IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
My reaction to this thread:
I don't know why people are acting like the change is "too extreme"
- Thread starter GF9000000Returns
- Start date
Yea I kinda agree with this.
Pretty sure that's a staple in most games like this. I know I've taken advantage of this in DMC4 a few times. Can't stand offscreen attack bullshit. Only game that got that right was Zone of Enders where your radar picked up most every incoming attack.
Well I can see where they're coming from, in that they want all players to play with at least some level of ability instead of mostly the hardcore gamers which games like Bayonetta and DMC3/4 since that is such a small niche group of people.
That said, there is something of a balance to be met between casual and hardcore, and NT might've overshot it into the casual area a tad.
My reaction to this thread:
Haha! like he's actually reading it.
D H
Well-known Member
Umm... DmC has less than half the moveset that Devil May Cry 4 had and has 1/3 the moveset that Devil May Cry 3 SE had. So I have no idea where your coming from. Also... You still have to use the D-pad to cycle weapons on top of holding down a button. It is no better than Devil May Cry 4's switching of movesets with the D-pad and cycling weapons with the triggers. And the only reason Devil May Cry 3's style system was limited was due to RAM limitations.
You say that a bunch of other stuff is subjective and then make it seem like fact that "Devil May Cry 4 is the worst in the series". Seems legit. Also, Capcom isn't "selling out" when they decide "Well, DmC has the worst sales in the franchise... maybe not so many people wanted it". It's called not throwing money is a hole.
scionicspectre
Well-known Member
Ironically, that's how it was for me until DmC came out.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
No it doesn't and you're wrong. I actually had someone help me add up the the moves and when you count how pretty much the demon and angel pull is an evolution from what Nero brought to the combat system Dante has a total of 56 moves. The same number Dante held in 4. I'm not even counting Vergil's Downfall which from trailers actually looks like he plays drastically different from Dante from trailers. In DmC though I can find myself having the ability to play in a less methodical manner because I personally like to make up sh!t in unorthodox ways. I can do stuff in DmC I've never been able to do in the series before. Play the game and see for yourself instead of throwing out rash assumptions.
The reason why I say 4 is the worst in the series revolves also around what the game represents. It was the prime example of a series pushed through the ringer because they wanted shake it down for sequels. A very lazy game that is literally half a game with MANY obnoxious design choices. The addition of QTEs aka the "cop out action game tactic and very freaking annoying video game feature" didn't help it. Repeating the previous levels in reverse order as Dante was a really stupid idea and considering how short Devil May Cry games tend to be, why the f*ck do something like that? Sure the combat system was solid but also not the best the series has seen when you have the style system more forced than ever with a clumsy way of switching them. Don't even get me started on the weak plot and annoying characters that makes you hate every single one. I don't even know where the sudden change of heart comes from for DMC 4. Everyone called it the worst since 2. If Capcom really cared about Devil May Cry then you do not push out such a lazy lackluster piece of crap after making something like DMC 3 which fixed all the things that went wrong after 2. That game doesn't deserve any excuse and sure as hell doesn't deserve praise. Capcom were at a creative dead end and obviously didn't give a sh!t at all about one of my favorite gaming series.
I would rather somebody else pick up every single one of Capcom's franchises. I'm a massive MegaMan fan and I also really enjoy the Resident Evil series so you see how Capcom sure as hell isn't in any good graces with me.
scionicspectre
Well-known Member
It doesn't matter how many moves you have if you can't use the all at the same time, right? :O I think it's better to have the right moves than more moves, anyway.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I prefer quality as well and variety is appreciated when it's incorporated correctly. DMC 4 had many moves you can really substitute for others and be just as effective. DmC's hybrid it has really has something that opens up ways to play in a more unorthodox manner which is more fun because I'm the type of player that likes making up my own techniques that not many people even think of doing. It's a personal game I give myself. It could use a little bit of polish but overall DmC is sitting on something really good when it comes to controls and playstyle. Something that should be worked on and continued.
TerrorA
Don't mess with a Mage, bitch.
True story. I got finished playing a few levels of DmC, then went to playing DMC3. I had Rebellion and Beowulf equipped, and switched from Rebellion to Beowulf right after a swing.
I forgot you had to start the combo all over after switching. I did this 3 times before I remembered!
I forgot you had to start the combo all over after switching. I did this 3 times before I remembered!
Fran0823
DmC and DMC why can't we have both?
That's not a jab, it´s the absolute truth, even if it hurts.He wasn't saying "Dante is not cool" he´s just saying the perception of "cool" has changed. Dante's look is extremely cliché these days because EVERYONE and their mother imitated it and NO ONE in japan or in the world would go out dressing like that guy (Unless is cosplay). Dante is cool TO US, but for anyone looking at the boxart without knowing anything about DMC he may look kinda gay.
I know it's easy to hate, but try to think outside the DMC box
DMCGamer1989
Well-known Member
So the tastes of one demographic is an absolute truth now? DMC was about fantasy, not realism, it was cool because we'd never ever see anything like it in real life, it was a near perfect escape.
Judgement
The skeptical, open-minded, conservative, pacifist
I would have to agree with most of that. Anyone seeing any pictures or even footage of Dante would most likely think anything but what we do when we see it. Though people caring what he looks like doesn't really change how I feel about how he should be shown in game but hell he still has his coat and gloves. Just the way he looks in DmC probably still makes the average person scratch their head, just maybe 15% less than the older looks.
I will always think that way of dressing is cool and did since I first saw it. I've cosplayed as him a few times too. He is actually what got me to grow my hair longer and start wearing longer coats, and layered clothes such as vests under unzipped sweatshirts or solid/dark colored flannel shirts. I don't know if I explained that right but it works! Now the look does actually compliment me and it's always cold up here so it all works out nicely but probably not for most haha.
I have to also agree with this. The games were meant to be somewhat unrealistic since they were a form of escape. The funny part is they kept Vergil looking pretty dam nifty compared to Dante but no one seems to care about that.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I've seen cooler looking fantasy characters than him. Speak for yourself. I don't hate Dante but there are only 2 looks I actually like from the character. The very first one and DmC. 3 was ok but I didn't like his boy band like hair. I actually liked the whole spike from the back. DMC 1 Dante looked alright. DmC Dante doesn't look bad either. I personally like his coat the best in that game. Dante in 2 and 4 were absolutely awful. Who the hell think that looks cool?
"DMC was about fantasy." More like ripping off fantasy.
Devil May Cry have been more about Demonology than Fantasy, but then again, the line between the two is quite thin. I just see Fantasy to be about dragons, elves, monsters, orcs and the like. Demonology is specifically about demons mixed with reality.
You can call it Dark Fantasy, then it is about demons, vampires, werewolves and such.
You can call it Dark Fantasy, then it is about demons, vampires, werewolves and such.
For me, for example, main problem with DmC changes is the fact that they are poorly made
I mean ok, thats true that society is evolve, and culture and art are evolved. For example original Star Trek is great series, but right now is a bit too naive if you'll judge it by today standarts. Everithing is change, even the literature. In 17 centuary no one could even imagine that there will be things like A Song of Ice and Fire becose no one even thing about how Points of View can be used to tell a story. So if changes in DmC was good - it would be ok. But it's not good. Yes, old series wasn't writing masterpiece, whole world rotated around one "super"family. But new story is also hollow and cliche. It doesn't go deeper primitive "Corporation is Evilz!". Why they are evil? "It's a demonz!" They do not try to look deeper in this problem and it's bad. In fact DMC3 touch theme of family much deeper and hold it mach better then new DmC touch social problems. At least in DMC3 Vergil wanted power not just in sake of power. He lost his mother and he needed power so he would be able to defend everyone that he care about. Yes, that cliche and all, but it's still deeper then new one
And new writing. It's just horrible. Not becose characters swearing. Swearing can be used for great dialogs. GTA series for example has pretty good writing with mach more swearing. But right here in this game which supposed to be deep in social problems dante lines feel like "I do not care about this". And this "do not care" from Dante kill all deepness of the plot. We just get "good hero vs evil company" from comics. I often here that someone try to defend this game that it is not about corporation, it's about who Dante is and where his place in the world. But it still not make a sence. If that is about Dante, about his place in the world, than it fail again, couse most of situations and dialogs has nothing to do with this. Hell, one time when this theme appear is in the end with "Who am I" question. So deep and psycological!
Finally the characters. DMC characters was always kinda plane. New characters just bad. We have Dante who simply can't diside who is he. Somewhat of old sharptongue carefree Dante? Or serious character with identity complex? This just don't mix too well. It feel like we have two characters instead of one and they are comnstantly change place. And new Vergil? I understand that NT wanted to make him a charismatic manipulative bastard. Who use other(Dante and kinda order) to destroy his enemies and get "throne" for himself. But this tv, this stupid scene with lilith(Oh what have I done! I kill her baby now I shouldI put her out of misery!), this no indication of sudden "We wil rule" make him feel more like schizo. And finally Kat who is nothing more then a boobies for Dante. No backbone, no character and cliche rape past
Lets just stop here. I already tellmuch more then wanted in the begining. So long talk short - changes are not too extrime. They just not change from bad to good. They from normal to bad. From enjoyable hollow and cartoonish to Twilight saga. Thus many fans hate them.
Terrutas
Well-known Member
Don't freaking lie dude. Dante in DMC4 has 83. That's not less than half,but it's alot more. and in DMC3 he had around 115 or so. if you count all the styles.
Either check your facts,or don't mention them at all.
Okay dude,you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. It's great that you enjoy DmC,but don't talk nonsensical bullcrap about a game you either haven't played or cheesed through. It's very irritating to read this. I can see where you're coming from,as in draw could be stinger and some launchers could just be replaced by high time,but it's not true at all. You either didn't use the move correctly or have no idea what you're talking about.
You really sound like TamTamee-chan. DMC4 wasn't even close to being as bad as you make it to be,sure it's your opinion. but again,the sense of 'cool' is very subjective and you can't judge us for liking what you don't.
I get what you are saying, but all this is heavily opinionated. This is YOUR view on the game. And I accept that, you think it is cliché and have turned for the worse. But can you accept that there are some of us who enjoyed it and find the story and character development, the overall writing to be better than the original series? Because that's what I personally think.
This is my opinion: I like the story. The demon's have been given a place that isn't typical in these kind of scenarios. Instead of being this invading force who wage war against humankind and just kill everything to get what they want, they have instead taken another approach by manipulating mankind through media and such. It is not a new concept, but it is not as typical or cliché as the whole "invade and conquer" scenario that was presented in the original series.
The fact that Dante isn't the same guy all the way through the game is called character development. He is alot more complicated in DmC, he acts like he doesn't give a sh*t and just wants to live life, but he has some deep problems inside that he needs to get to terms with and Vergil is kinda forcing him to do that so he can unlock his inner power, the Devil Trigger, and become the ultimate weapon against Mundus. Where Vergil is the brains, Dante is the brawn, and through this journey Dante learns that there is more to life than just caring about himself. That is where Kat comes in. She's represents the humanity in Dante. Through her, he learns to care about others than himself, he learns that he has a responsibility as a supernatural being with the power to save the world from demons. She is a hurt individual with a dark past, but she has overcome it... and she's just human! Sure, she's got some wiccan powers, but she is a mortal none the less. And if she can overcome her inner demons, then so can Dante. She might look like this fragile little girl, but if it wasn't for her, Dante would never be able to come as far as he did throughout the story.
And in the ending, when the one he should care for the most, his long lost twin brother, the one who showed Dante that he is more than what he thought he was - when he suddenly betrays Dante by revealing the plan he had all along about taking the throne, so to speak... We who already knew of the original series, we knew Vergil had something up his sleeve, but for someone who might have never heard about the original series and didn't know of Vergil's dark intentions... That is quite a plot twist right there. All the way through there might have been some suspicion that Vergil could have an alternative agenda, especially with Vergil wanting to leave Kat with Mundus and later where he kills Lilith, but the brotherhood, the bond between Dante and Vergil that is being created throughout the game, it overshadows Vergil's dark intentions enough for it to be a surprise twist.
I can see the depth in this story. I can see the deep personalities NT has given the characters. Even Mundus, though a demonic bad guy, has a side to him that makes him almost human. The loss of his unborn son wounded him which is clearly shown in how he tears up half the city just to get to Dante and Vergil after Lilith has been killed. He's not just the unstoppable evil force who wants to control everything. He is a person, he has feelings, though as corrupt he might be. I honestly felt sorry for Lilith when seeing her reaction to having her womb shot out of her. The desperation and sorrow was pretty clear.
So yeah, there you have it. It is alright for you and anyone else to disagree with all of this and think it is complete bullsh*t, but this is my view on the story of DmC. I don't find it as shallow or cliché as some of you guys do. There are indeed some things that wasn't explained clearly enough, giving the story some plotholes... The story and the writing is not perfect. But I find it far from bad.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
This is just silly. The changes made in DmC are exactly the intention behind the reboot. They were looking to make a Devil May Cry in a more contemporary setting and they did just that. A bad teenage romance novel series has nothing to do with Devil May Cry and they don't compare whatsoever. I think you should bring your love for crappy romance books elsewhere because that's the last thing I'm thinking about and I see no comparison between the 2.
Quit acting like Devil May Cry was ever good in the narrative department. It sucked because Capcom sucks at telling stories for the most part. Vergil does not have a good justification to have his f*ck the world attitude and he was always a very sh!tty villain. Also I should just mention the fact how DMC 3's plot is pretty much a shameless rip off of Inuyasha. The last thing Devil May Cry ever was was original.
The characters are virtually the same. Dante is cocky, spouts occasional one liners, and has a sense of justice. That's Dante. Vergil still has a superiority complex and embraces the fact that he isn't human to give him a lust for power he was known for. Original Vergil was just so one dimensional and boring. Plus his outfit was stupid. Mundus actually pretty much has an actual personality this time instead of being a statue and blob of organs so it was pretty much open season with that character anyway. Kat fills in the role of the Devil May Cry girl who plays "straight man" to Dante's absurdity. I think Kat's the best DMC girl because she isn't there to be just eye candy and isn't some superhuman prostitute or otaku wet dream. The origin story was retooled a bit but it doesn't matter because it's a work of fiction that still works. I see Dante in DmC having development similar to Sparda's history making this the most Dante centric game of the bunch. No more is Dante always living in his father's shadow.
Not before you start trying to say bs like I hate the original series and crap hear me out. I love the original series as well but I can point out the obvious shortcomings. The story in DmC really plays on the fact that it is something called a social satire. It pays homage to it's over the top absurdity Devil May Cry is known for in this manner. It's obvious DmC doesn't take itself too seriously and seems like it is actually the most self aware of the bunch. I can buy intentional camp but Devil May Cry never did this the best. It's why you have such a shift from a game like Devil May Cry 1 to 2 then 3. The voice acting is the best the series has seen yet and before you start acting like the more dramatic moments make you think the game takes itself seriously, think about it. It has an obvious jab at fox news and Bill O Reilly with a level that is made of floating news and tv icons. That actually try to kill you literally. That is sure the signs of a game that takes itself seriously, really. -_-.
DmC doesn't have anything to write home about because the story and stuff isn't a masterpiece. Comparing it to the others though which were just generic straightforward anime rip offs then to me DmC isn't particularly any better but also sure as hell isn't worst. It sure delivers the best narrative in the series by sheer presentation alone and their was a real emphasis on it this time around. The gameplay is also well woven into the narrative and does a great job at pacing itself to be exactly how long these types of games should be.
DmC also has the most originality the series has seen if we're talking about aesthetics here. The level design and surreal art direction gives it a distinct identity more so than its predecessors who just used typical fire and brimstone pallet gothic design that would fit just as easily in a Castlevania game. Limbo looks fantastic. The art direction is incredible and actually takes some creative integrity with the franchise.
DmC is not perfect but, neither was the original series and I don't see how you can throw this bs at DmC and not level it with the previous series. You're giving it way too much credit. To me it's about the same as it ever was but instead of being a generic anime it actually took it in a different direction that holds more potential than anything Capcom previously left us with. They were at a creative dead end. At this point, DmC deserves to continue. It's not perfect but is a worthy successor and I look at DMC as Earth 616 and DmC as Ultimate. (like Marvel comics) Why don't you actually make up your own opinion and actually play the game for yourself. I've been a fan of Devil May Cry since it came with Code Veronica so I think I know what Devil May Cry is all about more so than most. DmC is still Devil May Cry at the end of the day.
Yet "social problem" scenario don't work with demon. At least here. As I said, we recieve companies is bad becose demons is BAAAD and that all. There are no deep conflict. Just Chosen One vs "Evil". All problems with companies in real life is becose their "badness" is only one position. They make workspace, they produse needed things.This part is completely untoched in DmC.
Theoretically you are right. Theoretically it called characters development. BUT that NOT character development in this case. In character development we have moment, situations where we can say that character begin to change, take a step in different direction. Now, what we have in DmC. Mission 1 - Dante do not care about anithing, Mission -2 - still not care but hints for revenge. Mission 3 - again not care and no revenge indication, Mission 4... Mission 19 - it was just Revenge!!111111 Mission 20 - I care about humans! So good charecter development.So well written... So deep... More like character was changed due to needs of writer to make WHAM ending. Vergil - where is indication that he begin change as character? When he begin to think about world dominance? And when he dicided about it? Again - no indication in his words or actions. Just wham in the end.And Mundus and Lilith. After they so tried to show that all his actions were for power, he suddenly turn in good dad? Again with no indication? Good CD, indeed good. Twilight style is so cool nowadays
It just pretty mediocre comics story with terrible writing. THey try to make new V for Vindetta - they fail. Thats all
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I threw DMC 4 into a fire and roasted some hot dogs on it a long time ago. I rather pretend that piece of crap doesn't exist. I don't even know what the f*ck is a Tam whatever you said and don't care. I don't think Dante is a great character. I never thought he was. Devil May Cry may be one of my favorite game series but that's just it, I love the video games. To be honest I couldn't care less about most of the characters. Dante changed with every game making the reboot no different to this trend and Dante, all of all video game characters, never falls in line with my favorites. Some of my favorite characters in video game history are like:Don't freaking lie dude. Dante in DMC4 has 83. That's not less than half,but it's alot more. and in DMC3 he had around 115 or so. if you count all the styles.
Either check your facts,or don't mention them at all.
Okay dude,you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. It's great that you enjoy DmC,but don't talk nonsensical bullcrap about a game you either haven't played or cheesed through. It's very irritating to read this. I can see where you're coming from,as in draw could be stinger and some launchers could just be replaced by high time,but it's not true at all. You either didn't use the move correctly or have no idea what you're talking about.
You really sound like TamTamee-chan. DMC4 wasn't even close to being as bad as you make it to be,sure it's your opinion. but again,the sense of 'cool' is very subjective and you can't judge us for liking what you don't.
-Multiple Metal Gear Solid characters
-Sly Cooper
-Glad0s
-John Marston
-Mega Man etc.
Sorry, but Dante never falls in line with my favorite's list. Any version of him. I like the very first version of him the best out of them all. I couldn't care less about any other one. Even the DmC one is like, well that's Dante with a haircut. I can tolerate him but he still isn't anything to write home about. Dante never was. Call me a supposedly fake fan or something now if you like but I don't care for Dante all that much. He's ok but other characters are far cooler and more interesting than he will ever be. My head canon of Dante is more entertaining than the real character.