Kat Useless or Not

[Innsmouth]

So. Does. Sebastian. And it's orders he's following anyway. No matter how you slice it an order is an order and both follow it to the letter. Sebastian doesn't follow orders his own way, he does them the way Ciel says to do it by the orders given. The only difference is that Sebastian's a demon and Kat's human..

Most plans are made and put i motion by Sebastian. Ciel says what he wants, Sebastian makes plan and puts it into motion. Vergil makes plan and says what Kat has to do. Kat does that. In opposition to Sebastian, Kat is lowest link in chain. You can rather compare her to other servants of Ciel. They saved Ciel, they care about him, but they aren't important as characters

So you're gonna ignore Kat's talks with Dante about her views on virility, Vergil, her nightmares, her past, she being Dante's first friend, Kat siding with Dante in Vergil's betrayal, and at the end Kat comforting Dante. If you ask me, that's Kat expressing herself and showing her personality.

I don't remember what she told about virility, as for rest all she does is told her backstory, but it won't say anything about her personality. All we know is that her father raped her and Vergil helped her to deal with him, so for the rest of game, she strictly follows what Vergil does. She's just underdeveloped, since plot just didn't add much value to her personality. You can literally make her into everything you want from this point onward, since she doesn'T has any goal or conviction on her own.

SO DOES EVERY CHARACTER EVER CREATED.

I already said, Lady/Trish may come and go when they want. They aren't bound to anybody else. As for Kat she completely depends on Vergil (and probably on Dante now if they make anything else about her)

 

[WolfOD64]

True Kat is eye candy, but there's a difference between assshots and upshirts compared to pantyless heroines, open chested jackets, actual bouncing boobs, and pulling items out of boobs.

Essentially, whatever fan service Kat provides isn't nearly as blatant and compromising of her character like Trish or Lady. Her in-game appeal---like a lot of the elements in DmC---is executed a lot more subtly.

So? And what was DMC1-4? It does the same thing with anime fans with its anime like protaganist, the J-movie style, the matrix affects, the "religion can be evil too" story of DMC4, the Inuyasha camp of DMC3, and the so-called catering to a female audience with a damsel in distress, a pantyless woman, two able female characters who just stand around and look pretty, and a demoness who throws her children at her enemies like abortions.

Exactly. People are really quick to label the anti-industrial undertones of DmC (and not in a very intelligent manner, as Infernal Overkill so clearly demonstrated), but will act like the 2-dimensional Shonen Jumper's wet dream that is the DMC franchise boasts infinitely superior artistic merit.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Most plans are made and put i motion by Sebastian. Ciel says what he wants, Sebastian makes plan and puts it into motion. Vergil makes plan and says what Kat has to do. Kat does that. In opposition to Sebastian, Kat is lowest link in chain. You can rather compare her to other servants of Ciel. They saved Ciel, they care about him, but they aren't important as characters

Again, it's still him following a given order set by someone which is what both Kat and Sebastian do. The way they do it may be different, but the fact remains that they both still follow an order requested by the person they work for. YOu said characters who only follow orders are useless. However what you really should be saying is a character who follows orders BUT DOESN'T DO IT THEIR OWN WAY is useless, and even then you're still wrong in that regard. But it's opinions so its whatever.

I don't remember what she told about virility, as for rest all she does is told her backstory, but it won't say anything about her personality. All we know is that her father raped her and Vergil helped her to deal with him, so for the rest of game, she strictly follows what Vergil does. She's just underdeveloped, since plot just didn't add much value to her personality. You can literally make her into everything you want from this point onward, since she doesn'T has any goal or conviction on her own.

So what, do you expect her to just jump out and tell jokes or do cartwheels to prove she has a personality? Not EVERY female in the world is going to have a happy go lucky, gun-ho personality. If we speak in that regard then that's no different then any character whose reserved. A character doesn't need to throw their emotions out there all the time. Kat is a character whose naturally reserved and prefers to keep her emotions from reaching a surface in the presence of Vergil and the field. We see this by how more lax she is around Dante and Dante alone. And how could you say she has no goal? Do you not remember "I killed the bastard now I wanna deal with them all"? That's called a goal.

I already said, Lady/Trish may come and go when they want. They aren't bound to anybody else. As for Kat she completely depends on Vergil (and probably on Dante now if they make anything else about her)

But they come when the plot calls for it and are at the mercy of the plot because THEY. ARE. CHARACTERS. When a character is needed, the person in charge puts them there. Kat WORKS for Vergil and is in debt to him because he saved her life and is close to Dante because they're good friends.

Working and being in debt to someone who helped you and saved you DOES NOT equal a useless character.

Exactly. People are really quick to label the anti-industrial undertones of DmC (and not in a very intelligent manner, as Infernal Overkill so clearly demonstrated), but will act like the 2-dimensional Shonen Jumper's wet dream that is the DMC franchise boasts infinitely superior artistic merit.

It's not like there's anything wrong with it and anyone is entitled to enjoy that brand of media. He can watch and play it all he wants. It's no skin off his nose what people think. But what is wrong is someone convicting another media for being cliche and stereotypical but not even accept the media you like is just as cliche.

 

[Innsmouth]

So what, do you expect her to just jump out and tell jokes or do cartwheels to prove she has a personality? Not EVERY female in the world is going to have a happy go lucky, gun-ho personality. If we speak in that regard then that's no different then any character whose reserved. A character doesn't need to throw their emotions out there all the time. Kat is a character whose naturally reserved and prefers to keep her emotions from reaching a surface in the presence of Vergil and the field. We see this by how more lax she is around Dante and Dante alone. And how could you say she has no goal? Do you not remember "I killed the bastard now I wanna deal with them all"? That's called a goal.

But that's a goal given, nurtured and kept intact by Vergil. As for being more lax around only Dante, we usually see her with only Dante around. And when she is with Vergil she usually quite, because like I said, she's last chain in the chain.

But they come when the plot calls for it and are at the mercy of the plot because THEY. ARE. CHARACTERS. When a character is needed, the person in charge puts them there. Kat WORKS for Vergil and is in debt to him because he saved her life and is close to Dante because they're good friends.

She depends on Dante. Because without him she pretty much can'T do anything.She completely dependent character, who lacking not only strength, but also will to put any course to any actions.

Working and being in debt to someone who helped you and saved you DOES NOT equal a useless character.

Lacking any will of her own does.

 

[The Final Offer]

Innsmouth is so wrong.

Did you even read DmC Vergil Chronicles? You do know it's about how Vergil and Kat met right?

The problem with you is you don't see the value in Kat. You're not ready to argue these things because, you don't even know what was going on. We have to tell you. We have to EXPLAIN it to you.

Vergil and Dante had to rely on Kat. Vergil needed Kat. Dante needed Kat. Kat needed Dante. Kat needed Vergil. Vergil needed Dante. Dante needed Vergil.

I know I just confused you Innsmouth. So I'll explain it to you further. They all have a common goal and they all work together to achieve that goal. You wouldn't know of this because you obviously haven't experienced being picked for sports in P.E class.

Anyways!

Let me tell you what you're trying to say to us Innsmouth. You're trying to say that because a character chooses on their own accord to follow someone, they are useless. So! You're saying all of the Ninja Turtles except Leo and Raph are useless. Yeah, no one is going to agree with you.

Now everyone watch as I make Innsmouth's bull**** disappear!​

In DmC there's a mission called "The Plan". "The Plan" consists of a mission briefing. The mission briefing is from Kat. Here are her words, line for line no other character words out. I just made em all one sentence just to break it down further for you.

"So the Hell Gate is the main source of Mundus's power...It can only be reached from his chamber."
"You must break into the chamber and close the Hell Gate."
"Mundus is still weak from his last outburst. This is your chance to defeat him."
"Mundus doesn't know that Vergil is Nephilim. We can use that to our advantage."
"There's a backdoor into the tower located here."
"Vergil, you must reach the security room undetected."
"So Dante, you will create a distraction...here."

Did she just...omg she did. She acted on her own and then ordered ORDERED Dante and Vergil to deliver on their end.

Kat
is
A
BOSS​

 

[Chancey289]

I know this post is almost a year old, but the thread got necro'd so what the hell.

Hmm? Who exactly qualifies as eye candy in the original series? Trish and Lady were huge parts of the plot. Lucia's role had similarities with Kat's; finding Dante and getting him to help, turning him from an arse to someone who cared enough to help, filling him in on the game's plot, etc. Matier was basically Lucia's Vergil. DMC4 is the only game where you can honestly say that they were just there for eye candy.

None of them are ever really given that much to do even when it comes to the plot and look at how they're dressed. Lady is a demon hunter wearing some of the most impractical clothing imaginable oh yea, because she's pretty much an otaku wet dream.

Kat dresses like an average girl and was actually a key component to the events in the story. Just because she's not a fighter, it doesn't mean she was useless. She did a hell of a lot more than any other girl who just pop in and out.

 

[Chancey289]

Like hell is Kat dependent on people. She risk her life plenty of times and was willing to sacrifice herself for the sake of not jeopardizing the mission or Vergil's secrecy. Vergil was wrong because he just thought of her as expendable where it's true that if it wasn't for her, Dante and Vergil would have failed 20 times over.

Her skills and courage benefited the two and they wouldn't have won without her.

So f#ck that thinking she's dependent. Kat suffered through torture and was willing to die for their cause. If you think that's some dependent little kitty kat who needs a babysitter then, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong.

 

[Chancey289]

She depends on Dante. Because without him she pretty much can'T do anything.She completely dependent character, who lacking not only strength, but also will to put any course to any actions.

Lacking any will of her own does.

Sure she's totally dependent on Dante. I mean, she only saved Dante's life in the first level of the game alerting him of the Hunter demon and throwing that mystical bottle in his face allowing Dante to defeat him. Or how about when she guided him through the Virility factory leading him to the succubus. It's not like her using her magic and stuff was the key component to him even reaching the mixing room and all that good stuff.

So yea, Kat is TOTTALLY dependent on Dante despite being the one that actually helped them get their sh!t done and without her they would have just died. :meh:

And lacking any will of her own? She believe in their cause. She is fighting with them for humanity. Not because she's some freaking slave to their team. She wants to free humanity just as much as the rest of them. Her wanting to help in the fight against the demons IS her will. It's not like she was drafted in to this sh!t.

 

[Innsmouth]

Sure she's totally dependent on Dante. I mean, she only saved Dante's life in the first level of the game alerting him of the Hunter demon and throwing that mystical bottle in his face allowing Dante to defeat him. Or how about when she guided him through the Virility factory leading him to the succubus. It's not like her using her magic and stuff was the key component to him even reaching the mixing room and all that good stuff.

So yea, Kat is TOTTALLY dependent on Dante despite being the one that actually helped them get their sh!t done and without her they would have just died. :meh:

And lacking any will of her own? She believe in their cause. She is fighting with them for humanity. Not because she's some freaking slave to their team. She wants to free humanity just as much as the rest of them. Her wanting to help in the fight against the demons IS her will. It's not like she was drafted in to this sh!t.

Yeah and than we have attack on their headquarters, where she did nothing but whine and cry all the way long, and when Vergil said her "jump and do as I told", she did exactly it and cared about his computer till bitter end.. She literally helpless on her own. If she throw that bottle in Hunters face and Dante wasn't there (which she once again did because Vergil sent her), she'd be dead. If she entered Virility storage on her own, she couldn't do a thing. She's a tool, but without Dante or Verigl at her side, she can't do nothing.
When Vergil brushed her off in the end, all she can do is to stay there shocked with realization and let Dante handle him. Her voice barely mattered in the end. And yes, she was forced into the whole mess, basically because of the situation she was in ( if she didn't, her stepfather would have continued to rape and probably eventually kill her). So it's not like she had that much choice.
And as her whole signs ability, interestingly enough when she was captured, Vergil opened rift and left Limbo just fine without her, meaning it wasn't her personal ability, just spell he taught her.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

...Erm, erp eh derp...

Kat is NOT useless.

There are too many key points that make her useful. Dante even realises and acknowledges that they couldn't of done it without her help. Her knowledge, her magic, her resilience to torture and her will.

Kat is not useless. This may as well be a fact, not a matter of opinion.

 

[The Final Offer]

...Erm, erp eh derp...

Kat is NOT useless.

There are too many key points that make her useful. Dante even realises and acknowledges that they couldn't of done it without her help. Her knowledge, her magic, her resilience to torture and her will.

Kat is not useless. This may as well be a fact, not a matter of opinion.

Yeah but, Innsmouth just trolls DmC threads. I think he's just lonely AF.

 

[Chancey289]

Yeah and than we have attack on their headquarters, where she did nothing but whine and cry all the way long, and when Vergil said her "jump and do as I told", she did exactly it and cared about his computer till bitter end.. She literally helpless on her own. If she throw that bottle in Hunters face and Dante wasn't there (which she once again did because Vergil sent her), she'd be dead. If she entered Virility storage on her own, she couldn't do a thing. She's a tool, but without Dante or Verigl at her side, she can't do nothing.
When Vergil brushed her off in the end, all she can do is to stay there shocked with realization and let Dante handle him. Her voice barely mattered in the end. And yes, she was forced into the whole mess, basically because of the situation she was in ( if she didn't, her stepfather would have continued to rape and probably eventually kill her). So it's not like she had that much choice.
And as her whole signs ability, interestingly enough when she was captured, Vergil opened rift and left Limbo just fine without her, meaning it wasn't her personal ability, just spell he taught her.

Like I said, just because you hate DmC, it doesn't mean you have to attempt to knock it around on every aspect especially when you are wrong.

When the headquarters was invaded she did her best to keep them out but, she was going up against an anti terrorist SWAT team that were carrying assault rifles and other heavy weaponry. It'd be stupid to try and confront them head on unless you want a bullet in your head.

And there's a fine line between being forced and just wanting to be a part of the team and help. Vergil saved her yes but, there is nothing saying Vergil twisted her arm to get her to join the Order. She was someone Vergil saved proved to be a valuable ally as time went on. Of course Vergil still didn't make much of it because she was still a means to an end TO HIM and he's just a prick with supernatural pride like the original but, that doesn't mean she isn't a fighter and didn't believe in what they were fighting for. She states multiple times in the story about how she wants to help fight for humanity. She is there because SHE WANTS TO BE.

I highly doubt you ever played the game. Maybe the most you have done is watch select things or read what others have wrote about it because you honestly have only vague ideas of the game's plot, gameplay, etc. I am not making you play it or like it but, quit coming in here straw manning us with nonsense because you're not making any sense.

Everyone one of us here have proved you wrong again Innmouth yet you keep on expecting us to roll with all the crap you're saying. Look around and see that no one here agrees with you. Does that mean we're all just ganging up on poor Innsmouth or, maybe you're wrong about you're talking about?!

 

[Chancey289]

Simply put, you are a stubborn and extremely biased fanboy that hates DmC with so much of a passion you are willing to reach as far as you can in an attempt to come up with anything to go against it.

Hate it and call it the worst game ever. I. DON'T. CARE. Just quit coming in trying to be a part of a DmC discussion when you obviously have nothing to say but you hate it. You hate it so much, why do you bother worrying about it? Like, go do something else or something.

 

[The Final Offer]

Simply put, you are a stubborn and extremely biased fanboy that hates DmC with so much of a passion you are willing to reach as far as you can in an attempt to come up with anything to go against it.

Hate it and call it the worst game ever. I. DON'T. CARE. Just quit coming in trying to be a part of a DmC discussion when you obviously have nothing to say but you hate it. You hate it so much, why do you bother worrying about it? Like, go do something else or something.

"Does not compute! DERP DERP!" -Innsmouth

 

[Innsmouth]

Like I said, just because you hate DmC, it doesn't mean you have to attempt to knock it around on every aspect especially when you are wrong.

When the headquarters was invaded she did her best to keep them out but, she was going up against an anti terrorist SWAT team that were carrying assault rifles and other heavy weaponry. It'd be stupid to try and confront them head on unless you want a bullet in your head.

That's more than enough to prove that she needs a muscle to get her through the day. Let's see: Dante is muscle, it's pretty obvious. He pretty much executive. Vergil is a brain - once again it's pretty much obvious, he plans whole operations and directs everyone. Kat is supportive tool. On her own she can't do much, which is why, I can't consider her anything but dependent character, who require brawls behind her to survive.

I highly doubt you ever played the game. Maybe the most you have done is watch select things or read what others have wrote about it because you honestly have only vague ideas of the game's plot, gameplay, etc. I am not making you play it or like it but, quit coming in here straw manning us with nonsense because you're not making any sense.

Well once again I don't give a damn, if you believe it or not, because I once again know exactly what I talk about. If you don't like how somebody sees things, won't matter to the facts. And in your book argument "you haven't played game" applies to anyone who dislikes game.

Simply put, you are a stubborn and extremely biased fanboy that hates DmC with so much of a passion you are willing to reach as far as you can in an attempt to come up with anything to go against it.

Hate it and call it the worst game ever. I. DON'T. CARE. Just quit coming in trying to be a part of a DmC discussion when you obviously have nothing to say but you hate it. You hate it so much, why do you bother worrying about it? Like, go do something else or something.

So, if you don't care what I say about this game, why do you care enough to defend it to the death? It's really becomes laughable. You may consider it shining gem and epitome of all gaming experience put together, but I'm not going to take your opinion away. It's just pretty pointless. IT's your opinion, and as far as I concerned I don't care about it.
As for fanboy, well since you hate DMC4, guess it makes you fanboy too? And since I'm free to state my opinion on anything I want, I will do it, even if you don't like it

 

[Chancey289]

That's more than enough to prove that she needs a muscle to get her through the day. Let's see: Dante is muscle, it's pretty obvious. He pretty much executive. Vergil is a brain - once again it's pretty much obvious, he plans whole operations and directs everyone. Kat is supportive tool. On her own she can't do much, which is why, I can't consider her anything but dependent character, who require brawls behind her to survive.



Well once again I don't give a damn, if you believe it or not, because I once again know exactly what I talk about. If you don't like how somebody sees things, won't matter to the facts. And in your book argument "you haven't played game" applies to anyone who dislikes game.

So, if you don't care what I say about this game, why do you care enough to defend it to the death? It's really becomes laughable. You may consider it shining gem and epitome of all gaming experience put together, but I'm not going to take your opinion away. It's just pretty pointless. IT's your opinion, and as far as I concerned I don't care about it.
As for fanboy, well since you hate DMC4, guess it makes you fanboy too? And since I'm free to state my opinion on anything I want, I will do it, even if you don't like it

Except I don't think it's the magnum opus of gaming. I have very good reasons as to why I hate DMC 4 but that doesn't mean I like DmC the best. My favorite of them all is STILL THE FIRST GAME.

I was just simply proving why you were wrong about Kat using things from the game to back it up unlike you who only uses whatever will benefit your babble totally ignoring the context of said "evidence" and ignoring everything that just once again proves you wrong.

And me saying you haven't played it wasn't because you don't like it. It's because you come in these discussions and you can never even keep your story straight. There's a lot of things you simply miss about about the game and even in the Vergil thread people pointed out your inconsistencies. It doesn't add up.

It's like I'm talking to a kindergartner. Read what I said, work on your grammar too please, and remember CONTEXT. IS. IMPORTANT.

 

[Innsmouth]

...Erm, erp eh derp...

Kat is NOT useless.

There are too many key points that make her useful. Dante even realises and acknowledges that they couldn't of done it without her help. Her knowledge, her magic, her resilience to torture and her will.

Kat is not useless. This may as well be a fact, not a matter of opinion.

Well, I already said, she is like only motivation Dante has in game, so as motivation and support for him she fulfills her role. But as character she feels to underdeveloped to stand on her own.

 

[Chancey289]

Well, I already said, she is like only motivation Dante has in game, so as motivation and support for him she fulfills her role. But as character she feels to underdeveloped to stand on her own.

So, Dante's own motivation to simply be a hero and protect humanity is not there? DmC's Dante still shares the simple moral ideal that Dante has always had. That is to stand up and fight against oppression. It's why his sword is called Rebellion.

Dante may have started out not caring so much about things but, when his eyes were opened to what was his life and the demonic influence that affected it all, it made him find something worth fighting for. He was there believing and accepting the position to protect humanity because he felt like it was worth saving and protect.

More so than even my favorite version of Dante from the first game who's entire motivation came just from revenge.

 

[Innsmouth]

So, Dante's own motivation to simply be a hero and protect humanity is not there? DmC's Dante still shares the simple moral ideal that Dante has always had. That is to stand up and fight against oppression. It's why his sword is called Rebellion.

Dante may have started out not caring so much about things but, when his eyes were opened to what was his life and the demonic influence that affected it all, it made him find something worth fighting for. He was there believing and accepting the position to protect humanity because he felt like it was worth saving and protect.

She acts as guidance for him, because if not for his sympathy for her he probably wouldn't bothered with order or anything they do. Without his sympathy for her, he probably would have beaten up demons on streets, but I don't think he learned to care for humans otherwise. It's extremely clear, because he didn't showed regard to other humans in game, aside from her, until end, where he decided to protect them So as part of the plot she had her role, and I can't deny nor I want to do it. (though I don't think he felt quite like a hero, since he questions himself in the end).
Yet I still felt, that she was underdeveloped compared to Dante or Vergil, and could have become much stronger individual, if her role wasn't reduced into damsel in distress in second half of the game. It's like we getting to know her backstory, and than before her relations with Dante gets to flesh out, whole attack on HQ happens, and we don't hear from her till the end, which robs her of her importance as an individual.

 

[The Final Offer]

She acts as guidance for him, because if not for his sympathy for her he probably wouldn't bothered with order or anything they do. Without his sympathy for her, he probably would have beaten up demons on streets, but I don't think he learned to care for humans otherwise. It's extremely clear, because he didn't showed regard to other humans in game, aside from her, until end, where he decided to protect them So as part of the plot she had her role, and I can't deny nor I want to do it. (though I don't think he felt quite like a hero, since he questions himself in the end).
Yet I still felt, that she was underdeveloped compared to Dante or Vergil, and could have become much stronger individual, if her role wasn't reduced into damsel in distress in second half of the game. It's like we getting to know her backstory, and than before her relations with Dante gets to flesh out, whole attack on HQ happens, and we don't hear from her till the end, which robs her of her importance as an individual.

Man, anyone ever tell you...you're like a scarecrow to sense?