So new DMC animated series are coming to Netflix

[berto]

Vergil is a frustrating case to deal with. DMC doesn't have dragon balls to fix his mess like Vegeta. Nobody can "humble" him except his relatives but unfortunately Vergil dumb everyone down when he's nearby. The most offensive is his cruelty acts in game actually rewarded him. A manga where he pitied himself more than pitying his mother getting killed by demons. Just too much...

Ok, I'm going to say a thing and it's a thing that people have gotten super pssd at me for saying it but I'm going to say it and I am and will continue to hold to it.

I think the big issue DMC has for its canon, especially right now, is that out of the people making it nobody cares what they did before; they are always changing things and throwing out this and that irrelevant of how important a part of the game it was introduced in it was. If it's in the way out it goes. This is why Dante and Vergil are no longer identical twins, it's why the original chronology has been scrapped, it's why Nero is the new lead and Dante is second fiddle in his own series.

I mentioned this as a prelude because it's relevant. So, with all the being said, the biggest issue that we have with Vergil is that there is too much DmC in DMC5. Beyond just him suddenly having DmC powers, which were never there before, they flipped his (no pun intended) motivations to match DmCs. Now Vergil thinks him mom didn't love him like she loved Dante, which is what he said to her in the Vergil's Downfall expansion. Dante confirms this new interpretation in 5, too. That was never how he thought about his mother. Vergil's reason for wanting power was because he was never able to protect his mother. This isn't a theory or speculation, this is a fact. If anyone needs to see it in print you can look up a translation for the book Trinity of Fates where the makers specifically say that the one feeling that unites the brothers is their want to protect their mother and how their failure to do so lead the to their respective paths. Oddly enough, they were very specific about how the parents loved their sons equally.

Well, whatever, because that's gone now and it's the DmC thing now but, if the pattern holds, then that's going to be gone as soon as it becomes inconvenient to the next thing, so getting attached to anything might be getting too optimistic. Vergil isn't going to get 'fixed' in any way you might find satisfactory if they don't have rules that they adhere to in their world. Tone, rules, principles and motivations are pretty fickle here.

 

[Benny]

@berto I actually never touched DmC before, if I have time and motivation (also no pun intended) I would try that game one day.

I think this is funny. DMC started with a director who made his main character an obvious mommy boy, then next director and his treatment with female parents, they were there and they died that's all folks.

Vergil's reason for wanting power was because he was never able to protect his mother.

It used to bug me where did this information come out when I first joined community. I mean I played DMC3 like others too, from what I saw in game the one mentioned about mother of Dante and Vergil the most was, unironically

He even talked "fondly" of his late wife several times, how kind of him ❤




Seriously why would such important info about character's drive and motivation got shoved to fanbook? No wonder it easily can be retconned, these things are fragile

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

I am going in with no expectations for vergil or trish or lady. If this anime covers nero at some point that will be weird as it will have to be a different va for him then.

 

[V's patron]

@berto
its funny because 3,4,5 had the same director, writer and producer.

so they are forgetting their own work lol.

id say its a case of them wanting to have it both ways more than forgetting it.

ie. they want Nero to spare Vergil but dont really build it up to it for me.

 

[berto]

Seriously why would such important info about character's drive and motivation got shoved to fanbook?

Well, it's not a fanbook, it's an official one, but, to answer your question more directly, it's because in the time of the PS2 the story would often not fit in the game itself. DMC1's story i can only really be put in the supplemental material. Actors cost money, motion capture takes time and it's not easy to fit it all when the main focus of your game is the game part, not the story. DMC4's plot is still mostly only in its novel, too.

its funny because 3,4,5 had the same director, writer and producer.

Yeah, that's part of it, too.

Itsuno has mentioned in interviews how proud he was of the work he did in DmC and that the people he worked with in England have become close friends. He also originally hoped to make DmC2, not DMC5, so a lot of the things that they put in 5 are remnants of what he wanted to make. Arguably, you could say he merged it all, DMC 1-4 and DmC and a huge easter egg and as fan service, but it's also and ode to his work on the game and the friends he made.

 

[Benny]

Well, it's not a fanbook, it's an official one, but, to answer your question more directly, it's because in the time of the PS2 the story would often not fit in the game itself. DMC1's story i can only really be put in the supplemental material. Actors cost money, motion capture takes time and it's not easy to fit it all when the main focus of your game is the game part, not the story. DMC4's plot is still mostly only in its novel, too.

I get this, but when I look at the result where character didn't utter a word about his own reason why he acted that way then maybe... poor management also played a part. It's not like you can not put Eva in Vergil's dialogues. Like change his "without strength you can not protect anything" line to something "Do you know why mother had to die? Because you lack the strength to protect her" and BAM now fans would catch up he was projecting on Dante ezpz

 

[berto]

where character didn't utter a word about his own reason why he acted that way then maybe...

But he did. The whole line is:
Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself.

You want them to be explicit but telling the audience everything out loud shows a lack subtlety and finesse. Show don't tell isn't just a matter of action. You don't even have to think very hard about this line to get the subtext since it's not that subtle. Even Dante got the meaning behind his words , well, considering it was directed at him and their shared experience. When you take this line and add the way he put the amulet to his forehead it all adds up pretty evidently. In all my years in the fandom this was never in question and everyone I talked to understood his meaning.

For the sake of argument, let's take do what you're asking and have everyone saying everything out loud.
-Dante, I was pretty traumatized by the events in our childhood so I'm going to get as much power as I can in order to make sure I never suffer a loss like that again, even if it means sacrificing something equally precious since, subconsciously or otherwise, I feel that this is the way to achieve that.
-Well, I'm going to pretend I don't really care about anything and hide my conflicting emotions behind a rather douchebagy persona when in reality I am tremendiously invested in all of this but showing that I care takes a level of maturity I've yet to achieve, but even then, I will be going to great lengths to do what I feel is right.

This might be a big exaggeration but my point is when do you stop trusting your audience to interpret things for themselves? Blatant dialogue isn't always better. What one doesn't say can tell us more about them than what they do say. This is an idea that Japan seems to embrace more since they don't mind letting their audience put a bit of effort into their fiction. I see this all the time in manga and anime. There is subtext, undertones and underlining themes in the narratives and it makes for better storytelling where there is these things at play.

you lack the strength to protect her

Vergil doesn't blame Dante for not protecting her, he blames himself.

 

[Lain]

Id say this show can fix DMC the same way various Marvel or DC adaptations can fix or hurt those characters.

I doubt that would be anything more than a band-aid. At the end of the day, DMC is a video game franchise and it attracts more people who want to play its gameplay over caring intensely about the story and/or characters. In a similar way to how Gungrave's anime adaptation is superior to any of the individual games, I don't see the Netlfix anime changing anything in the long run.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Well as a self contained universe it can only fix flaws in it's own canon and shared world with castlevania. It won't have any impact on mainline DMC

 

[V's patron]

for reference @Lain responded to a post i deleted.

"Id say this show can fix DMC the same way various Marvel or DC adaptations can fix or hurt those characters."

@ef9dante_oSsshea
i get that but you cant see it in a vacuum.

even if its non-canon, you would end up comparing it to the other entries.

ultimately DmC influenced 5 so i feel like this anime could do the same.

so i dont know if @Lain 's comment would pan out.

deep down, im just hoping for a better take on the games even if its limited to this entry.

i dont want it to ride on nostalgia alone.

i dislike 4, the anime, 5 and the reboot but they took big swings and i can respect that.

 

[Benny]

@berto I think I get why we seem to have disagreement. So you judge DMC as the whole franchise, I actually like your way of interpreting media like this, your insight about DmC earlier is interesting. But I mean I'm talking about DMC3 as an individual game. Maybe I didn't convey it right.

Vergil doesn't blame Dante for not protecting her, he blames himself.

It's just my example, please don't think too hard about it

 

[Lain]

for reference @Lain responded to a post i deleted.

I've noticed you do this from time to time, is there any particular reason?

 

[V's patron]

I've noticed you do this from time to time, is there any particular reason?

i struggle with insecurity and overthinking/second guessing my choices.

its a bad habit of mine.

 

[berto]

So you judge DMC as the whole franchise

In this case I do because the question is how to fix Vergil and in this particular topic I argue that the issue is a lack of cohesiveness across all the games. Not just in terms of them being games but as narratives, too. To establish something in one game only to toss it as soon as it becomes inconvenient is a terrible policy any writer and after 3 the excuse/reason 'the story doesn't really matter' is not enough anymore, not when DMC3 managed to deliver.

If there are going to be new DMC appearances of Vergil then the fact that he sacrificed innocent people for the fruit is probably going to be ignored or explained away. Whichever is most convenient and therein is my point. Whatever is inconvenient is tossed out. There is no commitment to their narrative. If that's how it's going to be why bother getting invested? They're just going to change it again.

But I mean I'm talking about DMC3 as an individual game.

I know. You very specifically quoted that game it was in relation to what I said about that book's passage on DMC3.

ultimately DmC influenced 5 so i feel like this anime could do the same.

It possibly is. They already changed his amulet to look like DmC's and the guns' silhouette in the promotional art look like that game's versions. Adding to that the outfit he's got on have a few similarities, like the grey shirt that just looks dirty. Itsuno was supervisor for the show so it's likely to his request.

 

[CaitNíSé_D_Huntress]

I still can't believe that nero's voice actor will be voicing dante, it almost seems like nero has robbed one of dante's old coats from his younger days and put it on lol.

 

[V's patron]

I still can't believe that nero's voice actor will be voicing dante, it almost seems like nero has robbed one of dante's old coats from his younger days and put it on lol.

ngl, im expecting a metal gear style misdirect and this show is secretly about nero.

 

[berto]

I still can't believe that nero's voice actor will be voicing dante, it almost seems like nero has robbed one of dante's old coats from his younger days and put it on lol.

Bosch is a long established anime VA and he already has a relationship to the franchise. Think of it like this, if they weren't getting Langdon to be Dante would you rather get Bosch or someone completely new?

ngl, im expecting a metal gear style misdirect and this show is secretly about nero.

I've been hearing that a lot.

 

[Lain]

Think of it like this, if they weren't getting Langdon to be Dante would you rather get Bosch or someone completely new?

Personally, Bosch’s voice is too distinctive to me and I probably would have preferred the latter. It’s the same problem I have with him in Dragon Ball where he replaced Vic Mignogna as the voice of Broly but despite his best attempts at a Vic impression, I just can’t unhear Bosch’s unique cadence and it ends up sounding wrong regardless.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Ya i too would personally prefer a new dante or even at the least tim phillips from the reboot. Having him sound like nero is just too weird and too close to home.

 

[V's patron]

i agree with my euro bros, I would've preffered a new actor for Dante.

i was curious what the voice cast was gonna be like. The castlevania series had some big name actors like Richard Armitage as Trevor.

Robert Carlyle as Arkham would be cool.