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DmC sources

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GamblingGambitCloud said:
3) I'm saying that they had the idea for HS finishers and stances from other games. Therefore, the other games would be inspiration for the gameplay as well as HS and not HS directly. I'm saying you're putting all of your eggs in one basket and putting way too much credit in HS. The game itself looks completely different. And who says they HAVE to have been inspired by it? Maybe they just genuinely enjoy putting that type of gameplay in, without essentially looking at their past games. Again, I'll go to Ubisoft as an example. Just because they make amazing Splinter Cell games does not mean that every game they make that includes sneaking around or being a spy is based off of Splinter Cell. Just because platforming in Prince of Persia is amazing does not mean it gave them the idea for Assassin's Creed. And just because NT had finishers and stances in Heavenly Sword does not mean it inspired or even led to anything created in Devil May Cry.
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why are you so against the idea of Ninja Theory basing some elements of DmC gameplay on Heavenly Sword? there doesn't seem to be any reason to argue about it.

Heavenly Sword is a game made by Ninja Theory that has three stances (one balanced one focused on power one focused on speed ) selected by holding down L1 or R1

DmC is a game made by Ninja Theory that has three forms (one balanced one focused on power one focused on speed ) selected by holding down L2 or R2 (LT and RT on Xbox 360)

most of DmC's gameplay is based on Devil May Cry. but there is no way you can reasonably say the three forms are not a more refined version of the three stances from Heavenly Sword.
 
GamblingGambitCloud said:
1) David Hume was not the first person to talk about the good and evil in humans, nor is he the first to mention humanity's internal struggle between the two sides. Every single philosopher in history has, first of all. Second of all, you could find that connection anywhere. The Bible has the struggle as one of it's undertones. I think you're really zooming in too far when there is so much of a broader scope.

2) It is VERY dismissible, since heavenly doesn't exactly mean from heaven or of angels. It could mean benevolent, sacred, extraordinary, etc.

3) I'm saying that they had the idea for HS finishers and stances from other games. Therefore, the other games would be inspiration for the gameplay as well as HS and not HS directly. I'm saying you're putting all of your eggs in one basket and putting way too much credit in HS. The game itself looks completely different. And who says they HAVE to have been inspired by it? Maybe they just genuinely enjoy putting that type of gameplay in, without essentially looking at their past games. Again, I'll go to Ubisoft as an example. Just because they make amazing Splinter Cell games does not mean that every game they make that includes sneaking around or being a spy is based off of Splinter Cell. Just because platforming in Prince of Persia is amazing does not mean it gave them the idea for Assassin's Creed. And just because NT had finishers and stances in Heavenly Sword does not mean it inspired or even led to anything created in Devil May Cry.
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1) Indeed David Hume is not the only person. But i am suggesting that David Hume may be the source that the idea of a angel form. The fact that David Hume quote is shown in DmC trailer supports my suggestion. It makes the suggestion possible.

2) I believe i dismissed angel suggestion long time ago?

3) So Ninja theory borrowed cutscene finisher and stance from other games and applied it to Heavenly sword. And for DmC they again borrowed the same ideas and applied it to DmC. So out of all the many ideas that they could "borrow" from tons of games - they borrowed the same ideas for DmC that they used for Heavenly sword.

Seriously? Are you trying to tell me they didn´t look at Heavenly sword and think "Those ideas in HS is good"? Of course they thought that. Because the ideas that you suggest they borrowed from other games are the same that they borrowed from HS.

Assassins Creed - sneaky Italian killer (agility)
Splinter Cell - Sneaky modern killer (agility)
Prince of Persia - Persian prince that is sneaky too (agility)

I am 100% sure Assassins Creed used all gameplay knowledge that developers acquired from Prince of Persia.
 
I'm confused on what cut-scene finishers are found in DmC? Because i've seen a camera change in mid combo to dramatize the kill hit, but there was never a time where, as in HS, did the game take full control and you sat back and watched a cut scene.
The stances in DmC are basically the same as HS on paper, because you have to hold a button down to switch weapons. But what comes after and how combos are non stop, air combos and the compete overhaul the mechanics have went through, make NT's, not HS, weapon switching completely new and improved.
 
Can I ask something? What do we exactly mean with inspiration here?
For me inspiration is something that is there (in my mind) all the time, and makes me do things, write things, draw things, etc. It's not one movie, or one show, rather what the show/anything is about or has. For example, if I like the concept of Devils a lot, I'm bound to watch many shows, read many books, play many games etc. to see more about them and expand my knowledge. The shows/books/games/etc. did not inspire me to draw/write/etc. , the fact that I like this kind of thing did. And it's natural. At least for me :)

However in this thread all I see is some sort of way to associate as many things as possible with the new DmC.
Is this your idea of inspiration guys?:confused: - I'm not being sarcastic by the way;)
 
You said this Gambling:
GamblingGambitCloud said:
Again, I'll go to Ubisoft as an example. Just because they make amazing Splinter Cell games does not mean that every game they make that includes sneaking around or being a spy is based off of Splinter Cell. Just because platforming in Prince of Persia is amazing does not mean it gave them the idea for Assassin's Creed.
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And i replied:

Prince of Persia - sneaky attacks like an assassin
Assassin's creed - An assassin
Splinter Cell - assassin attacks

I am not saying every game devleopers make are the same. But they use what they learn from a game and apply it to another game. And that is why the stances and cutscene finishers are taken from Heavenly sword, even though cinematics isn't something entitled to any game in particular , when the cinematics were applied to DmC it was because of Heavenly sword.



It's very obvious Assassins creeds ideas come from Prince of Persia.
It's very obvious that Ubisoft has made THREE games that is assassin like (Prince of Persia, ASsassins, SplinteR Cell).

If for example Ninja theory's idea of adding cinematics and stances to DmC came from a other source - a other game than their own Heavenly sword which has both ideas.
Then WHY was both these two particular ideas (that hs also have) picked to be used in DmC?

Even Ninja theory's way of making games is the same : Story focused games ---.
Heavenly sword
Enslaved
Now DmC

Point: Why should i believe that cinematics and stances are not ideas used in DmC because Heavenly sword had it?


And yet you post "No, it's not like that". It IS LIKE THAT.

Tony_Redgrave said:
Can I ask something? What do we exactly mean with inspiration here?
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Inspiration to me means being influenced by someone or something in a positive way.
For example if someone is a good human being one might be inspired to be a good human.
If you see someone be great at art you may be inspired to achieve such greatness too.
 
Further arguments for Ninja theory using cinematic finishers because of their games (mainly Heavenly sword), and that the stances was implented into DmC because of HS as well:

Enslaved:
1:46

DmC:
0:28

Heavenly sword:
1:48


Three games:
All three have cinematics attacks/finishers.
Surprise? No.


Heavenly sword idea used in Enslaved:
1:08 - long range attack and be able to controll the missile/shot.

In Enslaved, angle has been changed and the missile is instant and not controllable. And because of this it's not in slow mow:
0:12


Both Nariko and Monkey are using a missile shooting attack.
Point: It goes to show that idea from game A has been used in game B. Of course it's not exactly the same way but the attack is basically the same. And if your observant as well Monkey spins around like how Nariko spins around when attacking. Both using legs and whole body in spinning attacks.
 
I still dont see DmC using cinematic cut scenes. The only relationship between the two is holding down a button to change a weapon. And maybe capcom saw how nt's version on weapon changing was and proposed the deal.(all speculation)
 
wallenb said:
I still dont see DmC using cinematic cut scenes. The only relationship between the two is holding down a button to change a weapon. And maybe capcom saw how nt's version on weapon changing was and proposed the deal.(all speculation)
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Do you know what cinematics/cutscenes are?
 
CoolDemon said:
You said this Gambling:

And i replied:

Prince of Persia - sneaky attacks like an assassin
Assassin's creed - An assassin
Splinter Cell - assassin attacks

I am not saying every game devleopers make are the same. But they use what they learn from a game and apply it to another game. And that is why the stances and cutscene finishers are taken from Heavenly sword, even though cinematics isn't something entitled to any game in particular , when the cinematics were applied to DmC it was because of Heavenly sword.



It's very obvious Assassins creeds ideas come from Prince of Persia.
It's very obvious that Ubisoft has made THREE games that is assassin like (Prince of Persia, ASsassins, SplinteR Cell).

If for example Ninja theory's idea of adding cinematics and stances to DmC came from a other source - a other game than their own Heavenly sword which has both ideas.
Then WHY was both these two particular ideas (that hs also have) picked to be used in DmC?

Even Ninja theory's way of making games is the same : Story focused games ---.
Heavenly sword
Enslaved
Now DmC

Point: Why should i believe that cinematics and stances are not ideas used in DmC because Heavenly sword had it?


And yet you post "No, it's not like that". It IS LIKE THAT.



Inspiration to me means being influenced by someone or something in a positive way.
For example if someone is a good human being one might be inspired to be a good human.
If you see someone be great at art you may be inspired to achieve such greatness too.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't make sense. Just because they make games a certain way does not mean that past games inspire future ones. They have a certain developing process (story first) and they have a certain style of gameplay that they like and are used to (hold button down, cutscenes, etc). That does NOT mean that each game cumulatively improves or inspires the next game that is COMPLETELY unrelated. Bethesda does NOT use Fallout to inspire Elder Scrolls games. Or let's use another media type. For example, Christopher Nolan has a certain way of filming. The Dark Knight DID NOT HAVE ANY BARING WHATSOEVER on Inception. George Lucas has a way of directing. Guess what, Star Wars is NOTHING LIKE Indiana Jones, though he uses the same methods and styles. Or let's talk about books. Alexander Dumas has a way of writing. The Three Muskateers is not at all inspired by The Count of Monte Cristo. Or we could look at Edgar Allen Poe, as The Raven is nothing at all like A Tell-Tale Heart. Just because a group, writer, author, whatever uses a particular style does not mean past works speak for or have any effect on current projects.
 
GamblingGambitCloud said:
I'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't make sense. Just because they make games a certain way does not mean that past games inspire future ones. They have a certain developing process (story first) and they have a certain style of gameplay that they like and are used to (hold button down, cutscenes, etc). That does NOT mean that each game cumulatively improves or inspires the next game that is COMPLETELY unrelated. Bethesda does NOT use Fallout to inspire Elder Scrolls games. Or let's use another media type. For example, Christopher Nolan has a certain way of filming. The Dark Knight DID NOT HAVE ANY BARING WHATSOEVER on Inception. George Lucas has a way of directing. Guess what, Star Wars is NOTHING LIKE Indiana Jones, though he uses the same methods and styles. Or let's talk about books. Alexander Dumas has a way of writing. The Three Muskateers is not at all inspired by The Count of Monte Cristo. Or we could look at Edgar Allen Poe, as The Raven is nothing at all like A Tell-Tale Heart. Just because a group, writer, author, whatever uses a particular style does not mean past works speak for or have any effect on current projects.
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I give up. You can't even understand that i am saying that they used Heavenly sword cinematics finishers in DmC. And that they used it in Enslaved too.
And you go on trying to talk your way out of DmC not isn't using ideas from Heavenlysword

And to Wallen and Choco:
Whatever you call it
Dramatic or Cinematic or Cutscene
It's all the same to me.

And DmC has cinematic/dramatic/cutscene like finisher that has also been used in Heavenly Sword and Enslaved.

That is my point.


Bethesda's Skyrim and Fallout:
Same ideas used in two different games:


Point: Shows you that Ninja theory used cinematic finishers because they used it in Heavenlysword first and foremost and later in Enslaved.
 
Well in Enslaved, once you defeated the last enemy in the area, the camera will zoom in and slow down, making the last hit more dramatic. There is no special buttons you need to press to make this happen, its just what the game does to show that the battle in this area is cleared. A lot of games have done this before. In HS you press two respecting buttons at the same time, once you have enough "power" stored and you can release a instant kill cinematic(depending on how much "power" you have stored, the more enemies you'll be able to take out and it's quite longer). In DmC, from what i've seen, you have a choice to see the death animation of any enemy. I'm thinking you'll have to hold the button down to initiate it. There is no qte or two buttons you'll need to press or do you ever lose control of Dante, just the camera changes.
 
wallenb said:
Well in Enslaved, once you defeated the last enemy in the area, the camera will zoom in and slow down, making the last hit more dramatic. There is no special buttons you need to press to make this happen, its just what the game does to show that the battle in this area is cleared. A lot of games have done this before. In HS you press two respecting buttons at the same time, once you have enough "power" stored and you can release a instant kill cinematic(depending on how much "power" you have stored, the more enemies you'll be able to take out and it's quite longer). In DmC, from what i've seen, you have a choice to see the death animation of any enemy. I'm thinking you'll have to hold the button down to initiate it. There is no qte or two buttons you'll need to press or do you ever lose control of Dante, just the camera changes.
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Alot of games have done this before - and HS and Enslaved are two of them. Why does it matter if many games have done it before?

Alot of people eat fruits. And if i have a son and he eats fruits alot it's not because of "alot people" but because my son has received advice from me that fruits are healthy. So i influenced his choice to eat fruits not "alot ppl".
Point: Just because alot of games have cinematics attacks does not mean they are the ones that influenced Ninja theory to add cinematic attacks in DmC. The games that they have made themself and are proud of is in their minds more than games that they haven't created. Do i have to say more?

Point being just because so many games have done cinematics attacks it does not mean Ninja theory have gone and used other games for how to approach a cinematic attack. They used what they did in Heavenly sword and Enslaved.

The details on how the cinematic attack appears does not matter. If you press two buttons or one, or if it happens automatically is besides the point. The point is that the same cinematic attacks is used in Heavenly sword, then Enslaved and now DmC.

I have proven that Ubisoft has made three games (Assassins Creed, Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell). And in the two first the ideas used are VERY similar. The three have in common is sneaking around killing people.
I have proved that Bethesda used ideas from Fallout and applied it to Skyrim.
RockStar game used their ideas from GTA games and applied it to Red Dead Redemption.

So why and why are you all being so persistent that the cinematic attacks DmC Dante performs is not something they implented ibecause they used them in HEavenly sword and Enslaved? And if Ninja theory looked at other game to see how cinematics attacks in DmC should be 1) Why should they not look at their own games? 2) There are TONS of games with cinematics attacks - which game did they then use? And would that game be then the source of the ideas of cinematics attacks that Ninja theory used or Heavenly sword?


They even used three forms just like three stances in Heavenly sword that decides what kind of weapon Dante will have.

It's common sense that people implent ideas into a game that they are already familiar with unless they want to experiment and try to gain new knowledge. For example if Ninja theory so freely implented cinematic attacks into DmC because they got the idea from other games - then does it mean they can produce same kind of gameplay, graphics and so on as other games easily? No.
They stick to what they are familiar with and i would do the same if nothing new is needed.

If Ninja theory uses ideas from other games then why don't they make Skyrim, FPS, Assassins creed, Metal Gear solid or GTA kind of games?
Answer: They don't have sufficient knowledge to pull of them.
That is why they will stick to making games that their current knowledge level allows. And that means implenting ideas such as cinematic attacks because they have the knowledge to pull off that.
Point: Developers stick to what they know - and Cinematics attacks is something Ninja theory clearly knows. Enslaved and Heavenly sword has it.
 
CoolDemon, it's not that you don't make some good points. Not at all. Because from what you say, you are probably right. But the thing is, you say "This is how it is." when in fact you do not know for sure if it REALLY is like that. It's a theory, and a really good one, but still just a theory. It makes sense what you say! It really does. But until Ninja Theory themselves say something like "We have taken inspiration from Heavenly Sword and Enslaved with the cinematic attacks." then none of us can be 100% sure if that is really where they have gotten inspiration from.

I'm not saying you are wrong in your theory, not at all. And I am not trying to belittle you, argue with you or anything, I say this with all due respect, so I hope you won't take offense from this as it was not the intention.

I agree with your points, but neither you or I can know for sure. We can only guess.
 
Asmodaius said:
CoolDemon, it's not that you don't make some good points. Not at all. Because from what you say, you are probably right. But the thing is, you say "This is how it is." when in fact you do not know for sure if it REALLY is like that. It's a theory, and a really good one, but still just a theory. It makes sense what you say! It really does. But until Ninja Theory themselves say something like "We have taken inspiration from Heavenly Sword and Enslaved with the cinematic attacks." then none of us can be 100% sure if that is really where they have gotten inspiration from.

I'm not saying you are wrong in your theory, not at all. And I am not trying to belittle you, argue with you or anything, I say this with all due respect, so I hope you won't take offense from this as it was not the intention.

I agree with your points, but neither you or I can know for sure. We can only guess.
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That i can understand. That the last 0,01% makes you doubt.

As a reminder of point of the thread: I am thinking we can gather very possible theories of what might be a source of ideas for DmC. And then we can ask Ninja theory if these theories are true or not.
 
So would the tv show Supernatural count as a inspiration for the reboot?
Cooldemon was talking about it in the theories thread.
 
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