DMC5 Review

[Vergil95]

They can, because that's how it works in the real world.

If you release your own entertainment media, anyone can totally give a review or feedback based on portions of what they watched or read.
This is especially if your work is up to be rated by anyone, such as the "Like/Dislike" system in YouTube.
Someone watching a movie can just walk out of the theater halfway if they think the show is boring and not worth watching the rest.
Nobody can force these people to watch the rest of the movie.

I should also remind you, online services like Steam, PSN & XBL also allows users to rate a game just by owning them (some only for digital purchases).
Someone can give a 1 star rating just by playing the first hour of a game.
Sometimes, the starting of a game can leave a bad impression on the player, resulting in them having enough.

Why?
Because this is just how the world works.
If any of you have problems with someone giving a negative review for a media they didn't fully experience, then you can go ahead and implement a law or system that verifies someone has finished watching a movie or playing a game before they can "rightfully" give feedback.
It's easier said than done.

Like it or not, this is the reality.
Go ahead and release your own entertainment media and force everyone to only give feedback after they finish experiencing it.
You'll accumulate a reputation of being an overly-defensive, whiny person quickly.


That's not what we're talking about at all.
We're not discussing about "knowing enough to have a conversation about it".
We're talking about how anyone can watch only a portion of a media and give a negative feedback about it, because everyone has the freedom to do so.

Infact in the real world critic and reviewer watch movie, read book and play video games until the end to make a review...
What people on steam and other media say it's pretty useless and stupid in my opinion because I will never take them seriously, if I had to buy a game or watch a movie I will never listen to this critics but I will go read good criticism

People who criticize and give feedback on something they didn't even watch are people whit zero credibility, yeah they can give their opinion of course but it's a pretty stupid and useles opinion If you ask me

If you like to be like this enjoy it but the real world of criticism and feedback is totally different

 

[Goldsickle]

in my opinion

Your opinion can't change the world.
This isn't the first and last video I've Disliked after only watching an incomplete portion and I am free to continue doing so.

It's pointless to rant about how much you don't like the act.
It's not a crime and you can't stop it.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Infact in the real world critic and reviewer watch movie, read book and play video games until the end to make a review...
What people on steam and other media say it's pretty useless and stupid in my opinion because I will never take them seriously, if I had to buy a game or watch a movie I will never listen to this critics but I will go read good criticism

People who criticize and give feedback on something they didn't even watch are people whit zero credibility, yeah they can give their opinion of course but it's a pretty stupid and useles opinion If you ask me

If you like to be like this enjoy it but the real world of criticism and feedback is totally different

This whole comment is spot on, actually, credit where it's due. Just because the practice exists and is allowed doesn't mean it's a good or sensible one.

@Kcritic
At this point I think if there's one thing you can take away in terms of bettering yourself as a reviewer, it's maybe to reduce the length a little. Some people can't bear to watch an hour long review, as much as I understand being passionate about it, which leads to being that long winded.

Perhaps the ideal is some middle ground, I think 15-20 mins is good enough to be... uhm... concisely thorough?

 

[Vergil95]

Your opinion can't change the world.
This isn't the first and last video I've Disliked after only watching an incomplete portion and I am free to continue doing so.

It's pointless to rant about how much you don't like the act.
It's not a crime and you can't stop it.

You perspective of the world my friend, because the world is not what you say

Since I should stop ranting, you should probably stop thinking that the world is what you say and think, because the world my friend it's really vast and it's not just a closed mind like yours...
I never remember in my life during an exam at school or in any other things that someone readed only one page of it or just one line and give a total feedback on the entire exame, I think that only superficial and uselles teacher or person do what you say

Of course you can continue to act like that, nobody telled you to not do this, I simply suggested you to only watch something until the end to give a review, and be more polished whit people when talking to them, if you want to take this suggestion or not is fine but we are in many people who are suggesting you this...

Now enjoy yourself by doing and reading review and give feedback whit only 5 minutes of movie watched and game played, and 5 pages of book and comics readed, I will enjoy myself by watching reading and playing things until the end, since anyone is free to do what they want

 

[Dark Drakan]

In my experience you can form an opinion on liking something before you finish it, however you cannot judge a whole product without experiencing the entire thing as intended.

As a food critic for example you could taste a meal and not like it but you could only offer criticism for the part you actually tasted. If you didn’t taste every element on the plate you couldn’t offer anything of any value to anyone outside of what you tasted 1st hand as you would be basing your opinion on personal speculation and assumption.

In this case you can offer a criticism of what you have seen of course but you won’t be able to offer any further criticism, constructive or not on anything you didn’t actually watch. You can only form an opinion based on your impressions & assumption of the tone which was set by early parts you actually saw.

 

[Goldsickle]

You perspective of the world my friend, because the world is not what you say

It's not "my perspective".
It's just how the world works.

You're all vulnerable to this as soon as you create content to show to the world.

it's not just a closed mind like yours...

And what's that about "respecting" others again?
It's as I said, you're a hypocrite.

Now enjoy yourself

I totally will.

As a food critic for example you could taste a meal and not like it but you could only offer criticism for the part you actually tasted.

Judging a food without even tasting it is something that totally happens.
Gordon Ramsay for example, will cut open a food, see that it's raw and judges that it's a poor product without taking a bite.
It's not limited to raw food but there was an episode of Restaurant Makeover, where the host throws away a food without eating it just from observing how it's cooked (the cooking method is not up to professional standards).

Professional critic or not, people can and will judge a product just by observing it, without even experiencing it.
Sometimes, a little observation tells a bit about the product and even the content creator.

It doesn't matter how much you think the practice is immoral or maybe even consider it a crime, it's something that will happen and it's beyond anyone's control.
Keeping someone interested enough to experience your whole product is a part of creating content.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Judging a food without even tasting it is something that totally happens.
Gordon Ramsay for example, will cut open a food, see that it's raw and judges that it's a poor product without taking a bite.

It's not limited to raw food but there was an episode of Restaurant Makeover, where the host throws away a food without eating it just from observing how it's cooked (the cooking method is not up to professional standards).

Maybe so but you can only critique one aspect in that scenario the aesthetics. You can form an opinion based on the assumption that it tastes bad but you don’t know that by simply looking at it. This is based on professional standards as you said but if something is dangerous (raw) it must be thrown. However if it were a home cooked meal it wouldnt be judged on looks alone and some of best tasting meals dont look great.

Same as you can assume you disagree with a whole video but you can’t know that unless you have seen it all.

Professional critic or not, people can and will judge a product just by observing it, without even experiencing it.
Sometimes, a little observation tells a bit about the product and even the content creator.

Then you are making a judgement on the creator and not the individual piece of work itself.

Many games I’ve played that have not had the best starts but have came together as a whole package as I’ve gone on. Had I given up after that initial first impression & formed an opinion on the entire product as a whole based on that it would have been misinformed & inaccurate.

If you are on a roller-coaster and get off before the drop can you say the whole ride wasn’t a thrill? Normally says more about a persons patience and attention span than it does about the product itself.

It doesn't matter how much you think the practice is immoral or maybe even consider it a crime, it's something that will happen and it's beyond anyone's control.
Keeping someone interested enough to experience your whole product is a part of creating content.

Again you are assuming I think its immoral or a crime (which I dont) its more a case of without fully experiencing something you cant critique a whole product, only the parts that you experienced or read someone else post about to get more information.

As a content creator it is indeed part of the job to keep someones interest but getting facts over is sometimes more important than being overly interesting. Depends what people want when they come to view it, some people have longer attention spans, some people want more details, some people want a brief summary and you cant please everyone. However you can cover all the facts and give all the details people need to know and make informative content without being entertaining as such.

So going back to DMC5 review, if you had to pick out your favorite part and least favorite part of the review, what would it be?

He is asking for opinions above...

But you would only be able to answer this based on what you viewed rather than the review as a whole.

Why not let the so-called reviewer speak for himself?

At least confirm if he's actually offended or something?

You're wasting your time, trying to defend him, when he's totally forgotten about this board.

Seems like he only created an account purely to advertise his crappy "review" and run off.

He did and you ignored it and have passed it off in an insulting manner calling it crappy and when he asked you to view it in its entirety you said you didnt want to.That isnt constructive in any way shape or form its just insulting.

I don't appreciate it when you say my stuff is awful and yet you only watched 15 minutes out of the 55 minute video.

I don't want to.

If I want to read what a DmC hater says, I can just read a s***post in GameFAQs.

I don't need to watch it in video form.

You watched approximately 27.27% of something and then formed this opinion on the whole of it.

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Dragged on ranting isn't something I wanna waste my time on.

This isnt something I want to waste my time on either...

Rather than derailing things any further trying to justify how you personally form your opinions. How about offering some constructive feedback as its coming across as ranting too.

Or step out of the thread because you clearly didnt enjoy it and will therefore only offer negative feedback & leave others to discuss it between themselves. Most important thing to me in scenarios like this is how the community comes across to newer members and its not very inviting to see long exchanges of this manner.

 

[Goldsickle]

Many games I’ve played that have not had the best starts but have came together as a whole package as I’ve gone on. Had I given up after that initial first impression & formed an opinion on the entire product as a whole based on that it would have been misinformed & inaccurate.

My point is that people making "final judgments" based on experiencing a portion of a product or just by glancing it can happen and will continue to happen.
It's something completely out of your control, no matter how much you disagree with it.

You can go ahead and make it a personal rule to complete every single game you play before making your final judgment but you can't expect others to do the same.

If you made your own game and people judge it as "boring" and "not worth completing" based on the early portion, then it's on you because you failed to make it interesting to these players.
You can go ahead and call out to these people, claiming that they have "no rights" to judge your work from only experiencing a portion of it but the reality is that they can.
It works both ways, since you can also completely ignore all the players who never completed your game.
But if you find way too many players not playing to completion, then you probably need to start listening to why they aren't interested enough to play the whole thing, if you care about people experiencing your works.

 

[Dark Drakan]

My point is that people making "final judgments" based on experiencing a portion of a product or just by glancing it can happen and will continue to happen.

You can go ahead and make it a personal rule to complete every single game you play before making your final judgment but you can't expect others to do the same.

If you made your own game and people judge it as "boring" and "not worth completing" based on the early portion, then it's on you because you failed to make it interesting to these players.

You may have failed to make the early portion interesting in this scenario, the rest of the game could be an adrenaline fueled ride but they would never know. However it would be valid criticism of that early portion of course but not the entire game package.

By all means people can offer feedback on what they did actually play/see as that is how products improve but I would take someones feedback at face value in that scenario. If there is a pattern emerging then of course you would have to change something based on that feedback but those that stopped early couldnt offer any advice on anything after the point they stopped.

I would pay more attention to people who took the time to experience the entire thing and change the game as a whole not just a tiny section as they would likely offer similar criticism if start of game genuinely needed looking at (for example) but their feedback would be more detailed as they have more information and knowledge of the product.

You can go ahead and call out to these people, claiming that they have "no rights" to judge your work from only experiencing a portion of it but the reality is that they can.

It works both ways, since you can also completely ignore all the players who never completed your game.
But if you find way too many players not playing to completion, then you probably need to start listening to why they aren't interested enough to play the whole thing, if you care about people experiencing your works.

I didnt say anything about anyone having 'no right' to judge it at all or completely ignoring people. Just that you cant critique all aspects if you havent experienced them or read about them.

For example it would be like people judging this entire community and forums based on this thread having seen no other material. It could potentially put someone off the entire site based on the comments & attitude in here and that would be an unfair way to judge a whole community of members. Or an entire music album based on the intro track...

Hes actually asked for peoples favourite/least favourite parts of the video for example but you can only base yours on what you actually saw rather than the video as a whole.

My point is that people making "final judgments" based on experiencing a portion of a product or just by glancing it can happen and will continue to happen.

The only conclusion I got from your "feedback" to the creator was 'I dont agree with your opinion, you are wrong and should change it.' Sounds more like you heard something you didnt agree with and then hit that dislike button instantly and decided it was 'crappy' straight away.

Calling something a waste of time and crappy isnt constructive detailed feedback, it was only after about the 6th post you put in here you actually specified the part you were referring to. You offered no positive feedback at all and even with products I havent fully enjoyed there are elements I have liked.

You also have to understand that your opinion is subjective and not everyone would agree either so changing something to just suit you wouldnt suit everyone. Though you are referring to his apparent criticism of a product as ranting but then are essentially doing the same with your own criticism of his product too.
.
So no more of the oneupmanship posts in here and lets get back to the topic as im done wasting time going in circles and taking attention away from someones hard work.

 

[Goldsickle]

the rest of the game could be an adrenaline fueled ride but they would never know.

It could but you can't force people to play the rest of the game if they don't feel like it.
Sometimes, early portions of the game can give a hint to what the rest of the game be.
If combat is repetitive and boring, then it's natural for people to draw conclusions that the rest of the game will be the same thing.
You can keep pushing the standards that a content can't be judged until it's fully experienced but people will continue to draw conclusions based on an early portion of the game.

but those that stopped early couldnt offer any advice on anything after the point they stopped.

They still can help with telling you why they stopped.
If you can pinpoint the problem on what made them stop in the first place, then you could take this into consideration and either update the current game or use what you know to improve upon your next game.

I would pay more attention to people who took the time to experience the entire thing

That's unwise if you want as many people as possible playing your game.
You'd have to pay more attention to as many people as you can, regardless of the kind of players.
Even companies taking surveys don't judge people based on how much they play and takes notes from every type of player who participated.
When Capcom is taking surveys for Resident Evil, they don't care if you played every single game in the series or if you have never played it.
Input from someone unfamiliar with the series is still input.

I didnt say anything about anyone having 'no right' to judge it at all or completely ignoring people.

I'm just saying that you can "go ahead" and do these things if you want.
Like I said, criticism and listening to critics works both ways.
You can even totally ignore everything I say and just "stick to your guns".

 

[Vergil95]

And what's that about "respecting" others again?
It's as I said, you're a hypocrite

But that's true your mind is closed, it's not an offense, I'm respecting you but your mind is definitely closed to accepting suggestion or different opinion...

Also you are saying that early portion of a product can give what the rest of the product is, if it's bad boring ecc...
Than watch about dmc 2 or 4?
If I play the first mission in dmc 2 and express my self, I will say that it's a really good game better than the first one, but than I will continue playing and realize how bad it is but you cannot say this unless you didn't play the whole boring game...
Also dmc 4 look perfect in the start until you realize that there is a backtraking part, that I think it's good but maybe a bit weird And take off something to the game...
Also dmc 5, if you play only the first chapter how can you judge the game? I mean you only play as nero, you cannot give judgment on V and dante gameplay who are fondamentale to make a review or give feedback to dmc 5
What about metal gear solid 2?
If you play only the beginning you play as snake but later you play as Raiden and it's totally differente perspective, something that people my like or not, but how can someone give a real important judgment about the game...

You see intelligent people play portion of the game and can say: I like the first chapter will se whit the other chapters if it's still good or not.... Or they can say, I play the first portion of the game but I find it boring and bad but who knows maybe later it will become better even if it is unlikely, but I have many suggestion for the developer that will help improve their later product
But only stupid and superficial people play game and watch movie and read book and say: I watched 5 minutes of it and it was boring and trash and ****, I will not waste my time on it, this things sucks.... You see there is nothing constructive here

Yeah things like this exist in the world but I don't think someone will get this people serious and go watch a movie or buy a game by reading their review or feedback

It's also thank to constructive review and feedback that new good product are made...

 

[Dark Drakan]

No point going around in any more circles people need to agree to disagree as people have formed their opinions and move on rather than taking any more attention away from the video itself. If you want to continue the discussion take it to PM's outside of the thread itself.

If anyone continues to derail the thread they will be banned from commenting in here.​

 

[Goldsickle]

But that's true your mind is closed,

Don't ever tell me you "respect" others anymore.
You don't have any respectful attitude.

Also you are saying that early portion of a product can give what the rest of the product is,

I did not.

You see intelligent people play portion of the game and can say:

"Intelligent" people would understand the kind of point I'm making and not put words in my mouth.

 

[Vergil95]

Sometimes, early portions of the game can give a hint to what the rest of the game be.

You said it yourself I'm not inventing anything

However I will stop here because this Is getting ridiculous

 

[berto]

So going back to DMC5 review, if you had to pick out your favorite part and least favorite part of the review, what would it be?

If you want my feedback as a graphic designer, editor and compositor you need to work on your audio levels. Your voice should be louder, the most prominent thing in the video but there are times where it gets too soft. Also, try some noise reduction filters, those are available on most free audio softwares, too. I hear something off from your vocals and I can't put my finger on it.. If it turns out it's not the noise it could just be that you are too close to the microphone since I can hear the audio spikes on your p's. It's not a major issue, it's something of a work based thing with me since I've had to listen to and fix hours of talk I tend to be picky about these things. If you keep your vocals to -6 to -3 it should be a good balance, just don't drown out everything else with your voice.

Your editing is fine. Good use of clips to make your point, kept the audio lowered to add to the background so it's not just you and the music, it's your own gameplay to demonstrate you played through the game. It's a lot of work, I know, specially with 55 minutes of footage trimmed from a possible larger number of hours. With that being said, some of the clips seemed superfluously long, specifically the ones where you're not talking; trimming those down a bit would help make the video not feel as long. Tempo is very important to any time based media, like film, music or theatre, and those clips really slow the tempo of your video. I know you're making a point but trimming them down would've helped to keep things from slowing down.

As for the review it self, you gushed a lot of the time about a lot of the elements of the game. As a fan video it's fine but as a review you want to not only be objective but look the part, too. Since this is a personal video review I can't fault you for your excitement so it's not a big deal and seeing how you were also vocal about the things you didn't like it's not as thought you came off as bias about the whole ordeal.

Overall it's not a bad video but it is very long. Needlessly so. I had to watch in fragments because it just took forever to get through and it was rather taxing watching the whole thing. I know you wanted to say a lot but less is often more. Going through the whole game, section by section, and presenting your thoughts isn't an issue, it's done all the time, but being more concise and to the point will help alleviate the viewer. You don't have to get rid of the jokes or fanboy moments and, in fact, those are great to keep the whole thing upbeat. It's a matter of keeping things simple. Imagine reading a book that is too descriptive. I don't want to discourage you so don't take it the wrong way. All I'm saying is trim the fat some more and work on your audio. Overall, not too shabby.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

So I wasn't gonna bother watching the video when this thread was first posted. Simply cause the review was nearly an hour long. But seeing........whatever was going on in this thread, I felt the op deserved the views.

So, my only real critique is just the sheer length of it. I felt like you could have shortened it down a bit by maybe instead of going over the other games in the beginning, you could have just given them their own videos (Not that you were "ranting", like wtf to that one), also all the times you paused and just played cutscenes, maybe do that a little less. Or when you got to talking about Dante and just let Devils Never Cry play to some footage of Dante for a bit. Just some ideas to shorten it a bit

Other then that, I thought it was good. You definitely touched on a lot of the things that made the game great, and were very enthusiastic about it which was nice to listen to. I even agree with a few of your criticisms. (V can be a bit repetitive, and I wish Nero could switch between Devil Breakers freely. Personally I like the more photo-realistic look)

Overall, good video :thumbsup:

 

[ShiningTempest]

A game like DMC5 only deserves hours and hours of analysis. This is why I never paid any attention to "professional" reviewers that only beat the game once.

 

[berto]

A game like DMC5 only deserves hours and hours of analysis. This is why I never paid any attention to "professional" reviewers that only beat the game once.

You're partially right. You can only judge games like Bayonetta, DMC or MGR and even DmC after multiple playthroughs. The big reviewers don't have the option of playing games repeatedly, over and over again, to get the full grasp of what any game is capable of. They have to turn in the review and move on to the next game bore it releases. But hours and hours? Think of the viewer. How many hour long videos will you watch on the same game? How many before you will just turn 'em off because you just saw the one or two or three hour long videos? This is also why reviews tend to be short. Your average consumer doesn't have time to watch a whole hour just to determine if they should buy or not.

 

[Vergil95]

You're partially right. You can only judge games like Bayonetta, DMC or MGR and even DmC after multiple playthroughs. The big reviewers don't have the option of playing games repeatedly, over and over again, to get the full grasp of what any game is capable of. They have to turn in the review and move on to the next game bore it releases. But hours and hours? Think of the viewer. How many hour long videos will you watch on the same game? How many before you will just turn 'em off because you just saw the one or two or three hour long videos? This is also why reviews tend to be short. Your average consumer doesn't have time to watch a whole hour just to determine if they should buy or not.

Actually review tend to play the game multiple time, at least some game, before review, Infac when I read the dmc 5 review they all talk about the different difficulties level and how the demon hunter mode was to easy to begin the game compared to son of sparda and dante must die...
But you have right review had to be short, no one will ever listen to an hour or 3 hour of review, they must be streight and deliver a summation of what the game is