He pounched a skyscapper sized demon! In the face! Without his strength enhancing gloves!
Dmc dante vs DMC3 vergil
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He pounched a skyscapper sized demon! In the face! Without his strength enhancing gloves!
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Well that clears up talking about "movement," not that I at all believe your FTL malarkey.
However, the problem is still something that I had proposed before; that blindingly fast speed is really only ever seen when Vergil uses iaido, which means it could be a feat that is inherently given by Yamato. It's possible it only works when he actually uses iaido, like how Dante only gets incredible speed with Rebellion when specifically using Million Stabs.
Soooo...can that really be applied specifically to Vergil? It's not a feat he displays with Beowulf, nor Force Edge, just Yamato. It's like how Dante is strong with his bare hands, but he's stronger with Eryx.
Malice is the force that's running through Limbo that accounts for all the floating debris and whatnot. Kat changing the orientation of the level is because she's got some of that nifty magical power, and all her random concoctions.
How...? I explained to you how people are or aren't affected by Limbo, and really, the physics-breaking stuff about Limbo is really only an effect on the actual terrain, inanimate objects. You go through the entire game watching people interacting with Limbo just like they do with the real world, aside from standing on floating platforms or being upside down and whatever.
Even specifically the fight with Poison gravity seems to be affecting them normally, just like it does in the real world.
Don't believe it if you don't want to, but that's how it is. Gravity holds people down in Limbo just like it does in the real world, unless someone else actually uses a specific magical power to change that.
Good for him. I would celebrate with you if that actually amounted to something mathematically but, like I said, physics wasn't there.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
I don't because there are still rocks and stuff floating around. Gravity has to affect all mass. If there is some force that is keeping them up then that force has to be identified and must be measurable. Since Malice is a confusing concept already, how exactly it interacts with the enviroment is confusing as well. Plus, considering that Dante could make his enemies float in the air, Mundus can slow down time, and Kat can shift space, I have enough evidence to say that physics in Limbo can be manipulated by various people using various means, which means its not really physics, its magic. Therefore, if Dante can punch a giant slug in the face, I can't be sure whether mass is actually a factor. If you don't think that's right, then fine, but this part of the argument is starting to annoy me. Give me an actual physics for Limbo and I'll yield.
That actually strikes my argument right at the core and, with that, I have to yield since I have no way of saying that Vergil could hit those speeds without Yamato. Simple fact is, he hasn't. Considering that I'm going with the idea that Vergil is physically capable of hitting those speeds (which, I can't lie, I did out of laziness since I didn't feel like trying to deduce how he's using magic, what kind of magic he's using, etc., etc.), he has only done so with Yamato. If he was truly capable of hitting those speeds, he would do it by himself. Otherwise, he's doing it with help and that destroys a good chunk of my argument. So, I give.
OBD is known for calculating most of the feats and calcs of fictional characters. If you want to see Vergil's speed calcs you have to go to their forums and search for it. It would be quite a hassle though.
I'm only saying that into a fictional perspective. Why it is considered no joke? Giving FTL speed into a fictional character makes them broken and they would literally own anybody in their universe or outside their universe. FTL is considered the fastest form of speed with the exception of omnipresence. I guess Dante beating Vergil( whom you believe is FTL when using Space dimension judgment cut) makes Dante to have FTL reaction time and reflexes then?
Vergil's blindingly fast speed is because of indeed the weapon and but in order for it to be that really fast it requires pure skill of the wielder and accuracy to hit the targets. I have bit of a background to Battojutsu and you can't just unsheathed the sword from the scabbard that fast. It requires years of training in order just to be fast at both sheathing and unsheathing your blade and to have that insight and accuracy like Vergil's(Which is actually impossible through human means but you probably get my point anyway.)
About the weapon yes, it also contributes to the attack speed. A Katana cut with speed and technique because they are specifically made that way. Western swords such as a claymore and broadsword cut with weight and power.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
One thing though. Dante uppercutting the gigantic Mundus was in the real world, by then there was no more Limbo, and all the debris flying around is swarming towards Mundo himself.
And Limbo's "physics" being affected by a few different things is true, but you're forgetting that Limbo itself is a blanket dimension over the real world, and the only time the real world physics don't apply is when Malice, or something else controlling it, or something else using magic acts upon that physics.
It's essentially the same concept of a ball not falling through the air because I'm holding it up. The concept of gravity is still there, and still very much in effect, but I'm acting against it. The same principal applies to Limbo - everything still falls because of gravity, unless Malice or some other form of magic is holding it up or otherwise affecting it.
There's always a clincher
On topic of weapons, my next thought is how exactly weapon swapping is carried out. We're never given any realistic example of it or how all the weapons are carried, since it's all in-game mechanics, but Dante himself here has access to (at least) all of his melee weapons without having to actually put one away, and pull out another, since in DmC Rebellion shape shifts to each different weapon itself.
Would that give him an advantage? Would Vergil only be allowed to have his Yamato and phantom swords, while Dante gets all his weapons because they're all in one? Do we just disregard trying to figure out weapon swapping general? And most importantly - do I go make a sammich?
lol weapon swapping is clearly game mechanics in the old game but we can see that Dante is able to use Cerberus in a cut scene. My only guess that it could either be magic as Dante was able to keep the devilarms that he have obtained.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Yeah, with Cerberus he just sorta pulled it out from behind his back, like every game character does in like every game ever >.< I'd like to think it follows a Kingdom Hearts/Dissidia style storage system, where they just, like, summon their weapon in their hand with a flash of light.
I remember hearing in one of the novels (I think Deadly Fortune) that Dante keeps all the Devil Arms he gets on his adventures, but he ends up selling them to pay off some debt
I remember hearing in one of the novels (I think Deadly Fortune) that Dante keeps all the Devil Arms he gets on his adventures, but he ends up selling them to pay off some debt
I remember hearing in one of the novels (I think Deadly Fortune) that Dante keeps all the Devil Arms he gets on his adventures, but he ends up selling them to pay off some debt
lol what a fool. If that was me i'll keep those forever xD
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Actually, Limbo just "spilled over" on the real World. That's why people started seeing the demons.
Except if you're holding up a ball, I can see your arm, and I know that there's a force pulling down on the ball. So, I can go ahead and measure how much strength you're using to hold up the ball.
However, gravity is a very real force because we know how it works. However, we don't know how it works in Limbo. Limbo's shape isn't uniform. There are times where it has a bottom (like at the Pier where the ocean is still there) and times where it doesn't (like in Under Watch where Malice tries to drop the floor under Dante and you can see what looks like the sky and the pieces fall endlessly). If there's something causing stuff to fall, it isn't gravity, which means it's a force that we don't know about it. That either means it's either a completely different form of physics or its just not physics at all or maybe its just something "mimicking" physics here on our world.
Actually... That sounds pretty interesting... I'll be back. I'm going to try to decode this. Expect a new topic from me soon.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
I talked to my buddy who is currently enrolled in college for physics about your talk of FTL, and he had a few things to say...
My Buddy:well, first off, you can't travel faster than the speed of light.
because your mass would approach infinity the faster you went.
TWOxACROSS:Yeah, but this is a fictional setting, so everyone is like "OMG it's a gayum, it can totally happen."
My Buddy:and the energy required to move the mass would also become infinite.
So his statement about moving back in time and not bumping into anything has no basis.
unless you're referring to the star trek movie where they went faster than the speed of light and went back in time to save some whales.
if people pull the 'omg it's a gayum" thing, then why have the discussion in the first place?
(also, the back in time spiel could also be the bit about particles with virtually no mass being able to move backwards in time... and since they are subatomic particles, they wouldn't encounter aerodynamic heating)
but the point there is that those particles have virtually no mass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
In any case, this guy needs to cite his sources.
TWOxACROSS:Oh tachyons~ <3
Yeah, and if during his iaido he has no mass, allowing him to move FTL...wouldn't his sword not do any damage?
Because it has no mass.
My Buddy:lol
yeah, cuz it probably wouldn't interact with normal matter.
So he could move faster than light all he wants, but it's not going to let him hurt anything.
either almost no mass or he'd have to have infinite mass...
and infinite mass would cause him to collapse in on himself.
I then showed him the post I'm quoting you on (which I've removed for space's sake), and he said a bit more about it...
My Buddy:Also, that bit about "space warping" is idiotic because he states that it's never been done before and therefore he has no evidence as to how it would appear... and to indiate that the case in the videogame is how it would appear is pointless and makes no sense. Especially since the only theories derived about this junk relates to subatomic particles.
the only way he could move FTL is if he somehow was able to displace space and time to create a warp bubble... and this is waaaaaay theoretical and physicists are not in agreement about it. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
TWOxACROSS:Yeah, maybe he thinks because there's the bubble that cuts up enemies.
My Buddy:*shrug* then the question there is how would he generate such a bubble?
(see the mass-energy requirement) of the article.
TWOxACROSS:So, most of his science is extremely theoretical, and he's just appropriating it all to support his case.
Like trying to convict someone of a crime with imaginary evidence.
My Buddy:yep
TWOxACROSS:Hrm.
Well.
It's fun talking theoretical physics
My Buddy:Conceptually, sure. Mathematically... not so much.
Heheh. He knows I don't like math
I dunno what you wanna take from that, but...yeah...I trust my buddy, because he's pretty goddamn smart >.>