DmC: Devil May Cry vs. Devil May Cry... (keep it civil, or else).

[Jak]

No offense intended, and I only speak for myself, but when I hear people saying DmC has an incredibly original story I just go: ''Nooo. Nohohooo. No.''

The idea of companies or the 'upper class' dominating the populace is by no means an original idea. Heck, go to Facebook and you'll probably find loads of pages made by people who feel that way. The government is evil, Obama is a puppet, democracy is a complete lie, I've heard it all, said by people without actual experience in these fields, some of them possibly preferring anarchy. It's like people complaining about the fact that most products contain artificial flavoring. It's not a way to keep us drugged, the Illuminati did not suddenly reappear after dying out in 1785, and it's ridiculous to think that there's secret clubs who made their way into government and now enslave us all. How on earth would they stay secret, if people like us can be elected into government? Not long ago, Stephen Colbert's sister ran in an electoral race. Besides, their intent would be to stay secret, not to go ''here we are!'' Like you said, if They Live was like this, then how is this original?

Sorry if all this seems obvious or off the point, but I felt the need to say this. I feel that a plot of ''hey, this guy wants to rule the world'' or something, like that of DMC4, deserves just as much respect, corny though it may be. I think both these types of plots are kind of dull, really; it's the execution of it that matters. I really don't think originality equals quality, just like that South Park book story of ''the guy who peed turds out of his schlong'' is original, but not good. Sorry about that

its not an original idea. i don't say it is. and the people who do are...sorta wrong. but i think why its so engaging is because its an idea that isn't used very often, where as DMC1 and 3 is the "you dick ****, you murdered my mother. REVENGE" or the "you are my evil twin and i must stop you" idea that is used all the damn time. so a reason why i like the story is because it uses something that is not really used in the entertainment business a lot

 

[EnJ]

the "you are my evil twin and i must stop you" idea that is used all the damn time.

Really? Few examples? (without anime pls, i didn't watch it)

 

[Lionheart]

its not an original idea. i don't say it is. and the people who do are...sorta wrong. but i think why its so engaging is because its an idea that isn't used very often, where as DMC1 and 3 is the "you **** ****, you murdered my mother. REVENGE" or the "you are my evil twin and i must stop you" idea that is used all the damn time. so a reason why i like the story is because it uses something that is not really used in the entertainment business a lot

I'm not sure I've seen the 'evil twin' idea much, though. Maybe in manga, but I haven't read any manga, so I wouldn't know. I do know that the idea of an evil counterpart is quite pervasive, as in Star Trek, with Mirror Universe Spock and regular Spock. I can find this: ''A remarkable example of evil twin is shown in the short story "William Wilson', by Edgar Allan Poe. This is the story of two non-biological twins.''

And, of course, the goatee.

But what we're talking about is actually the plot of DmC, too. Vergil's still there, and he's a major boss battle in the game like Vergil was in DMC3, so these games are no different from each other, in my eyes. I suppose the idea behind DmC (evil upper class and brainwashing) isn't used in games that often, but that doesn't make it superior to other plots, I think. Besides, DMC3's focus was not to defeat Vergil, it was to defeat Arkham.

 

[Jak]

Really? Few examples? (without anime pls, i didn't watch it)

mainly comic books and yes. anime. sorry if u don't watch it but there is a lot of anime that does this. sometimes not literally twins but were brothers in spirit or whatever. but the whole idea is just so cliche. its even used in SOAP OPERA.
*young and the restless
*the flash
*007
*hulk
*justice league
*spiderman
*supernatural (eh...sorta)
*wwe uses this a lot
*cain and abel

 

[EnJ]

mainly comic books and yes. anime. sorry if u don't watch it but there is a lot of anime that does this. sometimes not literally twins but were brothers in spirit or whatever. but the whole idea is just so cliche. its even used in SOAP OPERA.
*young and the restless
*the flash
*007
*hulk
*justice league
*spiderman
*supernatural (eh...sorta)
*wwe uses this a lot
*cain and abel

Well, Brothers-war tematic is equal cliche to humanity-under control of evil guys tematic.

 

[Jak]

Well, Brothers-war tematic is equal cliche to humanity-under control of evil guys tematic.

it maybe cliche but its not an OVERUSED cliche

 

[EnJ]

No it is. Like a half of your examples has that.

 

[Lionheart]

I still don't understand why DmC's plot is 'better' than those of the DMCs, or specifically DMC3. I suppose the theme of DmC (evil upper class and brainwashing) hasn't yet been used that often, but that doesn't make it superior to other plots, however corny or cliché they may be. It does not stand opposite to the cliché 'brothers/counterparts fighting each other' (Vergil vs Dante), because Vergil is also in DmC. Originality does not equal quality. Besides, Vergil is not the focal point of DMC3, Arkham is.

 

[Jak]

No it is. Like a half of your examples has that.

not really...

 

[Loopy]

"you are my evil twin and i must stop you" idea that is used all the damn time. so a reason why i like the story is because it uses something that is not really used in the entertainment business a lot

What is more common than twins fighting is brothers fighting. I think if you want a recent example of something similar to Vergil and Dante, then look at Loki and Thor in the Avengers and Thor movies.

Loki is a thinker, his main power is his mind. Despite his intelligence he lives in Thor's shadow. Loki, like Vergil, finds out the truth about his past and then begins to form the idea in his mind of gaining power and wanting to control. In Avengers, he goes to earth, convinced that humanity wants to be ruled by him, rather like Vergil being convinced that only he is worthy to rule humans.

Then there's Thor. He's a guy who likes a good time, he's brash and thinks before he uses his strength. Dante much? Thor falls for a human and it begins to change him, open him to the possibility that there are people who need his help, like Kat does with Dante.

Even though Thor and Loki are so different, they have a respect for each other, and when Loki does start to change, Thor wants to help him. But when he finds out Loki is beyond help, Thor declares himself the protector of Earth, just like Dante does with Vergil.

So the story of Dante and Vergil, of brothers fighting, and of brothers being opposite in terms of personality and strengths is nothing new.

 

[EnJ]

not really...

Supernatural
007
all that comics had same ideas in villains motives. Yeah it's not the same, but Cain and Abel? Really?

Also, there a lot of movies like
V for Vendetta or Equilibrium
Even Assassin Creed idea with tampliers a bit similar.

 

[Lionheart]

Like I said, originality does not equal quality. If it did, nothing would be of good quality, since almost everything's been inspired by something else nowadays. Nothing would be of good quality. Not DmC, not DMC, nothing.

 

[Jak]

What is more common than twins fighting is brothers fighting. I think if you want a recent example of something similar to Vergil and Dante, then look at Loki and Thor in the Avengers and Thor movies.

Loki is a thinker, his main power is his mind. Despite his intelligence he lives in Thor's shadow. Loki, like Vergil, finds out the truth about his past and then begins to form the idea in his mind of gaining power and wanting to control. In Avengers, he goes to earth, convinced that humanity wants to be ruled by him, rather like Vergil being convinced that only he is worthy to rule humans.

Then there's Thor. He's a guy who likes a good time, he's brash and thinks before he uses his strength. Dante much? Thor falls for a human and it begins to change him, open him to the possibility that there are people who need his help, like Kat does with Dante.

Even though Thor and Loki are so different, they have a respect for each other, and when Loki does start to change, Thor wants to help him. But when he finds out Loki is beyond help, Thor declares himself the protector of Earth, just like Dante does with Vergil.

So the story of Dante and Vergil, of brothers fighting, and of brothers being opposite in terms of personality and strengths is nothing new.

i was referring to the "demons having control over humans in secret" type thing. i was saying that THAT wasn't used as much as the sibling rivalry plot. so in a way you just added to my argument...THANKS

 

[EnJ]

What is more common than twins fighting is brothers fighting. I think if you want a recent example of something similar to Vergil and Dante, then look at Loki and Thor in the Avengers and Thor movies.

Loki is a thinker, his main power is his mind. Despite his intelligence he lives in Thor's shadow. Loki, like Vergil, finds out the truth about his past and then begins to form the idea in his mind of gaining power and wanting to control. In Avengers, he goes to earth, convinced that humanity wants to be ruled by him, rather like Vergil being convinced that only he is worthy to rule humans.

Then there's Thor. He's a guy who likes a good time, he's brash and thinks before he uses his strength. Dante much? Thor falls for a human and it begins to change him, open him to the possibility that there are people who need his help, like Kat does with Dante.

Even though Thor and Loki are so different, they have a respect for each other, and when Loki does start to change, Thor wants to help him. But when he finds out Loki is beyond help, Thor declares himself the protector of Earth, just like Dante does with Vergil.

So the story of Dante and Vergil, of brothers fighting, and of brothers being opposite in terms of personality and strengths is nothing new.

And this is a really good example (not Cain and Abel ).
And also i didn't say that DMC3 story are very unique, i'am just saying it not so much overused as jak says.

 

[I Make The Devils Cry]

No offense intended, and I only speak for myself, but when I hear people saying DmC has an incredibly original story I just go: ''Nooo. Nohohooo. No.''

The idea of companies or the 'upper class' dominating the populace is by no means an original idea. Heck, go to Facebook and you'll probably find loads of pages made by people who feel that way. The government is evil, Obama is a puppet, democracy is a complete lie, I've heard it all, said by people without actual experience in these fields, some of them possibly preferring anarchy. It's like people complaining about the fact that most products contain artificial flavoring. It's not a way to keep us drugged, the Illuminati did not suddenly reappear after dying out in 1785, and it's ridiculous to think that there's secret clubs who made their way into government and now enslave us all. How on earth would they stay secret, if people like us can be elected into government? Not long ago, Stephen Colbert's sister ran in an electoral race. Besides, their intent would be to stay secret, not to go ''here we are!'' Like you said, if They Live was like this, then how is this original?

Sorry if all this seems obvious or off the point, but I felt the need to say this. I feel that a plot of ''hey, this guy wants to rule the world'' or something, like that of DMC4, deserves just as much respect, corny though it may be. I think both these types of plots are kind of dull, really; it's the execution of it that matters. I really don't think originality equals quality, just like that South Park book story of ''the guy who peed turds out of his schlong'' is original, but not good. Sorry about that

DmC: Devil May Cry is essentially They Live in a different, possibly executed better, version and medium by all means. I enjoy the plot and a number of things in the game, however I can definitely say it is unoriginal by all means. When compared to the original, it's sort of a mix up though as to which is more original and better however. Then again, it all comes down to opinion really; and general opinion, when not looking at any of the games through a rose-tinted perspective, often says that neither are really executed well overall.

 

[Loopy]

i was referring to the "demons having control over humans in secret" type thing. i was saying that THAT wasn't used as much as the sibling rivalry plot. so in a way you just added to my argument...THANKS

Oh, just thought of something else too. What about Young Justice? The second season of that had the Earth being taken over by aliens who pretended to be friendly, calling themselves The Reach. In reality they were using TV and poisoned drink to manipulate humans ready for a full invasion and control.

 

[GodhandZawarudo]

Feel I need to jump in here again. Imo, even debating the DMC stories is a silly notion to begin with. Core DMC fans never once played any of the DMC games for the story, we always played for the awesome, original, crazy gameplay. The story was nothing but a means for us to get a feel for the world we were about to kick ass in.

Dante is a demon hunter who happens to be half-demon. Simple and to the point, because the entire focus should be on making a fun game that offers hours upon hours of intense re-playability. Ditch any attempt at making a "good" story, because none of the stories for DMC were actually meant to be good. It was always about the fast paced, insane gameplay and nothing else. Frankly that was part of the problem for DMC4. They tried to make a "serious" story and ended up with half of a game. Fortunately they remembered the gameplay aspect and thus saved DMC4 from failure.

This is yet another reason that giving DMC to NT made no sense. NT hasn't been known to make games with "amazing" gameplay. At least not on the caliber of what a DMC game should be. And even the stories for their games had been done by different people. So truly, I just don't understand Capcom's thought process on having NT make the next DMC game.

I think the best thing for Capcom to do would be to wait for Bayonetta series to finish, and pay the hell out of Platinum games to continue with the DMC series. Because frankly, that's the only way the DMC will regain its former glory.

 

[Lionheart]

This is yet another reason that giving DMC to NT made no sense. NT hasn't been known to make games with "amazing" gameplay. At least not on the caliber of what a DMC game should be. And even the stories for their games had been done by different people. So truly, I just don't understand Capcom's thought process on having NT make the next DMC game.

Ninja Theory handled the story and characters, while Capcom handled the gameplay. That's what I heard, at least. I guess Capcom thought NT could create a much better plot for DmC than they could. I can't say they were correct; it's just another Devil May Cry-like story to me. Not too deep, and really meant to supplement the gameplay, like you said. It's just another form of 'meh' to me.

I think the best thing for Capcom to do would be to wait for Bayonetta series to finish, and pay the hell out of Platinum games to continue with the DMC series. Because frankly, that's the only way the DMC will regain its former glory.

I agree. I think Platinum Games know how to bring back the old vibe, and thus, the original Devil May Cry identity (not surprising, since they basically created DMC1). Sadly, NT/Capcom seems to think that Devil May Cry is nothing more than ''fluent gameplay and a rebellious protagonist'' - you can read that in the interview this forum had with Ninja Theory: http://devilmaycry.org/687/score-ssstylish-exclusive-interview-ninja-theory.html

DMC has always been much more to me - it's the sum of all its parts, not just a few parts. It's the graphics style, it's the type of characters, it's the music, it's the combos. It's the message the games try to convey. All of this and more.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

*Walks in thread*

*Leaves*

 

[Loopy]

Ninja Theory handled the story and characters, while Capcom handled the gameplay. That's what I heard, at least.

That is correct. There are a few articles on the net confirming this. NT had majority control over the story, characters and level design, while Capcom employees frequently went to NT and supervised the combat creation and mechanics.