Dmc dante vs DMC3 vergil

[TWOxACROSS]

Couple things there...

2. the grounds that they regularly do things their DmC equivalents have not been shown to be capable of

Because they had the benefit of being in more than one game, directed by people who wanted pure, over-the-top action. You could easily extrapolate that the DmC counterparts could also do some crazy sh!t, if the narrative called for it.

and their father is the stronger version of Sparda (DMC Mundus is far stronger than DmC Mundus but DMC Sparda won and DmC Sparda and DmC Eva together lost)

There's not really much proof that classic Sparda is stronger than Sparda from another universe. There's not much that says classic Mundus is "far stronger" either, considering that maybe a) DmC Sparda never tried to kill Mundus, and b) Mundus is still immortal thanks to the Hell Gate. For all we know, Sparda could be just as or stronger than his classic counterpart, but he went up against something that literally could not die.

And Sparda and Eva didn't didn't fight Mundus together. Eva distracted him at Paradise while Sparda hid the twins away. He was more concerned about his own children that his wife gave her life for.

3. Vergil is significantly stronger than DmC's poor excuse for a demon king. sure DmC Mundus has a few impressive looking tricks from manipulating limbo but other than that the only thing he has is the hellgate giving him fake immortality.

I wish I could make bold and totally biased claims like that. There's no way to really know if classic Vergil could defeat Mundus, but I'd have to say noooo, considering the whole immortality thing, among whatever other immense powers he might be able to suck from the Hell Gate.

4. DMC Dante beat DMC Vergil because he accepted his human side and Vergil didn't and the DMC sons of Sparda don't need training they seem to be experts with every weapon the moment they get it. ( just watch the cutscenes after Dante gets weapons, no matter what he ends up with he always knows what to do with it.)

And that's why we never have to spend Red Orbs to buy all the other abilities for a new weapon, yeahp.

This matters so little. If you, by some miracle, always knew how to walk, like, straight from the womb, and I learned to walk like a regula'-ass baby, in the end, you wouldn't be able to tell who was better at walking...

5. DmC Dante beating DmC Vergil ( who was shown to have always been weaker than DmC Dante) is not a reason why he should be able to beat DMC Vergil ( who is shown to be significantly more capable than DMC Dante, easily wins on the first try and only loses in the end because of his refusal to accept his human side) even if you deny the differences in power level between the two Dantes there is no question that the two Vergils are not equal.

The term "equal" is very skewed, and difficult to quantify. It's entirely possible that while DmC Vergil is weaker than his brother, it could totally be because Dante is way stronger than him, and could by some stretch of the imagination be stronger than both of the classic Sons of Sparda, too. As in, maybe DmC Vergil is just as strong as classic Vergil, but DmC Dante is just stronger than all of them.

See, the scales can tip both ways.

Oh, and I'd argue that DmC Dante might be stronger than his classic, even just in brute strength, given the things he's punched around with his bare hands, and to great effect. Then there's what he's done with Eryx on...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Super Saiyan transformations are so awesome though. Man, when I was a kid watching DBZ, seeing Goku turn into Super Saiyan for the first time was like my generation's moon landing.

We were all talking about it the next day and freaking the f#ck out.

"Did you see how he...?"
"Yeah! And then his hair!"
"Oh man, and the yelling!"
"There was fire!"

 

[EvilX-81]

This is a trap a lot of new writers (and even some seasoned ones) fall into. Give someone some super power, and then suddenly it changes the entire tone of something. It's like when some super-cheese tactic in a fighter is figured out, and suddenly the meta revolves specifically around that for winning, at the expense of all other skill and variety the game provides.

The bigger issue is giving a character something grand to overcome adversity, or to be a very dangerous threat, and not putting enough checks on it to balance everything out. Stuff like "My will is stronger!" is a huge cop-out, and can only work maybe...once or twice for one character, otherwise it get's really hackneyed. Look at DBZ, making Super Saiyans so powerful, and then having to create new foes that were stronger than them, only for enemies to be too strong, warranting another level of Super Saiyan that allows them to beat the bad guys.

The same could be said for a lot of things that pull out a super mode for a character, because it either gets used as a deus ex machina too often, or it's made obsolete when everything they face becomes so out of proportion that it either makes the super mode useless, or calls for higher tiers of that super mode, which then still puts it at risk of teetering back into being a deus ex machina :/

It also becomes a problem when something drags on for waaaaaaaay longer than it should, which some anime and manga are at fault for (a lot), especially stuff like DBZ, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, etc. Jump's desire for profit stretches out and ultimately damages the narrative :/

Warning: Rambling post ahead. Proceed at your own peril.

Yea, but I love those other things. Super Saiyan levels, jutsus, the Bleach stuff (though it is currently kinda all over the place at the moment). I just hate Soifon's trick. In a way it's the inverse of what you're arguing; DBZ and the others rise in powerlevels with no ceiling, so the enemy has to be more powerful to counter it so they have to get more powerful, etc., while Soifon's 2-sting is an "I win" button, and we're constantly given reasons why she can't use it. Ontop of it, if she is on even grounds with anybody, she should automatically win due to the 2-sting power anyway if he ever gets in melee range, and that's boring. Her character ability is just... broken, and not entertaining.

You can have fun with escalating powerlevels; one of the fun things I find on Mugen is placing utterly broken characters against eachother to fight to the death cpu vs cpu. But it's another thing entirely when one of them has an instant kill move.

Naruto is disappointing, wasted potential, full stop.

While I'm at it, I don't get the "it's not regeneration, it's a healing ability" argument. Exactly what does it change? He can heal wounds as soon as he thinks about it or is conscious? What matters is the limits to the healing ability/regeneration.

Also, DBZ's Piccolo regenerates.... on command. Just sayin'.

I have to agree with Seighart about DMC3 Dante's superior healing factor; ultimately he has shown us a higher limit than DmC's regeneration in the cutscenes, so I have to give the nod to him on this. Didn't realize that DmC Dante uppercutted Mundus without Eryx though, that's impressive.

In a way though Mundus was more impressive as a human when he limbo-blasted that section of the city during The Trade. Would've been awesome to see him doing more stuff like that and then some in his full form. I was really hoping he'd adapt the city's wings to himself or something.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

1.we are talking about DMC Vergil not DmC Vergil. he is half demon half human but stronger than most full demons so his human half doesn't make much of a difference.

InncarnantDemon brought it up so I answered her. New Vergil wasn't affected by the DT of Dante because he's Nephilim. Old vergil's half demon so if it won't freeze it will affect him in some way that would handicap him.

2. the grounds that they regularly do things their DmC equivalents have not been shown to be capable of and their father is the stronger version of Sparda (DMC Mundus is far stronger than DmC Mundus but DMC Sparda won and DmC Sparda and DmC Eva together lost)

We've not even seen Sparda fight, so that's still debatable. Plus, Sparda was a demon general vs an immortal demon king who can't be killed. Plus Eva sacrificed her life to get Sparda and their kids out so we don't know how she did in lasting. I assume that after Sparda hid his kids he fought Mundus but we don't know how hard or how much of a battle was it.

3. Vergil is significantly stronger than DmC's poor excuse for a demon king. sure DmC Mundus has a few impressive looking tricks from manipulating limbo but other than that the only thing he has is the hellgate giving him fake immortality.

True, but even so, I don't see him beating NT Dante that easily. DmC Mundus, maybe. NT Dante...not so much.

4. DMC Dante beat DMC Vergil because he accepted his human side and Vergil didn't and the DMC sons of Sparda don't need training they seem to be experts with every weapon the moment they get it. ( just watch the cutscenes after Dante gets weapons, no matter what he ends up with he always knows what to do with it.)

It's the same with NT Dante. He accepted who he was and could beat Vergil just as DMC3 Dante did.

5. DmC Dante beating DmC Vergil ( who was shown to have always been weaker than DmC Dante) is not a reason why he should be able to beat DMC Vergil ( who is shown to be significantly more capable than DMC Dante, easily wins on the first try and only loses in the end because of his refusal to accept his human side) even if you deny the differences in power level between the two Dantes there is no question that the two Vergils are not equal.

Yeah, but because both Dantes ARE created to be the same power level, obviously NT Dante could beat him just as old Dante did. Plus if we're talking about NT Dante after he beat NT Vergil (Getting the white air and such) then NT Dante would definitely defeat Old Vergil.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Warning: Rambling post ahead. Proceed at your own peril.

Yea, but I love those other things. Super Saiyan levels, jutsus, the Bleach stuff (though it is currently kinda all over the place at the moment). I just hate Soifon's trick. In a way it's the inverse of what you're arguing; DBZ and the others rise in powerlevels with no ceiling, so the enemy has to be more powerful to counter it so they have to get more powerful, etc., while Soifon's 2-sting is an "I win" button, and we're constantly given reasons why she can't use it. Ontop of it, if she is on even grounds with anybody, she should automatically win due to the 2-sting power anyway if he ever gets in melee range, and that's boring. Her character ability is just... broken, and not entertaining.

You can have fun with escalating powerlevels; one of the fun things I find on Mugen is placing utterly broken characters against eachother to fight to the death cpu vs cpu. But it's another thing entirely when one of them has an instant kill move.

Naruto is disappointing, wasted potential, full stop.

Oh definitely. There's nothing that says it can't all still be entertaining, but the bigger problem is that it lacks a lot of overall depth, and making you feel invested in what's happening. Like Chancey said, Goku going Super Saiyan is still super-cool :3

I have to agree with Seighart about DMC3 Dante's superior healing factor; ultimately he has shown us a higher limit than DmC's regeneration in the cutscenes, so I have to give the nod to him on this. Didn't realize that DmC Dante uppercutted Mundus without Eryx though, that's impressive.

I still think there isn't enough "data" to document it for both cases equally. We've seen both Dante's take a whole lot of punishment, but no matter what, because classic Dante has been in four games, two novels, and an anime, he's had more impales per minute than his DmC counterpart. Like I mentioned before, it might be possible to extrapolate on what DmC Dante is capable of enduring, given what we've already seen him do, but...meeeeeh.

In a way though Mundus was more impressive as a human when he limbo-blasted that section of the city during The Trade. Would've been awesome to see him doing more stuff like that and then some in his full form. I was really hoping he'd adapt the city's wings to himself or something.

That's the thing, though. Mundy can do all that Kyle Rider did, because they are technically the same person; Kyle Rider is just the physical manifestation of Mundus, since he's keeping his soul elsewhere. Closing the Hell Gate severed Mundus' connection to it, focring his soul to remain smack-dab in the middle of the Kyle Rider vessel. The only reason we didn't have to deal with Mundus launching city-block-leveling blasts during our fight with him was because he could no longer draw a metric f#ck-ton of energy from the Hell Gate

 

[darkslayer13]

Couple things there...



Because they had the benefit of being in more than one game, directed by people who wanted pure, over-the-top action. You could easily extrapolate that the DmC counterparts could also do some crazy sh!t, if the narrative called for it.



There's not really much proof that classic Sparda is stronger than Sparda from another universe. There's not much that says classic Mundus is "far stronger" either, considering that maybe a) DmC Sparda never tried to kill Mundus, and b) Mundus is still immortal thanks to the Hell Gate. For all we know, Sparda could be just as or stronger than his classic counterpart, but he went up against something that literally could not die.

And Sparda and Eva didn't didn't fight Mundus together. Eva distracted him at Paradise while Sparda hid the twins away. He was more concerned about his own children that his wife gave her life for.



I wish I could make bold and totally biased claims like that. There's no way to really know if classic Vergil could defeat Mundus, but I'd have to say noooo, considering the whole immortality thing, among whatever other immense powers he might be able to suck from the Hell Gate.



And that's why we never have to spend Red Orbs to buy all the other abilities for a new weapon, yeahp.

This matters so little. If you, by some miracle, always knew how to walk, like, straight from the womb, and I learned to walk like a regula'-ass baby, in the end, you wouldn't be able to tell who was better at walking...




The term "equal" is very skewed, and difficult to quantify. It's entirely possible that while DmC Vergil is weaker than his brother, it could totally be because Dante is way stronger than him, and could by some stretch of the imagination be stronger than both of the classic Sons of Sparda, too. As in, maybe DmC Vergil is just as strong as classic Vergil, but DmC Dante is just stronger than all of them.

See, the scales can tip both ways.

Oh, and I'd argue that DmC Dante might be stronger than his classic, even just in brute strength, given the things he's punched around with his bare hands, and to great effect. Then there's what he's done with Eryx on...

Watsonian explanation vs Doylist explanation ( the technical terms are intradiegetic and extradiegetic but those are harder to spell)
Watsonian ( in universe): the DMC versions of characters can do more dramatic things because they are more powerful
Doylist (out of universe): the DMC versions of characters can do more dramatic things because they are in a less realistic game.

if we bring Doylist explanations into this then the discussion loses what little meaning it has.

the evidence that DMC Mundus is stronger than DmC Mundus:

DMC Mundus is definitely far stronger than his DmC equivalent.
1. DmC Mundus is a mortal made immortal by the power of the hellgate, DMC Mundus is just naturally immortal.
2. DmC Mundus makes children the normal way, DMC Mundus casually creates sentient beings with free will.
3. DmC Mundus prepares for battle by creating a giant out of nearby debris. DMC Mundus prepares for battle by creating what appears to be another universe to be the battlefield.
4. DmC Mundus is an idiot with a god complex, DMC Mundus is basically a god.

the evidence than DMC Sparda is stronger than DmC Sparda:

DMC Sparda vs. DMC Mundus and the rest of Hell: DMC Sparda wins, voluntarily seals his own power and survives for another 2000 years as the enemy of all of hell with his power sealed.
DmC Sparda vs. DmC Mundus: Mundus wins, Eva is dead, Sparda is imprisoned for all eternity, Dante is tortured by demons for most of his childhood, Mundus is ruler of the world.

the evidence that DMC Dante is stronger than DmC Dante:
DMC Dante's father is stronger + everything that happens in DMC3. maybe DmC Dante might have a advantage in brute force but DMC Dante definitely has the advantage in speed, skill, demonic power, durability etc.

the evidence that DMC Vergil is stronger than DmC Vergil:
DMC Vergil's father is stronger + DMC Vergil is the stronger twin, DmC Vergil is the weaker twin.

as to DmC Mundus' Hellgate induced immortality giving him an advantage against DMC Vergil. DMC Yamato has been shown to be able to seal hellgates from a distance, by cutting them apart, from halfway across a city, while being used by the wrong twin. i think Vergil could figure something out. and even if you don't think he could, a tactical advantage doesn't equal a higher level of power so DmC Dante and DmC Vergil being able to work together to negate DmC Mundus advantage by taking advantage of his temper to get him to do something stupid does not make DmC Dante somehow stronger than DMC Vergil.

Yeah, but because both Dantes ARE created to be the same power level, obviously NT Dante could beat him just as old Dante did. Plus if we're talking about NT Dante after he beat NT Vergil (Getting the white air and such) then NT Dante would definitely defeat Old Vergil.

the two Dantes really are not at the same power level. there is no evidence that DmC Vergil being a Nephilim is what protected him. we don't need to see DMC Sparda fight we already know the results of the only fight that matters ( and DMC Sparda beat the genuinely immortal DMC Mundus so if DmC Sparda was on the same level he would have been able to beat the fake immortal DmC Mundus). DmC Dante accepting who he is would let him win in the long run but not on the first try. ( heart is more important but power does have some value)

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Watsonian explanation vs Doylist explanation ( the technical terms are intradiegetic and extradiegetic but those are harder to spell)
Watsonian ( in universe): the DMC versions of characters can do more dramatic things because they are more powerful
Doylist (out of universe): the DMC versions of characters can do more dramatic things because they are in a less realistic game.

if we bring Doylist explanations into this then the discussion loses what little meaning it has.

There was very little meaning to begin with, because everything is so goddamn inconsistent...

the evidence that DMC Mundus is stronger than DmC Mundus:

darkslayer13 said: ↑

DMC Mundus is definitely far stronger than his DmC equivalent.​

1. DmC Mundus is a mortal made immortal by the power of the hellgate, DMC Mundus is just naturally immortal. Im/mortality is not a gauge for one's power, only whether they have the capability of dying. It does, however, create a very big problem for anyone trying to fight them​

2. DmC Mundus makes children the normal way, DMC Mundus casually creates sentient beings with free will. Siring children also does not make one weaker than another, there's also the fact that Mundus has control over all of Limbo - an entire living, breathing, veil dimension, which hey! creates sentient beings with free will!​

3. DmC Mundus prepares for battle by creating a giant out of nearby debris. DMC Mundus prepares for battle by creating what appears to be another universe to be the battlefield. DMC Mundus was in Hell, on his own turf, DmC's Mundus was not on his own turf. DmC's Mundus is actually pretty smart, not letting the one thing that can kill him trod straight through his home realm. DMC Mundus sat on a throne​

4. DmC Mundus is an idiot with a god complex, DMC Mundus is basically a god. Your bias is showing. Just because Mundy had megalomaniacal tendencies doesn't lessen his actual abilities​

Responses in bold. Most of your "evidence" is pretty flawed, and hinges on bias.

the evidence than DMC Sparda is stronger than DmC Sparda:

DMC Sparda vs. DMC Mundus and the rest of Hell: DMC Sparda wins, voluntarily seals his own power and survives for another 2000 years as the enemy of all of hell with his power sealed.
DmC Sparda vs. DmC Mundus: Mundus wins, Eva is dead, Sparda is imprisoned for all eternity, Dante is tortured by demons for most of his childhood, Mundus is ruler of the world.

Again, it doesn't matter how strong or weak Sparda may have been because he was still confronted by an immortal Mundus. Not even classic Sparda killed Mundus, he only sealed him away.

Plus, we don't really know if Sparda actually bothered to fight Mundus. He may have realized it was an exercise in futility, and just allowed himself to be captured by Mundus to draw attention away from his children. And an unwillingness to fight does not equal a lack of strength to fight.

Let's also not forget that Sparda was Mundus' right-hand in Mundy's rise to power. So Sparda still seems to have a lot of power we just haven't seen or heard of.

In all reality, the only difference between the two Spardas is that DmC didn't bother talking up Sparda as the greatest thing in the universe, and instead placed the focal point squarely on Dante being Dante, and not being the Son of Sparda.

the evidence that DMC Dante is stronger than DmC Dante:
DMC Dante's father is stronger + everything that happens in DMC3. maybe DmC Dante might have a advantage in brute force but DMC Dante definitely has the advantage in speed, skill, demonic power, durability etc.

That hinges a liiiittle too much on the vagueness of classic Sparda being stronger than the DmC counterpart (which is debatable). It also means very little, because Dante apparently surpassed his father, as did the Nephilim Dante, being a Nephilim. And how strong a parent is really isn't a proper gauge for children, because they aren't carbon copies of their fathers. A father could have impeccable balance, and a son could have the equilibrium of fall-down drunkard.

the evidence that DMC Vergil is stronger than DmC Vergil:
DMC Vergil's father is stronger + DMC Vergil is the stronger twin, DmC Vergil is the weaker twin.

Again, celebrity parentage does not qualify for adding to one's strength, and it's entirely debatable of how weak DmC Vergil may be compared to classic Vergil. Like I said before, it's possible that the Nephilim are inherently stronger than their classic counterparts, so even a weaker DmC Vergil could still be stronger than the classic. It could go on forever because there's no quantifiable way to measure sh!t like "magical power."

as to DmC Mundus' Hellgate induced immortality giving him an advantage against DMC Vergil. DMC Yamato has been shown to be able to seal hellgates from a distance, by cutting them apart, from halfway across a city, while being used by the wrong twin. i think Vergil could figure something out.

Different type of Hell Gates, that were powered by Devil Arm magic and could be destroyed by any weapon (Pandora, Gilgamesh, Lucifer, Yamato, take your pick). DMC4 Hell Gates aren't really the same as the DmC Hell Gate at all, since the former are all giant stone doorways, while the latter is actually a metaphysical portal.

and even if you don't think he could, a tactical advantage doesn't equal a higher level of power so DmC Dante and DmC Vergil being able to work together to negate DmC Mundus advantage by taking advantage of his temper to get him to do something stupid does not make DmC Dante somehow stronger than DMC Vergil.

The Nephilim got rid of his immortality by closing the Hell Gate, but Mundus will all his power was still very much a threat when he was actually fought.

the two Dante's really are not at the same power level.

Then you better get cracking on those numbers, because I sincerely would like to see how you'd quantify something as arbitrary as a "power level" between two different worlds, where any number of seen and unseen variables could play a part in the equation :/

 

[TWOxACROSS]

we don't need to see DMC Sparda fight we already know the results of the only fight that matters ( and DMC Sparda beat the genuinely immortal DMC Mundus so if DmC Sparda was on the same level he would have been able to beat the fake immortal DmC Mundus). DmC Dante accepting who he is would let him win in the long run but not on the first try. ( heart is more important but power does have some value)

Except classic Sparda didn't kill the immortal Mundus, he subdued him and sealed him off in Hell, and even classic Dante did the same. Whereas in DmC, Mundus was outright killed, never to return. Whatwrongwityou I say you he dead.

And Mundus also wasn't "fake immortal." Immortality is just immortality, where it came from doesn't matter. Plus I mentioned earlier that in DmC it's entirely possible that Sparda didn't fight Mundus. And not fighting does not equal not having the strength to fight, so...Sparda is an unknown variable as a whole, other than we know he helped Mundus rise to power, which denotes some amount of power greater than every other demon around.

Again, the parentage aspect is too debatable. Classic Sparda, nor classic Dante, killed Mundus, they sealed him away. DmC Sparda never bothered to fight Mundus. We can't get a proper gauge on stuff like that.

And ultimately has very little, to nothing to do with the two characters in this theoretical situation.

There's too much to question, because it all comes down to a lot of magical power, and we have no idea how to gauge how powerful that is. DMC magic could be stronger than DmC magic, or easily vice-versa.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Sparda is an unknown variable

That should have been my screen name. Now I need to go find a pic of DmC Sparda that isn't completely humiliating...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

What're you talking about? He's rockin' those chains like a muthafuggin' bawss.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

That should have been my screen name. Now I need to go find a pic of DmC Sparda that isn't completely humiliating...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The second one is pretty nice. All the ladies love horns and curly jew-hair.

 

[Sieghart]

But TWOxACROSS, DMC Sparda soloing the demonic army/hordes of Mundus, defeating him and saving mankind is a feat. DmC Sparda was imprison and that is his feat. Saying that DmC Sparda doesn't even bother fight Mundus or if he fights Mundus that he might defeat him is nothing more than an assumption. DMC Sparda actually had solid evidence of his powers while DmC Sparda does not.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Except that can go both ways. As I said, the absence of DmC Sparda having fought Mundus is not necessarily the lack of any actual ability to fight. He just didn't for whatever narrative reason.

Not fighting Mundus and being imprisoned isn't a feat. It's really just the lack of one. Although he clearly has a lot of potential, having been Mundus' right-hand-mang.

It's like you're saying that classic Dante surfed on a missile, but DmC Dante never did, so therefore DmC Dante can't. You're putting way too much emphasis on the lack of something, and trying to make a "didn't" into a "couldn't."

And classic Mundus didn't fight alone, it's documented in both DMC2 and DMC4 that Sparda fought alongside the humans he decided to protect. And as well all have seen with humans like Lady, they aren't exactly pushovers.

 

[Sieghart]

Except that can go both ways. As I said, the absence of DmC Sparda having fought Mundus is not necessarily the lack of any actual ability to fight. He just didn't for whatever narrative reason.
Not fighting Mundus and being imprisoned isn't a feat. It's really just the lack of one. Although he clearly has a lot of potential, having been Mundus' right-hand-mang.

That's right it wasn't in the narrative therefore it's an assumption. However, i'm not saying that DmC Sparda lack the ability to fight because like what you said, he is Mundus' right hand man and he help him rise to power. What we don't go make assumptions that "DmC sparda don't bother to fight but he is equal to DMC Sparda" When he doesn't have any feat that would make a solid evidence that he is equal to DMC Sparda.

It's like you're saying that classic Dante surfed on a missile, but DmC Dante never did, so therefore DmC Dante can't. You're putting way too much emphasis on the lack of something, and trying to make a "didn't" into a "couldn't."

But those are clearly two different cases. What you have said that "DmC sparda don't bother to fight or whatever" is an assumption into narrative stand point. We don't do that in a fanfic battle. We based on feats and feats alone. DMC Sparda was able to defeat Mundus' demonic horde/army and was able to defeat him then seal him.

And classic Mundus didn't fight alone, it's documented in both DMC2 and DMC4 that Sparda fought alongside the humans he decided to protect. And as well all have seen with humans like Lady, they aren't exactly pushovers.

You mean Classic Sparda right? Yes, but it's also stated he is the only one who battled the legion and Mundus. The Humans are probably like Otacon, which is a sidekick to Snake.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

That's right it wasn't in the narrative therefore it's an assumption. However, i'm not saying that DmC Sparda lack the ability to fight because like what you said, he is Mundus' right hand man and he help him rise to power. What we don't go make assumptions that "DmC sparda don't bother to fight but he is equal to DMC Sparda" When he doesn't have any feat that would make a solid evidence that he is equal to DMC Sparda.

The problem is that the argument everyone keeps putting forth is that he didn't, therefore he is less powerful. For all we know DmC Sparda could be as strong or stronger than the classic Sparda, but we aren't given any documentation on it. Like I said, he's an unknown variable, and it just doesn't work.

You can't take the absence of something to mean that it doesn't exist. In this case, we can't claim the lack of Sparda's battle stories as a means to judge that nothing happened, and that he's not powerful, and then use that to hold up the classic Sparda as better. You're literally comparing a legend to a nearly complete mystery. There's infinite potential in regards to DmC Sparda, really. He could have been immensely powerful, yet humble, and let himself be captured by Mundus because he was stricken with grief, who knows? Unknown variable.

I'd almost say we can't use Sparda as an element for Vergil and DmC because we can't compare the two at all, because the DmC counterpart is a void of information. The more information the better, but...we can't finish an equation if we're missing a digit :/

But those are clearly two different cases. What you have said that "DmC sparda don't bother to fight or whatever" is an assumption into narrative stand point. We don't do that in a fanfic battle. We based on feats and feats alone. DMC Sparda was able to defeat Mundus' demonic horde/army and was able to defeat him then seal him.

And in DmC, Sparda did...something...when confronting Mundus, but we're never given more than that. As said above, he has near-infinite potential because not much is actually known. Because of that, we could say he's really damn weak compared to Mundus as easily as we could say he's so much stronger than him :/

You mean Classic Sparda right? Yes, but it's also stated he is the only one who battled the legion and Mundus. The Humans are probably like Otacon, which is a sidekick to Snake.

He may have fought Mundus alone, but not "all teh hordez!" of demons. Didn't the people of the island in DMC2 fight right next to Sparda, or more specifically, that old lady Matier did.

 

[Chancey289]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

O___________________________________________o

Momma told me never to "just click on it."

 

[Sieghart]

The problem is that the argument everyone keeps putting forth is that he didn't, therefore he is less powerful. For all we know DmC Sparda could be as strong or stronger than the classic Sparda, but we aren't given any documentation on it. Like I said, he's an unknown variable, and it just doesn't work.

You can't take the absence of something to mean that it doesn't exist. In this case, we can't claim the lack of Sparda's battle stories as a means to judge that nothing happened, and that he's not powerful, and then use that to hold up the classic Sparda as better. You're literally comparing a legend to a nearly complete mystery. There's infinite potential in regards to DmC Sparda, really. He could have been immensely powerful, yet humble, and let himself be captured by Mundus because he was stricken with grief, who knows? Unknown variable.

Kept you waiting huh?
Anyway, yes DmC Sparda is indeed an unknown variable therefore we can't really say that he is stronger or equal to DMC Sparda. Because what we have seen is DmC Sparda was imprison and DMC sparda wasn't. We can't really say that DmC Sparda let himself captured in order to protect his sons because come on this is Mundus. Do you really think he would just let go the seeds that can defeat him in that verse? If Sparda thinks that then he must be pretty naive.

T
And in DmC, Sparda did...something...when confronting Mundus, but we're never given more than that. As said above, he has near-infinite potential because not much is actually known. Because of that, we could say he's really damn weak compared to Mundus as easily as we could say he's so much stronger than him :/

But that's all we got. Infinite potential. The two might have battled and Sparda loses, Or Mundus use some deception or trick or he let himself get captured(which is pretty naive if you ask me). But to help you for DmC Sparda's capabilities he is not just Mundus right hand man but also one of the four demon kings of the demon world in the reboot if you remember the comics.

He may have fought Mundus alone, but not "all teh hordez!" of demons. Didn't the people of the island in DMC2 fight right next to Sparda, or more specifically, that old lady Matier did.

Two millenniums ago, there was a war. Between the human world and the other... the Underworld. But somebody from the Underworld woke up to justice, and stood up against this legion, alone. His name was Sparda. Later, he quietly reigned the human world, and continued to preserve harmony, until his death. He became a legend, The Legendary Dark Knight, Sparda.

-Devil may cry intro

Another inconsistency of the devil may cry narrative i guess. Plus, DMC 2 DOESN'T EXIST >_<

 

[darkslayer13]

so the debate is now that DmC Sparda might have been stronger but let him self lose for some vague reason. that is very unlikely. if we assume that only Nephilim can seal the hellgate (since that is how you kill Mundus and only Nephilim are supposed to be able to kill him) then the situation it the same as DMC Sparda vs Mundus in which case if DmC Sparda was the same the results should have been the same. their is no situation where Sparda would benefit more from being imprisoned than sealing Mundus and we don't have any evidence that Sparda wouldn't have been able to seal the hellgate. the only clearly described advantage of Nephilim is that they can easily cross worlds. as Mundus' right hand man he would have probably known how to access the hellgate without Nephilim powers and Yamato has the same origin (given to Vergil by Sparda) and powers (or at least the one important to this discussion which is the ability to seal hellgates) so all Sparda would need to do is get in the room and Mundus could be made mortal and if he were as strong as DMC Sparda he wouldn't have any problem disabling Mundus long enough to seal the gate and then killing him. there could be other factors that would explain why DmC Sparda couldn't kill or seal Mundus but we are not aware of any so all evidence at the moment points to DmC Sparda being weaker than Mundus.

oh and the Vie De Marli helped Sparda with Argosax not Mundus. Sparda beat Mundus on his own.