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Nero

I'm ok with the idea of him being Vergil's son, just not a fan of how they brought it in or the lack of focus they gave it in the game proper so I'm more aggravated by the sloppyness than curious about the answer.

maybe the new writers/creative team might change my mind.
 
Alright.
I'm ok with the idea of him being Vergil's son, just not a fan of how they brought it in or the lack of focus they gave it in the game proper so I'm more aggravated by the sloppyness than curious about the answer.

maybe the new writers/creative team might change my mind.
It just screams cop out because they're too lazy to explain the walking plot hole that was Nero in a more interesting way.

Seriously, it's such a lazy way to have everything so conveniently connect and definitely is another example of the series's poor writing. And quite frankly I hate how everything ALWAYS revolves around Sparda and his family tree in this world.
 
Alright.

It just screams cop out because they're too lazy to explain the walking plot hole that was Nero in a more interesting way.

Seriously, it's such a lazy way to have everything so conveniently connect and definitely is another example of the series's poor writing. And quite frankly I hate how everything ALWAYS revolves around Sparda and his family tree in this world.
i don't mind when thing go unexplained, exposition is not always the best way to go about things. look at the soul games, the plot is never explained in detail but it is always there within the world. interpretation always leaves a longer impression. i do agree that sparda has been on the spotlight too many times already, no harm in giving Dante his own adventures.
 
@Veloran: Would you like me to create another thread to discuss Nelo, or are you more than happy with the discussion that's happening here? I've got no problem either way, I just thought that since it's your thread you might have preferred we stuck to talking about Nero :)
It's fine.

Alright.

It just screams cop out because they're too lazy to explain the walking plot hole that was Nero in a more interesting way.

Seriously, it's such a lazy way to have everything so conveniently connect and definitely is another example of the series's poor writing. And quite frankly I hate how everything ALWAYS revolves around Sparda and his family tree in this world.
I disagree. Sparda'a bloodline has always been the series' focus, and despite four games and a ton of multimedia stuff there's still a lot of mystery surrounding them all.

Besides, it's not lazy. Did you want some convoluted mess like Nero being the reincarnation of Mundus? (Actual theory suggested to me before.)
 
*crosses fingers hoping DMC5 will fix any/every plothole by Capcom* How awesome would it be if Dante got to Mundus in Hell, fought him and Vergil shows up like he did in the Arkham boss fight? I have too many ideas now. ._.
For what I got from Nero's dream , Vergil would be gentle with him .After all he woke Nero from death.
He tried to kill his own brother in cold blood.
I laughed entirely too hard when I read these.
 
I laughed entirely too hard when I read these.[/QUOTE]

If you read the novel, Nero described the man as having a cold stare and a touch of gentleness/kindness in his persona. After all,our children's lives are more precious than our own, so Vergil just loves the boy.
Dante is only his twin( as if it wasn't important anyway, but whatever!)
 
If you read the novel, Nero described the man as having a cold stare and a touch of gentleness/kindness in his persona. After all,our children's lives are more precious than our own, so Vergil just loves the boy.
Dante is only his twin( as if it wasn't important anyway, but whatever!)
Still hilarious. Might have to pick up the novels.
 
I'm also OK with the idea of Nero being Vergil's son (with time, i started to appreciate more Nero as character and his potential in the series, this helped a lot), but i agree that he's a gigantic plothole to the series and that if someone will really sit tight in a chair to resolve all the incoherences of the plot (not exactly explain everything in detail, this is just boring storytelling and leaves nothing up to discussion and imagination; this seems fit only to really finish a series), they will have a lot of work to explain his existence in a convincing manner.

Although i agree with the various problems @Enigma pointed out about Vergil being Nero's father, what we have from official media is that he is, indeed, Vergil's son; but this can be changed at any moment, but the sames goes for things that can be changed to fit this blood relation with Vergil. I feel that this "Nero is Vergil's son" discussion has pretty much reached its limits, the fanbase already examined every piece of information possible and started to believe in what they find suitable, it's really up to Capcom to clean this mess they made with Nero's background or retcon what they said in this art books in the next games.
 
you know i just realized something
Nero is allot closer to DMC 1 Dante then Dante himself (as in DMC 2 3 and 4 Dante)

i mean think about it

the way he taunts bosses is like DMC 1 Dante he jokes and belittles them
DMC 1 (flock off father face/finally i was getting tired of your childish games)
DMC 4 (i'm just not big on toads/don't you think that's a little harsh? killing me because the way i t-t-t-t-talk?)
but he's still serious for the most part
not as showy/flashy as DMC3 and 4 Dante

also DMC1 Dante and Nero get's really emotional when a loved one is involved

Dante gets really mad when Trish betrays him and when Mundus mocks her thought to be death
Nero gets really mad when Kyrie is being used as a hostage by Agnus

and they both cry when they feel they failed to save said loved one
(tho it's debatable how much of a Loved one Trish is at that point in DMC1)
and funny enough these moments are where both characters are the most ridiculed
"i should have been the one to fill your dark soul with light"
and Nero punching the ground and crying

there pretty similar
i'd say there biggest difference is that Nero uses curse words
what do you guys think
 
A lot of the problems with nero just comes down to how the story was handled so I'm hoping they do turn him around in a sequel anime/comic/game etc.

He's a bit like New Dante as someone describe the story of DmC as feeling unsure of itself and so does Nero when you think about it (granted that's the whole of DMC's story but that's another debate)

So if they were to keep him as Vergil's kid, then have the guts to come out say it and deal with the mess that follows.
 
Alright.

It just screams cop out because they're too lazy to explain the walking plot hole that was Nero in a more interesting way.

Seriously, it's such a lazy way to have everything so conveniently connect and definitely is another example of the series's poor writing. And quite frankly I hate how everything ALWAYS revolves around Sparda and his family tree in this world.
I could go into a rant about how it's lazy and doesn't make sense because of the general timeline of the series (If Vergil visited Fortuna a little over ten years before the game took place, he'd be around the age he was in during DMC3 but basic math says if Nero was conceived then, Nero now should therefore be a little over ten years old. He's not.) but I'm just gonna agree with the body of the quoted comment and add on to that using stuff I've said before (because I feel like I can't get my point across any better than the first time I said it).

Same. It is definitely a cop-out. It's getting tiring having every game revolve around Sparda when the series also goes on about how humans have something 'special' that sets them apart from demons, but DMC3 established humans aren't necessarily morally superior so that's out, and the minute we get a new protagonist in the series he's connected to Sparda, cheapening him and making him part of the Born Special brigade.

It's redundant to even keep including humans as part of the plot and reiterating Sparda's having saved them if they continue to not show what made them worth the effort, and each protagonist is genetically not-entirely-human and/or Sparda-related. Name ONE fully human character in DMC who is still relevant and ask why we haven’t played as them with an actual plot and not as a skin in a special edition. As it stands, humans are either weak (Kyrie) or they’re cowardly (Enzo) or racist (Lady) or “worse than demons” (older Patty Lowell, Arkham, Sanctus, Arius) or they’re dead (Eva, Credo) or irrelevant to the larger narrative (Eva, again). There are more morally bad humans than morally good humans or even bad devils. Three out of four games involve a morally corrupt human doing bad things, and of the good humans that exist, the only use for them is to anchor the superpowered protags, to justify their fight and make them seem better the same way people gravitate towards the hero that saves a puppy. They're just morality pets.

Being born a devil or partblooded is a free pass to being considered a hero (and even growing more powerful than they started!) as long as they do something tangentially related to “protecting humans”-- even if humans die as a direct result of that character's stupidity (I’m looking at you, Trish). None of the protags ever really have to question whether they need all that power or whether it’ll corrupt them. Lucia questioned herself but it was more about the fact that she was directly created by an evil guy, she had no problem being a partblood the natural way. Nero didn't question a thing about himself aside from whether Kyrie would accept him; despite being "the same age Dante is in DMC3" he has the character arc of DMC1 Dante-- that is to say, minimal development. He decided even before DMC4 started that he'd do whatever it took to protect Kyrie even if it meant giving up his humanity and being exiled from his own town. Of course because he's the protag, related to Sparda, and defending a human, the possibility that he might actually lose himself never really happens, and Kyrie doesn't know anyone who is "as human" as he is. Not even her brother.

Humans getting more powerful, though? Like, actual born humans attaining demonic power? Every single one that's tried is the villain and that's not a coincidence. It's to paint that route as automatically evil and not an option. Not even having good intentions, or being misguided through direct deception on the part of the villain can bail a character out once they choose that. They die too! No chance at redemption, ever, unless it means death. (Forever bitter about Credo...)

So, 'being born a demon' isn't a bad thing, but becoming one is awful. 'Attaining/embracing humanity' is a good thing, but if the character was born human from the get-go, chances are they're a villain or about to be, otherwise the story doesn't actually revolve around them. They're not the major players. Lady's arc ended with Dante beating her up to convince her not to go forward with her revenge because her determination and humanity wasn't enough, and she only got to shoot Arkham once Dante and Vergil did most of the work and left him crippled at her feet. Anyone remember that? Yeah. That happened.

The end result of this is that humanity is perpetually dependent on a 2000+-year-old dead guy, his halfbreed spawn, and now a quarter-blood to bail them out of supernatural stuff because the humans don’t know any better and can’t do any better. They can’t actively seek out a cure for their weakness, not even to protect other people because “power is bad, ambition is terrible”, yet who are we playing as again? Ah yes, powerful supernatural beings. The plot revolves around a full demon, not a human. "Power is bad" as long as people seek it, if they're born with it, they're good to go. The heroes sure aren't getting in line to de-power themselves anytime soon.

What’s funny is that Sparda did that de-powering thing “in ancient times” but then it’s never mentioned again. It’s not that big a deal in the game they brought that up in. Arkham getting out of control and turning into his blob form was just “because he was just that evil” not “because the power of Sparda itself corrupted him regardless of his morality”. The reason Sparda sealed his power at all was because he thought the power itself would make him bad, right? Cause the rest of the games don't show it. If anything we get more proof that the power of Sparda is sapient-- it knows who it’s being wielded by, their intentions, and therefore whether it should unlock its full potential around them or not– it’s never ever directly helped a villain defeat the hero before and that’s the exact opposite of an evil/corrupting presence.

So, back to Nero. He could've been a great character. Now he's just another partblood with a genetic ticket for 'humanity' built in by his connection to Sparda, Sparda being the devil that 'woke up to justice' and defended humans for nebulous reasons not explored in the four games, two special editions, and countless artbooks that have come out and those novels. We still dont know why he did any of that (aside from maybe pity), but he did. We just get hints and teases at it because Dante read a volume on 'How to Be Cryptic' written by Vergil himself and contributed nothing. Sparda is supposed to be a mystery? They should do us a favor and stop bringing him up in every single game. Focus on someone else. Give us someone else. I'm getting tired of the heroes living under Sparda's shadow.
 
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@Morgan
Damn, you've summed up my feelings about the depiction of humans in this series completely.

-Back on topic-
I'm not sure I like where Nero's character arc is going. He's kinda becoming Dante 2.0, I preferred his more anti-social streak at the beginning. Reminded me of Vergil a little, and I hoped that Nero would show what Vergil could have become had he not chose Powah! over everything else. Just my two cents.
 
@Morgan
You misunderstood completely.

The reason why humans who seek the power of Sparda are depicted as bad is not because "only being born with power is good, if you wanna gain it, it's bad", it's because those humans who wanted it, looked for it for bad intentions.

It's not "power is bad as long as people seek it", it's "power is bad as long as people seek it for evil". Nero, for example, gained his devilish arm pursuing a good cause (protecting his loved one), and he did good things with it.

Likewise, your point about "being born a demon is good, becoming one is awful". That's evidently false at first glance. Mundus is "born a demon" but he's not any good. While Credo, for example, becomes demon, but he is good. It's the same as earlier: the games don't show that becoming a demon in itself is a bad thing, they show that evil motivations that drive you to do so are a bad thing.

That's why your point falls apart.
 
(If Vergil visited Fortuna a little over ten years before the game took place, he'd be around the age he was in during DMC3 but basic math says if Nero was conceived then, Nero now should therefore be a little over ten years old. He's not.)
How are we even still doing this.


the series also goes on about how humans have something 'special' that sets them apart from demons,

It's heart. Love, emotions, the capacity for great good and great evil. The thing that makes Sparda such a standout is that he also portrayed this and viewed it as an admirable trait despite being an all-powerful Demon that really had no reason to.

And it's not some great mystery why the protagonists keep being partly Demonic either - All the gameplay of the series is built around that. Having a Human player character means necessitating a completely different combat system and upgrade path, and Lady exemplifies this by having a much different (Read: Inferior and gameplay limiting) combat style.

The reason Sparda sealed his power at all was because he thought the power itself would make him bad, right?

Actually, no. The intro to DMC3 suggests it was more of a side-effect, wherein that because the Demon world was sealed away from the Human world, Sparda's power was sealed too. There could be a dozen reasons why specifically or how it played out, but that is the rundown.

I'm getting tired of the heroes living under Sparda's shadow.

I could go for like three or four more games of it.

Basically, Sparda and his bloodline is the lynchpin of the DMC universe. They very much the main thing that makes it interesting. Other than them and the events that run through their lives, it's actually sort of a dull setting, based in a simple AU Earth with the addition of Demons. To move away from the family line they'd need to invent or greatly expand on the cosmology.

Which is probably a bad move. I don't think anyone's favorite moments in Bayonetta were where ten minute slideshows explained the Eyes of the World.
 
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