Comic Fans and Racism: Destroying Your Ignorant Arguments

[LordOfDarkness]

So because people have a certain preference for a characters skin colour means they're racist? And it couldn't be down to the fact that whoever made that character made them to either be black or white so that's how people expect that character to be.

The point is not "Okay so why can't this character be black/white", the point is "Why does it/should it matter?". It shouldn't matter about race. But just because it shouldn't matter doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

Honestly that's like saying place a white guy as any black character. Um, no.

I just love how people are so quick to say that it makes you racist. Racism is a lot more than not wanting to change a character's skin colour. The same goes with sexism for not wanting to change a guy to a girl.

 

[V]

Yup. People become fans of characters for a bunch of reasons, but one of the big ones is attraction and the one of the other big ones is because they relate to them. So... that's why this issue's still an issue. Race and gender are big in the attraction and relate-ability dept., whether we like it or not.

They could kind of avoid the whole problem by not trying to manipulate established characters and just coming up with new ones. If they don't have the balls to make new franchises, it's not like they couldn't make new characters within franchises that are successful: example, Harley Quinn. IIRC, she didn't exist in the comic universe until one of the animated shows invented her.

 

[Chancey289]

That reminds me... what if Captain America was black?

It's happened already. Twice.

Falcon is currently the new Captain America after Steve gave up the mantle. That still makes sense to me because you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone better to take up the mantle other than Sam Wilson.

Am I the only one then who saw the new Bond is blonde and said f*** this s**t and gave up on the franchise?

I didn't know the 'new' Johnny is black. I guess it's not a far fetch since his sister in the first movie was played by Jessica Alba, and she's not white. Nobody made a hooha about that because it was the first movie, it was new to an audience that wasn't into the comics.

I'm a fan of F4 but knowing now they've recast Johnny's character? Look. I'd have a hard time accepting another white actor. The issue here is not just the colour of his skin, but the fact that no one will play the character as well as the first dude. That's how the audience was introduced to him, that established his fanbase, so what exactly is their motivation for changing his character?

Michael B. Jordan is a good choice for Johnny though. When I think of Johnny Storm, that guy can fill in the role nicely.

Chris Evans is Captain America now and I want it to stay that way because he is freaking amazing in the role. I'll go as far as saying Chris as Cap. is one of the best embodiments of a superhero I've ever seen. Dude does not get enough credit.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I meant in the cinematic universe but ok.

 

[Chancey289]

So because people have a certain preference for a characters skin colour means they're racist? And it couldn't be down to the fact that whoever made that character made them to either be black or white so that's how people expect that character to be.

The point is not "Okay so why can't this character be black/white", the point is "Why does it/should it matter?". It shouldn't matter about race. But just because it shouldn't matter doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

Honestly that's like saying place a white guy as any black character. Um, no.

I just love how people are so quick to say that it makes you racist. Racism is a lot more than not wanting to change a character's skin colour. The same goes with sexism for not wanting to change a guy to a girl.

Look dude, I get where some people are coming from when it comes to not wanting a character to be changed for the SAKE of nothing but diveristy and nonsensical pandering.

As a big Spider-Man fan, I never came around to Miles Morales because I'm simply a Peter Parker fan. Albeit, Miles is not a bad character, just not who I want as Spider-Man taking Peter's place. No one can take Peter's place. He's Peter freaking Parker.

But this right here, is not one of those cases of nonsensical pandering or casting done for token diversity. Michael simply auditioned for the role and they liked what they saw. I can totally see him as Johnny Storm, (See Chronicle and I dare you to tell me he won't fit the character)

This is flat out ignorant. To a lot of comic fans, THIS IS THEIR BIGGEST ISSUE in a movie that has a lot more to be ****ed at about. That says a lot. Yes, if this is your issue, you deserved to be b!tch slapped hard in the face. And leave my fandom. Even Stan Lee gave his blessing to Michael.

I meant in the cinematic universe but ok.

If they kill Steve off in the cinematic universe, I'd be totally fine with Falcon taking over. Anthony Mackie made Falcon cool in Captain America 2.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

It's happened already. Twice.

Falcon is currently the new Captain America after Steve gave up the mantle. That still makes sense to me because you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone better to take up the mantle other than Sam Wilson.

If *SPOILER ALERT*

They do kill of Steve Rogers in the MCU, who do you think is gonna replace him as Cap? Sam or Bucky? I'm kinda torn, I think they'd both be great, but Sam is Cap currently in the comics, and they did sorta reference they Bucky became Cap with the moments Bucky/Winter Soldier used the shield. But I kinda like them both to stay as the Falcon and Winter Soldier (Possibly as an Anti-Hero)

Edit, I started typing before the previous comment was posted

 

[Chancey289]

Agreed.

And this is NOT one of those cases of nonsensical pandering or token diversity. This was just an actor getting a role because he got it!

 

[Chancey289]

Also

Unless you know the race or fully understand the why of every individual that has an issue with this you can't deem them as racist & your argument/rant is just as flawed & meritless as you claim everyone's to be.

But you hit it right.

That's exactly right, exactly the reason why when some say it's about the source material THEN it is about the source material.
IT's YOU & those like you Chancey289 who choose not to believe it & care not to understand why.

Those very people can explain it to you a billion times & you'd still choose to think what you want.

You think I don't get comic books? I'm a massive fan and one thing I know about comics is that they are subject to change so many times, and they change with the times. Like every other entertainment medium.

Why don't you read the article? This source material was created in a time where this kind of stuff was unheard of. So it's always got to be that way? That has to be the reason we deny a perfectly capable actor of playing the role in an adaption?

Damn right that sounds straight up ignorant.

And Vamp, seriously, you are ALWAYS against any kind of change. Your ideal gaming girl for example is always a skimpy scantily clad women with breast as big as her head. You act like any deviation from that is somehow an arbitrary feminist conspiracy or something that's ruining your video games. Instead of I don't know, just a character being done in a different way.

When it comes to fictional characters, I think the best way to describe how I want them done is I want them to be written as people before anything else. Before their skin color, gender, etc.

 

[Chancey289]

I'm telling you now i'm a comic collector, been one for over 15 & YUUUUUUP I am a stickler when it comes to certain things in comic to movie translation, same with you.
The same person who had an issue with white Shredder before the teenage mutant ninja turtles was even done or out.

So, despite Michael B. Jordan fully capable of playing the cocky, charismatic, hot headed, fire powered superhero, the only reason he shouldn't is because he's black.

That's exactly what you're saying.

 

[Ixbran]

its not like this hasnt happened before. In the old comic books Nick Fury was black, but in the cartoons he was changed to be white, and was only recently made black again. As for characters changing gender, like Thor has recently: Do You Know ANYTHING Aboute norse mythology?! Changing genders is a thing in the original mythology. Hell Loki turned into a female horse, got impregnated by his and Thors fathers horse, then gave birth to slipner the fastest horse in Asguard. So characters changing gender is fine b me, as long as it both fits the character and it can be explained why it happened.

Yes itd be cooler if they just made new characters rather than change pre-established ones, but its been proven that hardly ever works. People simply ignore the new characters in favor of the popular ones. And sometimes changes are necessary to make sure all kinds of fans: be it by their genders, ethnicities, and sexual orientations can be represented.

Lets just hope that M.B. Jhordan can do an accurate Johnny Storm, his race shouldn't effect weather or not he gets the part, but his acting skills.

 

[Director Bison]

its not like this hasn't happened before. In the old comic books Nick Fury was black, but in the cartoons he was changed to be white, and was only recently made black again.

sorry but according to this you are incorrect

unless this is wrong
which it could be

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

What the **** happened to this thread? This is seriously just flamebait. Honestly it needs to stop or this is gonna get locked, and I'd hate to see some good members get struck or banned for this. :/

 

[V]

Looks like a dose of truth to me.

Someone was gonna call it out sooner or later.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Looks like a dose of truth to me.

Someone was gonna call it out sooner or later.

Are you directing that towards Chancey289? Because I'm sorry but I don't agree or think anyone has the right to publicly humiliate/shame others. This isn't what I expected this thread to turn out like when it was moving along at a sensible level.

Honestly it isn't as if the staff don't warn people enough or as Dreadnought said lock these types of threads that just end up veering off into rants and insults.

It wouldn't kill for some of you to show a bit of decency.

Right now, for some members in particular, you're on very thin ice. So I wouldn't keep jumping or that ice might break.

 

[V]

Yes, it was. I noticed he likes to swan in to other people's conversations and leave unproductive comments, or personal ones, but it's everyone else who's childish. I also don't buy the idea that just because someone else is in a bad mood, or has 'problems', it's okay to do that. We all have problems.

And I'll say it right now since the thread will no doubt be locked and everybody silenced.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I totally solely agree.


Are you serious ?
The thread title, there's DevilMayCry vs DmC threads closed & locked for less.

In the first post Chancey289 implied those who has a problem with the rebooted character are racist even without knowing who these people are.
He implied they're ignorant even though he gave the reason stated as they're dislike.

There's was no warning for Chancey289 or tread lightly issued towards him for any of those things i've listed.

When the thread title has the words Racism & Ignorant Arguments made by him, what did you expect ?

He IS having issues with his personal life right now, so while that doesn't entirely excuse his behavior, I can see why he'd be upset. I have a tendency of being unable to control my emotions as well.

I don't want to make assumptions, but I think we should all let bygones be bygones and try to get past this. As a community, we need to be better to each other, and support one another instead of getting into hateful arguments. Sometimes that's just not possible I know, but I like to be an idealist about it. So for anyone reading this, please, I would love for our community to be known for being sensible, not for being a group of bickerers.

 

[Chancey289]

I'm not angry or anything at anyone right now, so we can all just slow down.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I'm not angry or anything at anyone right now, so we can all just slow down.

Ah... And this is why I said I didn't want to make assumptions. My mistake.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

So because someone has done something wrong it makes it equally acceptable to be disrespectful towards them?

@VampireWicked: Yes I have already shared my views on this. But a person's view on something is simply that. As I said, it gives you or anyone else no right to attack that view whether you like the person or not. The topic was still moving along at a reasonable level until some thought it a good idea to become more personal.

There's was no warning for Chancey289 or tread lightly issued towards him for any of those things i've listed.

My comments were aimed at everybody that was arguing here. There would be no need to single him out.

 

[V]

He IS having issues with his personal life right now, so while that doesn't entirely excuse his behavior, I can see why he'd be upset. I have a tendency of being unable to control my emotions as well.

I don't want to make assumptions, but I think we should all let bygones be bygones and try to get past this. As a community, we need to be better to each other, and support one another instead of getting into hateful arguments. Sometimes that's just not possible I know, but I like to be an idealist about it. So for anyone reading this, please, I would love for our community to be known for being sensible, not for being a group of bickerers.

Whatever he's having problems with, I guarantee I've got some myself right now that are more than likely bigger. Nonetheless, I try to withhold my personal feelings, right from when he and his pals first came on to this forum to troll everyone who didn't like the new game, to now... where I see they're still getting away with a level of bitching and trolling nobody else does. It gets real difficult however when you discover the clique is talking smack about you behind the forum scenes, ignores you on the open boards, and now has a new pal among the mods.