Dmc dante vs DMC3 vergil

[TWOxACROSS]

Except that he is warping space and that requires FTL movement.

Where does it say he is warping space!?

So let's explain everything through magic? Magic is a part of their universe but I doubt it's the cause of every single feat the characters do and there are indications that show that the characters are doing these things unaided. For example, as indicated by the blurring effect, Vergil is moving at high speeds when he's using Air Tricks, same thing with Dante. Besides, if magic is allowing him to move FTL then he is still moving FTL.

Except Vergil's Air Trick is a magical, and instantaneous teleportation. It isn't him moving at high speed in a traditional sense. He's not walking, running, or jumping at high speed during his Tricks.

That blur isn't his super-fast movement, because otherwise it would be one continuous blur from A to B, like when we see Dante using his tricks. The blur is him fading out for that spot and reappearing

That's like denying that DmC Dante is ever capable of punching Mundus in the face because he needed Eryx to do it. Whether he used Eryx or not, he still did it.

Except Dante did punch Mundus without Eryx...

Ummm... If magic is involved, why does it need to collide with anything or have any ordinary physical reaction with anything else?

Because they all exist in friggin' reality, and they actively working against the laws of physics all the time when they do all their super-cool sh!t. Air obviously exists, because everyone seems to breathe, which means air molecules exist, which means if something goes fast enough, they're going to be colliding with air molecules. I'm just looking at what was shown in-game, and in-game, anything moving at such a high speed will incur aerodynamic heating, as we saw from Dante showing off after his awakening.

Capcom set that law in motion there, not me. I just observed it :/

For example, if Dante through Rebellion and used magic to speed it up, would that same heated shell be produced? Not necessarily as it would depend on what the magic was doing.

It probably would actually, unless there was a specific part of the magic that worked against aerodynamic heating, but we've yet to see anything like that. The only instance we see of aerodynamic heating is during Dante's show-off scene, and that was just him throwing his sword and then running after it with magically-enhanced strength. I say "magically-enhanced strength" because there's no way the human muslces, on someone with Dante's physique, could throw something or move that fast without some sort of metaphysical aid, like magic augmenting a person's strength.

Now, as for consequences of approaching that speed, it depends on how fast you accelerate. A gradual acceleration would cause the reactions we see normally but a sudden burst of speed would be much different.

I think you've got that totally backwards. The faster something goes, the more resistance it creates because of everything it's moving against. It doesn't matter if it's a burst or gradual because all those air molecules are still there, no matter how fast you're going. Plus, the slower you move, the easier it is for something to get out of the way.

Think of water; dive into a pool from the edge, you'll shbloop right in. However, dive into a pool at terminal velocity from a plane and the water is like solid concrete, because you're trying to move through the water so quickly that the molecules don't have time to get out of the way.

The same goes for air. And the faster you go, the harder molecules are going to collide, until some really cool sh!t starts happening; http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/

Plus, ultimately, you're forgetting the fact that even if Vergil was doing something faster than light, we would never see it happen. If he could perform FTL iaido, we'd seen him place his hand on his sword, and then something would die. We'd never see any movement.

And since we can pretty much see everything he's doing, it can't possibly be FTL. Hypersonic, maybe, but then that all comes back to the fact that Vergil is slicing at hypersonic speed, and handspeed is not indicative of overall speed.

The only time? How about everytime Dante enters Limbo when pieces of buildings break apart and start floating around in the air? Or when Kat literally shifted space using a timer filled some concoction of... stuff?

I said the only time people are affected by the gravity in Limbo. The people, the living thingers running around in Limbo, not the debris.

If physics is going to "take a break" then it's no longer physics and there's no way of objectively measuring how strong Dante really is. I mean, thanks for those small moments of "gravity" where some stuff fall while others still float in the air, but physics needs to be consistent for it to have any bearing.

Again, keep in mind that Malice is what's keeping debris in the air. Essentially, imagine Malice as a dude in the background holding stuff up by string. Everything else, though, still affected by physics.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Question;

If Sparda had tried to take on Mundus, it would have been after he had the HellGate, right? If that's the case, then... well it didn't matter how powerful he was, Mundus was in godmode along with legions of demons anyway. His only prerogative could've been to cut Mundus from his source of power before he even tried to fight Mundus...

Yeah, that's one of the other random aspects. Even without knowing how weak or strong Sparda is, Mundus us still immortal, hence why I bring up the possibilities of Sparda not even bothering, and then there's the fact that there's is no documentation of a fight taking place anyway, so it's a useless point to try and make.

And I'm still baffled by this selective argument for Vergil's FTL Judgment Cut.

Slashes so fast it distorts space > distorted space from the slash doesn't hurt > the actual attack itself only acts upon a single point at a time > the entire attack itself can be avoided with mere above human speed movements = somehow FTL.

There is just the very simple logic that even Vergil's most powerful attacks, like the one he does in his final battle with Dante, can be avoided by a brisk run :/ And if not a brisk run, the good ol' dodge roll.

Anything that can be avoided by human-like feats is probably not moving faster than light >.>

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

There is just the very simple logic that even Vergil's most powerful attacks, like the one he does in his final battle with Dante, can be avoided by a brisk run :/ And if not a brisk run, the good ol' dodge roll.

Anything that can be avoided by human-like feats is probably not moving faster than light >.>

So the gameplay must be on FTL level for Vergil's attack to be?

We are humans, not superman, therefor the gameplay will be adjusted to our capabilities. Dante's speed is much faster than what the gameplay shows us, but if you speed it up to much the gameplay will feel bad.
I mean if you want to use gameplay to try to argument, then...why is Dante's regeneration so very high in the story but in gameplay he can't regenerate?

Am i misunderstanding something or are you saying Vergil's attack during gameplay must be faster than lighting i.e we see a flash and nothing else, for Vergils speed to be FTL?

 

[Sieghart]

Giving a character FTL speed is no joke people. Giving a character this kind of feat makes them god tier and Vergil clearly is not. If that was the case then DMC 3 Dante should have FTL reaction and reflex(which is clearly not true) as he is able to beat Vergil fair and square.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So the gameplay must be on FTL level for Vergil's attack to be?

We are humans, not superman, therefor the gameplay will be adjusted to our capabilities. Dante's speed is much faster than what the gameplay shows us, but if you speed it up to much the gameplay will feel bad.
I mean if you want to use gameplay to try to argument, then...why is Dante's regeneration so very high in the story but in gameplay he can't regenerate?

Am i misunderstanding something or are you saying Vergil's attack during gameplay must be faster than lighting i.e we see a flash and nothing else, for Vergils speed to be FTL?

The claim is that Vergil's attacks and/or speed is faster than light. If anything is truly done faster than light, or even close to it, we wouldn't even see anything happening. If Vergil's iaido were at FTL speeds, we'd literally see him put his hand on his hand on his sword, and then something would die. We would literally not see what is happening. There'd be no frames of animation, no blurs for his attacks. There wouldn't even really be any downtime during the attack.

Also - fun fact, the attack would most likely actually start and finish before you hear the clang of the Yamato leaving its sheath, since light travels faster than sound.

Then there's the fact that when Dante was showing off after his awakening, we saw aerodynamic heating, because he was going so damn fast, and yet we never see anything similar anywhere else, which means that speed is never achieved anywhere else, even with Vergil's attacks, which are still some of the fastest things in the game.

 

[Sieghart]

Then there's the fact that when Dante was showing off after his awakening, we saw aerodynamic heating, because he was going so damn fast, and yet we never see anything similar anywhere else, which means that speed is never achieved anywhere else, even with Vergil's attacks, which are still some of the fastest things in the game.

You mean at the tower scene? Oh, that was actually calculated by OBD themselves: http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Dante

See the speed section.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Ooo~ Intemeresting. We have a number to it

 

[Chancey289]

So the gameplay must be on FTL level for Vergil's attack to be?

We are humans, not superman, therefor the gameplay will be adjusted to our capabilities. Dante's speed is much faster than what the gameplay shows us, but if you speed it up to much the gameplay will feel bad.
I mean if you want to use gameplay to try to argument, then...why is Dante's regeneration so very high in the story but in gameplay he can't regenerate?

Am i misunderstanding something or are you saying Vergil's attack during gameplay must be faster than lighting i.e we see a flash and nothing else, for Vergils speed to be FTL?

Nothing is faster than light. No one in Devil May Cry can move FTL. Doesn't even matter if it's fiction. It still never demonstrates someone moving FTL.

The Flash is a fictional character who could actually travel FTL. Is Vergil as fast as The Flash? No f#cking way. There's your answer in a pretty simple format that hopefully you'll even understand.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

According to dis place that Sieghart linked, Vergil's speed is around Mach 15. That's certainly fast...but it's not faster than light.

So there's some information from people who already took the time to figure it out

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

With Quicksilver

Without Quick Silver​

 

[TWOxACROSS]

And...? We can still see movement.

And if you can dodge that simply by running, it's certainly not faster than light...

If they were both moving faster than light, but we're seeing it from their perspective, then they'd be standing on the water like it was a solid floor, as the river probably wouldn't even seem to be flowing.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

And...? We can still see movement.

And if you can dodge that simply by running, it's certainly not faster than light...

Did i say i was argumenting for FTL?
Just posted it, as i said before that Vergils speed is fast. And i also believed his speed and overall power would increase in DT, and i was not wrong with that.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well yeah, that was never an argument. Dunno why you brought it up :/

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Well yeah, that was never an argument. Dunno why you brought it up :/

Actually you believed his speed was teleportation.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Air Trick is teleportation. Iaido, and pretty much any of his other attacks, are variable degrees of speed.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Air Trick is teleportation. Iaido, and pretty much any of his other attacks, are variable degrees of speed.

But you talked about Beuwolf scene, not air trick when i presented that scene.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

When he killed Beowulf he wasn't even using Air Trick....he just did a fancy spinning backflip.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

When he killed Beowulf he wasn't even using Air Trick....he just did a fancy spinning backflip.

Fancy backflips don't push you forward alone. And if he can backflip so fast and use his katana while doing so, that just shows how fast he is.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

No, that shows he has good coordination skills. Doing multiple things at once isn't a feat of speed, it's a feat of coordination. How fast you can do those multiple things, that's a feat of speed, but his backflip wasn't really any faster than one you can see anyone do. So far the "blindingly fast speed" Vergil is known for is still only with the Yamato, especially when performing iaido.

 

[Railazel]

Are people actually jumping into the whole FTL argument? Yippee!

Anywho, let me start with strongest argument since there are plenty I can go against right now and then there are some that are kind of... ridiculous.

I think you've got that totally backwards. The faster something goes, the more resistance it creates because of everything it's moving against. It doesn't matter if it's a burst or gradual because all those air molecules are still there, no matter how fast you're going. Plus, the slower you move, the easier it is for something to get out of the way.

Think of water; dive into a pool from the edge, you'll shbloop right in. However, dive into a pool at terminal velocity from a plane and the water is like solid concrete, because you're trying to move through the water so quickly that the molecules don't have time to get out of the way.

The same goes for air. And the faster you go, the harder molecules are going to collide, until some really cool sh!t starts happening; http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/

Actually, that's not true for something moving faster than light. If something is moving faster than light then you won't be ramming into particles because you would be moving backwards in time, so no measurable effects would actually occur.

Of course, this poses the question of why can we see Vergil if that's the case? Well, I guess this is a... misunderstanding brought up from me saying that Vergil is "moving" FTL when he's actually not really moving, it's just him sheathing and unsheathing his sword. So, really, you guys can ignore me for placing "swing speed" into the same category as general movement.

Anywho, the real question would be: if Vergil is swinging his sword FTL than how can we see it? Well, we don't actually. We don't see the sword but we can see everything produced from its movement and that doesn't necessarily mean that the effects have to move at the same speed. The space warping (yes, TxA it is warping because its distorting light along with the sound produced by the effect where sound frequencies are being stretched. It doesn't have to be put in black and white, just implied.), for example, is moving at a slow enough pace that you can see it coming. To be fair, this might not be an accurate representation of how fast space warps since its never been done before.

As for Vergil's movements when unsheathing and resheathing his sword, I would need to do some math for that, so I'll come back with some numbers and equations later.

I think that covers the serious arguments. Now, for the silly ones.

Nothing is faster than light.

Except for...

The Flash

Okay, gotcha.

According to dis place that Sieghart linked, Vergil's speed is around Mach 15. That's certainly fast...but it's not faster than light.

So there's some information from people who already took the time to figure it out

Except I see no math on that page, so how are you supposed to be so sure that it's correct?

Giving a character FTL speed is no joke people.

Because giving fictional characters physics- breaking powers is a very serious matter that needs the utmost care and consideration.

Essentially, imagine Malice as a dude in the background holding stuff up by string. Everything else, though, still affected by physics.

Malice along with a teenage girl and anything with demon powers, right? And if Malice is a dude, what kind of weed is he smoking? Or is he on crack? Maybe, meth?

Anywho, Malice isn't that strong of a force since Dante and Vergil are seemingly able to move stuff and it not worry about their progression until... I don't know... it gets tired of watching? Even then, that just goes back to my point that physics isn't consistent enough in Limbo for me to measure Dante's strength.