TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
What is even the practicality for this, anyway? Not to sound like a wad, but...seriously...what's the point of some of these techniques?
DmC: Devil may cry-Combat
- Thread starter cheesydonutman
- Start date
What is even the practicality for this, anyway? Not to sound like a wad, but...seriously...what's the point of some of these techniques?
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
I would of thought that would be obvious dude , they are fun and badass and in the midst of battle look spectacular and are a way to dominate enemes and bosses every game has Ott moves but that doesn't make them pointless. I just love to JC I am an addict sorry lol 
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TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
To be completely honest, I legitimately do not like all that twitchy stuff. It looks the furthest from "badass" because it's legitimately just a lack of animations. It's jerky movements with no fluidity, which is entirely against what I love about Devil May Cry - the gorgeous moves and fluidity of it all.
It's not at all spectacular to me :/
That's why I love players like Cedrus, who use set-ups instead of just spamming cancels. Set-ups work well with the timing style of DMC more than watching Dante, Vergil, or Nero go through half an animation all the time. Sure it dominates the enemies, but it certainly doesn't look at all cool to me.
It's not at all spectacular to me :/
That's why I love players like Cedrus, who use set-ups instead of just spamming cancels. Set-ups work well with the timing style of DMC more than watching Dante, Vergil, or Nero go through half an animation all the time. Sure it dominates the enemies, but it certainly doesn't look at all cool to me.
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
Its all down to opinion dude not everybody has to like it but to be fair without cancels and buffers and enemy step in DMC or DmC they would be plain in comparison.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
I dunno...given the amount of stuff that we can do completely without Enemy Step, I'd say Devil May Cry does just fine without it >.> Jump Canceling shouldn't be a crutch...
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
It isn't a crutch it sent needed to eat levels or bosses as I said it is for fun not out of desperation and its a skill to master too, I like a challenge and I like to do insane combos. Fighting on the ground with the same regular combos gets tedious and boring but hey each to there own. Let's get back on topic i love DmC's combat but more so vergils
The Final Offer
Well-known Member
I've been saying this for YEARS and finally, I got what I wanted in DmC.
That was the only thing that needed to be fixed in the combat to me.
OppressedWriter
SamD
I actually agree with elf o shea, Jump cancel is a very important element of what makes DMC's and DmC's combnat so open to experimentation, without the ability to cancel things it wouldn't be nearly as fun to do the various combos I"ve done. I may not be cancelling over and over, but the very act of cancelling is something I most definitely use to do the crazy combos and set ups, so I think that is absolutely essential in a game like Devil May Cry.
. btw, I do think star raves look cool .Also, I love that DmC does actually make the cancels seem a bit more seamless so it doesn't look quite as twitchy, its like the cancels were also considered when creating the animations, like i think it seems completely natural to do a first hit with axe, then fist, then rebellion, then axe. I think that's due to how rebellion just changes into whatever form in dante's hands, another sweet thing about DmC.
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TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Don't get me wrong. Canceling once or twice is perfectly reasonable, but when a combo video is 90% spamming cancels over and over and over, I'm not seeing a spectacle, I'm seeing a twitchy mess 
I can respect the skill it takes to do that sh!t, but I just don't think it really looks cool at all, and defeats a lot of the purpose of Devil May Cry being a spectacle brawler.
Think of it as watching a dancer you know is really good at dancing, and then they just stand there, shaking like they're having a seizure as they wiggle their way through a dance routine without any fluidity, style, or grace. All the spectacle is gone, and I'm wondering if I should jump on stage and put my wallet in the dancer's mouth to make sure they don't bite their tongue off :tongue:
I can respect the skill it takes to do that sh!t, but I just don't think it really looks cool at all, and defeats a lot of the purpose of Devil May Cry being a spectacle brawler.
Think of it as watching a dancer you know is really good at dancing, and then they just stand there, shaking like they're having a seizure as they wiggle their way through a dance routine without any fluidity, style, or grace. All the spectacle is gone, and I'm wondering if I should jump on stage and put my wallet in the dancer's mouth to make sure they don't bite their tongue off :tongue:
OppressedWriter
SamD
Yeah, It shouldn't be the only thing, but its great way to chain together unique combos, I like using it not to spam, but to get additional jumps or air time to string into another combo. I think best answer is that it is an integral component of Devil May Cry, but it shouldn't be the only thing, and I think DmC definitely did a good thing by adding the combos you could mix together seamlessly.Don't get me wrong. Canceling once or twice is perfectly reasonable, but when a combo video is 90% spamming cancels over and over and over, I'm not seeing a spectacle, I'm seeing a twitchy mess
I can respect the skill it takes to do that sh!t, but I just don't think it really looks cool at all, and defeats a lot of the purpose of Devil May Cry being a spectacle brawler.
Think of it as watching a dancer you know is really good at dancing, and then they just stand there, shaking like they're having a seizure as they wiggle their way through a dance routine without any fluidity, style, or grace. All the spectacle is gone, and I'm wondering if I should jump on stage and put my wallet in the dancer's mouth to make sure they don't bite their tongue off :tongue:
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Exactly. It's great as an insta-link between moves and a jump reset, but I lose interest really quickly when the combos are little more than doing the same thing ad nauseam.
OppressedWriter
SamD
I will say though spamming cancels in turbo mode is oddly satisfying, with the whole SSS, and points going up like crazy. They made slicing demons feel so good in DmC its criminal, I haven't played Fightback, but that's what made me afraid of NT making mobile games, they're really good at creating satisfying gameplay loops, it would be a shame if they used their skills and exploited the f2p mobile market.
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
It all depends on the players really I don't use star raves or guard flying or sky running on enemies just bosses I mainly just jc enemies with rainstorm inertia aerial rave yamato rave Lucifer spin helm splitter and the gattling gun for drawing you in after inertia ground dash million stabs cancel Lucifer explosion or rose cancels etc, if I can work in a sky run or side rave , star rave or revers rave or guard fly then I will but I do not go out of my way to.
Tony at Home
Active Member
After playing Bayonetta, I now realize there is zero reason DmC's soft lock and DMC4's hard lock cannot both be used at the same time in the game to get the advantages of both systems.
You are able to execute a 'stinger' by using the double forward tap + attack OR just lock on and press forward + attack.
The back, forward, attack can also be done with or without a lock-on. I've hardly ever had this move come out accidentally either.
To do one of the basic launchers, you need to lock on and press back+attack, however both of those basic launchers can be done by just doing a quick punch, pause, then either kick or punch for that respective launcher version.
This means you can have a launcher that doesn't necessarily require a lock-on target, yet doesn't take up a dedicated button on the controller either. Lock on is there, but optional. You have the ability to target foes specifically, but this does not make inputs harder for when you just need to throw something out quickly. You still have the option of using soft lock instead of position-relative inputs.
Given that the launcher button by default in DmC is taking up the space of the style-specific special move button in DMC4, adapting this system would allow for more complex styles by getting rid of the dedicated launcher buttons, yet still having easy launch inputs.
Given that Bayonetta was released prior to DmC, I'm actually shocked they didn't see this and implement it. Maybe it was just too far in development at that point. Either way, I hope other hack and slash developers take notice. Especially for the next DmC game.
You are able to execute a 'stinger' by using the double forward tap + attack OR just lock on and press forward + attack.
The back, forward, attack can also be done with or without a lock-on. I've hardly ever had this move come out accidentally either.
To do one of the basic launchers, you need to lock on and press back+attack, however both of those basic launchers can be done by just doing a quick punch, pause, then either kick or punch for that respective launcher version.
This means you can have a launcher that doesn't necessarily require a lock-on target, yet doesn't take up a dedicated button on the controller either. Lock on is there, but optional. You have the ability to target foes specifically, but this does not make inputs harder for when you just need to throw something out quickly. You still have the option of using soft lock instead of position-relative inputs.
Given that the launcher button by default in DmC is taking up the space of the style-specific special move button in DMC4, adapting this system would allow for more complex styles by getting rid of the dedicated launcher buttons, yet still having easy launch inputs.
Given that Bayonetta was released prior to DmC, I'm actually shocked they didn't see this and implement it. Maybe it was just too far in development at that point. Either way, I hope other hack and slash developers take notice. Especially for the next DmC game.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Well, I think the point was that DMC4 gave us access to everything in a slightly unintuitive way, so they wanted to make it work better. The Angel/Demon stance system in DmC is sort of an amalgamation of Syles and placing them in intuitive places on the controller instead of dedicating one button to it. In a certain way, they made portions of the old Style system obsolete - Swordmaster stuff is now just part of normal sword actions, same with Gunslinger stuff, along with the Sword and Gun Special keys. Agility and mobility things are relegated to Angel mode, and with aerial movement like a Glide, it's placed on the same button as the basic aerial movement - jumping.
I always reiterate that the Style system was clunky when they allowed air combos, but made you use a separate button than your ground combo. I don't care what you say - that is just unintuitive. Especially when in DMC4 Nero's ground and air combos were on the same button, but then they revert to the unintuitive scheme for Dante, simply for what seems like nostalgia and familiarity, which is just ludicrous given we just played half the game as a brand new character that controlled so much better.
The bigger problem with what you say is that the lock-on was done away with for a reason, and it just isn't necessary. I'd still say we could have one on R3 because...well...why not? But the game works without needing one, and if you take the time to understand the mechanics, you don't ever really miss the lock-on.
I do agree, though, that they could add in more directional inputs, especially adding them to the other attack buttons as well. Like Up+Up+Gun Special for Honeycomb and Gun Stinger, or Up+Up+Melee Special for something like Dance Macabre.
I always reiterate that the Style system was clunky when they allowed air combos, but made you use a separate button than your ground combo. I don't care what you say - that is just unintuitive. Especially when in DMC4 Nero's ground and air combos were on the same button, but then they revert to the unintuitive scheme for Dante, simply for what seems like nostalgia and familiarity, which is just ludicrous given we just played half the game as a brand new character that controlled so much better.
The bigger problem with what you say is that the lock-on was done away with for a reason, and it just isn't necessary. I'd still say we could have one on R3 because...well...why not? But the game works without needing one, and if you take the time to understand the mechanics, you don't ever really miss the lock-on.
I do agree, though, that they could add in more directional inputs, especially adding them to the other attack buttons as well. Like Up+Up+Gun Special for Honeycomb and Gun Stinger, or Up+Up+Melee Special for something like Dance Macabre.
OppressedWriter
SamD
What he said, I just want to stress it again, DmC does not need to learn from old lock on systems even the one from Bayonetta, DmC is the best implementation of target prioritization and dynamic fully controllable lock on ever put into a hack and slash game. If anything, Platinum and Jap devs need to try to bring their archaic lock on systems more in line with DmC's and not the other way around.
In DmC, Dante can fully move and attack in any direction, because he only remains locked on during attacks. This is way more dynamic, natural, and intuitive than a game like Bayonetta or MGR, where the game automatically makes you circle around the primary target. It's like going into lock on requires the game to put on you on a circular plane around each enemy, this is really annoying for group evades and on the fly enemy prioritization.
As for your other suggestions, you are needlessly complicating a system for complexities sakes, Just adding lock on so some people may use it is not a great way to design a game, DmC was designed with a lot of thought and care into each of its systems. Their is a reason an archaic hold or toggle lock on reticule was removed in favor of a dynamic, use the left stick + right attack to position yourself towards a target and then center camera, it is essentially a on the fly lock on. Try centering camera next time, and you'll see DmC's lock on works fine, it always centers on the person Dante is targeting.
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REAPER 3142
Revenge Solves Everything..............
I couldn't disagree more. I will say that some of the enemies were a little boring. But I really enjoyed any fight against the Dreamrunners/Drekavac. The one on one combat fights are some of the best parts of the game. The combat in this game is so fun and responsive. Also liked the Wisp and Imprisoner enemies. If there were some faster/smarter/less telegraphed opponents, it would have been nicer. My complaints in this game are few.
OppressedWriter
SamD
So, you know I noticed another brilliant thing about DmC's combat. You guys remember Nero's Table Hopper, it had three dodges, and well we all kinda know that angel dodge combined with demon dodge is a more flexible version of that. Well, it doesn't end there, the move snake eyes, which is inspired by the scripted buster moves is a dodge into attack move. You tap forward forwad + attack and dante will move back into strike position. Why am I mentioning this? Because if you combine it with Demon Dodge + Angel Dodge, you can buffer the Snake Eyes during the Angel Dodge, which means DANTE actually has three dodges that can be strung together to strike an enemy for maximum damage.
It's Demon Dodge + Angel Dodge + SNake Eyes. So you dodge Backward Then Forward Then Backward.
It's Demon Dodge + Angel Dodge + SNake Eyes. So you dodge Backward Then Forward Then Backward.
Indeed, DmC is the most fluid so far. Having target- dedicated movements and camera can be a pain. In fact, DMC 1 was probably (damn me for saying this if you wish) the best lock- on system prior to DmC because the camera was independent of the target and you would switch to the closest enemy around you. This was because the game wasn't about high combo strings but more focused on you using "keep away" tactics so you can take the time to analyze your enemy's movements and attacks.
It's awesome thinking about what NT could have done if they kept going with directional inputs.
Ah, but the same can be said about DmC Dante's juggling being on a separate button when it should be on the same button as normal attack. However, that doesn't count as a good point because DmC Dante's control scheme is centered around his modes as much as DMC 4 Dante's moves were centered around his styles. You have to remember that Circle also include Dodging (trickster) and Blocking (royalguard). While your point is still right, sinc DMC 4 didn't help streamline anything, you have to remember that the Circle button was holding more than one function and, without it doing so, we wouldn't have techniques such as StarRaving.
OppressedWriter
SamD
The lack of star raving really doesn't have anything to do with the inputs, it has mor eto do with how lock on systems work in Japanese games. Technically, Dante is way more agile and mobile in the air in DmC, because you can really control where and how you want to move him around. Although you can't spam on the side, you can most definitely calibur dash to inifintely by using dodge + right + calibur. TRy it. you'll see you can dash inifnitely all over the damn map. Also, you can use this with really fast inputs and angel dodge + ricoshot to really attack the enemy from all angles in the air.