DmC Definitive Edition for PS4 & Xbox One

[Tiran]

MGR exceeded DmC in some parts, like for example dynamic surrounding and enemy bodies. In DmC all surrounding was stationary and pre-coded making it much less demanding that it looked like. And for 60 fps on PC, I hope you know that it was actually coded by completely different team, namely QLOC and as such higher frame most likely lies with better programming skill than with problematic hardware.

Mgr surrounding was not dynamic unless the cutting mechanic affected the world. Even then, the more separate pieces you cut the more intensive it gets for the hardware. Polygon count, particle effects, surface textures and other things are lessened and or carefully implemented with frame-rate constantly considered. Compare the character models for both games- the rougher, texture and polygon heavy multi-layered models of DmC to the smoother lighter hollower ones in MGR. Visual magic is somewhat sacrificed for performance or vice-versa on consoles all the time. However, this style fits the Japanese games well as they have worked this smooth shiny porcelain look into their artistic presentation. Mgr is less hardware intensive than DmC. Ninja theory has had excellent programmers and the support of the experience of Capcom if they could have hit 60 fps with DmC on consoles, they would have. That's why the re-release can run at higher fidelity and frame-rate , it isn't because of better coding, it's because of it running on more powerful hardware. If superior coding was all that games needed then monster budget titles could pay to bring in expert encoders to get Skyrim and GTA running on consoles at 60 or higher.

 

[Foxtrot94]

NT doesn't have poor programming skill. For instance, they made an excellent job for DmC PC port. I've seen uglier games using the UE running way worse. Never had a frame drop. Even on an average laptop with everything maxed out.

 

[Innsmouth]

NT doesn't have poor programming skill. For instance, they made an excellent job for DmC PC port. I've seen uglier games using the UE running way worse. Never had a frame drop. Even on an average laptop with everything maxed out.

They didn't made DmC port. Also their main programmer left them after Enslaved.

Mgr surrounding was not dynamic unless the cutting mechanic affected the world. Even then, the more separate pieces you cut the more intensive it gets for the hardware. Polygon count, particle effects, surface textures and other things are lessened and or carefully implemented with frame-rate constantly considered. Compare the character models for both games- the rougher, texture and polygon heavy multi-layered models of DmC to the smoother lighter hollower ones in MGR. Visual magic is somewhat sacrificed for performance or vice-versa on consoles all the time. However, this style fits the Japanese games well as they have worked this smooth shiny porcelain look into their artistic presentation. Mgr is less hardware intensive than DmC. Ninja theory has had excellent programmers and the support of the experience of Capcom if they could have hit 60 fps with DmC on consoles, they would have. That's why the re-release can run at higher fidelity and frame-rate , it isn't because of better coding, it's because of it running on more powerful hardware. If superior coding was all that games needed then monster budget titles could pay to bring in expert encoders to get Skyrim and GTA running on consoles at 60 or higher.

The only part of characters that more complex in DmC were faces that were make with motion capture. Other than that models were equaly complex. Though enemies models particle system is much more complex in MGR than it was DmC. Most of stuff you see in DmC are added with filters not with modeling. If Nt had so good programmers they wouldn't need capcom's help in the first place. And you can't really compared DmC to open world games like GTA or Skyrim. They are tenfold more demanding than MGR, GoW, DmC or any other level-based game.

 

[Foxtrot94]

They didn't made DmC port.

Really? Huh. Always convinced they did. Well thx for the info

 

[Innsmouth]

Really? Huh. Always convinced they did. Well thx for the info

Oh, I though you knew. Capcom transferred development to another dev for some reason...

 

[Tiran]

They didn't made DmC port. Also their main programmer left them after Enslaved.
The only part of characters that more complex in DmC were faces that were make with motion capture. Other than that models were equaly complex. Though enemies models particle system is much more complex in MGR than it was DmC. Most of stuff you see in DmC are added with filters not with modeling. If Nt had so good programmers they wouldn't need capcom's help in the first place. And you can't really compared DmC to open world games like GTA or Skyrim. They are tenfold more demanding than MGR, GoW, DmC or any other level-based game.

They needed Capcom's help in combat and game design as far as making a proper entry into the franchise goes. Programming was done all by NT as necessary for what they were told they needed to do. Also, the models in Dmc are Far more complex and polygon heavy than Mgr. the game world itself is also far busier even when stationary. You cannot look at the world in Dmc and tell me anything in MGR rivaled that. DmC was crazy complex. Also, the team that handled the pc port only optimized the game for pc they did not re-program it from the ground up.

...And head programmer, Micheal Ball (I think that's what his name was) left late in development of DmC in 2012. Not after Enslaved.

 

[Jack500]

They needed Capcom's help in combat and game design as far as making a proper entry into the franchise goes. Programming was done all by NT as necessary for what they were told they needed to do. Also, the models in Dmc are Far more complex and polygon heavy than Mgr. the game world itself is also far busier even when stationary. You cannot look at the world in Dmc and tell me anything in MGR rivaled that. DmC was crazy complex. Also, the team that handled the pc port only optimized the game for pc they did not re-program it from the ground up.

...And head programmer, Micheal Ball (I think that's what his name was) left late in development of DmC in 2012. Not after Enslaved.

Word of advice. Debating with Innsmouth, is an exercise in futility, just ad him to your ignore list, and let him live in his own little echo chamber.

 

[Innsmouth]

They needed Capcom's help in combat and game design as far as making a proper entry into the franchise goes. Programming was done all by NT as necessary for what they were told they needed to do. Also, the models in Dmc are Far more complex and polygon heavy than Mgr. the game world itself is also far busier even when stationary. You cannot look at the world in Dmc and tell me anything in MGR rivaled that. DmC was crazy complex. Also, the team that handled the pc port only optimized the game for pc they did not re-program it from the ground up.

...And head programmer, Micheal Ball (I think that's what his name was) left late in development of DmC in 2012. Not after Enslaved.

We can argue about it, but MGR models are much more complex than DmC ones, imo. Considering amount of technology details on them they exceeding DmC ones. DmC looking more realistic, but realistic doesn't mean complex. DmC isn't as complex as it looks. It relies heavily on filters and pre-coded sequences and older games like GoW and MGSIV are much more complex. Also Itsuno stated in some interview that they were giving tutor classes for NT to make their work better. Which is more than just overlook project.
Also their main programmer left in january of 2012, basically 2 years before release.

 

[DantesLink]

Oh, I though you knew. Capcom transferred development to another dev for some reason...

Mostly to optimize workload, its common practice to outsource porting to other companies that specialize at it. In fact, QLOC has handled other Capcom titles too.

 

[Judge]

Theres no way to prove one game is more hardware demanding than the other without some form of scientific investigation. To be able to compare MGR and DmC on a programming level it would require statistics and quantative data. Information we don't have nor am I interested in obtaining.

Its also a given that Capcom would assist and tutor Ninja Theory. Capcom have been in the buisness for over 30 years. They know action games in and out. Of course Ninja Theory learned a lot working with them. We can't expect Ninja Theory, a less experienced developer than Capcom to make a game for Capcom without Capcom's input and advice. Thats how a collaboration works.

With reference to Titan's post. That was a good point about neither Skyrim or GTA hitting 60 FPS. Thats not all, there was only one Unreal Engine game able to hit 60 FPS on consoles. It was Mortal Kombat Vs DC. If no other developer could do that on Unreal Engine, not even Capcom with Asura's Wraith. Then I don't expect Ninja Theory to do it with the hardware they had at the time.

 

[Tiran]

We can argue about it, but MGR models are much more complex than DmC ones, imo. Considering amount of technology details on them they exceeding DmC ones. DmC looking more realistic, but realistic doesn't mean complex. DmC isn't as complex as it looks. It relies heavily on filters and pre-coded sequences and older games like GoW and MGSIV are much more complex. Also Itsuno stated in some interview that they were giving tutor classes for NT to make their work better. Which is more than just overlook project.
Also their main programmer left in january of 2012, basically 2 years before release.

Imo...? What? Did you really say that in a debate? What does opinion have to do with the actual fact of their being some 500 individual points of articulation and multiple layers of rendering in a single boss character in DmC? Or the fact that under Dante's coat is an actual removable layer of clothing and then another each with it's own programmed articulations and movement and textures. Or the facial structure having been actually modeled with dozens of points of muscle movement alone. You know what's under Raidens' suit? Nothing. He's a hollow figure with fewer polygons and less texture . Itsuno never said anything about making their work better. He -and Tameem- made the metaphor that Ninja theory wee going to Capcom university for game combat. Nt are skilled at what they do. They aren't unskilled to the point that another studio must teach them how to program or they would not have gotten the job to begin with.

Where is SamD when you need him? He could finish you like Shao Khan.

 

[Innsmouth]

Imo...? What? Did you really say that in a debate? What does opinion have to do with the actual fact of their being some 500 individual points of articulation and multiple layers of rendering in a single boss character in DmC? Or the fact that under Dante's coat is an actual removable layer of clothing and then another each with it's own programmed articulations and movement and textures. Or the facial structure having been actually modeled with dozens of points of muscle movement alone. You know what's under Raidens' suit? Nothing. He's a hollow figure with fewer polygons and less texture . Itsuno never said anything about making their work better. He -and Tameem- made the metaphor that Ninja theory wee going to Capcom university for game combat. Nt are skilled at what they do. They aren't unskilled to the point that another studio must teach them how to program or they would not have gotten the job to begin with.

Where is SamD when you need him? He could finish you like Shao Khan.

Just like Dante in DmC Raiden has multiple skins. Another thing you have to consider that Dante uses motion capturing in face just like bosses, while models in MGR are manually made from face to toes. Consider that Raiden model suffers from heavy damage like his lost arm and damaged suit in first mission. Dante doesn't has any change except removable coat
. Considering amount of attachable parts and how freely bosses move in MGR they are far more complex than bosses in DmC. To the extent that Mundus is basically uses reskinned attacks of Poision and vice versa. Besides all bosses in DmC except for Vergil are immovable lumps of flesh. While bosses in MGR has unique move set and visuals. So yeah if you talk complexity, MGR despite it looks more plain isn't less complex if you consider that every enemy has interactive animation with Raiden.
Also Itsuno said something different. He claimed they visited NT once per month to teach them more complex combat programming and ensure it doesn't fall behind old DMc titles. You have to consider that all other NT games combat system is really plain and can't hold against more complex action titles.

 

[sssensational]

Anyway, after DmC I'm really excited about Ninja Theory's future. Granted, I didn't care much for the combat in Enslaved. Heavenly Sword had something but I still stopped playing. I hope that they learned a lot due to constant help from Capcom and I hope that they will use it in future games.

 

[Innsmouth]

I really want Heavenly Sword 2 >_>

 

[Tiran]

Just like Dante in DmC Raiden has multiple skins. Another thing you have to consider that Dante uses motion capturing in face just like bosses, while models in MGR are manually made from face to toes. Consider that Raiden model suffers from heavy damage like his lost arm and damaged suit in first mission. Dante doesn't has any change except removable coat
. Considering amount of attachable parts and how freely bosses move in MGR they are far more complex than bosses in DmC. To the extent that Mundus is basically uses reskinned attacks of Poision and vice versa. Besides all bosses in DmC except for Vergil are immovable lumps of flesh. While bosses in MGR has unique move set and visuals. So yeah if you talk complexity, MGR despite it looks more plain isn't less complex if you consider that every enemy has interactive animation with Raiden.
Also Itsuno said something different. He claimed they visited NT once per month to teach them more complex combat programming and ensure it doesn't fall behind old DMc titles. You have to consider that all other NT games combat system is really plain and can't hold against more complex action titles.

What are you even talking about?! Battle damaged Raiden was a completely different model swapped out from the normal one during a cutscene, yet no more complex- as far as it's polygonal count and other technical consideration is- than that one. Even less so due to the lack of an entire arm. Also, complexity of rendering a character model and combat depth are two different things. How does how the bosses freely move (animation) prove they are structurally more complex to render in engine (polygon count, joints, texture etc). Also, though the fight was similar, Mundus's moves were uniquely animated for him not actually copy/pasted and do not in any way show how intensive his model is to render. Immovable lumps of flesh? Have you played DmC? The bosses are all very well animated, rendered and articulated to the point that the hunter model alone was used extensively in and out of gameplay and cut-scene and could perform a number of different actions beautifully. What are you even saying here? Also, combat programming is not technical programming as far as performance optimization on the platform is concerned which is what we were actually talking about- if you even remember anymore.

 

[sssensational]

Sorry about this being unrelated, but anyone else struggling to connect to this website sometimes? 9/10 times when I go to: http://devilmaycry.org/forums/dmc-devil-may-cry/ it works but any other link like devilmaycry.org needs multiple refreshes.

 

[Innsmouth]

What are you even talking about?! Battle damaged Raiden was a completely different model swapped out from the normal one during a cutscene, yet no more complex- as far as it's polygonal count and other technical consideration is- than that one. Even less so due to the lack of an entire arm. Also, complexity of rendering a character model and combat depth are two different things. How does how the bosses freely move (animation) prove they are structurally more complex to render in engine (polygon count, joints, texture etc). Also, though the fight was similar, Mundus's moves were uniquely animated for him not actually copy/pasted and do not in any way show how intensive his model is to render. Immovable lumps of flesh? Have you played DmC? The bosses are all very well animated, rendered and articulated to the point that the hunter model alone was used extensively in and out of gameplay and cut-scene and could perform a number of different actions beautifully. What are you even saying here? Also, combat programming is not technical programming as far as performance optimization on the platform is concerned which is what we were actually talking about- if you even remember anymore.

Battledamaged raiden is same model only modified with different looks. Consider that most enemies in MGR are dynamic and loose limbs and parts in game. While in DmC enemies all interact same way by exploding into black bloats.
Easy: less movement equals less complexity. As such all bosses in DmC are more primitive and less complex than MGR bosses. If you don't think it's not lumps of flesh, I have to ask if you even played it. All animations of bosses in DmC is pretty simplistic and keep repeating themselves. Poison and Mundus is basically one reskinned boss. They both have only 2 moves: ground pound and spit/shot. Mundus spawn mostly sits in one place and barely moves and Bob. is basically one rendered motion-captured head with tons of filters slapped atop of it. The only complexly made boss is vergil.
Tons of filters not making it more complex. As far as it goes, it's much simpler to make object A move to point B so happens action C, than make object A dynamically interact with point B.

Sorry about this being unrelated, but anyone else struggling to connect to this website sometimes? 9/10 times when I go to: http://devilmaycry.org/forums/dmc-devil-may-cry/ it works but any other link like devilmaycry.org needs multiple refreshes.

Sorry its most likely problems with your connection. It works fine for me.

 

[Judge]

Anyway, after DmC I'm really excited about Ninja Theory's future. Granted, I didn't care much for the combat in Enslaved. Heavenly Sword had something but I still stopped playing. I hope that they learned a lot due to constant help from Capcom and I hope that they will use it in future games.

Hellblade looks intriguing, I'm really looking foward to seeing what those guys cook up with that.

It will be a completely different action experience than Bayonetta. The story and concept will also be unique and it will be Ninja Theory's IP so they will have full creative control over it, unlike DmC, which was bound by the Devil May Cry IP. Looking forward to seeing what these guys can do with no limits and better hardware.

 

[Tiran]

Battledamaged raiden is same model only modified with different looks. Consider that most enemies in MGR are dynamic and loose limbs and parts in game. While in DmC enemies all interact same way by exploding into black bloats.
Easy: less movement equals less complexity. As such all bosses in DmC are more primitive and less complex than MGR bosses. If you don't think it's not lumps of flesh, I have to ask if you even played it. All animations of bosses in DmC is pretty simplistic and keep repeating themselves. Poison and Mundus is basically one reskinned boss. They both have only 2 moves: ground pound and spit/shot. Mundus spawn mostly sits in one place and barely moves and Bob. is basically one rendered motion-captured head with tons of filters slapped atop of it. The only complexly made boss is vergil.
Tons of filters not making it more complex. As far as it goes, it's much simpler to make object A move to point B so happens action C, than make object A dynamically interact with point B.



Sorry its most likely problems with your connection. It works fine for me.

Again.... What does that have to do with polygon count? You just moved on to a separate argument. We were discussing what pushes hardware. Not the depth of the combat. Or which game has better mechanics.

 

[Innsmouth]

Again.... What does that have to do with polygon count? You just moved on to a separate argument. We were discussing what pushes hardware. Not the depth of the combat. Or which game has better mechanics.

what do you thing more demanding: figure that has XX moves programmed or dynamic interactive world /enemies? Question is how many information hardware have to render at the same time. All animations in DmC allready predefined except of enemy interaction. They don't demand as much power as amount of particles in MGR. You are mistakenly think that many effects in DmC demand additional rendering power, while they are simply filters placed on top of animation that isn't nearly demanding as they look.