Kat Useless or Not

[Innsmouth]

Except I don't think it's the magnum opus of gaming. I have very good reasons as to why I hate DMC 4 but that doesn't mean I like DmC the best. My favorite of them all is STILL THE FIRST GAME.

Well it's still means that hating on any game in franchise (or to be precisely only on Dmc, since it's fine if it's one of original games) makes you fanboy. I say one more time. I don't hate DmC. I don't like it though and was extremely disappointed by it.

I was just simply proving why you were wrong about Kat using things from the game to back it up unlike you who only uses whatever will benefit your babble totally ignoring the context of said "evidence" and ignoring everything that just once again proves you wrong.

Well I also named you more than enough stuff from game itself, which you pretty much ignored. You can't say she can survive on her own without any help from anyone because it simply wouldn't be true, as shown by the game itself. But than you can't also call her independent person, because she NEEDS others to survive.

And me saying you haven't played it wasn't because you don't like it. It's because you come in these discussions and you can never even keep your story straight. There's a lot of things you simply miss about about the game and even in the Vergil thread people pointed out your inconsistencies. It doesn't add up.
.

Even if I miss certain things, its mostly because I played game 1,5 year ago and never replayed it since than, so I can forget one thing or the other. I have my own opinion on DmC, and I frankly don't feel any need to justify it because somebody dislikes it.

 

[The Final Offer]

Well it's still means that hating on any game in franchise (or to be precisely only on Dmc, since it's fine if it's one of original games) makes you fanboy. I say one more time. I don't hate DmC. I don't like it though and was extremely disappointed by it.

Well I also named you more than enough stuff from game itself, which you pretty much ignored. You can't say she can survive on her own without any help from anyone because it simply wouldn't be true, as shown by the game itself. But than you can't also call her independent person, because she NEEDS others to survive.
Even if I miss certain things, its mostly because I played game 1,5 year ago and never replayed it since than, so I can forget one thing or the other. I have my own opinion on DmC, and I frankly don't feel any need to justify it because somebody dislikes it.

"I have my own opinion about DmC......and I don't listen to the facts that could change it. "-Innsmouth

 

[Chancey289]

She acts as guidance for him, because if not for his sympathy for her he probably wouldn't bothered with order or anything they do. Without his sympathy for her, he probably would have beaten up demons on streets, but I don't think he learned to care for humans otherwise. It's extremely clear, because he didn't showed regard to other humans in game, aside from her, until end, where he decided to protect them So as part of the plot she had her role, and I can't deny nor I want to do it. (though I don't think he felt quite like a hero, since he questions himself in the end).
Yet I still felt, that she was underdeveloped compared to Dante or Vergil, and could have become much stronger individual, if her role wasn't reduced into damsel in distress in second half of the game. It's like we getting to know her backstory, and than before her relations with Dante gets to flesh out, whole attack on HQ happens, and we don't hear from her till the end, which robs her of her importance as an individual.

Dante cared for humanity! Just because he didn't interact and say hi to every human being on the planet that doesn't mean he didn't give a sh!t. If he didn't, then why keep fighting?

And what sympathy does Kat ask for? That is coming out of left field and not making any sense. Kat is not some depressive emo girl looking for pity parties. She's more headstrong than that.

You would be a terrible story teller because it's like you want everything spelled out for you on a silver platter in the most blatant and straightforward way possible. When you're trying to tell a story you don't only tell, but show. From the tones in their voice, to body language, it speaks volumes of their character than just the words from their mouth.

And her relationship with Dante was purely platonic and in the beginning she didn't even like him. She didn't trust Dante and thought he was just a jerk.

Kat was not a damsel in distress. When she was captured she was expecting to die and was WILLING to for the Order's cause. She suffered through torture keeping Vergil's existence a secret and you call her a weak and dependent little kitty cat? Mundus kept her alive because he wanted to bring Dante and his crew to him but, Dante turned the tables and got him on their level when he took Lillith.

The damsel in distress in Devil May Cry was Kyrie. Just because Kat wasn't a fighter it doesn't mean she wasn't strong in her own right. You're kinda being a little misogynistic when talking about Kat chalking her up as a weak girl needing to be protected where considering everything she must have done for the Order up until that point you can assume she knew how to get herself out of a sticky situation because she was smarter than the muscle needed to get down and dirty.

 

[Blue_Rose]

Kat is useful because Vergil said so and Vergil's word is law. End of story. Just kidding.

She was an actual character. She was a damaged girl that did everything she could to get rid of what ruined her life from the world. She held out under Mundus' torture and protected Vergil. Maybe she didn't fight physically but she definitely helped the Order.

 

[Innsmouth]

Dante cared for humanity! Just because he didn't interact and say hi to every human being on the planet that doesn't mean he didn't give a sh!t. If he didn't, then why keep fighting?

Well...what? He was captured and tortured by demons since childhood, what else should he do? Unless he was crybaby, of course he hunted and killed them in return. But before he met and get known Kat better, he was acting pretty indifferent to outside world. Or you gonna deny Kat's her purpose to learn Dante to care?

And what sympathy does Kat ask for? That is coming out of left field and not making any sense. Kat is not some depressive emo girl looking for pity parties. She's more headstrong than that.

Huh? they gone through similar crap, only Dante had it easier since he was strong enough to crawl from it'S on his own. Or do you think you can sympathize with someone only when somebody cries on your shoulder?.....I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

Kat was not a damsel in distress. When she was captured she was expecting to die and was WILLING to for the Order's cause. She suffered through torture keeping Vergil's existence a secret and you call her a weak and dependent little kitty cat? Mundus kept her alive because he wanted to bring Dante and his crew to him but, Dante turned the tables and got him on their level when he took Lillith.

The damsel in distress in Devil May Cry was Kyrie. Just because Kat wasn't a fighter it doesn't mean she wasn't strong in her own right. You're kinda being a little misogynistic when talking about Kat chalking her up as a weak girl needing to be protected where considering everything she must have done for the Order up until that point you can assume she knew how to get herself out of a sticky situation because she was smarter than the muscle needed to get down and dirty.

Well you need to have save her at least twice in game. Once in HQ and throughout HQ attack and second time, obviously from Mundus. After HQ she pretty much not present in game till the very end, where she gives Dante directions in tower and very last mission. So that's left me with a very little impression on her character.

My whole problem with claim that she's strong individual, not that she can't blast everyone with guns, magic or whatever. It's how game itself treats her. She helps you at the start, but dialogue before final fight shows that nobody really listens to her. After Vergil revelation, they pretty much arguing with Dante, with Vergil ignoring any attempt for her to say a word, until just screaming on her to shut down, after which she crouches and fades for Dante to kick Vergil's ass. IMO its not a way to show strong character.

Because in case where she gets treated as dirt by Vergil, she didn't retaliate, but just lefts everything on Dante. I don't think she should have tried to kick Vergils ass or something, it would have been suicide, but she can at least tell him what she thinks about him and his grand plan for humanity. As for Kyrie, she was just empty space imo. She didn't had anything at all, not even decent meaning for the plot.

I don't consider it's misogynistic, because it was writers decision to use her as trade bait. Not Vergil for example, but her. IT's gets kinda predictable, that if somebody should be saved that's a girl :/ I know Mundus didn't know about Vergil, yet still choice fallen on girl.

 

[The Final Offer]

Well...what? He was captured and tortured by demons since childhood, what else should he do? Unless he was crybaby, of course he hunted and killed them in return. But before he met and get known Kat better, he was acting pretty indifferent to outside world. Or you gonna deny Kat's her purpose to learn Dante to care?

Huh? they gone through similar crap, only Dante had it easier since he was strong enough to crawl from it'S on his own. Or do you think you can sympathize with someone only when somebody cries on your shoulder?.....I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.


Well you need to have save her at least twice in game. Once in HQ and throughout HQ attack and second time, obviously from Mundus. After HQ she pretty much not present in game till the very end, where she gives Dante directions in tower and very last mission. So that's left me with a very little impression on her character.

My whole problem with claim that she's strong individual, not that she can't blast everyone with guns, magic or whatever. It's how game itself treats her. She helps you at the start, but dialogue before final fight shows that nobody really listens to her. After Vergil revelation, they pretty much arguing with Dante, with Vergil ignoring any attempt for her to say a word, until just screaming on her to shut down, after which she crouches and fades for Dante to kick Vergil's ass. IMO its not a way to show strong character.

Because in case where she gets treated as dirt by Vergil, she didn't retaliate, but just lefts everything on Dante. I don't think she should have tried to kick Vergils ass or something, it would have been suicide, but she can at least tell him what she thinks about him and his grand plan for humanity. As for Kyrie, she was just empty space imo. She didn't had anything at all, not even decent meaning for the plot.

I don't consider it's misogynistic, because it was writers decision to use her as trade bait. Not Vergil for example, but her. IT's gets kinda predictable, that if somebody should be saved that's a girl :/ I know Mundus didn't know about Vergil, yet still choice fallen on girl.

Hey! Now there's a good idea! Keep talking s*** to a Nephilim that can teleport and kill you at anytime.

"Stay out of this!" Is a clear sign that he's threatening her existence. At that moment, she doesn't know who could win or if Dante can even stop Vergil's speed. She was wise to let Vergil and Dante settle it for if she were a Nephilim herself, she would've kept talking.

 

[Chancey289]

Tag, anyone want to step in a prove once again why he's wrong?

 

[InfernalOverkill]

None of them are ever really given that much to do even when it comes to the plot and look at how they're dressed. Lady is a demon hunter wearing some of the most impractical clothing imaginable oh yea, because she's pretty much an otaku wet dream.

Kat dresses like an average girl and was actually a key component to the events in the story. Just because she's not a fighter, it doesn't mean she was useless. She did a hell of a lot more than any other girl who just pop in and out.

Kat dresses like an average girl, but it's still [very tamely] sexualised. Trish's look isn't some ridiculous thing that you'd never see in real life; corsets and leather were all the rage with a lot of the goth birds I knew years ago. I can't say that I've ever seen a biker chick in a corset, which is obviously what they went for with Trish, but the "black leather is all I own" fits there quite well.

Have you seen how Dante and Vergil dress? It's not really a valid complaint when literally everyone else in the game is guilty of it too.

Simply put, you are a stubborn and extremely biased fanboy that hates DmC with so much of a passion you are willing to reach as far as you can in an attempt to come up with anything to go against it.

The hypocrisy hurts

 

[Chancey289]

Kat dresses like an average girl, but it's still [very tamely] sexualised. Trish's look isn't some ridiculous thing that you'd never see in real life; corsets and leather were all the rage with a lot of the goth birds I knew years ago. I can't say that I've ever seen a biker chick in a corset, which is obviously what they went for with Trish, but the "black leather is all I own" fits there quite well.

Have you seen how Dante and Vergil dress? It's not really a valid complaint when literally everyone else in the game is guilty of it too.



The hypocrisy hurts

A hoodie and short shorts. Seems like what a typical girl at my local mall would be walking around in. Wouldn't really call that sexualization.

Girls like Lady just HAVE to wear the schoolgirl outfit with a short mini skirt. Um, yea, that's something I would get me gal to wear if we were having a fun night of roleplay and stuff. *if you know what I mean*

And how Dante a Vergil dress? Well, they dress all flamboyant basically with Vergil looking like a dumb pirate but, Dante has in the past had his muscles and all showing and that isn't sexualization. What it is is an extension of a male power fantasy. There IS a problem with how women and men are represented in games and just because a man is walking around with his shirt off it doesn't mean he's sexualized. You have them being male power fantasies while the women are subjected to skimpy clothing and games with a creeping camera man.

It's why Devil May Cry has scenes like this

Do you see a scene like that with Dante dancing around with a camera trying to get shots in of his crotch? Of course not, it would make the typical teenage boys that are assumed to be the general audience of this kind of game quite uncomfortable.

The gaming industry still has a LOT of growing up to do. Is it sexist to assume teenage boys are the general audience, eh maybe not completely but definitely cynical. The gaming industry is still an immature stupid little boy basically.

And if you're gonna sport big words around like "hypocrisy" then make sure you make sense. Where have I been a hypocrite?

 

[WolfOD64]

Trish's look isn't some ridiculous thing that you'd never see in real life; corsets and leather were all the rage with a lot of the goth birds I knew years ago. I can't say that I've ever seen a biker chick in a corset, which is obviously what they went for with Trish, but the "black leather is all I own" fits there quite well.

Dude, as someone who was one of the afore-mentioned "goth birds", and was actively around Goths before and after DMC's period of release, I can guarantee you that no one I knew wore a corset. There were a lot of styles implemented back then, some of them diving into the really extreme, but most girls never drew that kind of attention to themselves, ESPECIALLY if they were Goths. The only people in the area that dressed like that were the local prostitutes.

Trish's fashion sense is ideal for cosplaying, but for day-to-day casual wear? I know you're trying to defend the flamboyant style of the original games, but Good God---don't delude yourself into thinking the Otaku Conventuon apparel and one-dimensional personalities have any place in REAL life. It's like defending Bayonetta's non-existent story by comparing it to the works of Tennyson.

That's just pathetic.

 

[Loopy]

Do you see a scene like that with Dante dancing around with a camera trying to get shots in of his crotch? Of course not, it would make the typical teenage boys that are assumed to be the general audience of this kind of game quite uncomfortable.

I wish we did have a scene like that with Dante. :wink: It would even up the playing field. Guys get Lady and the other women. Then the female gamers get to look at Dante and Vergil. Nero doesn't count...he's a child. :tongue:

Dude, as someone who was one of the afore-mentioned "goth birds", and was actively around Goths before and after DMC's period of release, I can guarantee you that no one I knew wore a corset.

Depends who you associate with. My friends wear corsets when they go to clubs. I do too. None of us are prostitutes. It's just part of the dress code. :wink:

I'm not saying that what Trish wears is good daytime wear, but people do wear things like that. Having said that, I don't think anyone would wear her Gloria outfit anywhere but at an anime convention. That outfit is really out there. :tongue:

 

[The Final Offer]

Kat dresses like an average girl, but it's still [very tamely] sexualised. Trish's look isn't some ridiculous thing that you'd never see in real life; corsets and leather were all the rage with a lot of the goth birds I knew years ago. I can't say that I've ever seen a biker chick in a corset, which is obviously what they went for with Trish, but the "black leather is all I own" fits there quite well.

Have you seen how Dante and Vergil dress? It's not really a valid complaint when literally everyone else in the game is guilty of it too.



The hypocrisy hurts

I thought Trish was Mundus's sex slave....

This entire time I thought she was wearing that to insinuate that she was. MY BRAIN! MY BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN!

Then we got Kyrie....in a dress...meh.

Lucia in...pants? Pass.

Kat in short shorts....o....k..

Then we got Mary's schoolgirl outfit!

Spoiler

 

[Chancey289]

I'm not saying that what Trish wears is good daytime wear, but people do wear things like that. Having said that, I don't think anyone would wear her Gloria outfit anywhere but at an anime convention. That outfit is really out there. :tongue:

Gloria seems like Lady Gaga's casual wear.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Well I will be cursed for 1000 years...

...Listen guys, girls and anything inbetween. DmC is JUST a game, with a story. Wow, I never knew. And before a lot of you shoot off your rightful opinions, I think it's a nice time for me to mention something. Kat wouldn't be in the game if she wasn't in some way useful. The same applies for every character. Each character is useful to a degree given the nature and cause for them to be in the story. Gee, fair enough if you write a character that has the brain functionality (also a big word, may I be so bold to say) as a lemon. Say a man called Fred who does nothing but stand still...

...Kat, Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Lilith and Dillon who was an unmentioned guy who worked at the Virility factory. He uses sarcasm to make points They were all useful given the ways in which they were portrayed through DmC's story. This is coming across as some war to find reasoning behind certain character's actions. That's called character development, building each character into and around a story and giving them their own personality, look, style, structure and goals. They're all useful to building up the story. Kat included.

 

[The Final Offer]

Well I will be cursed for 1000 years...

...Listen guys, girls and anything inbetween. DmC is JUST a game, with a story. Wow, I never knew. And before a lot of you shoot off your rightful opinions, I think it's a nice time for me to mention something. Kat wouldn't be in the game if she wasn't in some way useful. The same applies for every character. Each character is useful to a degree given the nature and cause for them to be in the story. Gee, fair enough if you write a character that has the brain functionality (also a big word, may I be so bold to say) as a lemon. Say a man called Fred who does nothing but stand still...

...Kat, Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Lilith and Dillon who was an unmentioned guy who worked at the Virility factory. He uses sarcasm to make points They were all useful given the ways in which they were portrayed through DmC's story. This is coming across as some war to find reasoning behind certain character's actions. That's called character development, building each character into and around a story and giving them their own personality, look, style, structure and goals. They're all useful to building up the story. Kat included.

"If they aren't DMC characters they are useless. That's my opinion." -Innsmouth

 

[LordOfDarkness]

"If they aren't DMC characters they are useless. That's my opinion." -Innsmouth

Is this a sarcastic made up quote, or a genuine one? :\

 

[Demi-fiend]

I'm gonna go with 'genuine' here.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I'm gonna go with 'genuine' here.

Now I truly know the definition of facepalm -.-

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Well I will be cursed for 1000 years...

...Listen guys, girls and anything inbetween. DmC is JUST a game, with a story. Wow, I never knew. And before a lot of you shoot off your rightful opinions, I think it's a nice time for me to mention something. Kat wouldn't be in the game if she wasn't in some way useful. The same applies for every character. Each character is useful to a degree given the nature and cause for them to be in the story. Gee, fair enough if you write a character that has the brain functionality (also a big word, may I be so bold to say) as a lemon. Say a man called Fred who does nothing but stand still...

...Kat, Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Lilith and Dillon who was an unmentioned guy who worked at the Virility factory. He uses sarcasm to make points They were all useful given the ways in which they were portrayed through DmC's story. This is coming across as some war to find reasoning behind certain character's actions. That's called character development, building each character into and around a story and giving them their own personality, look, style, structure and goals. They're all useful to building up the story. Kat included.

This a site where people are meant to discuss and express their views on the DMC Franchise.
So it's only natural people are going to have differing views on it.

So, relax
A little civil debate never hurt anybody.:wink:

 

[WolfOD64]

Depends who you associate with. My friends wear corsets when they go to clubs. I do too. None of us are prostitutes. It's just part of the dress code. :wink:

I'm not saying that what Trish wears is good daytime wear, but people do wear things like that. Having said that, I don't think anyone would wear her Gloria outfit anywhere but at an anime convention. That outfit is really out there. :tongue:

Whoa, now, I was talking about wearing them at the time, not nowadays. Back then (or at least in the Goth community I was in) it wasn't considered creative to just dive in with a corset. It wasn't fashionable, and given the other group of people wearing them around town, it gave the wrong impression.

But times have changed...I've actually seen pull off both reserved and subtle appeal in them. My ex used to wear them with a Biker jacket just like Trish...unfortunately, she never cut Trish's lightning-bolt shape down the front...despite my repeated insistence. :shifty: