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Dante and Raiden... DmC and MGR... Why choose?

Gbraga said:
Because in general, japanese developers tend to understand how gameplay works and make great mechanics for their games, while western developers tend to make generic gameplay for a story-driven experience that holds your hand in a too linear experience with magnetic platforms and hand-holding. Ninja Theory may be an exception to the rule, but only AFTER working with a japanese developer very closely, specially about gameplay, before that their games were also generic in that department.
Not entirely true, though I mostly agree with you. I highly recommend watching Darksiders combos or even playing it yourself. The game lends itself to being creative your combos and weapons. I bring up Darksiders since it was developed by Vigil Games(Located in Texas).

Just compare any western shooter with Vanquish or Resident Evil 6, they don't stand a chance when it comes to mechanics, even the biggest ones like Gears of War. And that's a genre dominated by western devs.
Again mostly agree with you, but even Gears does have it's in-depth mechanics like RE6. RE4, 5 and 6 feel very..."Japanese" when it comes to using invincibility frames and animation reading(as someone who plays Mercs for 5 and 6 nonstop). Whereas Gears has mechanics such as blindfire estimating, wall bouncing and quick weapon switching.

And seriously, in this forum the question should be "Why does DmC gets a free pass at everything it has, no matter how flowed?", it really bugs me that unskippable cutscenes in the middle of a boss fight is seen as "nitpicking" in here, and also complaining about big loading times is reason to be laughed at, like you can't grab yourself a drink during that time. It's ridiculous, that's not the kind of feedback that will help the game improve in future iterations, that's just ass kissing that supports the kind of behavior they had about fans, even when they were offering very solid feedback about the game by playing the demo.
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If there's anything I've seen, it's that DmC hasn't been given a free pass to anything. DmC is claimed as a bad game because it has glitches. Yet games like Fallout and Skyrim are highly praised and the glitches are humourous. Or that DmC has swearing which makes "Donte" a bad character yet swearing in GTA seems fine and no-one is bothered. This new Dante is a bad character with a crap attitude yet characters like Lightning are like that due to their background and is great character development.

I don't support bad game design in anyway but I don't find DmC to be as bad people claim it is. I do think having a lock-on would improve the game as well as adding enemy health bars. I'm also on the side of getting rid of Angel/Demon enemies. But unskippable 4 second cutscenes (I timed it)...eh.
 
Gbraga said:
And seriously, in this forum the question should be "Why does DmC gets a free pass at everything it has, no matter how flowed?", it really bugs me that unskippable cutscenes in the middle of a boss fight is seen as "nitpicking" in here, and also complaining about big loading times is reason to be laughed at, like you can't grab yourself a drink during that time. It's ridiculous, that's not the kind of feedback that will help the game improve in future iterations, that's just ass kissing that supports the kind of behavior they had about fans, even when they were offering very solid feedback about the game by playing the demo.
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lol Did you even try pressing the select button?
 
GF9000000Returns said:
lol Did you even try pressing the select button?
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Cutscenes in the demo you can/can't skip:

Underwatch:
You can skip: Beginning
You can skip: Opening Can scene
You can skip: Camera introduction. Starts with "Kat: The Camera spotted you..."
You cannot skip pulling out the eye from the Limbo Camera (5 seconds)
You can skip: The world crumbling cutscene can be skipped but needs to load
You cannot skip the Spinning Spike enemy cutscene(3 seconds)
You can skip: The cutscene which introduces the BastardBabies and ChainsawsGeezers Starts with "Limbo: We can see you...."
You can skip: Dante meeting back with Kat. Starts with "Kat: Here you are..."
You cannot skip Dante Analysing area cutscene (I personally HATE seeing this cutscene. It's easily the worst offender)
You cannot skip pulling out the eye from Camera 1 (around 5 seconds)
...or Camera 2
You cannot skip the Church intro cutscene
You can skip: The church crumbling/extending cutscene
You can skip: The Dante meeting back with Kat cutscene "Church is a bore"

Secret Ingredient:
You can skip the intro to the area
You can skip the intro to Poison
You can't skip the boss reaction cutscenes (after pulling out her cables)
You can't skip her first death
You can skip the ending cutscene

Pretty sure that's right. (That's my own "research" on the demo).
 
8BitHero said:
If there's anything I've seen, it's that DmC hasn't been given a free pass to anything. DmC is claimed as a bad game because it has glitches. Yet games like Fallout and Skyrim are highly praised and the glitches are humourous. Or that DmC has swearing which makes "Donte" a bad character yet swearing in GTA seems fine and no-one is bothered. This new Dante is a bad character with a crap attitude yet characters like Lightning are like that due to their background and is great character development.

I don't support bad game design in anyway but I don't find DmC to be as bad people claim it is. I do think having a lock-on would improve the game as well as adding enemy health bars. I'm also on the side of getting rid of Angel/Demon enemies. But unskippable 4 second cutscenes (I timed it)...eh.
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I agree with you that in general people are bitching too much about this game, but in this forum in particular the defense force is outrageous.

And I did play Darksiders 1 and 2 (1 is a GREAT game, 2 has the best combat in a western game, but I didn't like the game), but Darksiders 2's combat designer is tragic, a diehard fan of DMC and fighting games that has japanese games as his inspirations.
 
I guess it is to balance out all the sh*t people throw at DmC in other forums, this forum is a place for those supporting it, or rather, the majority are. So it is only to be expected that there will be some resistance towards those who are against DmC.

That said, I am against extremists from both sides, wether they are for or against DmC. We should all be able to express our opinions and have good, valid discussions about it without having to throw a sh*tstorm at eachother.
 
ZeroLove said:
I guess it is to balance out all the sh*t people throw at DmC in other forums, this forum is a place for those supporting it, or rather, the majority are. So it is only to be expected that there will be some resistance towards those who are against DmC.

That said, I am against extremists from both sides, wether they are for or against DmC. We should all be able to express our opinions and have good, valid discussions about it without having to throw a sh*tstorm at eachother.
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Exactly, that's why I get mad for having my opinion deminished every single time I talk something bad about the game, I love the new Dante and I support this game too, but people are quick to forget that every time I talk anything negative about it.

I'm not saying "You can't skip some cutscenes, the game sucks", I'm saying "You can't skip some cutscenes, but you should be able to and I see no reason whatsoever for them not letting you"
 
I think most of it is all over paranoia. I mean, most people who support the game are all too familiar with the stuff you see on sites like Youtube... so some of us can be a little too defensive.

Just gotta accept if someone talks about a part of the game they hate and acts as though they speak the "truth"; that it's just their opinion. Same as looking forward to the game is just yours. None of us can claim to represent or speak for anyone but our own selves.
 
I'm not into the war zone either. Plan to buy DmC, God Of War Ascension and MGSR. Three different beat' em all. But I have more love for DmC and God Of War actually.

Funny thing I don't play that much Dante or Raiden on PlayStation All-Stars. Because everybody are talking Kratos/Raiden/Dante.
 
Blacko said:
I'm not into the war zone either. Plan to buy DmC, God Of War Ascension and MGSR. Three different beat' em all. But I have more love for DmC and God Of War actually.

Funny thing I don't play that much Dante or Raiden on PlayStation All-Stars. Because everybody are talking Kratos/Raiden/Dante.
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Fat Princess... She is highly underrated, but really good in PASBR. ;D
 
I didn't really like the beta for All-Stars, but I wish Capcom would make a Capcom Fighting Jam with the UMVC3 engine and gameplay, with a Capcom roster, including DmC Dante, DMC3 Dante, DMC 4 Dante, DMC 3 Vergil, DmC Vergil and Nero <3

Being able to play with a team of Dante/Dante/Dante would be godlike lol
 
Blacko said:
I'm not into the war zone either. Plan to buy DmC, God Of War Ascension and MGSR. Three different beat' em all. But I have more love for DmC and God Of War actually.

Funny thing I don't play that much Dante or Raiden on PlayStation All-Stars. Because everybody are talking Kratos/Raiden/Dante.
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Same here, action games like these are my favorite games, I plan on buying every one I can. Although Devil May Cry will always be my fav, :)
 
Gbraga said:
I agree with you that in general people are bitching too much about this game, but in this forum in particular the defense force is outrageous.

And I did play Darksiders 1 and 2 (1 is a GREAT game, 2 has the best combat in a western game, but I didn't like the game), but Darksiders 2's combat designer is tragic, a diehard fan of DMC and fighting games that has japanese games as his inspirations.
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THAAAAAAAT explains everything.

Gbraga said:
Exactly, that's why I get mad for having my opinion deminished every single time I talk something bad about the game, I love the new Dante and I support this game too, but people are quick to forget that every time I talk anything negative about it.

I'm not saying "You can't skip some cutscenes, the game sucks", I'm saying "You can't skip some cutscenes, but you should be able to and I see no reason whatsoever for them not letting you"
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This forum is the only place I will listen to negative feedback. It's why the fair criticisms thread is popular because it's the actual DMC community talking. Dude, if there are any group of people I'm going to listen to about what the pros and cons are of DmC it's this place; where those who spend hours learning the mechanics know what they're talking about and I don't find this forum to be completely defending this game nor bashing it either. I'm honestly not bothered about being able to skip 5 second cutscenes BUT HAVING SAID THAT all cutscenes should have the option to skip. Having the option satisfies both parties. This is the kind of feedback NT should be taking on.

Also, Dante in Playstation All-stars is easily the most fun character to play. I love being stylish with that dude and having complex combos. I play Dante in MvC3 and he transfers over to Playstation All-stars pretty well.
 
Gbraga said:
You didn't know? I bet you already know him by his youtube channel, trag13
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Nah I know who trag is. I've seen him a few times in fighting game stream chats on Twitch.tv AND I was watching his stuff when he was showing off some of the early MvC3 Dante Isedelica(BreaToal) combos and then posting my own. What he's doing now....no idea.

But I had NO IDEA he worked on Darksiders combat though. It felt refined. Not quite DMC4 crazy but a solid combo system that had variety due to the weapons. A little bit of gaming trivia there.
 
The only games that i'm anticipating in 2013 despite many great games will release this year is:

DmC: Devil may Cry
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2
Tomb Raider
GTA V
Watch Dogs

Funny because they are all in PC. Now i'm thinking which to torrent :troll:
As for reveangence, my friend have a Xbox 360 recently and it seems he is buying it. Oh, and it looks like i'm also gonna get to play the DmC demo today.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
They're both ninja games :P And think about it, Platinum Games is good at taking an existing product and turning it on its ear. They did it for Vanquish, off of Gears of War. I'd still take MGR over any of the Ninja Gaidens any day.
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Personally MGR looks like a better NG3 but I prefer NG2 over MGR anyday due to its large weapons variety. Raiden only has a sword and various sub weapons that expire use rather quickly (grenade, rocket launcher, and that one spear). Ryu has a sword, scythe, bow and arrows, nunchakus, claws, shurikens, ball and spike staff, and other weapons as well as various elemental ninjutsu. Ninja Gaiden 2 is the best ninja game PERIOD. It is more challenging and requires more skill than MGR and is overall more stylish and has more DMC flair maybe even more than DmC and doesn't have QTE that plagues so much action games today. MGR is still a good game but it solely wins on LOOKING better. MGR has that cut anything mechanic that I thought was unique and innovative to MGR until I played Afro Samurai and saw that it has a rather similar mechanic to it.....no its basically the same albiet with some minor differences.
 
Stylish Nero said:
Personally MGR looks like a better NG3 but I prefer NG2 over MGR anyday due to its large weapons variety. Raiden only has a sword and various sub weapons that expire use rather quickly (grenade, rocket launcher, and that one spear). Ryu has a sword, scythe, bow and arrows, nunchakus, claws, shurikens, ball and spike staff, and other weapons as well as various elemental ninjutsu. Ninja Gaiden 2 is the best ninja game PERIOD. It is more challenging and requires more skill than MGR and is overall more stylish and has more DMC flair maybe even more than DmC and doesn't have QTE that plagues so much action games today. MGR is still a good game but it solely wins on LOOKING better. MGR has that cut anything mechanic that I thought was unique and innovative to MGR until I played Afro Samurai and saw that it has a rather similar mechanic to it.....no its basically the same albiet with some minor differences.
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Actually, there is more weapons in MGR that haven't been announced yet. Konami and Platinum games have confirmed that you will get more weapons from bosses (like that spear/whip thing from Mistral) so I'm not worried about the weapons myself. While I agree that the QTE in MGR is a cause for some worry but so far the QTEs we have seen have been context sensitive and nothing like the QTEs like God of War and such.

I don't agree on that MGR solely wins on looking better. I have played the demo several times and the controls just feels so much better than the clusterfuck that is DmC. Directional commands like Double tap forward+Triangle feels very responsive than Dontes attempt to do a Stinger in DmC.

Plus, (while this is my more fanboyish side talking) Platinum Games have rarely made me dissapointed so I have faith in them.
 
I don't know I haven't played MGR demo yet and its not like Platinum Games have a perfect track record. I heard plenty of bad things about Anarchy Reigns (as well as tons of good things). Mad World from a gameplay stand point was mediocre. Even Rising has some criticisms.
 
Stylish Nero said:
I don't know I haven't played MGR demo yet and its not like Platinum Games have a perfect track record. I heard plenty of bad things about Anarchy Reigns (as well as tons of good things). Mad World from a gameplay stand point was mediocre. Even Rising has some criticisms.
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Oh I totally agree, Platinum haven't made the perfect games or so. While Vanquish was tons of fun and a spin on the usual Third Person Shooter, it was way too short and had a lackluster of a story. Bayonetta had some awesome combat but had some annoying segments and could have gone without the QTE in cutscenes. Anarchy Reigns was their first attempt at Multiplayer so ofcourse it got some issues, sadly enough.

The thing is though, there have always been passion behind their games, they want to make games that feels right when playing them and they do a pretty damn good job at it. Watching a documentary about how Platinum Games works and how they see on the game industry in general, you can really see that it is people that loves videogames and also loves making them. I find it is a rare passion in the current videogame industry and I hope they keep on going strong.

Not to bash on Ninja Theory but the impression I get from watching interviews and Behind The Scenes about DmC, is that NT wants to tell a story rather than making a game that feels good playing. It's nothing wrong with that but it doesn't fit with how the previous DMC games were, they have always been about gameplay, not focus on the story.

Rising may have some issues (like how the Zandatsu cutscenes breaks the flow a little) but I'll wait unitl it releases before I make my full judgement, same with DmC.

EDIT: Also, try out the MGR demo when it releases. It's tons of fun.
 
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