Should Dante, Trish and Lady Have Been Left Out of DMC4 Entirely?

[Lain]

Consider this:

The beginning of the game plays out the same but it's Credo who drops from the ceiling and shoots Sanctus. Tutorial fight plays out and Credo leaves after making cryptic remarks. As his subordinate, Nero is sent after him but discovers what the Order's been up to at Agnus' lab, heads back to HQ but Kyrie is captured, fights the revived Sanctus but gets captured as well, Credo comes in but is too late to save Nero. Then you play Dante's campaign but as Credo as he goes around destroying the Gates and retrieving Yamato from Agnus. He fights the Savior and delivers the Yamato to Nero who kills Sanctus and saves Kyrie etc etc. Bonus points if during Credo's campaign he reveals that he had met Nero's father, and that's why Nero should keep the Yamato, at the end Credo also reveals he's been in contact with a certain Devil Hunter who convinced him to rebel against Sanctus and will introduce Nero to him some day.

There, you can do the entirety of 4's plot without having Dante/Lady/Trish make a direct appearance. While Dante being in the game puts butts on seats, I still think it would have been better to have him sit out 4 and have Nero meet him proper in 5. Just my two cents.

 

[V's patron]

Honestly, the plot of DMC4 is horrible and should be scrapped entirely. And DMC4 should've been about Sparda since we know so little about him, other than fighting against his own kind to protect humanity. That would be an interesting yet amasing story to tell, instead of Nero who has no purpose in the franchise.

I'd just have Nero pop up at the end of the DMC2 teaser. Lucia asks who he is and he says he's Dante and Lady's kid and checking up on his old man. He finds out he's missing and boom! Plot starts.

Making another game about young Dante was an option. Dante grew up in Fortuna but left because of XYZ. The game is split into two campaigns- one with Teen Dante and one with Adult Dante. Kyrie and him had a falling out before he left but she asks him to help Fortuna once last time.

Or Nero is still Vergil's kid but grew up with his mom. He leaves his village to go find his dad but mistakes Dante for him. Shenanigans ensue as uncle and nephew try to learn from each other.

Consider this:

The beginning of the game plays out the same but it's Credo who drops from the ceiling and shoots Sanctus. Tutorial fight plays out and Credo leaves after making cryptic remarks. As his subordinate, Nero is sent after him but discovers what the Order's been up to at Agnus' lab, heads back to HQ but Kyrie is captured, fights the revived Sanctus but gets captured as well, Credo comes in but is too late to save Nero. Then you play Dante's campaign but as Credo as he goes around destroying the Gates and retrieving Yamato from Agnus. He fights the Savior and delivers the Yamato to Nero who kills Sanctus and saves Kyrie etc etc. Bonus points if during Credo's campaign he reveals that he had met Nero's father, and that's why Nero should keep the Yamato, at the end Credo also reveals he's been in contact with a certain Devil Hunter who convinced him to rebel against Sanctus and will introduce Nero to him some day.

There, you can do the entirety of 4's plot without having Dante/Lady/Trish make a direct appearance. While Dante being in the game puts butts on seats, I still think it would have been better to have him sit out 4 and have Nero meet him proper in 5. Just my two cents.

Maybe have Vergil instead of Credo?

 

[Lain]

Maybe have Vergil instead of Credo?

It doesn't matter either way, that thought experiment was just to examine how relevant Dante and co actually were to the plot.

 

[Demi-fiend]

@Lain

Agreed. Credo would've been a better choice.

 

[V's patron]

@windleopard
I think it could have helped but its still a gamble. Granted I'm not a Nero fan so I could be biased.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Giving my 2 cents and keeping it simple, no. Sure other replies have given several reasons why

 

[tehrugger]

The game could've done without Lady and Trish. But it isn't DMC without Dante.

 

[V's patron]

Not using Dante would help the game out in case it tanks. Its now easier to swipe away than 2.

 

[Picard]

Dante should not have been left out, but Nero should have been more distinct. Honestly, they probably should have made Nero something like V from DMC5, except based on his original concept art:

Make him into a detective type and beastmaster, he can fight with sword and revolver (and they could have been made a single weapon), but he also can absorb and control the demons he had defeated. Physical fighting style would have been based more on evasion and speed, as he would be lot slimmer than Dante, less resillient and more vulnerable to knockback; it would also lack Dante's flair, being based more on precision and speed (so maybe more similar to Vergil's combat style than Dante's); less jumping around and more evading, sidestepping and teleporting. Keep Snatch power of Devil Bringer, but replace Buster with releasing defeated demons that he now controls.

 

[V's patron]

@Picard
How does he get the beastmaster powers? (just out of curiosity)

I thought about giving him the last name Dupin after the Edgar Allen Poe character. Poe created C. Auguste Dupin who was considered the precursor to Sherlock Holmes.

Is he still Vergil's kid in your version? I thought about dropping that aspect completely.

 

[Picard]

@Picard
How does he get the beastmaster powers? (just out of curiosity)

I thought about giving him the last name Dupin after the Edgar Allen Poe character. Poe created C. Auguste Dupin who was considered the precursor to Sherlock Holmes.

Is he still Vergil's kid in your version? I thought about dropping that aspect completely.

Yeah, I'd probably drop whole "Vergil's kid" part. As for getting beastmaster powers, that would just be his demonic nature - he'd be either half-demon or even full demon.

 

[V's patron]

@Picard
I think a halfdemon or a human with magical powers might work better.

@windleopard
Ultimately i prefer V to Nero but i think it be a tossup doing a V spinoff without the others.

I mean I'd buy it but im not sure anyone else would.

So i don't know if taking away Dante/Lady/Trish would make Nero more appealing on his own. You'd have to build him up more because he felt too similar to Dante to really stand out.

 

[Picard]

@V's patron If you go with full human route, you'd need to explain how he got these powers, then. Thank Sparda fo Agnus. :-D It would also mean no regenerating health, so completely different gameplay. Interesting.

 

[V's patron]

@Picard
I gave V a whole backstory before I found out the reveal so not a problem. :wink:

Initially, I thought of Nero going through the same process as Credo and the rest. It's to create greater stakes for Nero and a murkier conflict for Dante and the others.

 

[BrawlMan]

Due to jumping to a new generation....No. Maybe they could get away with not including Lady or Trish, more so the former. A lack of Dante would have lead to a worse backlash than a Dante for half a game.

 

[Picard]

@Picard
I gave V a whole backstory before I found out the reveal so not a problem. :wink:

Initially, I thought of Nero going through the same process as Credo and the rest. It's to create greater stakes for Nero and a murkier conflict for Dante and the others.

Yeah, I had the same idea - that is why I said "Thank Sparda for Agnus". We already know Agnus had been doing a lot of side projects for the Order. So what if Nero had been a side project of his? That might have made for an interesting plot as well as reaction by Credo. Question would then be how to integrate it with whole Saviour stuff, or just drop the Saviour plotline and have something else take its place?

 

[V's patron]

Yeah, I had the same idea - that is why I said "Thank Sparda for Agnus". We already know Agnus had been doing a lot of side projects for the Order. So what if Nero had been a side project of his? That might have made for an interesting plot as well as reaction by Credo. Question would then be how to integrate it with whole Saviour stuff, or just drop the Saviour plotline and have something else take its place?

My bad.

I thought about Credo wanting to bring Nero into the fold so that's how he became a half-demon. Because Nero lost his arm in the demon attack the process gave him a new one. I think you could use the whole Savior plotline but what would be a good replacement for Dante? Nero could be sent after Dante but I don't know if he should succeed so Sanctus needs a backup?

You could always use Vergil as the source material for the Order. Agnus found his corpse and started to use that as a test subject.

I thought 4 and the reboot would be better off as open-world games so if we do a new plot I'd make it more of an open world story.

 

[Lain]

I've been thinking about this myself recently, about how I would make changes even if the Executives said I absolutely must keep Dante/Lady/Trish in the plot.

Ultimately, what I keep coming back to is that by splitting the 20 Mission format into 2 character campaigns, you ultimately do a disservice to both as you can't develop a strong plot nor characters in such a short space of time. And so what I would do is keep Nero as the main character, give him a satisfying 20 Missions (no redone levels) that once you complete can be played through by the other characters with minor changes to allow for platforming and whatnot.

As for the plot, what I would do is lean into the whole "Holy Knight" aspect of 4!Nero's character and have him be more dedicated to hunting demons because of indoctrination since birth. When he fights Dante, he gets a major wound to his right arm and as it heals he finds it turning into the Devil Bringer. He hides it from the others and convinces Credo to let him hunt down Dante (hoping that Dante knows how to turn him back to normal) but Credo only allows Nero to go as long as Gloria takes him under her wing and keeps an eye on him. Whilst journeying together Nero and Gloria bond and she makes him question whether Demons are naturally evil as well as his blind faith in the Order, culminating in seeing what Agnus has been doing on Sanctus' behalf. When Nero returns to HQ he finds that Agnus has exposed Nero's mutation and Credo comes out and boss fight ensues, everything occurs as in 4 until Nero fights Sanctus. Instead of Credo it's Dante who saves Nero only to be absorbed into the Savior. The Savior takes off and Nero is about to fight the Order's henchmen when Lady comes in to save him and slaps him for letting his weakness over Kyrie cause Dante to sacrifice himself, she eventually explains what's been going on (including who his father is), Nero feels indebted to Dante and decides to save him and Kyrie, accepting his demonic heritage and awakening his Devil Trigger. Credo and Gloria Trish catch up and together the quartet set out to clean up Fortuna from the Order and the demons. From then on you spend a couple of Missions with each teammate in turn as a support and bonding with them - earning Lady's trust and respect, making up with Credo and deciding to atone together, with Trish lastly who says she's proud to have had Nero as a student of sorts and he's welcome to join DMC anytime. Eventually it comes to a climax as Trish/Lady/Credo hold the Savior at bay whilst Nero dives into the Savior to rescue Dante/Kyrie. Nero's character arc comes full circle as he confronts Sanctus and achieves the perfect DT that he has in 5 (complete with angel wings for symbolism) before killing Sanctus. Nero/Kyrie/Dante escape the crumbling Savior and Nero is offered a place in DMC but he declines, saying he wants to reform Fortuna from the Order's corrupt touch since he had a hand in it. Once Dante returns to DMC he hears trouble from Morrison that a new demon lord or whatever is resurrecting.

That way you set up five with Dante in case Nero isn't well received, whilst also keeping the door open for his return in case the fans loved him.

Just my musings on what could have been done, feel free to ignore.

 

[BlackAngel]

Honestly I could do without playing as Sparda also Nero would have more purpose if they simply didn't include Dante in 4 and let Nero have his own solo story.

If they're going to do that, at least they should start playing as Vergil. It should start with when he found and fell in love with a woman. He decided to settle down with her and have a child, but he lost her loved one due to demons. As he bear guilt of losing the only person that ever loved him, he left a Nero in the care of Kyrie's family. And be able to play Nero from there.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

If they're going to do that, at least they shoudl start playing as Vergil. It should start with when he found and fell in love with a woman. He decided to settle down with her and have a child, but he lost her loved one due to demons. As he bear guilt of losing the only person that ever loved him, he left a Nero in the care of Kyrie's family. And be able to play Nero from there.

I'd personall try to veer away from the whole "Virgil falling love" with a human woman. I like the idea better that Virgil simply laid with a human woman in a vague attempt to understand and emulate his father Sparda. In his desparate attempt to comprehend why his father would take interest in a being so beneath him he completely misses the point of why what Sparda and Eva shared was so special. Virgil believing that his efforts were a fruitless attempt, feelings he's wasted his time leaves. Unknowingly Virgil concieves Nero who later finds out that he's nowhere near as strong as he was his age consider him a weakling.