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Are they still working on DmC?

Dark Drakan

Well-known Member
Admin
Moderator
And so far the Xbone's launch is sounding kinda iffy. My friend alone over at Brothers Insanity had several full system crashes and then the UI was freezing and crashing every two minutes >.<

My newsfeed has been full of friends getting them and no issues besides a little trouble getting sound from TV shows through it but that has since been resolved. Heard reports some people are having some issues with Day one update causing some problems but none that I have heard personally. Live did crash momentarily and servers went down (along with Outlook) with all the activity that suddenly hit it but that was resolved within the hour too so essentially it seems to be a 'relativity' trouble free launch currently in comparison to past launches.

There is always some issues at launch which are expected but when compared with some past launches it seems they have gone ok for both companies and both wished each other well. Sony also had issues from reports of bricked consoles from updates, Blue light of death, damaged units being shipped and HDMI issues (most of which were easy fixes some are having to be sent back for replacements). Though less than 1% of the consoles have been affected it is around 10,000 according to Sony. This is why I have stopped preordering consoles now until issues are ironed out.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Yeah, a network crash is pretty much a given for anything. Same thing happened on PS4 with everyone jumping on the PSN right away.

For now it seems about right with a launch, like PS4's .04% failure rate so far, but holy crap did my buddy get a ton of wrong on his system >.<
 

Dark Drakan

Well-known Member
Admin
Moderator
Yeah, a network crash is pretty much a given for anything. Same thing happened on PS4 with everyone jumping on the PSN right away.

For now it seems about right with a launch, like PS4's .04% failure rate so far, but holy crap did my buddy get a ton of wrong on his system >.<

Seem as though both were essentially rushed out and were not ready for release im quite impressed that more things havent gone wrong right off the bat. Cant stress test networks with traffic numbers like that so its understandable networks go down.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
I just honestly hope the Xbox One is made from quality parts this time, so it doesn't friggin' melt. I can't count the number of customers I know Microsoft lost to Sony because of people who were unlucky enough to go through numerous systems because of Red Rings :nailbiting:

Their 3 Year Red Ring Warranty was nice, but...that doesn't quite remedy consistently losing your system for weeks on end.
 

Dark Drakan

Well-known Member
Admin
Moderator
I just honestly hope the Xbox One is made from quality parts this time, so it doesn't friggin' melt. I can't count the number of customers I know Microsoft lost to Sony because of people who were unlucky enough to go through numerous systems because of Red Rings :nailbiting:

Their 3 Year Red Ring Warranty was nice, but...that doesn't quite remedy consistently losing your system for weeks on end.

I dont think they will make that mistake again in a hurry, hurt their rep a lot and cost them A LOT of money in repairs and replacement consoles. Least they were repaired for free (even outside warranty and mine was gone for 6 days and went to Germany and back). :laugh:

Would be inexcusable if the same thing happened again and people would totally lose faith in them (those that hadnt already). When the consoles are meant to have 10 year life cycles they should be built to last at least that.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
It is trivial. The game was perfectly fine at 30fps, and because of it, we got awesome animated backgrounds, too.
Yes, so trivial, in fact, that no one ever mentioned it. And as nice as the moving backgrounds are they hardly make an impact on the game play. Once, that's the only time the Inception effect comes into play and beyond that it's eye candy, hardly worth the sacrificing of something that people have come to expect. Those extra frames matter to the people who play the game more than once, especially because they play other game of the same genre and they can rely on the extra frames and moving from one to the other difference has an impact. It happens every time I go from Bayonetta or DMC3 to DmC.

Also, it's not a solid 30fps but if the game still runs fine then at what point is it to low?
With the game's difficulty the frame rate is not so handicapping that it becomes unbeatable or unplayable, DMC3 didn't have turbo mode till the special edition and it was great then, too, but that was a PS2 game. To take steps back and defending it because it's prettier is counter progressive. What's the next thing we sacrifice as long as it looks pretty?

I feel the same way about DMC4 removing functions from the styles. Yes, there are new functions and moves, but there was no need to remove the old ones just to accommodate the new. Taking a step back right after you took one forward is like not moving at all, as 'after school special' as that sounds. With everything DMC4 decided to leave behind, however, made it less than stellar. Not sure what it is or how it happened, all I know is that DMC3 is better than 4, even if I can't put my finger on the exact reason.

I suppose that it doesn't matter now. If the next DMC game has the same design choices they'll be able to keep the high frame rate and busy environments. They certainly have the processing power now.

If people are mad at the PC version allowing 60fps, then they should get mad about it being able to play at higher resolutions, too. I mean, c'mon, you come to expect the PC games having the capability to have better performance than console releases.
Not sure this one matters, my TV only goes up to 1080, should I be mad at my TV? But, yes, as a PS3 owner I am mad that the 360 version doesn't have those cracks in the shadows and that there is in fact a difference.

But, it's wasn't an "issue," it was a design choice :/
Style over substance? Not the first time it's been done in DMC.

However, we're also arguing on the subject of something complained about by the same people who b!tched about something as trivial as weapon icons always being on screen - "Oh cool, so now they think we can't remember what weapons we have on."
Yes, there were a lot of frivolous complains about the game and because of those the serious complains can be thrown in to that pile and be undermined.

For example:
Serious critic: There is no lock on.
Diminishing retort: You're just mad about the hair.

Works the other way, too. Not a one way street on this one. I've seen it used in all manner of fashion.

My point here is that the people who complain about the game in a real level are the ones with serious critiques and those same critiques are appropriated by people who have moronic issues with the title and trow them all together devaluing the validity of the former's criticism.

Buncha savages in this town, I tell yah.
Fandom is a strange phenomena and when you add the anonymity of the internet you get lower standards of behavior and reasoning, that much is true.


EDIT:
Damn... went on a tirade again.

Sorry about that but I do feel that the lowered frame rate was a genuine and valid critique on the game so I had a bit to say.


Final Fantasy does indeed look good, and I'm not sure what kind of gameplay mechanic it is, if its really just a series of scripted sequences with rpg battles or what not, but even so, I'll be surprised if its 1080p and 60fps, I'm positive it will 30fps when its released... I'd argue compared to the PC version infamous doesn't look that much better than DmC, and we still dont' know if its running at 30 fps or 60 fps.
I don't believe that.

While I'm sure it's possible to have a computer with such power that it rivals or tops new gen I don't believe that there will unable to get high graphic performances on the new councils that we are talking about. I saw the PS4 and X1 at comic con, they were gorgeous, and those were the first titles on the platforms, with more hands on the games will improve in look and performance.

As for the definition exceeding 1080? I don't think they were design to. highest television definition is 1080 so there'd be no planning to exceed it when designing the devices. No different than making the NES run at 1080 when there are no TVs that go that high.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Yes, so trivial, in fact, that no one ever mentioned it. And as nice as the moving backgrounds are they hardly make an impact on the game play. Once, that's the only time the Inception effect comes into play and beyond that it's eye candy, hardly worth the sacrificing of something that people have come to expect. Those extra frames matter to the people who play the game more than once, especially because they play other game of the same genre and they can rely on the extra frames and moving from one to the other difference has an impact. It happens every time I go from Bayonetta or DMC3 to DmC.

Also, it's not a solid 30fps but if the game still runs fine then at what point is it to low?

Not a solid 30fps, the same way the games you're talking about never run at a full 60fps during combat. Everything hangs around the upper 50s at best when there's action on, and that's still pretty damn smooth.

Even DmC's slight dips are a negligible number of frames, and not for any sustained period.

People only truly have a right to complain about framerate issues when it causes legitimate stuttering, which is like...I dunno, 20 and below.

The problem is you're sorta ranting about something that was a design choice for making DmC different from the classics and not just all about the combat, but story and presentation as well. It's just the way it is.

You can keep complaining about how going from a 60fps game to a 3fps game is jarring, and sure it is, but that doesn't really count as some sort of negative for DmC. The game runs fine and is still entertaining.

With the game's difficulty the frame rate is not so handicapping that it becomes unbeatable or unplayable, DMC3 didn't have turbo mode till the special edition and it was great then, too, but that was a PS2 game. To take steps back and defending it because it's prettier is counter progressive. What's the next thing we sacrifice as long as it looks pretty?

I'm not defending it because it's "simply prettier." I just recognize what the game was going for, while everyone else just does nothing but b!tch, b!tch, b!tch about how it doesn't hold up to the coveted DMC3. F#ck their stupid PR, but DmC was a great game, and still a great Devil May Cry - just in different ways.

all I know is that DMC3 is better than 4, even if I can't put my finger on the exact reason.

I'd say the environment wasn't as memorable, and probably giving Dante access to everything via a clunky control scheme.

Not sure this one matters, my TV only goes up to 1080, should I be mad at my TV? But, yes, as a PS3 owner I am mad that the 360 version doesn't have those cracks in the shadows and that there is in fact a difference.

No, I'm saying that being p!ssy about what a PC can do for games is sorta pointless. We all know they can do a helluva lot more for a game these days.

Yes, there were a lot of frivolous complains about the game and because of those the serious complains can be thrown in to that pile and be undermined.

For example:
Serious critic: There is no lock on.
Diminishing retort: You're just mad about the hair.

Works the other way, too. Not a one way street on this one. I've seen it used in all manner of fashion.

My point here is that the people who complain about the game in a real level are the ones with serious critiques and those same critiques are appropriated by people who have moronic issues with the title and trow them all together devaluing the validity of the former's criticism.

I've never done that, because I do understand the valid complaints, but sometimes even what sounds like a valid complaint is useless simply because they are complaining about something that is different for a reason.

However, I think largely there's this problem with people thinking their complaint about something they just don't like is also supposed to be accepted as valid critique.

I don't like at all how restricted I feel in the classic DMCs because of their remnant Resident Evil DNA, but I made it work. That's just my complaint on something I don't like, but I deal with it because it still works for the game, it just takes getting used to. Even a lack of lock on ended up not being much of an issue in DmC once you knew how the game's mechanics work. I'd love a Dark Souls-style lock, but I'm able to play just fine without one.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
This could get too lengthy for the sake of the thread so I'll try to keep it to a minimum.

People only truly have a right to complain about framerate issues when it causes legitimate stuttering, which is like...I dunno, 20 and below.
The issue isn't the stuttering, it's that there are half as many frames in the game to react to. When split second reactions make the difference and you are able to react at fractions of a second that missing frame make a difference.

The problem is you're sorta ranting about something that was a design choice...
No, let's not get into the story because what it gives isn't worth what it took.

You can keep complaining about how going from a 60fps game to a 3fps game is jarring...
It's certainly not a positive.

Is it entertaining? Sure. Does it work? Well, it certainly runs. The problem is that there are less things here than there should be, that it provides less than the titles that came before and it's acceptable. It's counter progressive but it's ok. Shouldn't things get better as we progress?


I'm not defending it because it's "simply prettier." I just recognize what the game was going for, while eve...
DmC is an ok game and it's just a bit better than 4 which is not that great. There is a lot of good in the game but to just ignore the bad will leave us in arrested development striving for mediocrity.

With all the advancements the game made it also made error and simple mistakes that kept it from been outstanding, not just the frame rate.

No, I'm saying that being p!ssy about what a PC can do for games is ...
And I'm saying that if the frame rate was such a triviality there wouldn't be any reactions to the PC's higher rate, good or bad. However, there was which indicates a present concern over it.


I've never done that, because I do understand the valid complaints...
That wasn't an accusation, it was a statement of experiences I've had talking about this game. I brought it up because I don't think been hard on the game for the frame rate isn't unreasonable as other complains that have been brought up.

However, I think largely there's this problem with people thinking their complaint about something they just don't like is also supposed to be accepted as valid critique.
Yes, there is.

I don't like at all how restricted I feel in the classic DMCs because of their remnant Resident Evil DN...
You shouldn't. If something bothers you or you find something lacking say it, don't just let it be and put a passive attitude towards it. If people didn't call Capcom on the issues with the camera then it wouldn't have improved with every iteration.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
The issue isn't the stuttering, it's that there are half as many frames in the game to react to. When split second reactions make the difference and you are able to react at fractions of a second that missing frame make a difference.

This would actually be an issue if the game required 60fps-like reaction time to 30fps animations. However, it's 30fps reaction time for 30fps animations, so it's really not as big a deal as you make it out to be. This seems to be falling into a difficulty category, when that is totally aside from what I'm talking about, and I'm sick and tired of getting into bitchfests about DMC's difficulty.

Is it entertaining? Sure. Does it work? Well, it certainly runs. The problem is that there are less things here than there should be, that it provides less than the titles that came before and it's acceptable. It's counter progressive but it's ok. Shouldn't things get better as we progress?

Just because it's different doesn't mean it isn't still good. There's no list of "shoulds" in this, they wanted to try out a bunch of new things, and so they did, which unfortunately mean they couldn't keep some other things.

DmC is an ok game and it's just a bit better than 4 which is not that great. There is a lot of good in the game but to just ignore the bad will leave us in arrested development striving for mediocrity.

Or maybe if everybody stopped sh!tting on the game for one measly second and bothered to actually look at the good, we wouldn't be in arrested development, because hey! DMC was getting stale. Maybe that's why DMC4 was bad to you, because it just tried to be DMC3.5, because apparently they're only allowed to just make DMC3 again and again. Even when they tried something new with Nero (which was really awesome), people sh!t on it because he wasn't Dante, and he played differently.

And I'm saying that if the frame rate was such a triviality there wouldn't be any reactions to the PC's higher rate, good or bad. However, there was which indicates a present concern over it.

No, all it really indicates is that the people who don't like the game just won't f#cking let it go. And people b!tching about DmC being better on PC is not an isolated incident - that happens all the time with PC ports that are actually worth a damn, and not half-assed like DMC3's. Complaints about the PC version being better are literally nothing at all new, it's just a trend that exists because PCs have the capability for such higher performance.

You shouldn't. If something bothers you or you find something lacking say it, don't just let it be and put a passive attitude towards it. If people didn't call Capcom on the issues with the camera then it wouldn't have improved with every iteration.
Hokai, except in the past (not here) any other time I've mentioned some of the things I like that DmC did better than DMC, like how the classics made me feel restricted, I'm just a f#cking nublet who doesn't know how to play DMC properly, and I'm the reason why "DMC is dead."

The attitude I've garnered over all this bullshit was cultivated by all the crap I endured for loving the series in its entirety, but being happy for DmC's existence and also not being some dooder who prided himself on super-fantabulous balls hard gameplay.

I'm sorry if I went a little overboard. I'm droppin' out of this, don't feel like continuing a back and forth on this :/
 
I don't believe that.

While I'm sure it's possible to have a computer with such power that it rivals or tops new gen I don't believe that there will unable to get high graphic performances on the new councils that we are talking about. I saw the PS4 and X1 at comic con, they were gorgeous, and those were the first titles on the platforms, with more hands on the games will improve in look and performance.

As for the definition exceeding 1080? I don't think they were design to. highest television definition is 1080 so there'd be no planning to exceed it when designing the devices. No different than making the NES run at 1080 when there are no TVs that go that high.
Berto, the latest PC graphics cards are substantially more powerful than the next gen consoles, that's just a fact. I mean if you saw a truly next gen PC, I mean something running 4k monitors, 3d vision, 2x GTX titans, you'd really be blown away. That being said, the amount of power PS4 is offering for 399 is pretty damn impressive and makes it a definite purchase for me down the line for the exclusives.

P.S. Those DmC framerate comparisons are a bit unfair, because during cut scenes they might have tried to do a more cinematic look at 24 frames per second, so yeah it shouldn't dip below that, but it did.
 
Last edited:

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
May I throw my own take into this?

Since we're on the topic of DMC4 vs DMC3 vs DmC...note I'm not comparing them or saying which is best but analyze what both did.

I feel the progression from DMC3 to DMC4 was a natural one in terms of evolution but I do agree its main issue was the fact it took away functions and feats such as wall running, body surfing, Wild Stomp, and most of all Crazy Combos (although its slightly integrated into the moveset of some weapons) and less weapons. However, it did add a whole lot of extra improvements over DMC3 such as the ability to charge guns without the need of Gunslinger, DT charged attacks, replaced that useless Royal Guard move Ultimate with Dreadnaught (whether you liked Royal Guard or Dreadnaught you can't deny its a hell of a lot better than Ultimate) and rebounding or as its called Flipper (although they could've just did what you can do in games like Sengoku Basara and press the jump button to rebound after getting knocked down).

I do agree you don't need to have EVERYTHING available to you on the fly but you should have the option to use as much as options as you can and I find replacing the d-pad for inventory/maps/etc to gaining access to use more than one style at once is far more beneficial. I mean don't you wish you can Wall Run off a wall, pull off Rainstorm, and only to land on them to surf on their bodies.

I lost track of what else I was going to say........

I'll get back to you guys later.
 

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
I forgot what I was going to say but I'm going to say this.

Considering a lot of the design decisions for DmCs combat changes were by Itsuno most likely such ideas may carry over to DMC5 or DmC2 if either are made.

However I noticed that a lot of the decisions in DmC seems as if Itsuno was trying what he wanted to do with DMC2 again.

-Removal of lock-on or a lock-on mechanic (DMC2 used auto lock on and DmC had a soft lock system)
-Gun alterations (DMC2 Guns were too overpowered, DmC guns were not that useful or less useful than before)
-A button dedicated for dodging (2 buttons in DmC's case)
-Larger open environments (although that could be NT's decision but that is one thing DmC and DMC2 had)
-Sucky boss fights (just kidding)
-Easier difficulty compared to previous games (you can't deny it)

Personally they should look into taking more ideas from DMC2 because despite its general hatred by the fanbase it personally had the best ideas (some of which were used in later games) from a gameplay standpoint.

I'll take DMC2 challenge rooms over the secret missions anyday.


Fighting 2 Argosax at once is far more fun that racing to the finish or doing some lame quest or mastering blocking/parrying.

Also....I mean come on this looks awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5auKAjPlMAw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSD2sp5xoBY

Dante was swinging swords with his feet before Raiden made it cool.


Plus Twosome Time with a Shotgun.....beast.

 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
P.S. Those DmC framerate comparisons are a bit unfair, because during cut scenes they might have tried to do a more cinematic look at 24 frames per second, so yeah it shouldn't dip below that, but it did.
Since when did you expect the skeptics to ever be fair?
 
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