Anyone remember Devil's Lair?

[Dark Drakan]

There is difference between multimillion franchise like CoD and niche games like DMC. CoD devs wont even notice if somebody hates any changes they make to the franchise, because couple of fans left, thousands of kids will still be there. Niche is different story. As much as somebody wants to believe otherwise niche games exists thanks to loyalty of the fan bases. Complete change in direction will lead to fan base split, and since niche games can't boast 30 mil sales it jeopardises whole franchise. We all know what happens to niche games without much fan-support, like we saw with Lords of Shadows, PoP reboot and Darksiders.

Unless a franchise does something to step out of that niche zone it will never expand its fanbase. It's fine to get a group of loyal fans who like your product but at some point those fans will likely move on if something else comes along. Hard to keep old fans happy while introducing more mainstream ideas to bring in wider range of fans. You may split a fanbase but if you can please both fans with games then you could essentially get best of both worlds.

With the amount of hate & internet memes directed at CoD I'm sure the developers are well aware of people views on the series. Hence why it's jumped from WWII, to Modern Day to Futuristic and all over the place. They are too busy trying to cater to ALL fans and ALL opinions that they forgot what made CoD become that multimillion franchise in the first place.

As a developer if you simply accepted every suggestion the fans made and didn't include your own knowledge and ideas I can guarantee the game would be awful. Would be so cluttered and like a 100 people giving you directions to a place from where they live, you wouldn't know what direction to go in to begin with.

Series has changed so much since the originals that were actually quite niche games being PC exclusive WWII titles (which at time weren't big yet). The sales have dipped and gamers opinions are changing but people still buy it who say they hate it so why would they stop doing the same thing over and over?

Compare CoD (original on PC) to latest and though formula is similar the game feels like something totally different. As much as people say that it's recycled every year (which it has been lately) it's changed A LOT from what it once was & in many people's eyes not for the better.

The TV adverts cater for the exact stereotype of CoD fans and there is a reason for that, those are the people who mindlessly purchase it every year. Same people who say how bad it is then rinse and repeat same thing the next year. Same thing that's starting to happen with Assassins Creed series already & heard nothing but abuse for Destiny lately yet read today that it's now hit 25 million players so more and more people are still playing it.

Developers are human and they do have feelings and lots will be unhappy with MANY aspects of their games when they release. Many will actively try and rectify these issues and see how they could make them better and criticism hurts a lot of them too, regardless of sales.

 

[Innsmouth]

With the amount of hate & internet memes directed at CoD I'm sure the developers are well aware of people views on the series. Hence why it's jumped from WWII, to Modern Day to Futuristic and all over the place. They are too busy trying to cater to ALL fans and ALL opinions that they forgot what made CoD become that multimillion franchise in the first place.

Series has changed so much since the originals that were actually quite niche games being PC exclusive WWII titles (which at time weren't big yet). The sales have dipped and gamers opinions are changing but people still buy it who say they hate it so why would they stop doing the same thing over and over?

Compare CoD (original on PC) to latest and though formula is similar the game feels like something totally different. As much as people say that it's recycled every year (which it has been lately) it's changed A LOT from what it once was & in many people's eyes not for the better.

The TV adverts cater for the exact stereotype of CoD fans and there is a reason for that, those are the people who mindlessly purchase it every year. Same people who say how bad it is then rinse and repeat same thing the next year. Same thing that's starting to happen with Assassins Creed series already.

I think it already happened to AC. But like I said, my point is that situation between niche games and games like AC or CoD is different. ITs just not the same when game sells 11 millions even at its lowest point. It still huge profit for Activision hens they just don't give a damn. And yes CoD devs probably notice hate, but for them CoD is golden goose that brings steady profit.
Game that always was in 1-2 millions range like DMC really can put them in red, when fan base splitters in two, simply from business point. And I think Capcom knows it and because of it reluctant to announce anything about franchise's future. From this point radical changes are mistake and something that jeopardises future decision about franchise. You know just as good as me, what happened to PoP after reboot.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I think it already happened to AC. But like I said, my point is that situation between niche games and games like AC or CoD is different. ITs just not the same when game sells 11 millions even at its lowest point. It still huge profit for Activision hens they just don't give a damn. And yes CoD devs probably notice hate, but for them CoD is golden goose that brings steady profit.
Game that always was in 1-2 millions range like DMC really can put them in red, when fan base splitters in two, simply from business point. And I think Capcom knows it and because of it reluctant to announce anything about franchise's future. From this point radical changes are mistake and something that jeopardises future decision about franchise. You know just as good as me, what happened to PoP after reboot.

Capcom aren't in the best situation financially, I think if they had the cash they would continue BOTH DMC & DmC & try to cater to BOTH sides as its doubling potential franchise sales. However as they haven't got that sort of cash flow they will be examining the sales & interest of both to see which is safest bet to work with next.

I don't think they want to annoy loyal fans of original as such but at same time they would like to try and branch out from the niche group of fans they have currently. It's a tough position to be in & in fighting between their fans won't help that decision. I do think the controversy with DmC was part of a sales plan to make old fans more excited for a "true" sequel (in their eyes) & more likely to want to purchase a title to fund their "side" of the franchise. Controversy breeds opinion & gets word of mouth spreading and that in turn breeds passion which = sales and they are hoping to stir the pot for both.

 

[Innsmouth]

Capcom aren't in the best situation financially, I think if they had the cash they would continue BOTH DMC & DmC & try to cater to BOTH sides as its doubling potential franchise sales. However as they haven't got that sort of cash flow they will be examining the sales & interest of both to see which is safest bet to work with next.

I don't think they want to annoy loyal fans of original as such but at same time they would like to try and branch out from the niche group of fans they have currently. It's a tough position to be in & in fighting between their fans won't help that decision. I do think the controversy with DmC was part of a sales plan to make old fans more excited for a "true" sequel (in their eyes) & more likely to want to purchase a title to fund their "side" of the franchise. Controversy breeds opinion & gets word of mouth spreading and that in turn breeds passion which = sales and they are hoping to stir the pot for both.

Sorry, but I don't think it can happens or it was the case. Yes they did indeed could continue both franchises. but no it wont double sales. Instead it raises cost in two and splits profit in two.
And honestly I genuinely think, they thought they could change opinion of original fans on DmC and keep pushing it in this direction ignoring original run and minority who disliked it. I think they didn't expect dislike for it to raise this high looking how smooth it went with Tomb Raider.
Simple problem is that Devil May Cry as franchise don't have enough fans to sustain 2 direction and you can't really expect niche game thats famous to be one, to change it position in market to mainstream.

 

[Gel]

Exactly. You're detached, cause you don't care. Your situation is not the same of her.
As I said, not everyone reacts the same. Evidently Cat was more fragile in her temper than most of us, so she took it worse. Although, I imagine she could have asked someone else to run the site in her stead. I asked her that too in the mail, but got no answer. Guess she just doesn't wanna talk about it.
Either way, I can see where she comes from.

It's more than that:
In her time, Cat did a lot for DMC fanbase: she allowed fans to have access to DMC media for free, translated mangas and DMC anime and all she got were insults and mockery.Not only that, but it seems she was already displeased with the direction DMC original series was taking, so DmC was probably another nail in the coffin: she was tired and DMC was not worthy of it.
The fact Devils-lair site didn't turn itself into 404 it's a miracle, since it was her who paid all site's expenses.

 

[Dark Drakan]

All she got were insults and mockery.Not only that, but it seems she was already displeased with the direction DMC original series was taking, so DmC was probably another nail in the coffin: she was tired and DMC was not worthy of it.
The fact Devils-lair site didn't turn itself into 404 it's a miracle, since it was her who paid all site's expenses.

I can understand that, the amount of people who simply can't accept other people's opinions and likes can become tiresome and it brings community as a whole down. Many people don't want to post for fear of the same mockery and insults & it's only the people who shout loudest that seem to be heard on forums. No-one should be afraid to voice their likes for fear of being ridiculed by other fans, it's the same franchise essentially even if it's another side of it & some refuse to accept it. Lots of time & effort is taken to cater to fans and some appreciation sometimes wouldn't go a miss.

If you start to feel like you are wasting your time then why would you bother putting the effort in? That's partly way it's so frustrating as an outsider to see fans arguing with each other and fighting. Steve built these forums for gamers who enjoy Devil May Cry to all come together and share in his love for the franchise. That was long before the franchise split the fanbase and for our community to be split too hurt us, as it was no longer a place of "likeminded" fans of a franchise but more like a battleground of opposing sides.

Which ever side of the franchise continues won't matter to Capcom all that much as they will still make money whether it's DMC, DmC or another franchise entirely that makes them cash. It's the communities that end up taking the brunt of the hurt & closing down rather than the publishers/developers & the arguments and in fighting hurts us more than them.

If people truly want change then take it up with Capcom/Ninja Theory etc. In an adult and mature manner of course, don't take it out on fans who simply don't think the same as you and prefer something different as that only hurts the fanbase. It's the venomous reputation of the fanbase you hear about before anything else in regards to the Devil May Cry franchise and one that I personally wasn't all that keen to join.

 

[V's patron]

I liked the site, they had same good fanfics like this series by a guy named dwarfkicker was awesome.

I browsed through the forums once but I wasn't as attached to it like I am here.

 

[Dark Drakan]

You help run a site where all things DevilMayCry isn't the sole focus.
I don't like DevilMayCry that much & you see which sections i spend my time here in.

Let me ask you this.
Would you build a forum or a site on something you had absolutely no interests in or lost every bit of interests in it whatsoever & that was the forum/site's sole focus, how long would you keep it running?
How long before it becomes tedious to you.

Yes sites should cater to as many as possible but if staff & its creators who's maintaining the site aren't as enthusiastic aren't passionate about the it anymore, members lose interests, then it all suffers.

@Dark Drakan
If the creator of Devils lair was a journalist or wanted to supply general gaming news, yes i'd agree.
But no, If DevilsLair has no passion for the remake & DevilsLair was built to specifically to focus on the DevilMayCry classics & there is no promise of a 5th, & discussions for the classics were drying up & overall interests was dropping.
What else is there to do.

See I've never been there so wasn't sure what the focus of the site was, assumed it was a Devil May Cry site for franchise as a whole. Only got what other people have said about the place and reasonings for it closing to go off.

If it was originally solely a site for the older games and they lost hope that another in that particular line of the franchise was coming then fair enough. Sounds far more reasonable than what others had suggested & simply shutting up shop because they didn't like new games and depriving a community who still enjoys the other titles in the franchise somewhere to converse.

We have shut down sites due to lack of interest and lack of activity/news on more games in the franchise so I can sympathise with that.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Sounds far more reasonable than what others had suggested & simply shutting up shop because they didn't like new games and depriving a community who still enjoys the other titles in the franchise somewhere to converse.

I completely agree. Though I'm guilty of not fully understanding the reasoning behind it, and passing off judgement too soon. Now that I can understand what happened, I'm also able to sympathise with the situation.

 

[Dark Drakan]

@Dark Drakan
It is sad when that happens to, that's why i don't think it's a good idea to create a site based on one subject especially when there's so many out there.

I mean really how long can people talk about 1 subject before it gets old.
Seriously I love SaintsRowIV but OMG going to a site day after day, talking about SaintsRowIV day after day gets old & tedious.
That's why i like General Discussion sections, it breaks up the repetitive conversation topics.

Also what could've been done is for the administrator/creator to expand the forum into something like more DevilMayCry fan fiction areas or open up discussion sections on classic DevilMayCry game mods.
An art section for the original DevilMayCry.

That way there's more sections that doesn't rely on up-to-date news & more sections for members.

Its not wise to only pick one game in a whole franchise to talk about as it limits your audience but at the same time its good to have a main focus too. A site that talks about too many varied subjects can be hard to create a community for as can also attract people who dislike what is meant to be your sites main focus. Not bad when those people who dislike the forum subject can freely converse with other members about other games and subjects but as its the Internet many simply end up arguing with others about their dislike of that game etc.

We toyed with the idea of a multi format overall gaming site with no particular game/franchise focus but decided there are far too many forums out there that offer the same and that have been around far longer and were already established. So your new community would only reach a limited audience who didnt already have a main site they went to. We even created a PC only forum some time ago (GreyViper) and just couldnt get it off the ground properly and ended up closing it due to lack of activity. Though didnt help that at the time I didnt have a gaming PC and had been out of the loop for some time.

 

[WolfOD64]

Both the best and darkest years of my time as a DMC fan were spent on that site.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I've heard legends of that site; both good and bad

 

[WolfOD64]

I've heard legends of that site; both good and bad

Take it from someone who spent far too much time and patience over on Devil's Lair, in both its hayday and its darkest hour:
For however bad things or how hostile the arguments get over here, it's a far more forgiving environment for fans than Devil's Lair ever was.

 

[Demi-fiend]

How so?

 

[Foxtrot94]

How so?

Read what berto said.

 

[V]

That site's been gone for ages, and yeah I was a member there.

As I recall the admin lost interest and some of the members moved here, probably the only active forum that was soley DMC related around. I wonder what exactly has killed off forums en masse. Most of the old forums I used to be a part of are gone or are shells of their former selves. I mod one that has survived since 2000, but it only survives now because I persuaded the admin to put the site on the back-end of a server he uses for other things after the previous admin retired in disgust with what CAPCOM had been doing with its games post-2004. It only exists because the site veterans want somewhere to rant. Same with the Snake Soup which I was going to for ages. And the communities of these places become insular and so full of in jokes newcomers are rare.

People say facebook killed forums but I don't think so. Maybe Skype or some other technology makes it less worthwhile to sit typing when you can just talk