I've tried to play DMC 4 after DmC again...

[MasterBlasterAA]

Just saying, This guy isn't as good as he comes out to be. He plays THE SIMPLE BASICS OF THE COMBAT SYSTEM.

Amazing isn't it?! That's the basic level you should play! Compare that to DmC and you'll see how pathetic it is! the comparison is VERY necessary. Simply because the name of the game is Devil May Cry.



on a sidenote, Keirnoth is a good friend of mine. He taught me alot of the basics and I have a ton of respect for him.

wait so are you saying that this kind of gameplay isnt that difficult to pull off? saying DmC is pathetic is a little harsh though... but you should totally pass what you learned from Keirnoth to me . I want to be able to play like that...

 

[Terrutas]

wait so are you saying that this kind of gameplay isnt that difficult to pull off? saying DmC is pathetic is a little harsh though... but you should totally pass what you learned from Keirnoth to me . I want to be able to play like that...

That level of play is VERY basic. this is pretty much the fundamentals for Dante in DMC4.

It's all practice,my friend. Have you heard of the Learning Curve this game has?

And if you attend my streams,I'm sure you'll learn a lot. just as I did.

 

[AngelMode]

Which is a better game is entirely up to the gamer. There are many things DmC does better than DMC4, and there are many things DMC4 does better than DmC. Same thing can be said when comparing 4 to 3.

If you are more into gameplay, then yeah, obviously you are going to be a little disappointed. Nevertheless, I disagree with whomever said DmC gameplay is basic.

For example:

And as far as I can see, there are so many more (harder) possibilities for combos this guy could have done. DMC level of gameplay is more about speed and reaction time... but I can go as far as to say that because of this, things like JC'ing correctly in DmC is actually harder than in 3/4 (I have tested it myself)... for good or bad reasons... like the hitbox being too huge and messing up with your brain sometimes so you JC more than you need to, etc.

Though I agree DMC4 Dante is much more in-depth with essentially much harder stunts to pull, in my opinion DmC is not as far behind as to be considered "basic"... but then again, wtf does that mean?

 

[MichiGen]

That level of play is VERY basic. this is pretty much the fundamentals for Dante in DMC4.

It's all practice,my friend. Have you heard of the Learning Curve this game has?

And if you attend my streams,I'm sure you'll learn a lot. just as I did.

But what's the point to learn all that when all the room to use it with Dante is just backtracking through approximately 8 missions? I know you can play them on different difficulties, but it just seems like a VERY wasted potential for such a combat system. Very little room for using it. At least, there is Bloody Palace.

DmC is a reboot not a continuation, so I think people should not expect the combat system to be at least complex as DMC 4 Dante combat. It's basically a first game in the new series, try to compare skillset of Dante from DMC 1 with his skillset from DMC 4... Ninja Theory has to keep some reserves for a sequel, so the Dante could develop and become more powerfull. It wouldn't make any sense to make his combat system overly complicated right from the start.
At the end of the game he changed, it looks like his hair will stay white, and as Phineas said he's only on his way to unlock his full potential.

 

[AngelMode]

But what's the point to learn all that when all the room to use it with Dante is just backtracking through approximately 8 missions? I know you can play them on different difficulties, but it just seems like a VERY wasted potential for such a combat system. Very little room for using it. At least, there is Bloody Palace.

DmC is a reboot not a continuation, so I think people should not expect the combat system to be at least complex as DMC 4 Dante combat. It's basically a first game in the new series, try to compare skillset of Dante from DMC 1 with his skillset from DMC 4... Ninja Theory has to keep some reserves for a sequel, so the Dante could develop and become more powerfull. It wouldn't make any sense to make his combat system overly complicated right from the start.
At the end of the game he changed, it looks like his hair will stay white, and as Phineas said he's only on his way to unlock his full potential.

Your logic made no sense until you said that NT shouldn't make an overly complicated combat system with their first game and let people get a hold of it until they release a much more in-depth one. So yeah... that makes sense... or, at the very least, I hope they can make a better one if NT ever gets around to making a DmC2 or whatever. And I think they will because they seem to be heading into the right direction after seeing some of Vergil's faster gameplay mechanics.

 

[Terrutas]

But what's the point to learn all that when all the room to use it with Dante is just backtracking through approximately 8 missions? I know you can play them on different difficulties, but it just seems like a VERY wasted potential for such a combat system. Very little room for using it. At least, there is Bloody Palace.

DmC is a reboot not a continuation, so I think people should not expect the combat system to be at least complex as DMC 4 Dante combat. It's basically a first game in the new series, try to compare skillset of Dante from DMC 1 with his skillset from DMC 4... Ninja Theory has to keep some reserves for a sequel, so the Dante could develop and become more powerfull. It wouldn't make any sense to make his combat system overly complicated right from the start.
At the end of the game he changed, it looks like his hair will stay white, and as Phineas said he's only on his way to unlock his full potential.

I wasn't asking for it to be complex. I was asking for it to have a familiar base for us old-school fans to relate to. Although I do feel that making a Devil May Cry title does require a deep combat system but that's just me.

 

[AngelMode]

I wasn't asking for it to be complex. I was asking for it to have a familiar base for us old-school fans to relate to. Although I do feel that making a Devil May Cry title does require a deep combat system but that's just me.

Ever played DMC2?

DMC1 actually did have a bit of depth to it, but not because of what Dante could do but how enemies behaved.

 

[MasterBlasterAA]

Which is a better game is entirely up to the gamer. There are many things DmC does better than DMC4, and there are many things DMC4 does better than DmC. Same thing can be said when comparing 4 to 3.

If you are more into gameplay, then yeah, obviously you are going to be a little disappointed. Nevertheless, I disagree with whomever said DmC gameplay is basic.

For example:

And as far as I can see, there are so many more (harder) possibilities for combos this guy could have done. DMC level of gameplay is more about speed and reaction time... but I can go as far as to say that because of this, things like JC'ing correctly in DmC is actually harder than in 3/4 (I have tested it myself)... for good or bad reasons... like the hitbox being too huge and messing up with your brain sometimes so you JC more than you need to, etc.

Though I agree DMC4 Dante is much more in-depth with essentially much harder stunts to pull, in my opinion DmC is not as far behind as to be considered "basic"... but then again, wtf does that mean?

ooh ok that was sexy. so much canceling going on. This is the kind of stuff i absolutely love about Devil May Cry (both DMC and DmC), everyone has a unique playstyle

 

[Ether0]

Which is a better game is entirely up to the gamer. There are many things DmC does better than DMC4, and there are many things DMC4 does better than DmC. Same thing can be said when comparing 4 to 3.

If you are more into gameplay, then yeah, obviously you are going to be a little disappointed. Nevertheless, I disagree with whomever said DmC gameplay is basic.

For example:

And as far as I can see, there are so many more (harder) possibilities for combos this guy could have done. DMC level of gameplay is more about speed and reaction time... but I can go as far as to say that because of this, things like JC'ing correctly in DmC is actually harder than in 3/4 (I have tested it myself)... for good or bad reasons... like the hitbox being too huge and messing up with your brain sometimes so you JC more than you need to, etc.

Though I agree DMC4 Dante is much more in-depth with essentially much harder stunts to pull, in my opinion DmC is not as far behind as to be considered "basic"... but then again, wtf does that mean?

It's all super subjective, I agree with you they both do things that the other does not and that's fine, it would suck if it was just a complete rehash of DMC4 mechanics. I was actually somewhat dissapointed that DMC4 Dante was so similar to DMC3 Dante. Yeah he was capable of a lot more in some regards but I wanted a bigger leap than what i got, still fum though.

The thing that people have to remember about this game is that the fundamentals of combat go in a different direction than DMC3 and 4. In those games you go into an arena, target a single enemy do your cool combos until they die and move on to the next enemy, in this game it's more about crowd control and taking advantage of the enemy weakness. You can look at how master lever combo vids on this game have a lot of crowd combos as opposed to one on one stuff and that changes things a lot and people should stop going into this system expecting it to be entirely like the old one because at it's core, it has a somewhat different goal.

 

[ChaserTech]

And as far as I can see, there are so many more (harder) possibilities for combos this guy could have done. DMC level of gameplay is more about speed and reaction time... but I can go as far as to say that because of this, things like JC'ing correctly in DmC is actually harder than in 3/4 (I have tested it myself)... for good or bad reasons... like the hitbox being too huge and messing up with your brain sometimes so you JC more than you need to, etc.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

In general, Jump Cancelling is easier to jump cancel correctly and consistently. Having a larger hitbox means that you don't have to be as accurate when you Jump Cancel against the enemies in DmC. As well as this, Dante stays in the air longer as well as the enemies while he's attacking them in midair.

In DMC4, enemies had a lot of differences in terms of Jump Cancelling. You had to account the following when JCing:

1) Enemy hitstun
2) Enemy hurtbox
3) Enemy hurtbox attack attributes.

I don't recall enemies having different JC properties other than fighting enemies which had weak points since you needed to attack the enemy on that weak point.

And these vary when you fought different enemies. I'll list a few examples.

• Scarecrows (Leg/Arm): Can be JC'd mainly near the upper part of their front body. Slowly falls when JC'd.
• Megascarcows: Same rules apply from Scarecrows, except you can only JC them on their head or on their backs.
• Frosts: Stayed in the air when JC'd against due to longer hitstun.
• Angelos (Bianco/Alto): Same properties as Frost except certain moves won't launch the enemy. [Ectacsy from Lucifer or Charged Shots from Blue Rose].

These are just a few things why I think JCing is a lot harder in DMC4 than DmC. It was quite obvious that JCing drastically made easier to pull off seeing how most moves are slow enough for you to cancel attacks, as well as the hitbox for jumping off an enemy was increased by A LOT.

 

[aoshi]

THEY ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. When I play DMC4 or earlier titles now, my mind automatically switches to the old button configuration. When I play DmC I switch to the new one. Simple as that. Its like playing Halo and then playing DmC or something, and using the respective button schemes when switching games.

Uh...No. We are comparing two games of the same series and not games of different series. Control layout of DMC 3 and DMC 4 for dante are the same except with DMC 4 Style switching is added........well for obvious reasons since it was the next game in series and was very much expected. Control layout of DmC is different from 3 and 4 with angel and demon abilities. The point i am making here is though DmC is another devil may cry game, we can't treat it as an entirely different game. Well, then it should have been a new IP. The point of following a series is to have common gameplay elements and most importantly controls with may be added or modified controls(well we can't have same gameplay in every new game of the series but not an entirely different one).

DmC is still a devil may cry game but with simplified controls and gameplay which is wat the subject of this thread is.

I feel that most people on this forum are not good enough at either game to judge them properly.

I jus explained i could play at a 90 % capacity with nero and 70 % capacity of dante. Plus i have been following the games since 2006. How could you possibly say that rest of forum suck at DMC???? That's quite chauvinistic.

If you are this guy, or play DMC4 like this guy, you have a right to hate DmC (and he vehemently hates DmC, justifiably so). He clearly put a ton of time into learning the nuances of DMC4's combat system, and switching to a new one after being that good would be pretty jarring.

Kiernoth plays DMC 4 at a very basic level. I have seen his nero walkthrough of Bloody palace and he can't even air buster blitz. Wrong comparison of skilled DMC 4 plays. I am not down-sizing kiernoth but his gameplay is at a very basic level. You obviously don't know even most basic known skillful DMC players like brea and xelnagakail.

Otherwise, you have no right to criticize the new system, because you are simply not good enough.

May be capcom should take leaderboards and distribute copies of new games ONLY to top 10.Oh...........wait, they don't. Pleeeeeeeeeasssssssseeee, We live in democracy where anyone's opinions run governments. Criticism on games does not require any qualification.

 

[Marionette Cherry]

I saw a truestyle video of Vergil's Downfall, it turned me off getting it because it just looked the same as people playing normally. Even Brea can't make DmC look any more Crazy.

 

[Meier]

Vergil's gameplay is fairly complicated and involving though. You have to experience it first hand to really appreciate the combo videos that will be available. Its the same with DMC4. An outside can look at those videos and not understand what effort is being put into the fight there, but the diehards know that you need to get your hands on it to really see and appreciate the depth that's provided. The new game may look flashier for newbie gamestyles, but that doesn't mean that finesse and swag can't be obtained at a higher level.

 

[Terrutas]

Vergil's gameplay is fairly complicated and involving though. You have to experience it first hand to really appreciate the combo videos that will be available. Its the same with DMC4. An outside can look at those videos and not understand what effort is being put into the fight there, but the diehards know that you need to get your hands on it to really see and appreciate the depth that's provided. The new game may look flashier for newbie gamestyles, but that doesn't mean that finesse and swag can't be obtained at a higher level.

The downside to it though, Is that just those 6 missions outshine the entire main game.

 

[Marionette Cherry]

Maybe I will see it in the a new light when I get it

 

[MasterBlasterAA]

Uh...No. We are comparing two games of the same series and not games of different series. Control layout of DMC 3 and DMC 4 for dante are the same except with DMC 4 Style switching is added........well for obvious reasons since it was the next game in series and was very much expected. Control layout of DmC is different from 3 and 4 with angel and demon abilities. The point i am making here is though DmC is another devil may cry game, we can't treat it as an entirely different game. Well, then it should have been a new IP. The point of following a series is to have common gameplay elements and most importantly controls with may be added or modified controls(well we can't have same gameplay in every new game of the series but not an entirely different one).

DmC is still a devil may cry game but with simplified controls and gameplay which is wat the subject of this thread is.



I jus explained i could play at a 90 % capacity with nero and 70 % capacity of dante. Plus i have been following the games since 2006. How could you possibly say that rest of forum suck at DMC???? That's quite chauvinistic.



Kiernoth plays DMC 4 at a very basic level. I have seen his nero walkthrough of Bloody palace and he can't even air buster blitz. Wrong comparison of skilled DMC 4 plays. I am not down-sizing kiernoth but his gameplay is at a very basic level. You obviously don't know even most basic known skillful DMC players like brea and xelnagakail.



May be capcom should take leaderboards and distribute copies of new games ONLY to top 10.Oh...........wait, they don't. Pleeeeeeeeeasssssssseeee, We live in democracy where anyone's opinions run governments. Criticism on games does not require any qualification.

Dear lord... i don't understand why what i said is apparently so hard to understand. This game is a REBOOT. That means starting an ENTIRELY NEW GAME with a preexisting IP. Sure the name is Devil May Cry, and therefore the games are very similar (not talking about story because thats a given), but they are different games. The old Devil May Cry is dead. And although i mourn the loss of one series, i welcome the rise of a new one. As a true Devil May Cry fan (DMC/DmC) I would rather see a reboot of the game, then have the IP die altogether (which would have happened). And since when is simple bad? I applaud NT for making everything in the game more accessible. Sure the combat is not as deep but AS I WAS SAYING, most of us scratched the surface of combat for DMC4.

Chauvinistic? First of all make sure you read my post properly before making such a heinous assumption. I stated my qualifications and then explicitly said "I DONT THINK IM EVEN QUALIFIED TO PROPERLY ASSESS THESE GAMES". Chauvinistic means I think I am better than people on this forum, which I just contradicted with that statement. I know reading and comprehending is difficult but I believe in you.

OK I GET IT. Apparently Kiernoth combat skills are simple. I APOLOGIZE. I don't look up how other people play because I have my own style that I enjoy. If my DMC4 skills are in question I would be happy to compete with you and see who is better.

Ok now you are just being an @$$. Distribute the game to the top 10? I clearly said that people who say the new system is clunky should prove that they have played both, are relatively good at both (to determine whether or not they have used all the various nuances of each combat style), and then properly assess them in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner. Its called making an informed critique buddy. Just because I know you have a difficult time understanding words ill put it simply: if you want to properly critique two books, make sure you have fully read both of them.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying you should not critique DmC's combat if you aren't good enough to use DMC4's or DmC's combat systems to their full extent.

 

[AngelMode]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

In general, Jump Cancelling is easier to jump cancel correctly and consistently. Having a larger hitbox means that you don't have to be as accurate when you Jump Cancel against the enemies in DmC. As well as this, Dante stays in the air longer as well as the enemies while he's attacking them in midair.

In DMC4, enemies had a lot of differences in terms of Jump Cancelling. You had to account the following when JCing:

1) Enemy hitstun
2) Enemy hurtbox
3) Enemy hurtbox attack attributes.

I don't recall enemies having different JC properties other than fighting enemies which had weak points since you needed to attack the enemy on that weak point.

And these vary when you fought different enemies. I'll list a few examples.

• Scarecrows (Leg/Arm): Can be JC'd mainly near the upper part of their front body. Slowly falls when JC'd.
• Megascarcows: Same rules apply from Scarecrows, except you can only JC them on their head or on their backs.
• Frosts: Stayed in the air when JC'd against due to longer hitstun.
• Angelos (Bianco/Alto): Same properties as Frost except certain moves won't launch the enemy. [Ectacsy from Lucifer or Charged Shots from Blue Rose].

These are just a few things why I think JCing is a lot harder in DMC4 than DmC. It was quite obvious that JCing drastically made easier to pull off seeing how most moves are slow enough for you to cancel attacks, as well as the hitbox for jumping off an enemy was increased by A LOT.

Ah, could have been because I'm used to DMC4's JCing and positioning at this point, as well as the speed, that DmC just seems a lot more annoying for me. But yeah, you're right.

 

[Dusk Stalker]

I kind of thought about this... and having to hold the lock-on feels really out of place. I really don't know why, because in both DmC and other DMC's you have buttons to hold.
I think it's more about the dodge. Dodges in previous DMC's are pretty lame imo... jumping backwards is pretty useless, and rolling is limited. Using two buttons to dodge just feels out of place for DMC3 and DMC4.
I really like simplicity... and DmC isn't exactly simple, there's a lot to think about... like the Angel/Demon weapons, which weapon is currently equipped, and of course where enemies are. When I try to do combo's on the fly, it gets pretty challenging to think of everything.
As far as complexity goes, I think DMC4 is the only example for this. Dante was just way too complicated... as far as DMC1,2, and 3 went... I don't think complexity was ever a problem. You only had two swords at max to keep track of (3 if you count Vergil).
Dodging is what feels outdated due to the lock-on though. I feel that DmC got it right... make dodging super forgiving, but place players in trickier situations.

Except the reason for a second dodge button doesn't make sense(It could have been for Demon stance only where its a block)...the only question is if Demon stance makes you stand your ground why not make it a block instead of just getting out of the way?(Which has been said a million times)
And as for the DmC got it right, I don't see it. Angel dodge is pretty much a dash to the side, basically a Trickster stylesque stance without Air trick
Human stance: Regular dodges(Like in the preivous DMC's)

 

[ryuzaki91]

I feel like people saying that DMC4 combat is slower (or previous DMC combats are slower and clumsy) compared to the new DmC's prefer easier things to play. If you are new to the series and your starting point is new DmC then of course, old DMCs are much more harder for you people to play.
For me I begin with DMC4 and it takes more than a month for me to be able to switch styles, use the right moves and more importantly timing for the moves to keep Dante in the air (especially during Berial boss fight). The use of devil trigger gives me extra moves to keep me flying around. This whole thing is sooooooooo hard to master together.
DmC is like another game for me. The combat is definitely different.....well it's much easier for me to simply keep Dante in the air. And Dante's devil trigger is like.....hmmm...cheating. He doesn't get stronger as a powerful devil to crush everything on his way like before, but he's more likely to use a magic trick to keep enemy....stunned in the air . Oh well I shouldn't be talking about this because both games are different. I forgot people are talking about the combat here.
As much as I've just mentioned, DMC4 is much harder to play compared to DmC.
Don't hate me on this but my conclusion is that DmC combat is more for casual players, while the pros are still around with DMC3 & 4.

 

[Railazel]

I went from DMC 3 to DMC 1. DMC 1 felt slow and clunky. Still the greatest DMC.