Dmc dante vs DMC3 vergil

[Sieghart]

... What?

I think he is talking about DMC 3 Dante.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I think he is talking about DMC 3 Dante.

Oh ok. Good.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Then why not Phinias, Sparda himself, or Eva? Why not all the angels gather to defeat him? Because he was in Limbo, and normal Angels can't cross into Limbo. Only Nephilim can, thus the only being that can kill demon kings.

I know one thing, Sparda couldn't because she was to weak. That is why MCMundus did what he did to him.
As for Eva , i don't know, maybe she was expelled from Heaven and abandoned for partnering with a demon?
Thats only logical assumption i can make.
Even if she wasn't expelled, why would the angels go to war with MCMundus for?

Infact just like how MCMundus felt about Blood Brother Sparda partnering with a angel, the other angels probably felt the same.

Not only that, but because they could cross worlds in order to GET to Mundus. That's a Nephilim trait.

Indeed. But are you telling me that because Nephilims could do that, then that means they were only one who can kill MCMundus? There are other demons you know, NTSparda, was a demon.
Plus though it may not be natural for angels to warp into Limbo, it would be naive to think there aren't angels who can access Limbo.

When would Mundus ever let his hellgate be drestroyed unless he was really ****ed? It would probably take more then just a bunch of humans he rules over to get him away from his hellgate. Plus Vergil didnt destroy it, he sealed it.

Whatever he did, my point is, if conditions were met. The Hellgate were sealed, and MCMundus were bombed by F15 planes, would he die? Do you know that for certain?
Because i think he would.

Thus, "The only beings that can slay a demon king" along with "Crossing into other worlds".

Yes, if no angels or demons attacked MCMundus. But your bringing up this statement about nephilims as if it's an argument for NTDante being stronger than DMC3Vergil.
Once DMC3Vergil enters DmC universe, he is the third person counting NTVergil and NTDante to slay a demon king.
So really that statement has little value because being only ones who can kill MCMundus among the humans is not a feat.

And if you think other demons or angels can't defeat MCMundus...then i'm afraid you will be mistaken.

I think Dante was smart enough to be able to know where the core is. Obviously he just could use his grapple to expose his eyes, and he could recover from that considering he's taken worse.

I am not making a point about his intelligence level. You said NTDante was defeating MCMundus mostly by himself. That's not true. Before NTVergil stabbed MCMundus, NTDante eyes were in his head. A clear sign of pain. And NTVergil helped out during the battle afterwards too.

The only ONES who can slay a demon king. I knew that one already.

Then why are you ruling out NTVergil killing MCMundus?

But it didn't say "Only a son of Sparda can defeat Mundus." Dante was the only one who could because he was his father's son. Dad's dead so who's obviously gonna have to handle that?

Yes. New Mundus is more down to Earth with his power since it got sealed, while Old Mundus was sealed in a marbel statue with most of his powers sealed as well.

MCMundus seems weaker than DMCMundus. MCMundus died. When a older Dante (older than NTDante) fought Mundus (in DMC1), he couldn't kill him even with help from Trish.

Which I call crap since both Dantes are equal in their power, which means if DMC3 Dante could do it, DmC Dante could too, yet it's not clicking to anyone here.

Afraid you don't have much of a argument if you think this. Dante did not achieve Devil Trigger before Vergil, and you don't even think hes equal to Dante?

Either way both can regenerate so they're at least equal in the sense that they can.

DMC3Dante regens better.

I blame that on the grounds that its suppose to be an action game and logic is usually lost in it.

Throughout DMC, it has been shown many times that Dante has high regeneration. Infact here is a scene where the mood is not "action":
This scene does not have any rocket surfing or demon head spinning, just a serious scene
Neither does this one

That's because it was his own brother who slashed him in DmC. In DMC3 it was the same thing; vergil was slashed and he was gripping his chest in pain while stumbling to reach the edge of the cliff before his big leap of faith. And when did NT Dante rest for 2 hours anywhere?

The night after NTDante left the club, two strippers came with him and they had sex, next morning you see scratch wounds on his back. Must been from the strippers. Anyway, he had slept for at least 2 hours, yet he did not recover those scratches.

Old Dante wasn't a Nephilim so obviously old Mundus didn't die.

Are you serious? Are you applying a rule from DmC to DMC? So because in DmC Vergil gives impression that only they, nephilims, can kill MCMundus, you then go and apply a law from DmC universe to DMC universe and then conclude that Mundus from DMC did not die because original Dante was not a nephilim.
You must be joking with me...

Are there even nephilims in DMC? I've not seen a single trait of one.

Then your opinion doesn't hold much substance since reflexes can over come speed.

Speed and reflexes, DMC3Vergil has both of them. Anyway are you telling me that you have a opinion that NTDante is much faster than DMC3Vergil?
If so, can't see it anywhere. But what i can see from DMC3Vergil is:
1, 2, 3

So just because he heals faster, they're different? That's really flawed logic considering just because of regeneration. Both dante's were created to have the same power level at their ages, and obviously both can hadle each other's Vergils as such.

Regeneration helps you survive, the one with better regeneration will last longer.

Yes. He should have killed him while he was prattling on about "No one can have this Dante, it's mine."
"Not anymore"
"BLAM"
Shot dead.

Why should Dante kill Vergil for being reasonable. He held on to the amulet because of its sentimental value...

But because it's with new Dante and old Vergil, it doesn't count? Nostalgia creeping up I see.

What's your point?
Can't bother replying to rest of your points.

My opinion is that DMC3Vergil is stronger than NTDante. I can't prove it to a significant degree. But i realize that DMC3Dante has higher regeneration than NTDante.
And regeneration is important.

Other than that, Vergil losing to Dante was really not a big deal. It doesn't mean he is weaker than Dante. Infact if you conclude that, then you can conclude that Dante is weaker to Vergil, because remember he lost?
Though back then Dante was really weaker to Vergil. He had not awakened his demonic powers. And you can see how superior Vergil is by how he hits Rebellion off from Dante's hand, and then stabs him with Katana.

But Dante is the protaganist, and he awakened his powers that put him on same level as Vergil. And his cause for fighting was more important and had with emotions to do. Which made Dante win. If two equals fight together, one fight for hate, other fight for love, who do you think will win?
You may say "They are equal, noone will win", but thats not true. Someone who has love in their heart when fighting will endure more.

And this is why Vergil is the antagonist and Dante is the protaganist.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

To go along with this "Nice conversation" Old Dante might not have killed old mundus but he have killed two demon kings after him. One is Abigail when he just transform into DT and Two is Argosax the chaos/Despair Embodied which is to me have achieved a high existence than a demon king being more of a "concept".

But that was Dante at a stronger time. By that time of course he could kill demon kings.

Plus, i think that emotions does count as a huge advantage in a battle where Dante came to accept both heritage and having the responsbility to protect humans while Vergil can't accept his human side like what BLACKSWIPE said.

Yes, they do.
But then again, I still prefer both version of Vergil than both Dante.

Edit: And i do apologize for not being long winded as you guys. I cannot force myself to type that much. Lord knows i have tried.

It's hard explaining things sometimes. Just as it's hard to give opinions in long sentences.

... What?

Wait, that came out wrong...

 

[Demi-fiend]

Wait, that came out wrong...

I should have known better than think that you had actually gone rogue. That's what I get for being suspicious all the time. Looks like I've earned myself a Force Choke.

 

[Chancey289]

The one who beats them both. This fight's over.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

2. we a specifically discussing DMC Vergil so DMC rules apply to him. DMC has been show to have a higher base power level than DmC ( just compare the abilities and accomplishments of the two versions of Mundus) so a strong DMC universe character is going to be stronger than a strong DmC character.

But Vergil was defeated by Mundus...and Dante ultimately became way more powerful than him...what with Vergil being dead and all.

And once again, how to we quantify this "base power" across both characters...?

Both of them have high speed regen, but DMC3Vergil regen would be higher.

This makes no sense. On what basis can you claim that Vergil has a greater regenerative capability? At all points in-game, Vergil never regenerates vitality unless he's in DT, and when he does, it's to the same per-tick regen as Dante's. When DmC Dante uses his regen from DT, it generates more per-tick than DT regen in the classics.

Put simply, DmC regen > DMC regen. This is just a straight up fact. It's something that people actually complained about with DmC, that DT recovers too much vitality.

In DmC the humans are more weak than in DMC

How can you possibly come to conclusion like that...?

For example we never saw Kat do any big feat. She is intelligent and she could probably use a gun well, but she did not display fast speed or brute force or super natural abilities.

Or...you know...it could be because Kat didn't devote her entire life to honing her body to become fit for combat against demons, like Lady did. Seriously...you're comparing a non-combatant teenage psychic to a tough-as-nails chick who trained herself to fight something more powerful than her.

Hence why in DmC the saying "We are nephilim, the only ones that can slay the demon king". Because NTDante and Vergil are only ones who can match the capabilities of Mundus with ease. And since the world was being controlled by mundus, destroying the hellgate and using a F15 jetplane to bomb Mundus would not be ideal.
So humans could kill Mundus if they were lucky. But they were not, the world was again controlled by Mundus, and it would be hard for them to get the hellgate sealed off.

Oh god...there's so much wrong with that. The Hell Gate isn't some physical thing that could be bombed, it's a magical portal that needed to be closed by the Yamato. You could tear down everything around the building an the Hell Gate would still be standing, probably because it's not something that's physically there. They've got it all framed up like a pretty li'l picture, but the frame isn't necessary.

Plus - NTDante didn't kill MCMundus. NTVergil didn't kill MCMundus. 1 Nephilim did not kill MCMundus.
TWO DID!

Before NTVergil appeared - the 1 nephilim - NTDante was being destroyed by MCMundus.

Narp. Dante was still the one that dealt the killing blow. Vergil just set him up for it. You make it sound like they had to combine their powers, stab him at the same time, or perform some fusion dance to be strong enough to beat him. Y'know what Vergil did for most of the fight with Mundus? Flailed around inside Megatron grappling with Mundus's soul.

Sure, they worked together to do it, but ultimately, just like Dante said, he did it.

And so what if "Nephilims are only one who can kill demon kings"? DMC mundus after defeated by Spardfa and his son Dante, never died. While DmC Mundus died.
That says how strong DMC Mundus is.

Sure, Dante set Mundus packing. But Vergil didn't. Vergil is the dude in this fight, not his brother. None of Dante's feats account for anything that Vergil can do.

But it's funny how you tilt the scales to say that DmC Mundus wasn't as powerful, resulting in Dante not being as powerful, but we could also tilt 'em the other way, where Mundus had to be pretty dang powerful, and by result Dante is more so. Hell, classic Mundus didn't wasn't even killed by Dante, considering his whole "I will return" spiel, whereas in the DmC universe, Dante literally murdered the demon king - he sliced his soul in half.

SUMMARY OF MY ARGUMENTS of why DMC3V>NTDante:
+ Higher regeneration

Nope

+ Son of a Sparda that defeated a stronger Mundus

Vergil never defeated Mundus. Dante did, thanks to embracing his human side - something Vergil refused to do

+ Faster speed

Still totally debatable, as hand-speed does not in any way equal overall speed

+ DMC3 Vergil achieved DT before original Dante

So...? Both Dante's achieved DT after their brothers, and still cleaned their clocks

+ Seems like NTVergil that NTDante fought had not achieved DT

Doppelganger was his DT, it even healed him during their final battle. But great job paying attention

+ DMC3 Vergil losing to DMC3 Dante was just a plot mechanism. This X vs Y is matter of power not reason for fighting. DMC3 Dante won against DMC3 Vergil because his cause for fighting gave him the spirit to endure more.
This is something that constantly happens in anime and in other stories.

So, if we're taking plot (and by proxy story) into consideration, then you're also going to have to acknowledge things that Dante did in cutscenes...

After Vergil was defeated by Dante at end of DMC3, he could still walk, in contrast to Dante who collapsed after he awakened DT.

Yeah, it's not like Dante had just gotten grievously impaled by his own sword after a tiring battle. There's also probably some shock involved with unleashing DT for the first time that also took its toll on Dante's body.

Then again...what in the hell does this even matter...?

If you apply this X vs Y in a situation where Kat is in danger and DMC3Vergil is the villain that isclose to hurting her, then yes NTDante would probably win.
Because NTDante has something that makes him push his own limits. Kat.

But if you do the same thing, where NTDante is someone who helped killing EVa, the mother of Vergil, then DMC3 Vergil would cut NTDante into shreds.

Without any "causes", DMC3V wins.

Usually these fights have nothing to do with any outside influence, and it's all just shoving the two characters into big empty space and having them go at it for the sake of going at it.

Despite this, most of what you said is still incredibly debatable.

I know one thing, Sparda couldn't because she was to weak. That is why MCMundus did what he did to him.
As for Eva , i don't know, maybe she was expelled from Heaven and abandoned for partnering with a demon?
Thats only logical assumption i can make.
Even if she wasn't expelled, why would the angels go to war with MCMundus for?

Infact just like how MCMundus felt about Blood Brother Sparda partnering with a angel, the other angels probably felt the same.

Mundus wanted to punish Sparda for his betrayal. It's really no different than life in prison, except Mundus also killed Eva, so he had the unfortunate benefit of living an eternity in torment, knowing that he was alive and the love of his life wasn't.

Indeed. But are you telling me that because Nephilims could do that, then that means they were only one who can kill MCMundus? There are other demons you know, NTSparda, was a demon.
Plus though it may not be natural for angels to warp into Limbo, it would be naive to think there aren't angels who can access Limbo.

Limbo is a demon dimension. No one can enter it without a demon's influence, that's the entire point of why a Nephilim's ability to travel freely between worlds made them so important.

Whatever he did, my point is, if conditions were met. The Hellgate were sealed, and MCMundus were bombed by F15 planes, would he die? Do you know that for certain?
Because i think he would.

Closing the Hell Gate made him mortal in the human world, but he was still the friggin' demon king. Look what he did in the real world

Yes, if no angels or demons attacked MCMundus. But your bringing up this statement about nephilims as if it's an argument for NTDante being stronger than DMC3Vergil.
Once DMC3Vergil enters DmC universe, he is the third person counting NTVergil and NTDante to slay a demon king.
So really that statement has little value because being only ones who can kill MCMundus among the humans is not a feat.

Vergil did not kill a demon king. Never.

And if you think other demons or angels can't defeat MCMundus...then i'm afraid you will be mistaken.

Wow - source? Because aaaaaaaaaall information points to Nephilim being the only things that can kill a demon king, since...y'know...that's what everyone and everything in DmC says regarding the matter.

I am not making a point about his intelligence level. You said NTDante was defeating MCMundus mostly by himself. That's not true. Before NTVergil stabbed MCMundus, NTDante eyes were in his head. A clear sign of pain. And NTVergil helped out during the battle afterwards too.

Then why are you ruling out NTVergil killing MCMundus?

Vergil helped Dante in a few ways, but ultimately it was all Dante that killed Mundus. We played the battle. It wasn't a tag-team battle like Dante+Vergil vs Arkham, it was literally just Dante against Mundus in DmC.

MCMundus seems weaker than DMCMundus. MCMundus died. When a older Dante (older than NTDante) fought Mundus (in DMC1), he couldn't kill him even with help from Trish.

I could just as easily say that maybe classic Dante wasn't powerful enough to completely destroy Mundus. In fact, I did say that, somewhere up there...

Afraid you don't have much of a argument if you think this. Dante did not achieve Devil Trigger before Vergil, and you don't even think hes equal to Dante?

Again with this, what does it matter when someone got their DT...?

DMC3Dante regens better.

Still no.

Throughout DMC, it has been shown many times that Dante has high regeneration. Infact here is a scene where the mood is not "action":
This scene does not have any rocket surfing or demon head spinning, just a serious scene
Neither does this one

The night after NTDante left the club, two strippers came with him and they had sex, next morning you see scratch wounds on his back. Must been from the strippers. Anyway, he had slept for at least 2 hours, yet he did not recover those scratches.

That's all played for cool points...and it's also Dante, who is not at all the character you should be documenting.

And hey~ Right after Dante gets Mundus' grubby little hands out of his chest towards the end of DmC, he seems right as rain mere seconds later. So...

Speed and reflexes, DMC3Vergil has both of them. Anyway are you telling me that you have a opinion that NTDante is much faster than DMC3Vergil?
If so, can't see it anywhere. But what i can see from DMC3Vergil is:
1, 2, 3

Again with this undefined speed. Vergil's speed swinging Yamato is much faster than his actual movement speed.

Regeneration helps you survive, the one with better regeneration will last longer.

From that simplicity, Dante wins out, because, as I've mentioned before, Dante's regen speed is faster.

My opinion is that DMC3Vergil is stronger than NTDante. I can't prove it to a significant degree. But i realize that DMC3Dante has higher regeneration than NTDante.
And regeneration is important.

Your opinion doesn't equal fact, and so far we've been trying to toss out actual facts for this discussion. And DMC Dante is not part of any of this. It's strictly between DmC Dante, and classic Vergil.

 

[Sieghart]

No, DMC 3 Dante does regen better. The fact that when he gets stabbed many times and there is literally no wound when the object gets pulled out is high regeneration. That is a feat. However, when DMC 3 Vergil or DMC 3 Dante stamina decreases, the regeneration capabilities also decreases. DmC Dante doesn't have that much impressive regenerative feat as far as i remember.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I'd call that the developers not bothering to create models for wounds on bodies, and even on clothing, except for the slight cosmetic damage to Dante's sleeve and coattail in DMC3.

Save for dismemberment like Beowulf's head, no wounds are ever shown in the classic series, from what I can remember. Just blood to cover up the clipping of two different models.

NT gets credit for actually bothering to show an actual wound heal in DmC, instead of making the characters just try to act like they're injured and then gradually act fine moments later.

 

[Sieghart]

I'd call that the developers not bothering to create models for wounds on bodies, and even on clothing, except for the slight cosmetic damage to Dante's sleeve and coattail in DMC3.

Save for dismemberment like Beowulf's head, no wounds are ever shown in the classic series, from what I can remember. Just blood to cover up the clipping of two different models.

NT gets credit for actually bothering to show an actual wound heal in DmC, instead of making the characters just try to act like they're injured and then gradually act fine moments later.

But those are still feats that was supported by the Anime. Plus, the wounds in DmC is not even that impressive compared to the classic series.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

There's no point in the anime where we ever get a clear shot of a wound without clothing covering it, though, is there...?

And the wounds Dante healed in DmC weren't supposed to be "impressive," but just show that it can be done :/

But, ultimately, what the hell does it matter what classic Dante can do...? He's not Vergil.

 

[Sieghart]

And the wounds Dante healed in DmC weren't supposed to be "impressive," but just show that it can be done :/

But the fact that the Old Dante have taken more damage such as being stabbed, walking like nothing while being stabbed and was able to survive after being stabbed in the heart by his own sword is the fact that the feat of regenerating of old dante or specifically DMC 3 Dante is way impressive and we can conclude that the regeneration of Old dante is better. Feats are Feats god of guns.

But, ultimately, what the hell does it matter what classic Dante can do...? He's not Vergil.

lol can't argue with that.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

This makes no sense. On what basis can you claim that Vergil has a greater regenerative capability? At all points in-game, Vergil never regenerates vitality unless he's in DT, and when he does, it's to the same per-tick regen as Dante's. When DmC Dante uses his regen from DT, it generates more per-tick than DT regen in the classics.

Put simply, DmC regen > DMC regen. This is just a straight up fact. It's something that people actually complained about with DmC, that DT recovers too much vitality.

On basis of the story and cutscenes relevant to the story. Dante before awakening his demonic powers regenerated faster than NTDante. He was shot in the head, and didn't care much for it.
NTDante on other hand couldn't regenerate shallow scratch wounds,presumably from the two strippers, after sleep. And i assume he had slept at least 2 hours.

Plus original Dante who had not awakened his devil trigger lost to Vergil with a significant difference in power. Plus the fact that Vergil awakened his demonic power before Dante.
So on this basis, i believe NTDante's regeneration is weaker than original Dante and Vergil.

How can you possibly come to conclusion like that...?

Lady is pretty strong for a human.

But i suppose there can be humans like here in DmC. My impression is that many humans in DmC were weak. Even in "The Order" was a bunch of weak scientists. I didn't see a single male or female human rebel that displayed great strength or speed. I am talking about that though, not intelligence.

Or...you know...it could be because Kat didn't devote her entire life to honing her body to become fit for combat against demons, like Lady did. Seriously...you're comparing a non-combatant teenage psychic to a tough-as-nails chick who trained herself to fight something more powerful than her.

Ok, let me compare to other humans in DmC.

Generic scientist: Weak
Random humans: Weak

Is there anyone else for me to compare to? My point was not to say Kat was weak or something else, but that humans are weak. Whether that be DMC or DmC. But my observation is that in DMC they are stronger based on Mary.

Oh god...there's so much wrong with that. The Hell Gate isn't some physical thing that could be bombed, it's a magical portal that needed to be closed by the Yamato. You could tear down everything around the building an the Hell Gate would still be standing, probably because it's not something that's physically there. They've got it all framed up like a pretty li'l picture, but the frame isn't necessary.

I see.

Narp. Dante was still the one that dealt the killing blow. Vergil just set him up for it. You make it sound like they had to combine their powers, stab him at the same time, or perform some fusion dance to be strong enough to beat him. Y'know what Vergil did for most of the fight with Mundus? Flailed around inside Megatron grappling with Mundus's soul.

Sure, they worked together to do it, but ultimately, just like Dante said, he did it.

So NTVergil stabbing MCMundus to save NTDante never happened? I never said they had to combine their powers, thats your thoughts.
They worked together and they killed MCMundus.

Sure, Dante set Mundus packing. But Vergil didn't. Vergil is the dude in this fight, not his brother. None of Dante's feats account for anything that Vergil can do.

But it's funny how you tilt the scales to say that DmC Mundus wasn't as powerful, resulting in Dante not being as powerful, but we could also tilt 'em the other way, where Mundus had to be pretty dang powerful, and by result Dante is more so. Hell, classic Mundus didn't wasn't even killed by Dante, considering his whole "I will return" spiel, whereas in the DmC
universe, Dante literally murdered the demon king - he sliced his soul in half.

How old were Vergil in DMC3?
How old were Dante in DMC1?
How old were NTDante in DmC?
What had occured before Vergil charged towards Mundus in DMC3?

Nope

Your counter argument is very convincing.

Vergil never defeated Mundus. Dante did, thanks to embracing his human side - something Vergil refused to do

That was not my point. My point was that Sparda in DMC defeated Mundus, while in DmC, MCMundus imprisoned NTSparda.

Still totally debatable, as hand-speed does not in any way equal overall speed

I have looked at beowulf scene, and you say it's teleportation, i assume based on gameplay, and i say it's speed. I don't take gameplay into consideration much when evaluating power of a character. Perhaps if there is a logical reason that invites me to do so, i would, but that would be a exception.

So...? Both Dante's achieved DT after their brothers, and still cleaned their clocks

Someone who awakens their herritage sooner is power wise better.

Doppelganger was his DT, it even healed him during their final battle. But great job paying attention

Sorry, i expected to see a devil not a clone.

So, if we're taking plot (and by proxy story) into consideration, then you're also going to have to acknowledge things that Dante did in cutscenes...

Have i said i wouldn't?

Yeah, it's not like Dante had just gotten grievously impaled by his own sword after a tiring battle. There's also probably some shock involved with unleashing DT for the first time that also took its toll on Dante's body.

Then again...what in the hell does this even matter...?

Valid points. But do you get mine? Vergil was still standing after a critical slash.

Usually these fights have nothing to do with any outside influence, and it's all just shoving the two characters into big empty space and having them go at it for the sake of going at it.

Despite this, most of what you said is still incredibly debatable.

My point with what i said is that there are no cause that they fight for. So what matters is raw power. And Vergil has that. I don''t look at Dante and Vergil and think one is much stronger than the other. Dante fights with his heart, Vergil less with that.
And emotions is what in my opinion made NTDante and Dante defeat their brothers.

Though NTVergil came off as pretty weak if you ask me.

Mundus wanted to punish Sparda for his betrayal. It's really no different than life in prison, except Mundus also killed Eva, so he had the unfortunate benefit of living an eternity in torment, knowing that he was alive and the love of his life wasn't.

That's not relevant to what i was replying to.

Limbo is a demon dimension. No one can enter it without a demon's influence, that's the entire point of why a Nephilim's ability to travel freely between worlds made them so important.

That's fine, but i do believe there may be an angel who is like Agnus, who then knows how to get into this dimension.

Closing the Hell Gate made him mortal in the human world, but he was still the friggin' demon king. Look what he did in the real world

Whatever he did is besides whati was talking about. I said if humans were lucky and bombed MCMundus alot - it would probably work pretty good.
MCMundus can destroy a city, but so can a nuclear bomb.

Vergil did not kill a demon king. Never.

Really? NTVergil and NTDante defeating MCMundus together, and your reducing it to NTDante doing that?
Are you serious?

Plus DMCMundus never died, but DmC Mundus did.

Wow - source? Because aaaaaaaaaall information points to Nephilim being the only things that can kill a demon king, since...y'know...that's what everyone and everything in DmC says regarding the matter.

Because you have seen all the angels and other demons. Therefor you can conclude only nephilims can.
The person who said only a nephilim can defeat a demon king, is NTVergil. And you assume that he knows everything right? He has lived - around 20 years, mean while there are angels and demons on both sides that he has not met.
And without meeting angels and other demons, NTVergil concludes "Yep, we're only ones".

Vergil helped Dante in a few ways, but ultimately it was all Dante that killed Mundus. We played the battle. It wasn't a tag-team battle like Dante+Vergil vs Arkham, it was literally just Dante against Mundus in DmC.

Gameplay>useless.
Plus did that gameplay you base things on show you what was happening inside MCMundus's core?
Does it tell you the implications of a intruder inside this core?

It doesn't. Yet you conclude that 1 nephilim was killing MCMundus off all by himself. Up until NTVergil showed up, he was being destroyed.
Then he went into a pile of crap that didnt do as much compared to his human form.

I could just as easily say that maybe classic Dante wasn't powerful enough to completely destroy Mundus. In fact, I did say that, somewhere up there...

If that was the case Mundus would have defeated him.

Again with this, what does it matter when someone got their DT...?

Quick learner.

Still no.

That's all played for cool points...and it's also Dante, who is not at all the character you should be documenting.

And hey~ Right after Dante gets Mundus' grubby little hands out of his chest towards the end of DmC, he seems right as rain mere seconds later. So...

Dante is Vergil's brother. And if they are both demons, at the most Dante's regeneration will be slightly higher than Vergils.
As for that chest damage, NTDante couldn't regen scrach wounds.
After Devil trigger, he regens faster.

Again with this undefined speed. Vergil's speed swinging Yamato is much faster than his actual movement speed.

Undefined? He moved from point A to point B quickly and slashed with his katana before landing.

From that simplicity, Dante wins out, because, as I've mentioned before, Dante's regen speed is faster.

Really? He couldn't regen scratch wounds after 2 hours of sleep, and your saying he has higher regen..?

Your opinion doesn't equal fact, and so far we've been trying to toss out actual facts for this discussion. And DMC Dante is not part of any of this. It's strictly between DmC Dante, and classic Vergil.

I use Dante to try to get a sense of how high Vergil's regeneration is like.
And it's safe to assume he has around same level of regeneration.

And as i proved, NTDante has weaker regen.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I guess I was ignored...or she just accepted I was right.:troll:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

On basis of the story and cutscenes relevant to the story. Dante before awakening his demonic powers regenerated faster than NTDante. He was shot in the head, and didn't care much for it.
NTDante on other hand couldn't regenerate shallow scratch wounds,presumably from the two strippers, after sleep. And i assume he had slept at least 2 hours.

And yet, later on in DmC Dante himself took a barrage of high-powered rounds (probably 5.56 or higher) from assault rifles and kept on trucking. Lady's shots to the head were from a .45 pistol...or wait...is the Browning HP a 9mm...? I forget...

Soooo...we're back to square one on that, really.

Plus original Dante who had not awakened his devil trigger lost to Vergil with a significant difference in power. Plus the fact that Vergil awakened his demonic power before Dante.
So on this basis, i believe NTDante's regeneration is weaker than original Dante and Vergil.

There's still no basis for this to apply anything for a comparison to DmC. In what way does when someone awakened have any connection to regenerative capabilities...?

Lady is pretty strong for a human.

But i suppose there can be humans like here in DmC. My impression is that many humans in DmC were weak. Even in "The Order" was a bunch of weak scientists. I didn't see a single male or female human rebel that displayed great strength or speed. I am talking about that though, not intelligence.

You're still comparing non-combatants to a combatant who trained herself specifically to fight demons. Even then, she wins out against mooks, and mostly due of having a LOT of firepower to make up for her complete lack of strength.

Ok, let me compare to other humans in DmC.

Generic scientist: Weak
Random humans: Weak

Is there anyone else for me to compare to? My point was not to say Kat was weak or something else, but that humans are weak. Whether that be DMC or DmC. But my observation is that in DMC they are stronger based on Mary.

The problem is you're still comparing to the only humans you've seen in DmC, and none of them are anything like Lady in terms of background. If there had been some sort of equivalent character we could get more of a gauge on it, but...we can't, because they're isn't :/

So NTVergil stabbing MCMundus to save NTDante never happened?

That falls under the whole "helping" category that Vergil was doing. You'll notice it's slightly different from the actual "Killing Mundus" category that Dante did.

I never said they had to combine their powers, thats your thoughts.
They worked together and they killed MCMundus.

Not realy. Vergil helped out at a few points, but Dante was still the one who did like...all the legwork. Vergil saved Dante by stabbing Mundus in the back, but that didn't kill him. He killed Kyle Ryder, but...anyone could have done that.

How old were Vergil in DMC3?
How old were Dante in DMC1?
How old were NTDante in DmC?
What had occured before Vergil charged towards Mundus in DMC3?

DOUBLE RAINBOW! WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!

Sorry, I thought we were asking random questions that had no point.

That was not my point. My point was that Sparda in DMC defeated Mundus, while in DmC, MCMundus imprisoned NTSparda.

And...? This is all narrative. Classic Sparda imprisoned Mundus and cut off the demon world from the human world. DmC Sparda said "f#ck it, I'm in love," and left to be with Eva, turning his back on demonkind.

Random demons sought out Eva and the twins in the classics. Mundus personally went after Sparda and Eva in DmC, and then punished them for crossing them.

What bearing does this have on anything?

I have looked at beowulf scene, and you say it's teleportation, i assume based on gameplay, and i say it's speed. I don't take gameplay into consideration much when evaluating power of a character. Perhaps if there is a logical reason that invites me to do so, i would, but that would be a exception.

Vergil did a clearly visible spiraling backflip from the floor onto Beowulf's head while swinging Yamato as fast as he usually does with iaido. Vergil's in-game Air Tricks (teleportation) show no movement from start to destination, and are denoted by that blur, and we never see Vergil use his Air Tricks in cutscenes

Someone who awakens their herritage sooner is power wise better.

Right, because Vergil is the most powerful character in DMC, and not his brother Dante (who awakened later than Vergil) who surpassed him in pretty much every way.

Sorry, i expected to see a devil not a clone.

That's how Devil Triggers work in DmC.

Valid points. But do you get mine? Vergil was still standing after a critical slash.

When? At the end of DMC3? He was preeeeetty messed up by that slash, he could barely stand, given that he was stumbling around and holding his side.

That's fine, but i do believe there may be an angel who is like Agnus, who then knows how to get into this dimension.

You can't just make up characters and apply their abilities to a universe in order to call it all into question :/ You can believe whatever you want, but you can't bring it to the table like it's a fact that we have to dispute.

Whatever he did is besides whati was talking about. I said if humans were lucky and bombed MCMundus alot - it would probably work pretty good.

It'd work pretty good for ****ing off the (still immortal) demon king, but it wouldn't do anything else, because the Hell Gate would still be open.

MCMundus can destroy a city, but so can a nuclear bomb.

And yet a nuke isn't a person...if a person can do what a nuke can, that...makes them pretty damn scary.

Really? NTVergil and NTDante defeating MCMundus together, and your reducing it to NTDante doing that?
Are you serious?

I was referring to where you said that classic Vergil would have been the third to kill a demon king, when classic Vergil never killed a demon king.

Plus DMCMundus never died, but DmC Mundus did.

This goes right back to the idea that classic Mundus was stronger and couldn't be killed while DmC Mundus could, whereas it could just as easily be skewed as classic Dante not being strong enough to kill Mundus, while DmC Dante was strong enough to completely end Mundus.

It could go back and forth forever, really :/

Because you have seen all the angels and other demons. Therefor you can conclude only nephilims can.
The person who said only a nephilim can defeat a demon king, is NTVergil. And you assume that he knows everything right? He has lived - around 20 years, mean while there are angels and demons on both sides that he has not met.
And without meeting angels and other demons, NTVergil concludes "Yep, we're only ones".

There's also all the junk Phineas had to say on the matter, emphasizing being able to walk freely between worlds because it's something that no demon or angel can do. Then there's the prophecies about how only Nephilim can do it, as well as the evidence that in the 9000 years of Mundus' rule no one else has succeeded in killing him. Oh...and because Mundus had any and all other Nephilim hunted to extinction because they were his one and only threat.

You're trying to fill in a vague blank by making up crap that does not and can not change how things are.

Gameplay>useless.
Plus did that gameplay you base things on show you what was happening inside MCMundus's core?

It did actually, we kept getting little clips of Vergil inside the building monster grappling with Mundy's soul, and not really doing much other than trading inconsequential blows.

Does it tell you the implications of a intruder inside this core?

I can't imagine the implications were that bad considering it was Mundus who consciously decided to suck Vergil into the core to get battered around by the Mundy soul.

It doesn't. Yet you conclude that 1 nephilim was killing MCMundus off all by himself. Up until NTVergil showed up, he was being destroyed.

Kyle Rider =/= Mundus. Vergil stabbed the human vessel of Mundus

If that was the case Mundus would have defeated him.

There's a difference between defeating Mundus and sending the soul back to Hell (which Dante did in DMC1), and completely ending a entity as a whole, so it no longer ceases to exist.

Dante is Vergil's brother. And if they are both demons, at the most Dante's regeneration will be slightly higher than Vergils.
As for that chest damage, NTDante couldn't regen scrach wounds.

Except Dante can regen scratch wounds, and he did. There's also the aforementioned taking several assault rifle rounds like they weren't even happening, along with being perfectly fine seconds after having fingers dug into his chest, so....

Undefined? He moved from point A to point B quickly and slashed with his katana before landing.

Doing a backflip that anyone can do with enough practice. The only inhuman speed we ever see is from Vergil's iaido, and that's strictly hand movement.

Really? He couldn't regen scratch wounds after 2 hours of sleep, and your saying he has higher regen..?

Forgetting the assault rifle rounds and chest-fingers he shrugged off. Also the documentation of vitality in DmC regening faster during DT than it does in the classic series, but that's gameplay, and you're all *boo* *hiss* gameplay, even though it's the greatest documentation of what the character is actually capable of :/

I use Dante to try to get a sense of how high Vergil's regeneration is like.
And it's safe to assume he has around same level of regeneration.

And as i proved, NTDante has weaker regen.

You didn't prove a daaaaaaamn thing...

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Here is the thing, you say NTDante has higher regen, yet it is implied that he slept at least 2 hours after stripper sex, he wakes up with scratch wounds. So question is, who gave him those scratch wounds.

Strippers, sex, nails, girls...
Strippers?
But wait...didnt he have sex with them past midnight?

So he slept that much and he didnt regenerate those wounds.
Later after he awakened Devil trigger he took shots to the back yes, but that was after devil trigger.
Before that, he couldn't regen those shallow wounds.

I don't think Vergil who is far more skilled than NTDante, will loose to him. And i proved NTDante had weak regen without DT. I dont need to prove that DMC3Vergil has weak or high regen before DT, because he outmatched his brother with a significant amount when facing him first time.
And he is also the son of Sparda, so of course his regen speed will be roughly the same.

NTVergil on other hand, he got stabbed by NTDante, just like his brother...he displayed weak regen. He teleported somewhere, and then collapsed on a grave or something.

The only argument seems to be against DMC3Vergil is "Dante defeated him, so can NTDante".

And "NTDante defeated a demon king".

What a weak demon king. Was a building that could move. He was stronger in the human form.


Also your using gameplay, i told you i dont do that.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I guess I was ignored...or she just accepted I was right.:troll:

You didn't prove a daaaaaaamn thing...

Does she ever? :/

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Here is the thing, you say NTDante has higher regen, yet it is implied that he slept at least 2 hours after stripper sex, he wakes up with scratch wounds. So question is, who gave him those scratch wounds.

Strippers, sex, nails, girls...
Strippers?
But wait...didnt he have sex with them past midnight?

So he slept that much and he didnt regenerate those wounds.
Later after he awakened Devil trigger he took shots to the back yes, but that was after devil trigger.
Before that, he couldn't regen those shallow wounds.

But he diiiid regenerate those shallow wounds, within a second. It's not that it took him two hours (completely arbitrary, beeteedubs) to heal from scratches, it's that he didn't instantly heal until that time had passed. He still instantly healed the scratches.

Who knows why they only healed once he woke up. I'd have to say for cool points, so they could show the healing process happening, without trying to show it happening during a sex scene.

I don't think Vergil who is far more skilled than NTDante, will loose to him. And i proved NTDante had weak regen without DT.

You really didn't prove anything, because when the time came, any and all wounds that Dante incurred healed instantaneously, and didn't bother him at all. Furthermore, who cares how long it took for him to instigate his healing process at the beginning of the story? These theoretical fights take the character as they are from the endgame.

I dont need to prove that DMC3Vergil has weak or high regen before DT, because he outmatched his brother with a significant amount when facing him first time.
And he is also the son of Sparda, so of course his regen speed will be roughly the same.

NTVergil on other hand, he got stabbed by NTDante, just like his brother...he displayed weak regen. He teleported somewhere, and then collapsed on a grave or something.

What does this have to do with aaaaaaanything?! Vergil was near death and could barely stand at the end of his final clash with Dante - from a stomach gash! An older and more powerful Dante lost consciousness for a moment when he got impaled by Alastor!

You wanna know what the congruent thread is with this sh!t? Everything done in cutscenes is done for dramatic effect or to be super-cool-beans-awesome! There's almost no consistency at all!

The only argument seems to be against DMC3Vergil is "Dante defeated him, so can NTDante".

No, there's also the arguments against Vergil's supposed incredibly fast movement speed, and how much strength he actually has.

And "NTDante defeated a demon king".

What a weak demon king. Was a building that could move. He was stronger in the human form.

What? How by any stretch of the imagination was Mundus stronger as Kyle Rider...? Human Mundy wasn't breathing fire, dropping meteors, or crushing buildings the way Building Mundus was.

And your definition of "weak" is so skewed by bias it's not even funny. All I'm getting from you is that you don't believe that DmC Dante is strong, so anything he defeats has to be weaker than the already weak Dante :/

Also your using gameplay, i told you i dont do that.

Then you might as well keep your biased opinions to yourself, because you're the only one who has been doing that. Everyone else has been discussing gameplay and cutscenes, because both are important to figuring out exactly what's congruent. There's such a disconnect between the things we see and what we play that we have to find the common thread to figure anything out...

 

[Demi-fiend]

You're wrong, TwoXAcross. Just accept that fact and realize that we Purists were right all along. :troll:
Lack of decent evidence notwithstanding...

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Ok, f this. I am done discussing. Excuse my language, its a way to express, something.
That wasn't regen - that was a healing ability.

That ability that helped him recover is healing. The difference between regen and healing is regen is something that happens automatically, it's not something you controll.
NTDante using a ability to get Rebellion to appear, notice the tatoo glows
NTDante using a healing ability, notice the tattoo glows


Also you asked me on basis i debated things, and i told you as it was. If you want me to talk on basis of the gameplay? Go take a look at how fast DMC3 Vergil is in DT.
Player needs to use Quicksilver to effectively kill him.