 is technically the first time Vergil makes his appearance, so... more extreme than what?
The theory is that vergil has a son somewhere within that one year gap, and the timeline would fit around that. Lady goes from being something like 15 to in her late 20s or 30s for DMC4, and nero is portrayed as a cocky teenager at around 16 or so. Dante is aware of vergil's actions prior to that one year of absence, and then vergil goes off and dies immediately after resurfacing. Since dante is unaware of nero's bloodline for most of DMC4 (sanctus even taunts his ignorance of this at one point) that one year gap has to be where nero is conceived.
Lady was 19 in DMC3 just like Dante. Nero is (probably) 19 in DMC4 just like Dante was in DMC3. If Vergil had Nero when he was 18, and Dante (and therefore Vergil too) is ''around 30'' (as was literally said) in DMC4, that wouldn't fit. 18 (Vergil) + 19 (Nero) = 37. Dante doesn't seem unaware of who Nero is to me (otherwise why wouldn't he be more surprised or look for answers?), but I guess it's up to interpretation. As for Sanctus taunting his ignorance, didn't see any of that. He does assume that Dante was 'outwitted' because he didn't expect Nero, but who can say that that's true? Considering the Savior needed to be destroyed from the inside as well as the outside, Nero's appearance was pretty convenient.
Additionally, you could also suggest that vergil's line at the top of the tower: "without strength you can't protect anything" isn't referring to dante's inability to protect himself, but a reflection of his own failure to protect nero and his mother.
I would agree that Vergil isn't referring to Dante. After all, if Vergil thinks power is needed mainly to protect things, and he has nothing to protect, then why would he himself need or desire power? I don't know about him hooking up with a human, though. He seems not to care about humans much, and he finds their physical weakness a big problem. He probably believes that Sparda's loss of demonic power was what got Eva killed - that, and Eva's own lack of strength.
The DB was still only intended as a gimmick (albeit a very nice one), and it was intended for Dante. Right now, I'm not sure Capcom even knows what it is, or what it should and shouldn't do.
Yes, like the DMC4 booklet said, Nero defended Kyrie in Mitis Forest, and was slashed on the shoulder, which caused his arm to morph into something that looks exactly like a Devil Trigger arm to me. It's possible Nero's DB is a partial Devil Trigger, and that could explain why he says it 'drives him crazy'. Nowhere in the game is it implied that Vergil is inside his arm (though it is implied he's connected to the Yamato somehow, or the Yamato simply acts power-hungry of its own accord). We also don't know if half-human souls like Vergil & Dante's can turn into Devil Arms. Not saying it's impossible though.
I still think he heard Vergil's voice (probably coming from the Yamato in Agnus's lab, which was close by) because he awakened some of his demonic power. That outburst of power caused Vergil's soul to notice Nero and to be able to cry out, though obviously he couldn't do anything besides float around in Agnus's force field.
Nero never said he heard the voice echo ''power'' when he was fighting the demons in Mitis Forest, or that he got his wish for more power -- all he said is that 'from that day forward, my arm changed and a voice echoed ''power''', which is pretty threadbare info. For all we know, the 'voice' could just be Nero's demonic side. I guess he simply wanted more power, and got some kind of partial, permanent Devil Trigger because he's only 1/4 demon. Or maybe the arm is just something a 1/4 demon could get... I dunno how Capcom will decide it works. It could be that he doesn't even have his own DT yet, since Vergil's soul acts (mostly) as his DT. I say mostly because Vergil never had a halo attached to his shoulders like Nero's DT does, and it has a pretty different body.
Ergh... anyway, we just don't know yet. All I know is that the teaser for DMC4 SE shows a Vergil that looks about as old as Dante in DMC4, therefore if DMC4 SE has an extra story, it takes place either shortly before or after DMC4. That could mean Vergil didn't die in DMC1, he was simply freed from Mundus's control and escaped the island somehow. That said, maybe Capcom's just making him look older 'because they can' or something. No idea. We really don't know anything right now.
i think of that as the savior could have been destroyed from the outside until Nero was absorbed because then it's had Sparda's blood to power itAs for Sanctus taunting his ignorance, didn't see any of that. He does assume that Dante was 'outwitted' because he didn't expect Nero, but who can say that that's true? Considering the Savior needed to be destroyed from the inside as well as the outside, Nero's appearance was pretty convenient.
Fair enough. Never said I found it hard to believe though, I think. Just that the games are different from the novels.Prior to the events of DMC3, dante doesn't feel the urge to kill vergil, let alone following him into hell to do so. From this, it's safe to say that what vergil does in DMC3 is much more inexcusable to dante than what he's done in the past. Considering vergil wipes out an entire city full of humans for dante to arrive at this decision, I don't find it hard to believe.
In DMC4, dante is aware of sanctus's shady intent, but his plan to foil the awakening of the savior is ruined because nero carries the blood of sparda and can serve as a replacement power source. Sanctus even taunts him in-game for not realizing this earlier.
I'm confused what you're saying around the age here. I say that their ages should be "around 30" to fit, and you counter by saying "no, they must be at least 37, therefore it doesn't fit!" ... so, 37 is not around 30? Help me out here, what exactly are you trying to say? Because even stretching their ages out a bit to help your case, your math still adds up to support my theory, which is obviously not what you were trying to do
Yes, vergil as he is in DMC3 doesn't seem the type to care for a human, or invest in power to protect one. That's why I was speaking hypothetically about what happened before he became that way, to explain why he became that way. As far as character tropes go, it's not unheard of for a character that cared too much to try and bury their humanity by becoming an unfeeling, murderous monster
As far as this "threadbare" connection between vergil and nero's devil bringer:
- the devil bringer repairs yamato, and nero is almost never seen holding it in his human hand
- the devil bringer looks like vergil's arm in DT
- in DT, vergil's entire body hovers over nero, while nero's devil bringer glows brightly. Even restyled, vergil's arm sheath is extremely distinct. As you attack, vergil's oversoul performs attacks with yamato to mimick your own
- after you acquire yamato, when you max-act certain attacks, nero's attack lines become vergil's lines, and even his voice changes to sound like vergil. Try a level 3 with any of the attacks that require lockon, particularly "blast" and "begone", and compare to when vergil says these exact same things. Nero has his own voice normally, so I find it really weird that they swap out voice actors just to say these few words, especially if he supposedly has no connection to vergil
True, but then we still don't know if Dante wanted to destroy it before anything happened. Meh, I don't know.i think of that as the savior could have been destroyed from the outside until Nero was absorbed because then it's had Sparda's blood to power it
otherwise why didn't the savior use any of its other attacks aside from it's fist during the first Sanctus fight
splitting hairs all over the place here.snip
Vergil wasnt dead the whole time. He has been in hiding waiting to come back and kick some ass. Hopefully thankful to dante for releasing him from mundus he goes to find dante and join forces . Maybe anti hero of some sorts . But before all that he goes in search for his most valuable belonging. The yamato!.. he finds nero and obviously nero wouldnt hand the yamato over to some stranger so a fight breaks out. Vergil wipes the floor with nero and beats the hell out of him. He then pins him upright against a wall with a summoned sword. Then unleashed dozens of them into his hanging body to completely subdue him. The yamato hears vergils call and starts to glow blue and float towards vergil,who grabs it and sheathes it. Vergil leaves nero im search of more competition.
camera pans back to nero. Barely recognisable with all the blood . He then opens his eyes which are glowing purple and the devil arm pulse ates and grows untill it covers his whole body . His wings free him from the wall he is pinned to and then collapses with the red queen in hand
Go on, looks interesting.
Dante pins Vergil down and places his sword upon his head as a warning! However Vergil summons his swords and attacks Dante from behind. This prompts Dante to partially Devil Trigger to protect his spine from the barrage of summon sword unbleached upon him, but Vergil being smart that his is decides to give Dante a point blank blow of his swords in hopes of knocking him back, but Dante counters it with Dreadnaught. Vergil goes into Devil Trigger only this form looks different and calls on Yamato which materializes out of Nero arm...Nero looks on and witnesses Vergil raw power blows Dante away from him and has this frightened look to him! Nero tries to go into Devil Trigger but it doesn't work and goes unto the offense and shoots barrages of bullets, and attacks Vergil with the Red Queen but the sword can't penetrate his hard exterior...however he notices a cold feeling in his stomach and sees Yamato plunged into him, so he punches Vergil in the face with his Devil Bringer but it has no effect. Vergil makes a remark as to how foolish he is and knocks him on the floor stabbing his Devil Bringer Arm to which turns normal and then stabs him in his chest. Nero has a powerful feeling all of a sudden come over him and Vergil tells Nero, that only the Yamato can bring out a Devils true power...Nero's eye's begin to glow red and he says "Power...give me mOAR POWER" to which Vergil knocks him out..."Sleep well little Devil". Dante looks at Vergil and takes out Rebellion and they lock swords...they both smile of course and continue their barrage of strikes at each other and their evenly matched, but neither can subdue one another and they continue to attack each other which sends energy waves flying cracking windows and splitting the concrete floor beneath them! Each blow they take throws electricity which distorts their environment and onlooking demons flee as quick as possible. Trish sees the distorted clouds a mile away from Fortuna Castle and rushes quickly to investigate on what's going on! She Devil triggers and speed blitzes past onlookers and arrives only to see Vergil alive in front of her, and fighting Dante. Trish unsheathes Sparda but sees Nero lie in a pool of his own blood, she picks him of the floor and carries him on her shoulder, and takes off blitzing past broken buildings, running up walls to cover long distances and get's him as far away from the fight and puts a green star on his chest to which heals his wounds, but Nero lies unconscious although he starts to breath, and there's a pulse as he opens his eyes for a moment and they glow faintly but closes them again. Trish takes Nero to Devils Never Cry and kicks in the door, only to have Lady rush downstairs! Trish asks Lady to look after Nero and help him recuperate and then runs out again.
Shall I continue some moor?
I reli hope hes not the arm :/