DmC: Devil May Cry vs. Devil May Cry... (keep it civil, or else).

[Loopy]

thats not what g. gordon godfrey told me...

He says a lot of things. He was high on space cola and martian sugar when he talked to you.:troll:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

You may have loved DmC's gameplay, and that's fine. However, compared to last games, you can hardly make a case that it matches them in that department.

I'd say that's very much an opinion, and not at all factually accurate. Many might feel that way, but it doesn't make it so.

And it's not just about difficulty, that's a side effect previous games had due to how well done the combat system was. There was actually effort and thought put into the combat system of past games. Otherwise, the majority of fans and myself wouldn't be complaining so hard about this game.

It sounds like you're saying that there was no effort in DmC's combat system. That paints an iffy picture for me being able to take the things you say at face value :/

It's not just about the complete change of what we once knew and loved, it's the fact that the gameplay all of us loved from past games was not found at all in this game. That's the reason DMC1, 3, and 4 sold well, the reason the HD remakes sold well, and the reason that DmC didn't sell well. The gameplay wasn't up to par with past games for the majority of fans. As I've said before, had they taken the gameplay from DMC3/4 and replaced it with the gameplay of DmC, we'd still hate everything else, but would be able to better accept it due to how well done the combat system would be.

And yet the game plays strikingly similar to a Devil May Cry with all the abilities and custom combo possibilities at one's disposal, despite the slightly different control scheme and weapon-swapping mechanic. The fact that it wasn't a carbon copy of the classics is another matter that is entirely selfish, and just not really worth debating anymore. Nearly all of the things you could do in the best DMCs (sans specific weapon abilities) are doable in DmC, so...what does it matter that it handles slightly easier than it used to...?

That didn't happen here, which is why the game didn't do nearly as well as past games.

It didn't do nearly as well because half of the customer base of a niche franchise that already had a small customer base hated it outright, refusing to purchase it simply because it was different. Then there's all the horrid misinformation that people spread around, making the game sound worse than it was.

Really, a lot of why DmC "sold poorly" (even though it sold a solid 1 million+, which is great for any product) was not due to some sub-par gameplay, but a lot of preconceived notions and negative hearsay spread around to make sure it failed, coupled with the fact that DMC itself is already not a series that sells hugely.

DmC is the lowest-selling entry in a franchise that already sells low as a whole :/

 

[Lionheart]

I think it's because the percentage of fans who love DMC for (and pride themselves on) the higher difficulty may not be part of the overall majority.

...So you make the higher difficulties very easy as well? This doesn't make any sense to me. Why create higher difficulties if you're not trying to appeal to that percentage of fans who love DMC for its higher difficulties and pride themselves on doing great combos? I understand they were aiming for a more casual player base, but that doesn't necessarily mean the higher difficulties should be made easier, too. Casual gamers can play the game on the lower difficulties, right? That's the whole point of difficulty settings.

 

[Bazilican]

Maybe everyone's just to blind to see how similar DmC and DMC really are. Honestly I really don't see any difference besides environment being beyond the original's, and Dante with black hair.

It's the same thing with a different coding.

 

[GodhandZawarudo]

No one prefers DMC3's combat more than I. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to constantly complain about it. I honestly don't think it would solve anything.

A better solution would be to ask a different company that makes action games make one that's just as good as DMC3.

Or... maybe even try to work for one. Or start one of your own that uses a 2D engine.

MvC3 already showed us DMC3 gameplay from a 2D perspective, all that needs to be done now is just more-or-less emulate that.

To recap: We should ask someone to copy MvC3, and stop complaining about DmC. It's done, and NT most likely isn't going to make any more.

Even if they did, I don't think they would make the same mistakes. They already fixed a lot of them with Vergil's Downfall.

You may think complaining may help, but I honestly think it's rather counterproductive. No offense, it's just how I feel.

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Edit:


The game still made a profit and it still went platinum, despite all the bad press and fans telling everyone not to buy it. I'd say that's worth something, at least.

What Capcom should do in order to reclaim lost fans is to first drop NT from having any further involvement with the DMC series, and also forget about trying to reboot it. Going by sales figures, nothing supports them rebooting the series. It was doing just fine for the majority. Secondly, they should make it a point to find a company that understands how to make a great combat system that's similar to DMC3/4-which is where the best gameplay can be found for most fans. And what would more than make up for this entire mess is if Capcom can convince Platinum games to make DMC5.

That would single-handily appease the vast majority of fans, and have us give them all the money they want.


And if you consider Capcom rebooting the series just to have it do the worst out of all the series, including DMC2-which actually sold quite well- as smart business for the franchise, then we'll just simply have to agree to disagree.

 

[Demi-fiend]

It's the same thing with a different coding.

 

[Lionheart]

Maybe everyone's just to blind to see how similar DmC and DMC really are. Honestly I really don't see any difference besides environment being beyond the original's, and Dante with black hair.

It's the same thing with a different coding.

*coating

 

[GodhandZawarudo]

Maybe everyone's just to blind to see how similar DmC and DMC really are. Honestly I really don't see any difference besides environment being beyond the original's, and Dante with black hair.

It's the same thing with a different coding.

If that were the case, more fans wouldn't be so turned off to this game. The game would have sold much better than it did.

Furthermore, there wouldn't be so much controversy, and this entire thread wouldn't even exist. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this argument.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Being different shouldn't come at the expense of alienating the majority of loyal fans for your own desires. To begin with, it's entirely about what the fans want. Going by sales, nothing indicated that Capcom even needed to reboot the series. Majority of fans didn't care about a "good story," we cared about great gameplay. That's the reason past games sold so well, including the HD remakes.

Why even change something to begin with when it doesn't even need changing? Whatever they hoped to accomplished entirely failed, and they instead succeeded in turning off the majority in order to appease a new audience, who likely didn't have as much investment in the series to begin with.

So I mean, I really hope it was worth it for Capcom.

Why change something to begin with? To try something different. To attempt something new. They wanted to try some new things with an existing franchise, and they wanted to do so without affecting the franchise, so they created a completely new and different universe still tied to that DMC DNA that they could play with.

If people were going to throw their stupid b!tch fits even if they applied DmC's gameplay to the normal universe, then why bother affecting that universe at all? Why not leave it as is, and see what new things they can try.

It's actually pretty f#cking insane to me that people b!tched so much about DmC existing, when the alternatives were things that would have actively ruined/changed/affected the classic franchise. I mean, for f#ck's sake, they created a brand new universe they could do whatever with, essentially completely protecting the classic series. Everyone who doesn't like DmC should be grateful to Capcom for not even applying anything to classic series!

And no, it did not "entirely fail." Not at all. They set out to make different DMC that emphasized story presentation and had a more accessible gameplay style - they totally succeeded in that.

 

[Demi-fiend]

They're still greedy as **** though. :troll:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Something passive-aggressive...?

What dude? Use your words. Or don't, I thought you were leaving.

 

[Bazilican]

*coating

Colors, coating, coding meh, either way.

If that were the case, more fans wouldn't be so turned off to this game. The game would have sold much better than it did.

yeah, because black hair makes a big difference doesn't it? Honestly I really think they're the same game, bu tpeople just can't seem to grasp it all because Tam Tam hurt their pathetic feelings and and they made Donte look like some street punk full of edgy angst. Like that's any different from the wanna be anime campy angst that he's been sh*ting out these past ten years.

Furthermore, there wouldn't be so much controversy, and this entire thread wouldn't even exist. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this argument.

Then I agree to disagree that...this fanbase is just being blinded by the look of a character being different -_-

 

[Demi-fiend]

What dude? Use your words. Or don't, I thought you were leaving.

I was joking, man. I honestly don't care what Capcom's motives were.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I was joking, man. I honestly don't care what Capcom's motives were.

No, not you, sorry >.< I had quoted Lionheart, but he didn't actually say anything, just...quoted me.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Whoops. :lol:

Edit: And yes, that is rather questionable.

 

[Shin Muramasa]

What Capcom should do in order to reclaim lost fans is to first drop NT from having any further involvement with the DMC series, and also forget about trying to reboot it. Going by sales figures, nothing supports them rebooting the series. It was doing just fine for the majority. Secondly, they should make it a point to find a company that understands how to make a great combat system that's similar to DMC3/4-which is where the best gameplay can be found for most fans. And what would more than make up for this entire mess is if Capcom can convince Platinum games to make DMC5.

That would single-handily appease the vast majority of fans, and have us give them all the money they want.


And if you consider Capcom rebooting the series just to have it do the worst out of all the series, including DMC2-which actually sold quite well- as smart business for the franchise, then we'll just simply have to agree to disagree.

Or they (Capcom) could do something like a mega-ultra-smoothie-with-cherries-on-top collaboration with Ninja Theory, Platinum Games, Mercury Steam, and someone for story - wanted to say Kojima Productions, but there's already one Konami developer. So, Capcom and Platinum Games handles the combat; current and former Devil May Cry combat developers combined. Ninja Theory handles the art direction - you gotta hand it to them, they have awesome art direction, especially with the environments. Mercury Steam can handle the actual graphics, engine, performance, and maybe story - have you seen how beautiful and fluid Castlevania: Lord of Shadows is? Heck, they could be there for input on combat too. As for story, well, we need a developer who can make a coherent, simple, deep, and intense plot. There you go: the best Devil May Cry - no, the best hack n' slash game ever to grace our mortal souls. It'll sell millions I tell you! MILLIONS!

And it would bankrupt Capcom considering the scale of the project and amount of developers involved. If it fails and it won't because it'll be the best.

 

[Demi-fiend]

snip

Smoothies for everyone!

Except Ninja Theory!

 

[GodhandZawarudo]

I'd say that's very much an opinion, and not at all factually accurate. Many might feel that way, but it doesn't make it so.



It sounds like you're saying that there was no effort in DmC's combat system. That paints an iffy picture for me being able to take the things you say at face value :/



And yet the game plays strikingly similar to a Devil May Cry with all the abilities and custom combo possibilities at one's disposal, despite the slightly different control scheme and weapon-swapping mechanic. The fact that it wasn't a carbon copy of the classics is another matter that is entirely selfish, and just not really worth debating anymore. Nearly all of the things you could do in the best DMCs (sans specific weapon abilities) are doable in DmC, so...what does it matter that it handles slightly easier than it used to...?




It didn't do nearly as well because half of the customer base of a niche franchise that already had a small customer base hated it outright, refusing to purchase it simply because it was different. Then there's all the horrid misinformation that people spread around, making the game sound worse than it was.

Really, a lot of why DmC "sold poorly" (even though it sold a solid 1 million+, which is great for any product) was not due to some sub-par gameplay, but a lot of preconceived notions and negative hearsay spread around to make sure it failed, coupled with the fact that DMC itself is already not a series that sells hugely.

DmC is the lowest-selling entry in a franchise that already sells low as a whole :/

Opinions matter in this case though, as in the end its about what the majority wants to pay money for. For a huge company like Capcom, money should be the bottom line. Well, nothing speaks more loudly to them than sales figures. And going by sales, the vast majority of DMC fans think that DMC1,3, and 4 had way better combat than DmC. The majority of us don't believe the gameplay of DmC is anything like past games, in the least bit. We think it's a huge step backwards, and we refused to support this game. We also made it a point to buy the HD remakes just to emphasize how we felt on the matter.

There's absolutely no reason that Capcom even needed to reboot the series, the majority of fans were completely fine with the game as it was. The point to reboot should be to revive a stale series and attract a new audience, along with reclaiming lost fans. Instead, they managed to drive off the loyal base in pursuit of some new audience that likely doesn't pay much attention to the series to begin with.

So again, going by sales, they completely failed with their reboot, to the highest level possible.

 

[Demi-fiend]

You like to use the word "fail" a lot, don't you?

 

[Lionheart]

If that were the case, more fans wouldn't be so turned off to this game. The game would have sold much better than it did.

Furthermore, there wouldn't be so much controversy, and this entire thread wouldn't even exist. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this argument.

I have to agree with you, because I found DmC not a lot like the other DMCs. Sure, it follows the same principles of ''rebellious guy battles twin/defeats Mundus'', but that's pretty much the biggest similarity. The rest was quite different. From the moment I played the demo, I found it hard to believe it was a Devil May Cry game. If they want to call Dante, Vergil and Mundus' personalities, the characters, the graphics style, the type of soundtrack, the script, and even the gameplay 'coating' (or even 'coding') that's their business. I don't think they should expect much support, though. I'd rather call it filling instead of coating. Sure, you've got Dante and decent gameplay (though counterintuitive at times), but that doesn't make it a Devil May Cry game. I have no problems with them rebooting the series, but they could've done it without changing the entire series' personality. I don't believe there was any indication that people were sick of the old gothic style or Dante's old personality. Many people here think fondly about the DMC Dantes, even the Dantes from DMC3 and DMC4. DMC is what it is, and I don't think changing it for the sake of a few more dollars is a humane thing to do. If DMC wasn't getting them enough money to survive, then they should've let it die, just like I wouldn't let my brother suffer on a breathing machine if he were comatose and had no chance of ever being more than a vegetable.