Jackpot Overused?

[berto]

Cause Nero, unlike DmC Dante, earned it through context.

So, you are saying that an adult man, who raises children and lives with his girlfriend, gets to dramatically and randomly put his middle finger up into the air and scream 'F*** You' just as dramatically to his estranged father well after they've already had a conversation establishing all of their grievances and positions gets not just a pass but applause because he is justified? Randomly and dramatically screams ''f*** you.' Yeah, the context is that he does it randomly in the middle of a fight before pulling his DT, no pun intended.

After all the cursing and childish retorts I'm not finding the whole concept justifiable. The 'both, you f*** ass***,' the 'f*** y**' the screaming, the pi**y and moany retorts throughout. It all degrades into petulance rather justifiable anger. I have nothing against swearing, I think Tarantino has some of the most brilliant writing in modern fiction and he swears like he was getting paid a bonus for every word that lands him closer to an N17 rating. Same for Guy Richie, Mel Brooks and so on, but this doesn't compare. This dialogue isn't cleaver or even mature. It's silly, juvenile and even cringy, and not in a charming way.

 

[Foxtrot94]

an adult man, who raises children and lives with his girlfriend

That... really has no bearing. My dad is an adult man who raises a child and lives with his wife. Responsible and a great worker, and he still randomly curses like a sailor every 5 words or so. Of all the arguments you could have opened up with to base your point upon, you chose the one that literally doesn't mean anything. The kind of person profile you tried to give there isn't necessarily defined by swearing, or lack thereof rather. Not in real life, nor in fiction.

Also a generalization for effect has no place here. We're talking about Nero. His potty mouth was established as a character trait long ago so it's kind of expected for him to curse. So yeah, I don't mind him doing it as long as the situation at least gives him some degree of room for him to as it was the case in the previous game. Had he pulled that kind of stuff against random shmucks like Goliath then yeah, it would have turned into DmC cringe levels. As it stands, I don't applaude it, as you put it, but I'm not really bothered by it either.

It is meant to be cheesy and silly, yet at the same it's done within a context that makes at least some sort of sense for him, as opposed to a literal swearing contest with some near-irrelevant throwaway foe at the end of a side quest of sorts, blatantly for the sake of it with zero additional subtext whatsoever to speak of. That's a difference that matters to me. If it doesn't to you, or you don't see one in the first place, then I've nothing else to say aside from starting repeating myself, and more power to you. Kinda gone off topic anyway. :hungover:

 

[berto]

That... really has no bearing.

He is an adult with responsibilities and life experience. The baring is that juvenile behaviour from a grown man is unbecoming and regressive. Rather than a man with age and responsibilities he is coming off as some angry adolescent who is yelling at his dad over some other wah wah, 'I wish you weren't my dad' or 'I hate you' or 'you f****** ass****.'

My dad is an adult man who raises a child and lives with his wife. Responsible and a great worker, and he still randomly curses like a sailor every 5 words or so.

That's quite different, isn't it. If he'd get into an accident or someone tried to punch him he'd surely have a strong reaction but he sure as hell wouldn't stand back, raise his middle finger up in the air and scream 'F*** ***' to the other person, right?

The kind of person profile you tried to give there isn't necessarily defined by swearing, or lack thereof rather.

It's not the swearing, it's the general behaviour and use of said swearing. I thought I made that clear when I pointed out Tarantino and Ritchie. This was the exact argument people had when they were defending DmC's and I have the same position here as I did there. It's not the f-bombs or the general swearing, it's the childish way it's done. This isn't some dude who says f*** with every single sentence because it's a mannerism, this is a man being extra loud with every profanity and while in DmC it's like 10 year old who just discovered the word here it's a 13 year old who just found out his dad is having an affair and is screaming profanities at the top of their lungs because he can't use his words.

I don't applaude it, as you put it, but I'm not really bothered by it either.

I don't remember saying you, specifically. I said it is applauded not you applaud it. If I did, thought, that was not my intention.

It is meant to be cheesy and silly

Those are two very different and negating tones, cheesy/silly and self righteously anger. I don't agree, that this was an intentional effect, I think they took it seriously but it came off cheesy and tremendously immature. I understand Nero's motivation for being there, to keep his family alive, but then he actually starts talking to Virgil and after one or two actual lines of dialogue he deteriorates to name calling and angry swearing.

If it doesn't to you, or you don't see one in the first place, then I've nothing else to say aside from starting repeating myself, and more power to you.

It's not so much a matter of there being a difference or that it matters. It's the fact that both are cringy but DMC gets a pass and DmC has it as a form of evidence for its lack of writing quality. There being a set up, though I disagree, doesn't change the fact that they are still screaming 'f*** ***' and that it not only is not working but strikes me as a double standard.

Kinda gone off topic anyway. :hungover:

I could always change it to 'Jackpot and F*** *** Overused?'

 

[Foxtrot94]

It's not so much a matter of there being a difference or that it matters.

Well, to me it is, and also the reason why for a lot of people the F bomb instances came off purely as obnoxious in DmC and not quite the same way in 5. The latter gets a pass for many cause at least there's some room for a pass, however irrelevant you may deem it, whereas in the former case, there's not even that to latch onto. I know you disagree on that as well, I did read your reply above and you do you, just saying that's my point of view on the matter. Can't just always see things in a vacuum, as I see it.
Nothing else for me to do aside from agreeing to disagree, since apparently our views differ at a fundamental level - what you say is not the point to me is exactly the crux of the discussion, so there's no common ground here from the get go. Which is fine, "il mondo è bello perché è vario", as we say over here.

I could always change it to 'Jackpot and F*** *** Overused?'

Gotta check with the thread creator I guess.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

He is an adult with responsibilities and life experience. The baring is that juvenile behaviour from a grown man is unbecoming and regressive. Rather

He's 25. I know people older who act way worse . Seriously a guy in his mid-20s flipping the bird and shouting "F#$k You" in a moment of frustration doesn't seem that odd to me

 

[BrawlMan]

@berto I think you're taking "the F you" moment too seriously. People curse under frustration. My older brother does it, and he's 35. Hell, he curses a lot, and gets that from our mom. If that bothers you, might as well complain about every HBO MA Rated TV series, every video game (Platinum had plenty of cursing done right), or R-Rated movie that featured many similar scenarios of frustrations. If you don't like it, fine by me. But I consider it one of the funniest/awesome moments in action games.

 

[berto]

@AgentRedgrave
@BrawlMan
What is it that I'm not explaining properly? Why is everyone so fixated with cursing when I've repeatedly said that it's not the foul language itself I have a problem with but rather how it comes of? Every way I've explained it all I get in response is a reminder that people swear in movies, games music and real life. I know. Not my point, never was nor did I use that as the argument. My entire point was that in both games these were awful juvenile and even if the context and set up for both were very different I find both to be on a similar level of quality of writing.

I think you're taking "the F you" moment too seriously.

I'm not fixated with the cursing or even the scene itself. I'm fixated on the inability to get my point across. I don't care about pursuing the issue because I have a huge beef with the scene I can't come to terms with, I'm pursuing the issue because I am being misunderstood so drastically. It's almost the same conversation I had when this happened when DmC was out.

He's 25. I know people older who act way worse . Seriously a guy in his mid-20s flipping the bird and shouting "F#$k You" in a moment of frustration doesn't seem that odd to me

Ok, not to my point but, well, for this I do have a retort that might help me drive my point across, one hopes.

I once had a neighbor who left his house all enraged and screamed 'F*** you, bro!' to his mother as he was leaving loud enough for the whole neighborhood to hear him. People curse everyday but they don't come off as these giant tools like this guy over here we came to affectionately came to call 'f*** ***, bro.' To a similar effect I've come to associate Nero with a similar kind of behaviour do to his childish tantrums.

Can't just always see things in a vacuum, as I see it.

Not sure I understand the context.

 

[V's patron]

I thought Jackpot was used fine.

Don't get me wrong, DMCV had a lot of cringe moments but "Jackpot" wasn't one of them.

So with Nero's "F you" I agree with @Foxtrot94 . It was better executed than DmC's Dante v Succubus moment.

I don't disagree with @berto but i never thought Nero was that mature to begin. He was always petulant and a bit of a tool. Both 4 and 5 starts with him being a massive tool but he softens around the halfway point.

I dont think he got that from DmC Dante, i think DmC Dante got that from him.

So all in all *F you* shouldn't be his catchphrase, if he is to have one.