DmC: Eastern to Western

[Dusk Stalker]

It really varies from circumstance to circumstance, how important something is the the overall plot and whatnot.

If something exists as a trope, as in a widely known and used/accepted concept, it's not something that can be claimed for one thing ripping off another. What matters is how broad the concept is, and how intricately important it is to the content as a whole.

Dante's Inferno ripped off God of War pretty hard, but it's an acceptable thing because it's a style of gameplay, a concept. Even when you really get into it, how much of Dante's Inferno is really from exclusively God of War? The QTEs to kill stunned enemies, and...maybe the Right Stick for dodging. Light and Heavy Attacks, dial-a-combo...those are old hat, design philosophies as old now to action games as jumping was to platformers.

Nick Simmons didn't rip-off Bleach, he plagiarized it. He took exact panels of artwork, modified them ever so slightly, and claimed they were his own it was an homage :/ Plagiarism is what is being cited when people start suing each other. When it's clear and cut points that something was clearly taken from someone else's material.

However, do you know how many filed plagiarism cases are found to be too flimsy to stand up in court? A fair amount actually. Even the most recent case of the writer of Link trying to sue Assassin's Creed (experiencing an ancestor's life with some hi-tech) ended in AC's favor, because the concepts, while slightly similar in most cases, were ultimately way too different in execution and result. A lot of plagiarism cases end up being some dude trying to draw similarities to their own ideas with something established and well-known that aren't really there.

I honestly couldn't tell you how "ripping off" something is okay in general, because I would need a specific example to determine it, and it would only qualify for that example. Most of the time, yes, someone did take an idea from someone else, but it ends up being way more about what they do with that idea that's more important, and the attitude you have about that idea.

Dmc took an idea from They Live, so what? They used it to pretty great effect, and it's not like Tameem is being a little sh!t about it, he said flat-out before the game released that he was inspired by They Live's use of subliminal messages and propaganda, and that's where he got the idea for Limbo's messages. DMC itself took a lot of ideas/themes from the Divine Comedy.

Forgot it has elements of DMC 3 like story in their, Astro Boy(Mundus boss fight same as bot )

and basically some Animesque qualities.

And basically has a Doctor Who esque like atmosphere character wise(Basically Dante, who isn't human or has any trace of Humanity in him ,who looks to Kat to fill the Human role, much like The Doctor has human companions. God I feel like im gonna be sick for just saying anything Doctor Who)

 

[Jak]

Something tells me most of the people who pull out the They Live comparison probably never seen They Live. John Carpenter's best is The Thing anyway. Also my profile pic shows another one I enjoy from him quite a bit lol.

They Live is fun but it is pretty silly and just stupid at times. It does have the best one liner in movie history though.

i've seen clips. is it a pretty good movie. roddy piper is my fave wwe legend btw

 

[VineBigBoss]

Acorn, about the gay cowboys thing, i think it's more about people thinking: "Why they pick this image? Why with the gay cowboys?", there's really no reason to pick that specific image considering how Dante is. It's not like i type "Cowboys" in Google and the very first image that we see is that specific image, i actually give it a try and one of the very first images showing cowboys standing in some pose was this:

They've picked this image to make this conference, or do you think that they select random images to make a serious business conference? This "coincidently" is not so true if you think about it. While we can't tell exactly why they picked this specific image, they ****ed the older fanbase with this choice for a lot of reasons including because some people really dislike gays; this do not change that they had some intention there and basically was to **** people off.

Tameem himself said that he wanted Donte to be gay, probably for people to don't be able to criticize him because of this "homosexual censorship" that we have nowadays all over the world represented by the little words Tameem used like "homophobe", you can't talk anything about someone who is gay because it's "prejudice", implying that all **** that gay people do has something to do with the fact of they liking the same sex.

Honestly, i don't give too much credit and attention about how Tameem or his team portrays old Dante to make his own creation look less worse, this not change how cool Dante is in the older games. Probably he was just butthurt because people disliked his creation and he had to nearly start from scratch all over again; the same thing occurs even in the game itself with the wig joke, NT just burrow themselves with this kind of attitude and bring even more unnecessary hate to this game and their studios as a whole.

 

[V's patron]

taneem suffers from "michael bay syndrome". he has a smart thought in his head but when he opens his mouth he makes himself look 1000 times stupider. i do get where he was going with his statement. but he couldn't intelligently state it

i think its just regards to this reboot because I read a interview he did with gamasutra and they were just talking about the industry and he was fine.

 

[Jak]

i think its just regards to this reboot because I read a interview he did with gamasutra and they were just talking about the industry and he was fine.

i think that and he couldn't take the heat. look, he should know by now that people who are fans of anything aren't so open to change. what he should have done when we all cried like bitches and downed the game for the stupidest of reasons, he shouldn't have lashed out at us. its not professional. if a toddler doesn't like our cooking and screams at you for it, you don't scream at them in retaliation, do you? i just think it was really stupid of taneem to do that.

 

[darkmanifest]

What I wish is that everyone stop describing DmC's design as "Westernized". The West is the home of comic books and games chock-full of elaborate costumes and cockamamie plots, and the Avengers movie making as much crazy bank as it did is proof that Westerners love seeing characters dressed in outlandish outfits fight ridiculous monsters to save the day. DmC is not "Westernized", it's just somewhat more casual and toned-down in its design than some other modern fantasy media (though thankfully not suffering from an overdose of "brown and dull").

And it only achieves that in some ways. Vergil is the definition of flashy design, and he certainly doesn't blend outside of maybe a quirky fashion district. He's very much the descendent of classic Vergil's style, down to the hair, unlike practical Dante. So I wonder where DmC Vergil would fit into NT's comparisons up there.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well the focus was on Dante specifically (not all of DmC), and being a down-to-earth, everyman-type hero that isn't accentuated by his flashy style of dress. The punk movement and its rebellion was a large part of the inspiration for Dante's tone.

Vergil's tone is different - one of high society, of the upper class, so you'd have to make different parallels and comparisons If parallels are drawn between the classics, classic Dante was all about the raucous party, while Vergil would be associated with a ball, or...cotillion? DmC Vergil's design, while asymmetrical, reminds me very much of the type of people you see in the extremely rich neighborhoods of big cities, wearing designer clothes and being escorted to limos and whatnot. Very in line with Vergil's upbringing in DmC

 

[OppressedWriter]

[quote="VineBigBoss, post: 490383, member: 25446".

Tameem himself said that he wanted Donte to be gay.

[/quote]
This was his full quote, you can just quote him.

"Dante's not gay, but I wish he was" says Ninja Theory creative director Tameem Antoniades. "That would teach all those

homophobes out there."

Yes, he's talking about the trend that I notice often, where peole tend to call things they don't like gay. And it's a bad habit, a lot of
people have when they see something that isn't cool, oh the new dante looks gay. That's what he was referring to. I don't have to
to read much further than that.

Also, if anything this quote proves that Ninja Theory isn't antigay or making fun of gay people in their presentation.

 

[Martius]

Also, if anything this quote proves that Ninja Theory isn't antigay or making fun of gay people in their presentation.

They are as antigay as EA.

 

[aoshi]

You people are really sensitive just because someone calling a game character gay. It's a bit sad actually...

First of all, Prove on how dante is gay. If you can't, then you can't call him gay. And that's the bottom line.

Jus calling people sad when they are actually making logical statements on why dante cannot be called gay is pathetic beyond comprehension. Your statements are self-contradictory. You say dante is jus a game character which is implicit that he cannot have sex, yet you want to call him gay. You're jus wasting everyone's time.

For someone who does not give a flying f*ck about DMC,

All I ever get out of DMC as a series is a crap story, dull characters that pale in comparison to Dante, unmemorable locations, and a Dante that's either boring, or an annoying douchebag, or in DmC's case both.

 

[OppressedWriter]

They are as antigay as EA.

So, you mean not at all. Thanks for agreeing.

 

[Martius]

So, you mean not at all. Thanks for agreeing.

It looks you did not get a point. If NT would make new Dante gay they would do same things as EA. When people would point how badly written that is they would just say "you dont like it because you hate gays, we are defending gays right with having gay character in game!"

 

[OppressedWriter]

It looks you did not get a point. If NT would make new Dante gay they would do same things as EA. When people would point how badly written that is they would just say "you dont like it because you hate gays, we are defending gays right with having gay character in game!"

Nah, I did. Thanks for agreeing. Glad we can agree Ninja Theory doesn't dislike gay people.

 

[Martius]

Nah, I did. Thanks for agreeing. Glad we can agree Ninja Theory doesn't dislike gay people.

Of course, they are same as Bioware. Admirable.

 

[EllDawn]

Your definition of rip off is incorrect. Rip off is: if you take a idea from a game and add it to your own game.

THAT IS a rip off:

When someone takes ALOT OF ideas from a source, then people will say "Omg look at that rip off" meaning "That is obviously stolen from insert_Source"


ripping off ideas isnt a good thing. It says alot about you as a creator.
Rip offs can happen by pure coincedence i.e you make a game that is VERY similar to established game and you havent played that established game at all or know of it

It can happen subconciously - your subconcious tells you "Hey use this idea from Dragon ball z - hey use this idea, hey use this idea". Because you may perceive something from DBZ as cool and thus your subconcious kicks in and tells you.


Rip offs can happen intentionally (person aware of it): (Nick simmons, Bleach rip off).


If ripping off isnt a bad thing, then why do people mind it and sue eachother when someone rips off many ideas from their work?
Oh thats right...because ripping off isnt a good thing.


Its just that people tolerate when rip offs are small in scale or is differently implemented. Inuyasha + DMC 3

They Live and DmC
V and DmC


You cant make a rip off invalid by saying "Well They Live isnt only one who used hidden messages", a rip off will remain a rip off, the distinction being that the rip off is ripped from They Live and not from other sources independt of how unoriginal They Live may be when compared to other work with similar themes.

WhenAge of Guns game ripped a idea from DmC trailer, many people including Ninja theory made a remark about it.

So how is ripping off a idea from a work a good thing under circumstances that your aware of it? And Tameem WAS aware of taking the idea of hidden message from They Live.

+ Even the "V" in Vergil's mobil and Vergil's role in DmC is taken from V for Vendetta.

You're making it sound like they plagiarized They Live, which they didn't. If you want to say that DmC ripped off They Live, then They Live ripped off something else. There are a lot of shows and movies that have something about subliminal messages. It goes with the whole conspiracy theme. And actual conspiracy theories. The mere usage of a single idea from one source isn't going to get a person sued. If it did, we wouldn't have so many plots with the same themes and elements.

Plagiarism is illegal, but that's not what was done here. They used common themes from multiple sources to create something else.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

You're making it sound like they plagiarized They Live, which they didn't. If you want to say that DmC ripped off They Live, then They Live ripped off something else. There are a lot of shows and movies that have something about subliminal messages. It goes with the whole conspiracy theme. And actual conspiracy theories. The mere usage of a single idea from one source isn't going to get a person sued. If it did, we wouldn't have so many plots with the same themes and elements.

Plagiarism is illegal, but that's not what was done here. They used common themes from multiple sources to create something else.

Justify a rip off by pointing to the source not being original.

Well isn't that just typical.

It's like this:
I say DmC has ripped off from They Live right?
You say "Well They Live has ripped off from something too"
And i think your point is "Because They Live ripped off from something too, then it nullifies DmC ripping off from They Live".

And my point is---> no it doesnt.


The only thing it does is just highlight if and what They Live ripped off.
Here is a analogy:

A man is told to make a choice to kill one of three people. If he doesn't he will not get money that he needs or wants. The people telling the man says "You see that guy over there? He is a murderer, u shud kill him".
So is right for the man to kill the murderer to get money?
And no, he wants the money just for sake of money, no bigger reason.

And my point: you cant say ripping off a something that is a rip off is right. People will perceive it as tolerable and ok, but in generally its not right.
And the thing ripping off a rip off may not even know that the source its ripping off from is a rip off.

e.g game A is ripping off game B independt of B having ripped off or being a rip off

And i dont think people who rip off from other peoples work think of ethics or morals.

 

[Chancey289]

Justify a rip off by pointing to the source not being original.

Well isn't that just typical.

It's like this:
I say DmC has ripped off from They Live right?
You say "Well They Live has ripped off from something too"
And i think your point is "Because They Live ripped off from something too, then it nullifies DmC ripping off from They Live".

And my point is---> no it doesnt.


The only thing it does is just highlight if and what They Live ripped off.
Here is a analogy:

A man is told to make a choice to kill one of three people. If he doesn't he will not get money that he needs or wants. The people telling the man says "You see that guy over there? He is a murderer, u shud kill him".
So is right for the man to kill the murderer to get money?
And no, he wants the money just for sake of money, no bigger reason.

And my point: you cant say ripping off a something that is a rip off is right. People will perceive it as tolerable and ok, but in generally its not right.
And the thing ripping off a rip off may not even know that the source its ripping off from is a rip off.

e.g game A is ripping off game B independt of B having ripped off or being a rip off

And i dont think people who rip off from other peoples work think of ethics or morals.

Have you seen They Live?

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Have you seen They Live?

No, whats that? I just heard from someone DmC ripped off from They live. So i just repeated what that someone said.

 

[Chancey289]

No, whats that? I just heard from someone DmC ripped off from They live. So i just repeated what that someone said.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]