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DmC: Devil may cry-Combat

Caiden said:
The biggest thing that feels unnecessary to me about DmC is two dodge buttons. I know that they both have a purpose for the sake of angel and demon dodge but angel dodge is really the only I ever felt was uses full. A damage boost is nice, but I am not going to wait for the exact dodge moment so I can get a damage boost in a game where I care more about stringing combos together. Just my opinion.
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You don't even need the 2 buttons to do them, one works for both since it's two different stances.
 
Caiden said:
The biggest thing that feels unnecessary to me about DmC is two dodge buttons. I know that they both have a purpose for the sake of angel and demon dodge but angel dodge is really the only I ever felt was uses full. A damage boost is nice, but I am not going to wait for the exact dodge moment so I can get a damage boost in a game where I care more about stringing combos together. Just my opinion.
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Well, that's also just dependent on a person's playstyle, y'know? What you find unnecessary because you don't use it is, to someone else, something that is wholly part of their repertoire or style of play :tongue:

It's like...I never use Royal Guard, but...I don't find it unnecessary, it's just not part of my arsenal.
 
Caiden said:
The biggest thing that feels unnecessary to me about DmC is two dodge buttons. I know that they both have a purpose for the sake of angel and demon dodge but angel dodge is really the only I ever felt was uses full. A damage boost is nice, but I am not going to wait for the exact dodge moment so I can get a damage boost in a game where I care more about stringing combos together. Just my opinion.
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You're not expected to wait around for the opportune time to demon dodge, especially since the AI in DmC reacts to the player, so the more aggressive and combo heavy you play, the more likely y0u will find yourself doing demon and angel dodges in the midst of fast paced combat. The way you're describing dodge is exactly what made dodging so clunky in the older games, it required too much set up (must be locked on, must input direction, must deal with positioning based on the direction you locked on, etc) and focus to properly dodge during combat unless the player was using trickster. In DmC, you have the same kind of flexibility as trickster, but instead of only during that style it is all the time. The dodging is more lenient, because its expected to be part of combat, you're supposed to demon dodge and angel dodge with high frequency, because the mechanic itself is look stylish. I mean I never can get over how awesome Dante looks when he demon dodges successfully in the air; its beautiful and its icing that on top that you can combine it with angel dodge to dodge back into place to deliver the hurt on demons.

If you haven't seen my hunter video, check it out, notice how you get more chances to demon dodge and angel dodge as you play more aggressively, if you wait around for the enemies to attack and just dodge, they won't attack you with the same level of frequency and aggression.

 
OppressedWriter said:
You're not expected to wait around for the opportune time to demon dodge, especially since the AI in DmC reacts to the player, so the more aggressive and combo heavy you play, the more likely y0u will find yourself doing demon and angel dodges in the midst of fast paced combat. The way you're describing dodge is exactly what made dodging so clunky in the older games, it required too much set up (must be locked on, must input direction, must deal with positioning based on the direction you locked on, etc) and focus to properly dodge during combat unless the player was using trickster. In DmC, you have the same kind of flexibility as trickster, but instead of only during that style it is all the time. The dodging is more lenient, because its expected to be part of combat, you're supposed to demon dodge and angel dodge with high frequency, because the mechanic itself is look stylish. I mean I never can get over how awesome Dante looks when he demon dodges successfully in the air; its beautiful and its icing that on top that you can combine it with angel dodge to dodge back into place to deliver the hurt on demons.

If you haven't seen my hunter video, check it out, notice how you get more chances to demon dodge and angel dodge as you play more aggressively, if you wait around for the enemies to attack and just dodge, they won't attack you with the same level of frequency and aggression.

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Sorry just not really my play style. Also too much set up to dodge in older games? It's a pretty simple button combo. I am not doing a comparison of DmC and DMC. I am just saying I don't like that there is two buttons for dodge in DmC. Got nothing to do with DMC.
 
Caiden said:
Sorry just not really my play style. Also too much set up to dodge in older games? It's a pretty simple button combo. I am not doing a comparison of DmC and DMC. I am just saying I don't like that there is two buttons for dodge in DmC. Got nothing to do with DMC.
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The problem is that you're saying you don't like there being two dodge buttons in DmC, but you acknowledge the reason for why two exist...so...I shrug.

Like...what's your problem with they're being two?
 
Caiden said:
Sorry just not really my play style. Also too much set up to dodge in older games? It's a pretty simple button combo. I am not doing a comparison of DmC and DMC. I am just saying I don't like that there is two buttons for dodge in DmC. Got nothing to do with DMC.
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You don't have to use both dodge buttons... I still don't understand the whole not my play style, what does that even mean? Changing the config to your liking is not your play style?

Anyway, about the dodge, here is what I meant when I said too much set up, you have to be locked on to a target than wait for it to attack than dodge, that removes the fluidity of dodge during combat when fighting multiple enemies. I mean do you see anyone using table hopper seamlessly all the time during combat in DMC4. . It's because it was too precise an input for actual use during group combat. DmC is about group combat so the dodge system is tailored for evading multiple targets multiple times during normal combat. You don't have to be locked on to a specific target. You can dodge multiple strikes since enemies actually coordinate their attacks instead of just piling up on top of each other.


Or here is another example, DmC does to dodge what MGR does to block (or wished it did to block for group encounters), its supposed to occur during normal combat with high frequency
 
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TWOxACROSS said:
The problem is that you're saying you don't like there being two dodge buttons in DmC, but you acknowledge the reason for why two exist...so...I shrug.

Like...what's your problem with they're being two?
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Because the button could be used for something else. we had a conversation recently where people were upset that MGR didn't use the circle button for much so I kind of have the same feeling about it.

OppressedWriter said:
You don't have to use both dodge buttons... I still don't understand the whole not my play style, what does that even mean? Changing the config to your liking is not your play style?

Anyway, about the dodge, here is what I meant when I said too much set up, you have to be locked on to a target than wait for it to attack than dodge, that removes the fluidity of dodge during combat when fighting multiple enemies. I mean do you see anyone using table hopper seamlessly all the time during combat in DMC4. . It's because it was too precise an input for actual use during group combat. DmC is about group combat so the dodge system is tailored for evading multiple targets multiple times during normal combat. You don't have to be locked on to a specific target. You can dodge multiple strikes since enemies actually coordinate their attacks instead of just piling up on top of each other.

Or here is another example, DmC does to dodge what MGR does to block (or wished it did to block for group encounters), its supposed to occur during normal combat with high frequency
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Why would you wait for them to attack? you can dodge a target you aren't locked on to, things like enemy step, snatch that brings you to a target, and trickster are used for dodging. It goes beyond just using the side roll for the enemy you are locked on to. I have seen table hopper used plenty and I love using. Also doesn't demon dodge fall under the same set up as table hopper? Dodge right before you are hit? Lock on doesn't mean you only focus on that target. In fact I was just playing DMC4 and I killed an enemy while being locked on to another. Most of you're attacks have a wide enough spread.

Ugh I am turning this into a comparison which I didn't want to do. I'm sorry.
 
Caiden said:
Because the button could be used for something else. we had a conversation recently where people were upset that MGR didn't use the circle button for much so I kind of have the same feeling about it.
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The PROBLEM is in MGR you can't remap dodge or any button to any other input. in DmC, you can map dodge to whatever button you want, it was just done so players could decide on their own, in MGR its decided for you. I am so confused by what the heck your actual problem is with a remappable dodge button, if they left it blank would you have been happier. I mean remapping gunspecial or deviltrigger, they left that up to the advanced players, cuz they're be the only ones that would bother. You can put attack on dpad down for all dmC cares, its all about providing the players options. Try remapping anything in MGR, its like you either learn the convoluted system they implemented or gfys.



Caiden said:
Why would you wait for them to attack? you can dodge a target you aren't locked on to, things like enemy step, snatch that brings you to a target, and trickster are used for dodging. It goes beyond just using the side roll for the enemy you are locked on to. I have seen table hopper used plenty and I love using.
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Caiden said:
The biggest thing that feels unnecessary to me about DmC is two dodge buttons. I know that they both have a purpose for the sake of angel and demon dodge but angel dodge is really the only I ever felt was uses full. A damage boost is nice, but I am not going to wait for the exact dodge moment so I can get a damage boost in a game where I care more about stringing combos together. Just my opinion.
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First, are you deliberately being bi-polar, just above you said, I don't see myeslf standing around to demon dodge, so I tell you that you can naturally do it in DmC the more aggressive you play and provide a video. Now you counter, that you can do this in DMC4 when you can't with the same level of fluidity with the same argument I presented. Wtf?

Anyway, yes, those are all options, which are also available in DmC, but its the dodge same kind of natural fluidity like DmC. Just because you randomly struck a guy or did it one or two times doesn't make it an integral seamless flowing system. The dodges in DmC are supposed to flow as naturally as your attacks, its simply about getting into a rhythm. Show me a nero video, where he is fighting multiple targets and dodging using tablehopper or evades that doesn't feel clunky. I mean the very act of him slowing down to lock on is enough to ruin the fast paced flow.

Caiden said:
Also doesn't demon dodge fall under the same set up as table hopper? Dodge right before you are hit? Lock on doesn't mean you only focus on that target. In fact I was just playing DMC4 and I killed an enemy while being locked on to another. Most of you're attacks have a wide enough spread.

Ugh I am turning this into a comparison which I didn't want to do. I'm sorry.
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No Demon Dodge doesn't fall into the same set up, because you don't have to lock on or slow down, you just tap dodge + trigger, and time slows down, if you didn't input a proper direction, than you can use that slowdown to angel dodge into a different direction and out of harm's way.

Also, DMC4 and older DMC games just didn't handle dodging multiple targets well at all, you literally had to always use trickster and in neros case you just you buster grabbed or pushed enemies into corners. The problem is the "ideal" tactics are forced on the player, where as DmC, you have multiple solutions to every problem, so you have more room to be creative while actually playing the normal game and not just during combo videos with the AI disabled.

Oh, I just noticed you love exceed in DMC4, DEMON DODGE in DmC is more like Exceed if anything, since its just about timing right before a strike, if you input trigger + dodge right before an enemy is about to strike you you will get a damage boost to all your attacks, and it is as natural as tapping the button right before a strike during nero combos.
 
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Caiden said:
Because the button could be used for something else. we had a conversation recently where people were upset that MGR didn't use the circle button for much so I kind of have the same feeling about it.
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Well, for many, we remap Gun Special over one of the evades, so...it's an easily rectified situation :tongue:

The difference between what DmC and MGR have is that MGR's is a truly wasted button, while in DmC a function can still be set to it, and one that actually makes the function easier to use.
 
The Final Offer said:
Hey guys.

In DMC you had to lock on to access a specific set of moves. This required tapping or holding a button down.

In DmC you have to hold down or tap a button to access a specific set of moves.

Which one has more freedom?
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I don't know, the one that doesn't have color coded enemies?
 
Aw c'mon guys. Colored enemies are a thing, and while some say it's "artificial difficulty" some others feel that they're an interesting and different kind of challenge. Just because some people don't like being incapable of using certain weapons on certain enemies doesn't make it good or bad. It's just preference.

DmC emphasizes creativity in combat, so now your challenge is to get creative in a different way, no big deal.

Who gives a sh!t anyway...?
 
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