Cloud VRS Dante

[Rebellion327]

You know what? this IS a DMC forum. not an FF forum. And a lot of people agree that Dante would win, not because they're DMC fans but because it's a known fact.

And please, stop being redundant(you keep rubbing in the materia as if Dante has no devil arms to match it), and don't ignore what other people write here. and if you don't like the idea of the most powerful demon defeating Cloud, well then, there's no point arguing. A closed mind is a closed mind, and you can't convince it to open no matter what.A fanboy is a fanboy.

And the limit you were talking about? Dante has that, only a higher limit than that of Cloud's, and a lot of people would agree with that. (in fact, if you weren't ignoring the earlier posts by other people, they already did.) so, do mind other people, please.

 

[Black Angel]

You know what? this IS a DMC forum. not an FF forum. And a lot of people agree that Dante would win, not because they're DMC fans but because it's a known fact.

And please, stop being redundant(you keep rubbing in the materia as if Dante has no devil arms to match it), and don't ignore what other people write here. and if you don't like the idea of the most powerful demon defeating Cloud, well then, there's no point arguing. A closed mind is a closed mind, and you can't convince it to open no matter what.A fanboy is a fanboy.

And the limit you were talking about? Dante has that, only a higher limit than that of Cloud's, and a lot of people would agree with that. (in fact, if you weren't ignoring the earlier posts by other people, they already did.) so, do mind other people, please.

I'm not ignoring other people, and I have the right to disagree.

Like I'm doing now

You said that Dante has a limit to match Cloud's? What do tell, is it? Dante's DT's are pretty powerful but just as limited.

And your calling me narrow minded? All I'm aguing is that this is a fair fight, you seem to think that Dante is stronger no matter what and that him beating Cloud is a "Known Fact"
It isn't a "Fact" that is your opinion.

Your post there is the picture of closed mindedness.

Cloud's new sword wasn't designed with Materia slots

See those notches in the completed sword(the ones on sword #3)? There are 7 materia slots on each side of the true blade.

 

[Kaihedgie]

Are you so sure they're actually Materia slots or just purely cosmetic details?

And in any case, you're tryin' to pit Cloud against Dante using Materia. Dante only needs to use his sword for combat and nothing else, yet you need to have Cloud use his Materia just to match him. Take away the Materia and he'll stand even less of a chance against Dante.

 

[Black Angel]

^I think they are materia slots and anyway Dante has his DT so Cloud gets Materia. Even fight that way, that's all I'm saying.

And I still say they are evenly matched swordsmen.

 

[Kaihedgie]

^I think they are materia slots and anyway Dante has his DT so Cloud gets Materia. Even fight that way, that's all I'm saying.

And I still say they are evenly matched swordsmen.

Dante's Devil Trigger was something he was born with. It's his very own power he obtained after his sword bathed in his blood. Materia is an external power source, but Dante's DT is internal, meaning he can call upon for it when the time arises without having to obtain anything to be able to use it. I'm talkin' about usin' only your sword and your abilities, nothing else. No materia, no Devil Arms. Nothing but the sword you're carryin'.

 

[Black Angel]

Dante's Devil Trigger was something he was born with. It's his very own power he obtained after his sword bathed in his blood. Materia is an external power source, but Dante's DT is internal, meaning he can call upon for it when the time arises without having to obtain anything to be able to use it. I'm talkin' about usin' only your sword and your abilities, nothing else. No materia, no Devil Arms. Nothing but the sword you're carryin'.

^Not the point. It doesn't matter if Dante was born with it or not, its still a super human power he only gets cause his dad just happens to be a demon. If Dante get's no DT and it was a fight of just swords, even match.

But you seem to want to remove materia just because Cloud wasn't born with it? Materia is only a tool that contains knowledge of how to cast a spell, Cloud casts the actual spell with his own MP wich is something every human character was born with.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

^ :huh: But the match is purely Dante vs Cloud, therefore you can't deny him of his DT power...

 

[Black Angel]

^That isn't what I was saying, I'm just contradicting his point about DT being a natural born power.

It is, but so is cloud's MP. And the materia=devil arms.

And besides, officially Dante gets no DT unless he has a devil arm equipped. And don't tell me that isn't true cause we have never seen DT without a devil arm. Except in DMC 2 wich isn't cannon.

That would mean that DT is just as unnatural as materia. They both draw upon an inner power but without the devil arm/materia, no power.

@Kaihedgie= So you want to argue just sword skill? Advent children, the fight between Cloud and Sephiroth. Cloud is super fast and can practically fly.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

^ My mistake. You know you could have just said so to me in a PM or VM and I would have deleted my post

 

[Black Angel]

^I just wanted to make shure I covered all the bases here.:lol:

Materia works the same way(basicly) as a devil arm. It only contains the "How" for spellcasting, not the acctual spell.

And I know that Cloud could cast without Materia because the same spells exist in other FF games where the charecter's don't need materia, just thier inner power.

If Dante gets DT without a devil arm, Cloud gets spells without materia. Because they work the same way. They only bring out what is already within.

So cloud keeps his magic, Dante gets DT and this fight is even.

 

[Heron]

If i think about it and consider al abillities moves etc. the i might say that dante would win the fight!
I mean, he can teleport behind the enemy(dmc4 trickster) and Juggernaut makes him almost invulnerable!
Also he can almost stop time with his silver speed style (or so....^^; the one in dmc3)!
So I think dante would win rather than cloud!
Sorry for my bad english!(im a german...^^)

 

[Black Angel]

^Don't worry about it.:lol:

And those are good points, I forgot about Quicksilver.:lol:

See this is a more valid argument than just saying"Ur a noob, Dante would win" like some people did.

But once again, Materia can put Dante to sleep, or immobilize him, or freeze him, or any number of things that would be just as incapacitating as Dante's styles.

 

[Zato-OW]

Dante would lose due to summons but its not a fair fight on both ends. Besides this has been done before and everyone thought Cloud would win due to materia.

 

[Kaihedgie]

^Don't worry about it.:lol:

And those are good points, I forgot about Quicksilver.:lol:

See this is a more valid argument than just saying"Ur a noob, Dante would win" like some people did.

But once again, Materia can put Dante to sleep, or immobilize him, or freeze him, or any number of things that would be just as incapacitating as Dante's styles.

You forget about Dante's resistance to things that humans would easily succumb to. And like I said, this a duel between swords only. No materia, no other devil arms. It's just a pure swordfight, that's it. All you keep on insisting is that Cloud would win using Materia. Even with Materia it still would not work. Dante has fought against demons of every sort and element. Even if you freeze him, he won't stay frozen for long.

Also, I'd also like to point more body resistence, though some of it was covered

Cloud was stabbed at least twice. The first time around, he only survived due to Hojo havin' salvaged his body and experimented on him. Dante on the other hand, when he was stabbed, it only awakened his Devil Trigger. Sephiroth on the other hand would have died by Cloud's hands if Sephiroth hadn't fallen into that Mako after having been stabbed. Dante on the other hand, gets stabbed by his own sword on occasion, and simply brushes it off. He has an enhanced healing factor and far more stamina.

Even with the power of condensed magic, it's not enough to defeat Dante. He has even bested his own brother, who happened to be a better swordsman than he was. All I keep hearin' from you to support Cloud is 'if he had Materia'. Suppose he didn't have Materia? Yet I don't remember any of us sayin' 'what if Dante had his Devil Arms' And we are pretty much talkin' about who is the better swordsman, not who more adept at magic. Keep it down to the Rebellion and First Tsurugi only, after all, we're sayin' as to who would win in a swordfight. The topic was merely about asking who would win in a swordfight only. It was under my impression that swordfights didn't include using enhancements or any other weapon than the sword you already have. Sorry if I offend ya, but to me, your support for Cloud borders on fanboyism.

Devil Triggers are not the same as Materia. Devils can Devil Trigger when the need arises, and it doesn't involve external sources. It's merely a transformation boost. Materia is the same as Devil Arms however because it IS the magic of Final Fantasy VII, not the 'how to' catalyst. In Advent Children, it is obviously shown that all magic is performed with a Materia. Kadaj abusing that scattering energy homing attack is a pure example of this. In addition, when Yazoo and Loz were about to die, you could see all of the Materia they had embedded in their arms. Sephiroth also uses Materia to cast his spells. Yes it is there. In the flashback sequence of the game, you can check his equipment where he has Materia that he refuses to unequip

 

[Zato-OW]

Well Honestly we have yet to see what true sword skills Dante has because in cut scenes its always something quick and flashy but with Cloud its a long intense battle. They really need to show off longer sword battles in DMC cut scenes. But if its just them two going at it with out using any powers and its just a sword fight then I'm not sure who would win. But if its anything goes with powers then Cloud will win and or Dante in some cases. They both look very equal in my eyes.

 

[Kaihedgie]

Well Honestly we have yet to see what true sword skills Dante has because in cut scenes its always something quick and flashy but with Cloud its a long intense battle. They really need to show off longer sword battles in DMC cut scenes. But if its just them two going at it with out using any powers and its just a sword fight then I'm not sure who would win. But if its anything goes with powers then Cloud will win and or Dante in some cases. They both look very equal in my eyes.

I repeat once more, Cloud cannot win. He would tire out long before Dante would. Cloud is a mere human infused with Mako while Dante a half-demon without much greater healing factor and stamina. As for speed, I remember seeing that fight between Dante and Vergil in the prologue of DMC3. The two were swinging their swords so fast that it formed a sphere of intense pressure around their bodies, so intense that not only was it fairly visible, but even stopped the rain from touching them. I haven't seen anything like that regarding Cloud and Sephiroth.

 

[Rebellion327]

I'm not ignoring other people, and I have the right to disagree.

Like I'm doing now

You said that Dante has a limit to match Cloud's? What do tell, is it? Dante's DT's are pretty powerful but just as limited.

And your calling me narrow minded? All I'm aguing is that this is a fair fight, you seem to think that Dante is stronger no matter what and that him beating Cloud is a "Known Fact"
It isn't a "Fact" that is your opinion.

Your post there is the picture of closed mindedness.

See those notches in the completed sword(the ones on sword #3)? There are 7 materia slots on each side of the true blade.

Whoah, i'm enjoying this arguing-with-you thingy...I hope you don't take the stuff I'm talking about personally...:$

Well, i'm saying its a fact since a lot of people agree, and believe that he would whup Cloud's backside. So, how about fighting without Materia, hmm? Just Dante with Rebellion, Ebony and Ivory, and Cloud with his sword?

I mean, Dante is immensely powerful, and there is no one who could still match up to him. He doesn't even take anything seriously, so who knows his limits? no one, i think. He even trashed Satan and walked out of the fight in one smiling, cocky piece. While Cloud, is just a bio-engineered SOLDIER, he still has to match up with Dante's natural birthright powers.

 

[Black Angel]

^I'm trying to say that WITH materia this is a fair fight.

Why wouldn't Cloud use it? "Engage your enemy on no ones terms but yours."

You forget about Dante's resistance to things that humans would easily succumb to. And like I said, this a duel between swords only. No materia, no other devil arms. It's just a pure swordfight, that's it. All you keep on insisting is that Cloud would win using Materia. Even with Materia it still would not work. Dante has fought against demons of every sort and element. Even if you freeze him, he won't stay frozen for long.

Also, I'd also like to point more body resistence, though some of it was covered

Cloud was stabbed at least twice. The first time around, he only survived due to Hojo havin' salvaged his body and experimented on him. Dante on the other hand, when he was stabbed, it only awakened his Devil Trigger. Sephiroth on the other hand would have died by Cloud's hands if Sephiroth hadn't fallen into that Mako after having been stabbed. Dante on the other hand, gets stabbed by his own sword on occasion, and simply brushes it off. He has an enhanced healing factor and far more stamina.

Even with the power of condensed magic, it's not enough to defeat Dante. He has even bested his own brother, who happened to be a better swordsman than he was. All I keep hearin' from you to support Cloud is 'if he had Materia'. Suppose he didn't have Materia? Yet I don't remember any of us sayin' 'what if Dante had his Devil Arms' And we are pretty much talkin' about who is the better swordsman, not who more adept at magic. Keep it down to the Rebellion and First Tsurugi only, after all, we're sayin' as to who would win in a swordfight. The topic was merely about asking who would win in a swordfight only. It was under my impression that swordfights didn't include using enhancements or any other weapon than the sword you already have. Sorry if I offend ya, but to me, your support for Cloud borders on fanboyism.

Devil Triggers are not the same as Materia. Devils can Devil Trigger when the need arises, and it doesn't involve external sources. It's merely a transformation boost. Materia is the same as Devil Arms however because it IS the magic of Final Fantasy VII, not the 'how to' catalyst. In Advent Children, it is obviously shown that all magic is performed with a Materia. Kadaj abusing that scattering energy homing attack is a pure example of this. In addition, when Yazoo and Loz were about to die, you could see all of the Materia they had embedded in their arms. Sephiroth also uses Materia to cast his spells. Yes it is there. In the flashback sequence of the game, you can check his equipment where he has Materia that he refuses to unequip

^Read my first post. I said Dante with devil arms vrs Cloud with Materia. This is not a pure swordfight, so go back and look at what actually said. Those are the rules off this match up.

And further more, the glowing materia is just an effect, the game clearly tells you that materia possesses the knowledge of the ancients, the actual spells are cast with his own MP.

You have no proof that Dante can devil trigger without a devil arm, but I didn't say Dante can't use it, but you don't want to give Cloud materia. Even though it is the same.

And I know Sephiroth uses materia, Fanboy remember?

repeat once more, Cloud cannot win. He would tire out long before Dante would. Cloud is a mere human infused with Mako while Dante a half-demon without much greater healing factor and stamina. As for speed, I remember seeing that fight between Dante and Vergil in the prologue of DMC3. The two were swinging their swords so fast that it formed a sphere of intense pressure around their bodies, so intense that not only was it fairly visible, but even stopped the rain from touching them. I haven't seen anything like that regarding Cloud and Sephiroth.

Are you really trying to say that that fight was so fast you couldn't see their swords?

Are you kidding me? You can see every cut. I actually train as a swordsman, and I'm telling you Dante is not super fast with his sword and he doesn't actually use any practical moves.

If it whereat for his devil powers, a normal human could out-sword Dante. I know a few of them.

 

[Zato-OW]

In that cut scene you could see exactly everything they were doing. For the tire part, Dante tired out while fighting Vergil on top of the tower and inside it, he can recover but he still gets tired like a human would. It took a good while before Cloud tired out while fighting both Kadaj then Sephiroth(Not to mention the fight he had before that) one after another and he had a bigger environment jumping and running up tall buildings. Like I said with Materia Cloud would probably win. Now Dante is obviously stronger but like I said for the last time with Materia Cloud could win this fight. Besides this is two different worlds and in FF they have different standards with humans as in Tifa would own Lady and they are both human and probably have the same experience but she is just far stronger. Now there is no human in DMC that strong. So the standards are very different.

 

[Black Angel]

^Good point again, Cloud never tires easily.

But I don't know what you mean by "different standards"

I mean, I know what you mean. But I don't think that matters.

They are both super human.