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I don't know why people are acting like the change is "too extreme"

CheeseKao said:
Going by your logic, if I say "Calculus isn't difficult", I'm saying that calculus is factually easy since I did not put the phrase "in my opinion" in my sentence. One doesn't need to put that phrase in as any rational thinking person would know how to differentiate between opinions and facts.
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Depends on how knowledgable you are on calculus. Why would even compare that to what NT said. Knowledge and taste are two completely different things. Read the article I linked, Tammy-senpai sounds pretty confident with his statement
 
Because taste in fashion is subjective....while saying calculus is easy depends on how knowledgeable you are?

Is this a trick question? I feel like in caught up in an elaborate ruse.
 
CheeseKao said:
Going by your logic, if I say "Calculus isn't difficult", I'm saying that calculus is factually easy since I did not put the phrase "in my opinion" in my sentence. One doesn't need to put that phrase in as any rational thinking person would know how to differentiate between opinions and facts.
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Except that there's this thing called disclaimers that are usually involved

"The views and opinions expressed so and so are soley those of the original persons. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of blah blah blah so on and so forth."

If what you say is true, tell me, why does that statement ever need to exist in the first place? It's because people say things that they convey as facts even if it's simply their opinion, without that NT have been represented as a whole by one man's conveyance. You can say that "Oh man i think calculus is easy" but you aren't representing anybody, if you went on record for a company that said that and a bunch of people then said "Hey he said something that makes me feel stupid", that suddenly becomes "That company said something that makes me feel stupid"

That's why most of the time most developers will say "We feel that this isn't right" or some variation because THAT way people don't suddenly say "He's deciding our opinions for us!" or in interviews in films they'll have the disclaimer there so when somebody on the cast/crew says something like "I feel like this guy was a jackass" they're making sure that the viewer/reader/ect knows that this one guy thinks he's a jackass and shouldn't be treated as anything but what that one guy thinks.
 
Marionette Cherry said:
I just think its too casualized to be honest

Enemies don't attack you off screen?
Made to be accessible? So like, modern day gamers have to be spoon fed gratification because they can't deal with a learning curve?
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That's kinda understadnable, but you know...not everything has to be about the hardcore, that's really being selfish. It would be fun to have a game aiming straight for the hardcore, but that's not how it is in today's gaming. I once read an article about how some of the game franchises are running out cuz of the casual gamers are taking over. The only people who are calling the DMD mode in this game "easy" are the hardcore players who do their "almighty" combos in the original games. I'm stuck on mission 16 at the last part in SoS..and believe me....how do you think an average gamer would feel?

Also this game still has its learning curve too, though not like the other DMC games but it still has its learning groove.
 
How's this?

You can learn Calculus and get better at it.
However, you're going to have a hard time changing someone's opinion on their taste in whatever. That's what I should have said.

GF9000000Returns said:
That's kinda understadnable, but you know...not everything has to be about the hardcore, that's really being selfish. It would be fun to have a game aiming straight for the hardcore, but that's not how it is in today's gaming. I once read an article about how some of the game franchises are running out cuz of the casual gamers are taking over. The only people who are calling the DMD mode in this game "easy" are the hardcore players who do their "almighty" combos in the original games. I'm stuck on mission 16 at the last part in SoS..and believe me....how do you think an average gamer would feel?

Also this game still has its learning curve too, though not like the other DMC games but it still has its learning groove.
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Just saying, Hardcore games are just as accessible as Casual games.
 
Marionette Cherry said:
How's this?

You can learn Calculus and get better at it.
However, you're going to have a hard time changing someone's opinion on their taste in whatever. That's what I should have said.



Just saying, Hardcore games are just as accessible as Casual games.
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It is actually more to do with you saying that one has to put the phrase 'in my opinion' or something like that in a sentence yo show that a statement is an opinio which shouldn't always be the case.
 
GF9000000Returns said:
That's kinda understadnable, but you know...not everything has to be about the hardcore, that's really being selfish. It would be fun to have a game aiming straight for the hardcore, but that's not how it is in today's gaming. I once read an article about how some of the game franchises are running out cuz of the casual gamers are taking over. The only people who are calling the DMD mode in this game "easy" are the hardcore players who do their "almighty" combos in the original games. I'm stuck on mission 16 at the last part in SoS..and believe me....how do you think an average gamer would feel?

Also this game still has its learning curve too, though not like the other DMC games but it still has its learning groove.
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I don't use any "almighty" combos, you won't see me busting out the recording software (assuming i even had it) to make a combo video any time soon. I practice how to utilise the style of my choice until i'm good enough to fight at any level of difficulty, it wasn't for a long time until i was able to use royal guard properly but because i enjoyed the game's flexibility with how i could approach it, i was more then happy to put the time into that practice. Even now i'm not THAT great at it, but i can use it enough to feel like i'm being rewarded for my efforts.
 
ZeroLove said:
This is what I meant! People are taking the statement too literally and keeps whining about it. *sigh*
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I should start saying controversial things and then when people on this forum get angry at me I'll say "But you weren't supposed to take me literally" That's a good get out of jail card, why didn't I think of that?

CheeseKao said:
It is actually more to do with you saying that one has to put the phrase 'in my opinion' or something like that in a sentence yo show that a statement is an opinio which shouldn't always be the case.
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Alright, I guess I can dig that.
 
Views
Rayl said:
Except that there's this thing called disclaimers that are usually involved

"The views and opinions expressed so and so are soley those of the original persons. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of blah blah blah so on and so forth."

If what you say is true, tell me, why does that statement ever need to exist in the first place? It's because people say things that they convey as facts even if it's simply their opinion, without that NT have been represented as a whole by one man's conveyance. You can say that "Oh man i think calculus is easy" but you aren't representing anybody, if you went on record for a company that said that and a bunch of people then said "Hey he said something that makes me feel stupid", that suddenly becomes "That company said something that makes me feel stupid"

That's why most of the time most developers will say "We feel that this isn't right" or some variation because THAT way people don't suddenly say "He's deciding our opinions for us!" or in interviews in films they'll have the disclaimer there so when somebody on the cast/crew says something like "I feel like this guy was a jackass" they're making sure that the viewer/reader/ect knows that this one guy thinks he's a jackass and shouldn't be treated as anything but what that one guy thinks.
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If you think that way then that's fine but to me, unless a person specifically says that his or her view is shared by his or her entire company, I take that person's statement as his own personal opinion, nothing more.
 
Marionette Cherry said:
How's this?

You can learn Calculus and get better at it.
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That's something important to learn. Games on the other hand are not.




Marionette Cherry said:
Just saying, Hardcore games are just as accessible as Casual games.
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To you they are, not to other people. Don't get me wrong, I hate some of today's gaming too like COD, but if a game is getting too hard to play for people who DON'T play COD, sometimes it's best to stay away from it. Like I said again, games are not really important to learn.


Rayl said:
I don't use any "almighty" combos, you won't see me busting out the recording software (assuming i even had it) to make a combo video any time soon. I practice how to utilise the style of my choice until i'm good enough to fight at any level of difficulty, it wasn't for a long time until i was able to use royal guard properly but because i enjoyed the game's flexibility with how i could approach it, i was more then happy to put the time into that practice. Even now i'm not THAT great at it, but i can use it enough to feel like i'm being rewarded for my efforts.
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Like I said to the other guy, that's on YOU! You gotta accept the fact that today's gaming isn't really all about that.
 
GF9000000Returns said:
Like I said to the other guy, that's on YOU! You gotta accept the fact that today's gaming isn't really all about that.
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Do you have ANY understanding of how selfish you sound? You can't possibly because you wouldn't have said something that screams "I WANT GAMES TO CENTER AROUND ME! ME!ME!ME!ME!ME!" Why can't games have something for the rest of us huh? Because that's all i've asked for in this thread but apparently that's too much to ask from you. I'm beyond disgusted now, well god damn well done.
 
ZeroLove said:
Should we all take this as a pure fact? Or as a personal opinion of yours? Because I see no "in my opinion" in that sentence.
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No one is stopping your average gamer from learning the ropes, nothing to do with facts or opinions anyone can learn to play the game if they want or not. Wait it is a fact that anything is accesible I can read a book I've never heard of and see if it's for me, same with a movie and a starts with a V second word G. Video game.

Mind blown.
 
Rayl said:
Do you have ANY understanding of how selfish you sound? You can't possibly because you wouldn't have said something that screams "I WANT GAMES TO CENTER AROUND ME! ME!ME!ME!ME!ME!" Why can't games have something for the rest of us huh? Because that's all i've asked for in this thread but apparently that's too much to ask from you. I'm beyond disgusted now, well god damn well done.
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When did I ever say that I wanted games to be all about myself? NEVER! All I'm trying to say is that most of today's gamers are really not into learning curves. If you play real hardcore fighting games like King of Fighters, you would understand. I'm talking about today's playing style, not mine.
 
Marionette Cherry said:
No one is stopping your average gamer from learning the ropes, nothing to do with facts or opinions anyone can learn to play the game if they want or not. Wait it is a fact that anything is accesible I can read a book I've never heard of and see if it's for me, same with a movie and a starts with a V second word G. Video game.

Mind blown.
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Everyone can learn... but that's not what accessibility is about. It's about making it easy for new gamers or casual gamers to learn the game. Easy to learn, hard to master - a phrase many game developers try to form their games from.
Making a game hard from the very start is not accessibility.

Edit: That first sentence came out wrong, but I hope you know what I mean.
 
But the old DMCs were easy to learn?

I've been playing DMC for about 3 years now and do the "almighty" combos people speak of, however when I bought the game that wasn't my intention. I enjoyed how accessible the combat was which kept me coming back and I was a terrible, TERRIBLE player. Then I saw the advanced things and becuase of my confidence from how accessible everything was I thought I'd have a go. I failed at first but rather than just saying "oh that's too hard" I stuck with it and the rewarding feeling has been great. It gave me something to do when the experience was finished and has kept me playing all this time and it all stems from the initial accessibility I had.

What exactly makes DmC more accessible gameplay wise than DMC?
 
Actually no, you're saying that apparently i shouldn't be rewarded for putting in practice and getting rewarded for it, that instead i should be satisfied with a battle system so pathetically easy that it only tailors to people who don't care about that sort of thing. I'm selfish for apparently wanting something easy to pick up but difficult to master. THIS is what you imply and THAT is what gets on my nerves. Why should i be denied when all i want is to feel rewarded for my efforts? Not all gamers play for the simple satisfaction of just finishing the story, some of us like to have reason for continued play and to challenge our own personal limits. DmC does NOT offer this on the scale of previous games and that's what i was trying to discuss here.

You paint a picture of me wanting a game that's too hard for "casuals" to pick up, which i'm calling you out for as a load of bull, ever since i started posting in this thread i've never even HINTED at wanting any player shut out, instead i'm making a case for why the style system could have been better implemented into DMC4 and by extension future DMC/DmC games. So that everybody can have fun, feel good about the moves they're doing while giving that extension to players who like to chain together all those combos and rack up a massive score by performing in style.

So tell me again exactly, how am i being selfish, as opposed to you who says "Gaming isn't about what you want." It SHOULD be what i want. It SHOULD be what others like me want. But that says NOTHING about it not being able to be what YOU want too.
 
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