DmC Definitive Edition for PS4 & Xbox One

[Chancey289]

It wasn't a sudden change of heart. Sure it was predictable, hell even before the game came out Devil May Cry fans kinda expected Vergil to turn on them because we know Vergil's originally a bad guy. The ulterior motives are shown and hinted , many times throughout the game. Even if it's subtle.

The game's plot is fairly straightforward and simple which makes me question how so many people, in an attempt to knock the game down more pegs, just seem to simply either ignore or not pay attention to anything in the game, or just don't understand the plot which is pretty elementary.

He's nothing but a generic ,evil twin, trite anime-antagonist stereotype in DMC 3. Any more in depth beliefs about Vergil are for the most part purely head canon due to the fans. The new one was actually more of a dynamic character has more of a personality. He establishes connections with people and has his own thoughts and opinions about how to handle things working with Dante and etc.. Vergil's Downfall was a very meta journey that shows him cutting all ties he views as weakness to become more like his original counterpart, but this time for a reason instead of just DMC's

"Hey, I'm Dante's polar opposite twin brother who's a power obsessed d!ck. I'll stay at the shallow end of this character pool cuz this is all I got".

I love villains. I'm a big villain guy. Which is why Vergil is so f#cking lame. He doesn't bring that much worth while to the table and it's just so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Hell, even DMC's Mundus was a tad more interesting because he kinda had a perk of being this ominous force throughout most of the game that could be speculated upon.

 

[Foxtrot94]

He's nothing but a generic ,evil twin, trite anime-antagonist stereotype in DMC 3. Any more in depth beliefs about Vergil are for the most part purely head canon due to the fans.

Not exactly. I won't argue that here and now, cause it's not the right place, but... let's just say stay tuned on Devil May Cry General Discussion... :wink:
I'm working on something... should be coming late next month though, cause exams are eating my time right now. Yeah, that's where nVergil gets useful... teaching computer stuff, wish he was my teacher LOL

But also, I would've loved to see more about the relationship between Kat and Vergil. Perhaps a mission (playable or not, I don't care) where he saves her like she said he did? That would've given him and Kat more backstory, and God knows they both need it.

I agree. But isn't there a novel about Kat and Vergil or something? Is it canon?

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Itsuno delivered in the dramatic scenes. In both DMC3 and 4. The way he directed them is superb.
DmC's over the top scenes are awesome, just like DMC, but when it tries to get emotional, there I felt it an inferior direction. At least compared to 3 and 4. Leagues above 1 and 2 though, that's for sure.

As for Vergil, I found his DmC incarnation even more lame, with that sudden "change of heart" that anyone could see coming. But without the badassness of the original. His role was basically to explain Dante stuff, cause he's the smartass between the two. Not gonna lie, I yawned every time he was on screen, except during their last fight.
In Vergil's Downfall he's way more interesting... too bad it's too short, but it's a DLC after all.

I gotta disagree on that.
Vergil's "change of heart" was hinted towards in a number of ways. In his actions and warnings. It was building up to what we all saw coming because it's Devil May Cry. Of COURSE Vergil was gonna be evil. It was just a matter of when he was going to show it in full stride.
Honestly for me, Vergil was more generic in DMC3 then DmC, but it depends on which generic. And for me, Vergil was the form of generic I hated the most in anime; the power-hungry sociopath who had no reason for wanting power. Just wanting it to have it and that's it. Like a spoiled child who wanted that toy just to want it with no reason for why.
DmC's Vergil was generic in that he mostly wanted power to kill Dante, get respect from his parents, and rule the world. That's been done to death honestly. But I lean more towards nVergil's reason for wanting power more so cause I just enjoy Western cinema more then Japanese these days.

 

[absolitude]

It wasn't a sudden change of heart. Sure it was predictable, hell even before the game came out Devil May Cry fans kinda expected Vergil to turn on them because we know Vergil's originally a bad guy. The ulterior motives are shown and hinted , many times throughout the game. Even if it's subtle.

too subtle imo, in a way that i didn't see it coming, but when it happened i did went "WOAHH, COOL", but long long after, "now wait a minute..", but i'm okay with it, since the direction is clear, i can see where they're going, and i firmly believed it was rushed --could've been better written, probably for the bad reception after they release earliest trailers..

and i'm a villain guy too, Vegeta, Vaako, Vergil, but on DmC's case, i favor both Dante n Vergil..

 

[Foxtrot94]

But I lean more towards nVergil's reason for wanting power more so cause I just enjoy Western cinema more then Japanese these days.

Well of course tastes are tastes. Legit that you don't like japanese stuff. I have no problem with that though, so naturally our opinions diverge. For example, the double-cross thing (is that how you say in English, right?), I've seen it so many times I got tired of it, hence my dislike for nVergil. It's normal, each of us's experiences are different, and that leads us to like and dislike different things.

 

[Chancey289]

Not exactly. I won't argue that here and now, cause it's not the right place, but... let's just say stay tuned on Devil May Cry General Discussion... :wink:
I'm working on something... should be coming late next month though, cause exams are eating my time right now. Yeah, that's where nVergil gets useful... teaching computer stuff, wish he was my teacher LOL



I agree. But isn't there a novel about Kat and Vergil or something? Is it canon?

It's all said and done Foxy. Anything you add to Vergil will be purely reaching to attempt to bring a character, since his inception, has always had the complexity of a coloring book. Fan fics don't count either.

And maybe you should expose yourself to more thought provoking entertainment than the shallow offerings on display in the Devil May Cry series if you truly believe its great storytelling. I love the series too, but I won't sit there and act like it was the epitome of storytelling. I'd have to be really out of touch to admit that.

It's because I love Devil May Cry, I call its faults out. As a fan, I don't think people should blindly accept and make excuses for missteps. I give credit where credit is due ,and call it out on its mistakes because I want it to get better.

And yes, the Chronicles of Vergil comic is canon exploring Vergil and Kat's meeting and romantic relationship that ensued for just a little while.

 

[Chancey289]

Well of course tastes are tastes. Legit that you don't like japanese stuff. I have no problem with that though, so naturally our opinions diverge.

Well, I love Asian cinema and entertainment. Some of my favorite films of all time, are stuff like Oldboy and I Saw The Devil. Takashii Miike is someone who is also one of my favorite directors too. Which is why I can't agree to such a simple assessment that "it's Japanese so you won't dig it if you don't like that." No, I get it.

Which is why I can also simply say, when it's bad, it's bad. It doesn't matter what country it's stemming from. I've seen amazing stories come out of Japan with awesome and well in depth characters.

 

[Chancey289]

Western cinema more then Japanese these days.

You should let me hook you up on some good Asian cinema friend.

 

[Foxtrot94]

And maybe you should expose yourself to more thought provoking entertainment than the shallow offerings on display in the Devil May Cry series if you truly believe its great storytelling.

I already said that at the time I'm too busy with exams, I ain't time to do much else. Though I got the concept and ideas.

And I'm not talking about storytelling, I know DMC's (as well as DmC's) writing is kinda lacking, I'm considering the pure cinematic direction of those scenes.
If I compare those DmC's dramatic scenes right next to DMC3 and 4's, I can do nothing but say that DmC's ones I feel cinematically inferior. You obviously think otherwise and none of us is going to change his mind, so let's just end this... cause frankly, this is not even the right thread, I think.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

You should let me hook you up on some good Asian cinema friend.

I love Asian movies of course. I meant to say it's anime that I've gotten sick of.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

It's all said and done Foxy. Anything you add to Vergil will be purely reaching to attempt to bring a character, since his inception, has always had the complexity of a coloring book. Fan fics don't count either.

And maybe you should expose yourself to more thought provoking entertainment than the shallow offerings on display in the Devil May Cry series if you truly believe its great storytelling. I love the series too, but I won't sit there and act like it was the epitome of storytelling. I'd have to be really out of touch to admit that.

It's because I love Devil May Cry, I call its faults out. As a fan, I don't think people should blindly accept and make excuses for missteps. I give credit where credit is due ,and call it out on its mistakes because I want it to get better.

And yes, the Chronicles of Vergil comic is canon exploring Vergil and Kat's meeting and romantic relationship that ensued for just a little while.

From what you put in bold, Chance, that too is a good reason to be a Devil May Cry fan!

A quote from a person named James A .Baldwin said this:
"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."
So by being fans, we should also point out the flaws, not overlook them like a bunch of obnoxious, fanatical and biased fanboys/fangirls.

 

[Judge]

I think DmC 2 should function like Bayonetta 2. It brings back all of the elements of the previous combat system, but just gives you more to do with it. More enemies, more bosses, more weapons...don't break what doesn't need fixing, just add more things to do.

You know as a huge fan of Bayonetta 1, I'm pretty dissapointed with how they did they second one. It feels like a button basher. The Witch Time mechanic has been nerfed. It not as good as the first game. The only thing better is the more weapons and the better QTEs, which were bad in the first game.

If anything I would say the air mehanics and the camera mecahnics are much better in DmC than Bayonetta, so are the visuals. In DmC you can clearly see how the enemy will attack you, in Bayonetta sometimes you can't see the move properly and sometimes the camera obscures your view.

If DmC2 does anything like Bayonetta it has to be the sheer level of moves and weapons Bayonetta has. DmC exceeds Bayonetta in all but the amount of moves Dante has, and the Devil Trigger. Bayonetta's fancy Umbran Trigger is better.

 

[Chancey289]

I love Asian movies of course. I meant to say it's anime that I've gotten sick of.

Well, yea. Good anime shows nowadays are few and far between.

 

[sssensational]

You know as a huge fan of Bayonetta 1, I'm pretty dissapointed with how they did they second one. It feels like a button basher. The Witch Time mechanic has been nerfed. It not as good as the first game. The only thing better is the more weapons and the better QTEs, which were bad in the first game.

If anything I would say the air mehanics and the camera mecahnics are much better in DmC than Bayonetta, so are the visuals. In DmC you can clearly see how the enemy will attack you, in Bayonetta sometimes you can't see the move properly and sometimes the camera obscures your view.

If DmC2 does anything like Bayonetta it has to be the sheer level of moves and weapons Bayonetta has. DmC exceeds Bayonetta in all but the amount of moves Dante has, and the Devil Trigger. Bayonetta's fancy Umbran Trigger is better.

Interesting that you say that considering the fact that I've seen 10 slapped around a lot when it comes to Bayonetta 2. I personally can't say anything about the game due to the fact that I haven't played it.

 

[The Final Offer]

Interesting that you say that considering the fact that I've seen 10 slapped around a lot when it comes to Bayonetta 2. I personally can't say anything about the game due to the fact that I haven't played it.

I agree with Judge on Bayo 2 and as Ive stated previously, it is a button masher, and I don't think you'll be finding any combo videos of the game. Maybe a few perfect runs, but that's it.

 

[WolfOD64]

And maybe you should expose yourself to more thought provoking entertainment than the shallow offerings on display in the Devil May Cry series if you truly believe its great storytelling. I love the series too, but I won't sit there and act like it was the epitome of storytelling. I'd have to be really out of touch to admit that.

This.
THIS.

Out of all the posts I've seen on threads correlating to this topic, this just screams what I've been trying to say for so long. Devil May Cry is fun to watch, if you turn your brain off and accept the pure visceral nature of it...as long as you don't try to delude yourself into thinking it's some narrative monolith on par with Tennyson.

I like the story, flashy cutscenes, and premise for Devil May Cry, but I also like the story and characters for Resident Evil, Bayonetta, Sengoku Basara and Soul Calibur. The difference is that I don't pretend that ANY of them have a plot or script executed with even the tiniest shred of narrative competence.

It's because I love Devil May Cry, I call its faults out.

It's only when you sit down and spend time with something long enough that you can finally bite back any premeditated bias and admit what you don't like about it. It's easy to criticize something you know nothing about from afar...but it is far harder to admit the flaws in something you actually know and like.

Well, I love Asian cinema and entertainment.

Some of my favorite horror films of all time come from Japan. Even some of the spaghetti westerns that I have a raging fanaticism over take influences from classic ronin cinema like Seven Samurai and Yojimbo...both of which are awesome films in their own right.

Oh, and one more thing....Thirteen Assassins. Just saying.

I love Asian movies of course. I meant to say it's anime that I've gotten sick of.

Anime is no longer what it once was. What was once a medium sprawling with many different genres and archetypes, from fantasy to cyberpunk, noirs and space operas, post-apocalyptic odyesseys or crime-ridden escapades, have been submerged beneath the half-baked tripe of high-school dramas, moe ecstasies, and painfully-derivative rehashes of past successes.

The same industry that brought us Ghost in the Shell, Record of the Lodoss War, Vagabond, Bubblegum Crisis, Trigun, Hellsing, Black Lagoon, and Berserk...is now conjuring up mountain upon MOUNTAIN of comedic moe fluff-pieces or shonen riddled with more ham-fisted monologues and sappy characters than an M. Night Shamalayan movie.

 

[Foxtrot94]

About all this anime thing... why doesn't some of you guys who knows his stuff about that open a thread about it (if it doesn't already exist)? Cause I've never really gotten that far into anime, and I'm interested in watching some. Thing is, I don't know where to start. Maybe you guys could suggest some good ones.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

About all this anime thing... why doesn't some of you guys who knows his stuff about that open a thread about it (if it doesn't already exist)? Cause I've never really gotten that far into anime, and I'm interested in watching some. Thing is, I don't know where to start. Maybe you guys could suggest some good ones.

I'll PM you some stuff

 

[Chancey289]

This.
THIS.

Out of all the posts I've seen on threads correlating to this topic, this just screams what I've been trying to say for so long. Devil May Cry is fun to watch, if you turn your brain off and accept the pure visceral nature of it...as long as you don't try to delude yourself into thinking it's some narrative monolith on par with Tennyson.

I like the story, flashy cutscenes, and premise for Devil May Cry, but I also like the story and characters for Resident Evil, Bayonetta, Sengoku Basara and Soul Calibur. The difference is that I don't pretend that ANY of them have a plot or script executed with even the tiniest shred of narrative competence.


It's only when you sit down and spend time with something long enough that you can finally bite back any premeditated bias and admit what you don't like about it. It's easy to criticize something you know nothing about from afar...but it is far harder to admit the flaws in something you actually know and like.


Some of my favorite horror films of all time come from Japan. Even some of the spaghetti westerns that I have a raging fanaticism over take influences from classic ronin cinema like Seven Samurai and Yojimbo...both of which are awesome films in their own right.

Oh, and one more thing....Thirteen Assassins. Just saying.


Anime is no longer what it once was. What was once a medium sprawling with many different genres and archetypes, from fantasy to cyberpunk, noirs and space operas, post-apocalyptic odyesseys or crime-ridden escapades, have been submerged beneath the half-baked tripe of high-school dramas, moe ecstasies, and painfully-derivative rehashes of past successes.

The same industry that brought us Ghost in the Shell, Record of the Lodoss War, Vagabond, Bubblegum Crisis, Trigun, Hellsing, Black Lagoon, and Berserk...is now conjuring up mountain upon MOUNTAIN of comedic moe fluff-pieces or shonen riddled with more ham-fisted monologues and sappy characters than an M. Night Shamalayan movie.

Yes, seriously. I mean, I LOVE The Evil Dead films. All of them. Including the remake which was everything Evil Dead should be without being some shallow carbon copy of the original. Ash Williams is like, one of my favorite movie characters ever. However, Evil Dead knows what it is, I know what it is, so I view it for what it is.

I've been meaning to watch Thirteen Assassins. Thanks for reminding me. Love me some Asian horror too.

As for anime, the only newer shows in recent years I've gotten in to would have to be Attack on Titan, Watamote, Hourou Musuko, and I guess I'll add Future Diary to that list. I'm gonna be finished with this show within the next hour. I started it yesterday and just kinda binged it lol.

While I do feel it kinda starts to lose it towards the end, all in all, Future Diary is a fun, twisted, and bizarre journey I enjoyed simply for its uniqueness. That seems to be the only thing that catches my eye today when it comes to anime. Just stuff that's different because nowadays, it's more of the same crap like you said.

 

[Foxtrot94]

As for the argued topic... eventually, it all comes down to the watcher. The emotions of each of us are triggered by different ways, so it's all subjective: the way DmC tried that had almost no effect on me, while the way DMC did it had no effect on you. At the end of the day, all that we can do is explaining why and set our heart in peace.

Now... can we get back to the DmC DE topic? Or must we wait until next Wednesday's gameplay for that? XD

@DragonMaster2010 thanks pal!