Well with the right moves the right clothes and the right points distribution you won't need health items at all , also z soul makes a massive factor in it too
All about Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Super
- Thread starter Sparda's rejected son
- Start date
BTW i recently found out that DB:Kai's Soundtrack was replaced due to more than one of its tracks being plagiarised its the same guy who also plagiarised soundtrack for the Budokai games.
I was wondering if they've replaced ALL of the soundtrack from the newer DB:Kai boxsets.. because that would suck.. i kinda like the DB:Kai Soundtrack.
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From my understanding yes all of Kai's original Score was replaced with Z's (Japanese) score. Although its arrangement is bad in Kai. Personally Despite it being stolen music, I feel "BattlePoint Unlimited" is a kick ass song! When Trunks transforms in front of Freeza and this plays in the background. It's Orgasmic!
It would be fun to play many onlines games with my friends but I had to buy a Xbox One. Damn you Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate!
It would be fun to play many onlines games with my friends but I had to buy a Xbox One. Damn you Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate!
Rilgar
I fought the war but the war won't staaaahhhppp...
After about three months, wherein soemtimes I played Xenoverse for a whole damn day, I got the platinum trophy for PS4. Then, in my finite wisdom, I went and got it for PS3. Yay for more hellll. I love the game and all but the grind is the worst part.
I just prefer the calling it "Super Saiyan God" and the red hair one "Saiyan God" as in Goku is a Saiyan who has God ki and now his body has absorbed God ki and uses that into his SSj forms thus the hair colour change,i don't like blue hair at all! why not just keep Goku's hair Golden and just acknowledge the fact that he still has God powers? didn't Goku fight Beerus with Gold hair?
also i'm not really enjoying these new movies tbh gohan went from the strongest unfused character to the saiyan version of Yamcha in the revival of F movie he's so weak he needs to go super saiyan to fight a common freeza soldier and he looks so.. SO SO LAAAAAAAAAAAME!
WTF!? did chi-chi starve gohan for a year or what? i just hope the new Universe 6 arc brings back the badass Gohan!
P.S if you don't know what Universe 6 arc is its basically the next saga after Revival of F which has Beerus(the God of 7th universe) and Champa(the God of 6th universe)choose 5 fighters from their universe and fight.
also i'm not really enjoying these new movies tbh gohan went from the strongest unfused character to the saiyan version of Yamcha in the revival of F movie he's so weak he needs to go super saiyan to fight a common freeza soldier and he looks so.. SO SO LAAAAAAAAAAAME!
WTF!? did chi-chi starve gohan for a year or what? i just hope the new Universe 6 arc brings back the badass Gohan!
Of couse Gohan is weak. He's never enjoyed fighting just for the sake of a fight, like Goku or Vegeta, and he's certainly never had a consistent rival/sparring buddy to push him to get stronger, like, well, Goku and Vegeta, or Trunks and Goten. He only ever fought out of necessity because the world needed saving and his father wasn't around, or his father's strength wasn't enough (almost every single known bad guy they were expected to fight because they got advance notice, not so much Buu). The first and last time he ever enjoyed beating down his opponent, Cell self-destructed to blow up Earth and Goku sacrificed himself to stop that, so that got traumatized out of Gohan dumb-quick. His whole lifelong thing was becoming a scholar which is something Chi-Chi encouraged, though, so of course when he has downtime he's studying and not training.
It is jarring to see esp if anyone remembers DBZ: Rebirth of Fusion!! where he exploded Frieza with a punch to the gut, but it's not entirely out of character. It gets better if you imagine Frieza was getting revenge for that movie though.
what do you mean "of course he's weak"? do i have to remind you this supposed to the SAME gohan as this :-
Revvial of F doesn't even take place that many years after buu Saga.. there is no reason why he should be so weak that he has to Super saiyan just to beat a Freeza Solider and for that matter he shouldn't even need to transform as he has all the power he needs in base form.
I can buy Freeza getting a insanely new power up as strong as Goku's God form but Gohan being so weak is just bullcrap!
Did you read the rest of what I said? It'd help if you did.what do you mean "of course he's weak"? do i have to remind you this supposed to the SAME gohan as this :-
Revvial of F doesn't even take place that many years after buu Saga.. there is no reason why he should be so weak that he has to Super saiyan just to beat a Freeza Solider and for that matter he shouldn't even need to transform as he has all the power he needs in base form.
I can buy Freeza getting a insanely new power up as strong as Goku's God form but Gohan being so weak is just bullcrap!
At no point in the series is it shown that a Saiyan can just sit on their butt with the knowledge that "Well, I was strong before" to bail them out of the next fight. They need to train consistently to maintain or improve their power, and Gohan did not train. He slacked in his training to focus on his studies and on fatherhood, and when he was younger it was just studying. He lacks the fighting drive of Goku or Vegeta, he doesn't have a consistent rival or partner to push him to get stronger, and he certainly doesn't have the near-suicidal bent to willingly put himself in dangerous situations just to reach another form. It's not in his character. He only fights when he knows the world is in danger, no more and no less. Taking GT into account, hybrids in general don't have the same drive to train like full-blooded Saiyans do, and it costs them.
You're showing me that pic of Gohan elbowing Buu like it means what you're saying, when it highlights exactly the problem I'm mentioning. Wanna know why he got that Mystic power up to get all his power in base form? Because he wouldn't have unlocked his potential otherwise. It took serious training with Goku to even get to SS1. He wouldn't have trained further or pushed himself through serious rage and/or self-hate necessary to reach SS2, much less master it 24/7 like he did the first form. He's a pacifist by nature. So the Mystic power up is there so that he wouldn't have to go out-of-character to get that power, he kicked a little ass, and then he slacked off because the world wasn't threatened anymore, exactly like he did after Cell. If the circumstances were different maybe Gohan continuing to kick ass would make more sense. Like, maybe bring Future Gohan from Future Trunks's timeline and tell him "Frieza's back and he's stronger than the Androids", and that guy would train his ass off, Goku or no Goku.
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Did you read what i said? Revival of F takes place only a couple years after Buu Saga gohan had his potential unlocked by the Kai and he should be stronger than SSJ3&Gotenks in his base form!
an angry SSj2 Vegeta can pummel Beerus around but Gohan can't and in ROF he needs to go super saiyan to beat a puny freeza solider! WTF? gohan shouldn't need to go super saiyan AT ALL as old kai unlocked all of his powers.
This is just ridiculous! even if Gohan indeed did get weak in like 2-3 years.. being THIS WEAK is just complete B.S!
@VampireWicked Actually doing a bit of math, BOG is five years after the Buu Saga. The epilogue of Z is 10 years after Buu, and Pan was age four, but BOG has Pan as a fetus. ROF is a year after, like you said, and Pan is born, so she will still be age four at the end of Z. So, that's a combined 6 years of training that Vegeta and Goku had over Gohan.
@ROCKMAN X The SSj2 Vegeta that pushed back Beerus was a Vegeta that was still training even on Bulma's birthday in order to surpass Goku, because Goku's always been his rival. He just saw Bulma get smacked around by Beerus, and got a rage boost because of it (compare to Vegeta's rage boost when Super Perfect Cell killed Trunks for the lolz, and Kid Gohan vs 2nd Form Freeza after Krillin got horn-shanked). If Beerus smacked Chi-Chi in the face we might've seen a reaction from either Goku or Gohan on that level, but that didn't happen. Beerus was at 10% when SSj2 Vegeta caught him off-guard, tanked a punch, and started pushing him back. Beerus previously one-shotted Gohan, straight-up spanked Gotenks right out of his SSj1 form, and at 1% of his power he beat SSj3 Goku in two hits so not even any of those opponents earned the consideration Vegeta did. SSj2 Vegeta surpassed SSj3 Goku for that brief moment.
Individually, Mystic Gohan was stronger than SSj3 Gotenks, Base Super Buu or SSj3 Goku. We saw Super Buu absorb Gotenks, and then Gohan in-anime was "on-par" with him at best, and in the manga was just plain getting wrecked, so he's not stronger than both Buu and Gotenks literally combined. Goku came in, and in the anime Goku also fought "pretty evenly" with Super Buu 2, but in the manga Goku powered up to SSj3 only to get punched by Super Buu 2. When Gotenks defused inside Buu, Goku stated that "You're no threat, even Gohan can beat you on his own" (the dub line was "You don't plan on fighting me like that, do you?") so terms of power-up, Gohan caught up with the SSj3-tier opponents individually, but best believe if anyone stronger than that were to face him he'd get a curbstomping. So yeah, BOG SSj2 Vegeta would own Buu Saga Gohan, BOG SSj2 Vegeta vs Gohan after five years of slacking off is no contest.
If you got a problem with the fact that Beerus is a literal God of Destruction with an appropriately Godly power level and was motivated into using 10% of his power against a guy with a near-suicidal work ethic and the drive to get stronger, while you're stanning a character whose Mystic form was achieved by literally sitting around for hours doing nothing and having an old man do it for him (he didn't even effing meditate by himself, he just needed to sit still), you take that up with Toriyama. Otherwise you're just serving to prove my point. Gohan didn't train to maintain his power, unlocked or not, and he suffered for it. That's consistent with his character and consistent with just about any form of exercise in real life. He didn't do a lick of serious training for 7 years after Cell, so he had a hard time against Dabura when he should've killed him. He unlocked all his latent power during the Buu saga, but potential doesn't mean a damn thing if it's squandered, and he didn't train for 6 years so of course the other characters who are shown training their asses off are shown in a better light. Gohan doesn't get credit for the stuff he's not doing.
as a note: Gohan could totally go Super Saiyan Blue-- Vegeta doing it shows there's no restriction on who can receive God Ki, but does Gohan want to do it? and is that a good idea? are the more important questions to be asked. The answer for "does he want to ascend to a new form" has pretty consistently always been "No, unless he knows the world is in danger and Goku can't just bail everyone out" but that isn't a guarantee. That was his drive to go SSj1, and he still didn't want to actually fight Cell when the time came! He still told Cell "Yo, you have to get me really angry but I don't like being angry and I also don't like fighting so I don't think you should do that", which resulted in everyone else getting their ass beat, and Android 16 getting killed right in front of his face. Then right after he reached SSj2 he turned into a cocky brat and that got Goku killed. When he reached Mystic form he taunted Buu with "Fight you? No, I'm going to destroy you" and then not only didn't destroy Buu whatsoever but let Gotenks and Piccolo get absorbed and that cost him the fight. So no, it's very much not a good idea for him to go Super Saiyan Blue unless he developed as a character and not only doesn't let his power get to his head, but works to maintain it so he's not caught off guard. Both things are not happening anytime soon.
@ROCKMAN X The SSj2 Vegeta that pushed back Beerus was a Vegeta that was still training even on Bulma's birthday in order to surpass Goku, because Goku's always been his rival. He just saw Bulma get smacked around by Beerus, and got a rage boost because of it (compare to Vegeta's rage boost when Super Perfect Cell killed Trunks for the lolz, and Kid Gohan vs 2nd Form Freeza after Krillin got horn-shanked). If Beerus smacked Chi-Chi in the face we might've seen a reaction from either Goku or Gohan on that level, but that didn't happen. Beerus was at 10% when SSj2 Vegeta caught him off-guard, tanked a punch, and started pushing him back. Beerus previously one-shotted Gohan, straight-up spanked Gotenks right out of his SSj1 form, and at 1% of his power he beat SSj3 Goku in two hits so not even any of those opponents earned the consideration Vegeta did. SSj2 Vegeta surpassed SSj3 Goku for that brief moment.
Individually, Mystic Gohan was stronger than SSj3 Gotenks, Base Super Buu or SSj3 Goku. We saw Super Buu absorb Gotenks, and then Gohan in-anime was "on-par" with him at best, and in the manga was just plain getting wrecked, so he's not stronger than both Buu and Gotenks literally combined. Goku came in, and in the anime Goku also fought "pretty evenly" with Super Buu 2, but in the manga Goku powered up to SSj3 only to get punched by Super Buu 2. When Gotenks defused inside Buu, Goku stated that "You're no threat, even Gohan can beat you on his own" (the dub line was "You don't plan on fighting me like that, do you?") so terms of power-up, Gohan caught up with the SSj3-tier opponents individually, but best believe if anyone stronger than that were to face him he'd get a curbstomping. So yeah, BOG SSj2 Vegeta would own Buu Saga Gohan, BOG SSj2 Vegeta vs Gohan after five years of slacking off is no contest.
If you got a problem with the fact that Beerus is a literal God of Destruction with an appropriately Godly power level and was motivated into using 10% of his power against a guy with a near-suicidal work ethic and the drive to get stronger, while you're stanning a character whose Mystic form was achieved by literally sitting around for hours doing nothing and having an old man do it for him (he didn't even effing meditate by himself, he just needed to sit still), you take that up with Toriyama. Otherwise you're just serving to prove my point. Gohan didn't train to maintain his power, unlocked or not, and he suffered for it. That's consistent with his character and consistent with just about any form of exercise in real life. He didn't do a lick of serious training for 7 years after Cell, so he had a hard time against Dabura when he should've killed him. He unlocked all his latent power during the Buu saga, but potential doesn't mean a damn thing if it's squandered, and he didn't train for 6 years so of course the other characters who are shown training their asses off are shown in a better light. Gohan doesn't get credit for the stuff he's not doing.
as a note: Gohan could totally go Super Saiyan Blue-- Vegeta doing it shows there's no restriction on who can receive God Ki, but does Gohan want to do it? and is that a good idea? are the more important questions to be asked. The answer for "does he want to ascend to a new form" has pretty consistently always been "No, unless he knows the world is in danger and Goku can't just bail everyone out" but that isn't a guarantee. That was his drive to go SSj1, and he still didn't want to actually fight Cell when the time came! He still told Cell "Yo, you have to get me really angry but I don't like being angry and I also don't like fighting so I don't think you should do that", which resulted in everyone else getting their ass beat, and Android 16 getting killed right in front of his face. Then right after he reached SSj2 he turned into a cocky brat and that got Goku killed. When he reached Mystic form he taunted Buu with "Fight you? No, I'm going to destroy you" and then not only didn't destroy Buu whatsoever but let Gotenks and Piccolo get absorbed and that cost him the fight. So no, it's very much not a good idea for him to go Super Saiyan Blue unless he developed as a character and not only doesn't let his power get to his head, but works to maintain it so he's not caught off guard. Both things are not happening anytime soon.
1. Extremely well, to the point of saying 'No contest', but in the interests of not looking like I pulled that answer out of my butt, I'm gonna get my nerd on and establish what we know about powers in general:
In terms of SSJ multipliers
SSj1 is 50x stronger than base form.
SSj2 is 2x stronger than SSj. That's 100x base form.
SSj3 is 4x stronger than SSj2. It's 400x base form.
SSj4 is 10x stronger than SSj3. That'd be 4000x base form.
Super Saiyan God takes a royal dump all over every single Super Saiyan form seen thus far including SSj4. BOG shows us why.
In terms of battles
SSj3 Goku got pwnt by Beerus at 1% of his power with a karate chop to the neck. SSj4 being only ten times SSj3, even if Goku turned SSj4 right there that means Beerus would whoop SSj4 Goku's ass with somewhere less than 10% of his power. Maybe with the same 1% he beat SSj3 with considering how easy that was at all.
Beerus tried the same chop on SSG Goku and it didn't work. An actual fight had to happen, so SSG Goku is way over 1% of Beerus's power, and surpassed SSj3 and 4.
When Beerus told Goku that he was not using his full power (an unconfirmed amount that was decidedly less than 70%), Goku admitted that he himself was holding back (only using 80%). Beerus got angry, and then Goku went all out, using 100% of the God power. That's true even when the time limit wore off, because he absorbed all the God ki and it became his new Base form (I'll call it 'Saiyan God' for simplicity's sake). He didn't even notice anything different until Beerus told him, soooooo...
Saiyan God Goku at 100% is the same as Beerus's "nearly 70%". That's more than a 30% gap between them ("nearly 70%" could be somewhere in the mid-to-high 60% range).
Super Saiyan Blue Goku could possibly beat 70% Beerus, but still not be able to take 100% Beerus. 85% maybe, if he's lucky. We don't know how big a multiplier SSBlue gives to a Saiyan God form. All we have is that SSBlue Goku would've lost to Golden Frieza if Frieza hadn't dropped in power, but Frieza still crapped ice bricks as soon as Beerus showed up.
Whis says that if Goku and Vegeta fought Beerus as a team and in their Super Saiyan Blue forms, they would be able to take on Beerus and possibly defeat him.
In terms of fusions
Potara fusion makes as much a joke out of fusion dance forms and team attacks, as SSG does to regular SS transformations. Gotenks needed to be SSj3 to even achieve Base Super Buu's dimension-shattering yell and then do actual damage against him, and it was still implied that Super Buu was stronger and just taking advantage of Gotenks's ego to get a win through absorption. Goku and Vegeta in their base forms couldn't even hope to double-team Buu (w/ Gohan absorbed), but they fused into Vegito from their Base form and Vegito's own base form wiped the floor with that Buu, and then he revealed he could reach ascended forms in that fused state. So Potara fusion applies some kind of astronomical power multiplier.
Now, to restate, Whis said Goku and Vegeta as a team would be able to defeat Beerus at 100%. Taking that into account, Potara fusion would be straight overkill no matter how it's sliced. Saiyan God Goku and Vegeta turning into Vegito first and then Vegito going SSBlue would make a coat out of Beerus's fur if he felt like it, but if they turned SSBlue first and then fused it would be no contest at all. I'd be more impressed if they could fight Whis, considering he did to a raging Beerus what Beerus did to SSj3 Goku.
2. True speed of light (or faster than light) capability has only ever been achieved by spaceships and pods, or Whis and his staff. No one that doesn't fit those terms has actually traveled at SOL or FTL, imo. If said characters learned Instant Transmission that wouldn't be necessary because it's exactly how it says, but that's teleportation and not pure speed.
3. That's blank, so...
In terms of SSJ multipliers
SSj1 is 50x stronger than base form.
SSj2 is 2x stronger than SSj. That's 100x base form.
SSj3 is 4x stronger than SSj2. It's 400x base form.
SSj4 is 10x stronger than SSj3. That'd be 4000x base form.
Super Saiyan God takes a royal dump all over every single Super Saiyan form seen thus far including SSj4. BOG shows us why.
In terms of battles
SSj3 Goku got pwnt by Beerus at 1% of his power with a karate chop to the neck. SSj4 being only ten times SSj3, even if Goku turned SSj4 right there that means Beerus would whoop SSj4 Goku's ass with somewhere less than 10% of his power. Maybe with the same 1% he beat SSj3 with considering how easy that was at all.
Beerus tried the same chop on SSG Goku and it didn't work. An actual fight had to happen, so SSG Goku is way over 1% of Beerus's power, and surpassed SSj3 and 4.
When Beerus told Goku that he was not using his full power (an unconfirmed amount that was decidedly less than 70%), Goku admitted that he himself was holding back (only using 80%). Beerus got angry, and then Goku went all out, using 100% of the God power. That's true even when the time limit wore off, because he absorbed all the God ki and it became his new Base form (I'll call it 'Saiyan God' for simplicity's sake). He didn't even notice anything different until Beerus told him, soooooo...
Saiyan God Goku at 100% is the same as Beerus's "nearly 70%". That's more than a 30% gap between them ("nearly 70%" could be somewhere in the mid-to-high 60% range).
Super Saiyan Blue Goku could possibly beat 70% Beerus, but still not be able to take 100% Beerus. 85% maybe, if he's lucky. We don't know how big a multiplier SSBlue gives to a Saiyan God form. All we have is that SSBlue Goku would've lost to Golden Frieza if Frieza hadn't dropped in power, but Frieza still crapped ice bricks as soon as Beerus showed up.
Whis says that if Goku and Vegeta fought Beerus as a team and in their Super Saiyan Blue forms, they would be able to take on Beerus and possibly defeat him.
In terms of fusions
Potara fusion makes as much a joke out of fusion dance forms and team attacks, as SSG does to regular SS transformations. Gotenks needed to be SSj3 to even achieve Base Super Buu's dimension-shattering yell and then do actual damage against him, and it was still implied that Super Buu was stronger and just taking advantage of Gotenks's ego to get a win through absorption. Goku and Vegeta in their base forms couldn't even hope to double-team Buu (w/ Gohan absorbed), but they fused into Vegito from their Base form and Vegito's own base form wiped the floor with that Buu, and then he revealed he could reach ascended forms in that fused state. So Potara fusion applies some kind of astronomical power multiplier.
Now, to restate, Whis said Goku and Vegeta as a team would be able to defeat Beerus at 100%. Taking that into account, Potara fusion would be straight overkill no matter how it's sliced. Saiyan God Goku and Vegeta turning into Vegito first and then Vegito going SSBlue would make a coat out of Beerus's fur if he felt like it, but if they turned SSBlue first and then fused it would be no contest at all. I'd be more impressed if they could fight Whis, considering he did to a raging Beerus what Beerus did to SSj3 Goku.
2. True speed of light (or faster than light) capability has only ever been achieved by spaceships and pods, or Whis and his staff. No one that doesn't fit those terms has actually traveled at SOL or FTL, imo. If said characters learned Instant Transmission that wouldn't be necessary because it's exactly how it says, but that's teleportation and not pure speed.
3. That's blank, so...
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Rage boost don't mean Vegeta's automatically stronger he's still weak with a temporary power up.
Except it doesn't make sense because old kai unlocked his power it shouldn't go down him reverting back to his weak self defeats the purpose of that ritual and also he shouldn't need to go super saiyan either that's another plot hole in ROF.
Hopefully DB:Super fixes this inconsistency.
BTW i like how Gohan is wearing a suit while fighting freeza soilders instead of that UGLY tracksuit.. its already an improvement! and i don't know about gohan going blue hair but i'm pretty sure he'll be fighting for beerus in the universe 6 arc.
also none of what you've mentioned is gohan's fault.. it was goku's fault that he died.. gohan was a child who was unaware of his own powers and had little control over it yet goku assumed that he could summon it at will and be perfectly in control... if i was goku i would've went back into the time chamber for another year and made sure gohan has full control over SSj2.
and piccolo&Gotenks being absorbed is totally Supreme kai's fault he knew about buu's absorption technique yet he didn't warn gohan about it.
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The rage boost doesn't mean Vegeta is stronger. His constantly training means he's stronger. The rage boost at least tells us he has more power than just that, whereas Gohan has gone down from no training and a civilian lifestyle. He's lost his fighting instinct.
He 'shouldn't need to' but he does need to, because he never worked to maintain it after the unlock. Check what I keep saying, at literally no point in the story did the good guys ever win by resting on their laurels and going "well I was strong in the past" to bail them out of a future fight. Freeza never trained a day in his life before meeting Goku and even he had to do it in RoF just to even get to Goku's level.
If no one needed to train ever just because of a previous unlock, every protag would be lining up for Old Kai's meditation technique. Hell, we wouldn't even need Old Kai's technique. Didn't Guru unlock Gohan's potential in the Namek arc? Why wasn't he stupidly powerful there? Why did he have an additional rage boost afterward? How many times does one character need to unlock their potential? Whatever answer you come up with, you'll have to contend with the canon because right there it proves that just unlocking isn't enough, and that it isn't the be-all or end-all of power ups. And you have no canon proof that the Ultimate/Mystic state is permanent or that Gohan's power would never ever go down at all. The canon proves the opposite. You might think it's bullshit but that doesn't make it invalid.
Oh, he's fighting for Beerus? That means he'll actually train. That's nice.
Yeah, it is Gohan's fault. Gohan starting from age 4 was being trained vigorously to fight battles that he technically was too young to be involved in, and he was involving himself in dangerous situations, he should've been used to that stuff by now.
He was a child when he fought the Saiyans.
He was a child when he volunteered to go to Namek.
He was a child when he fought Garlic Jr. in the filler arc and defeated him.
He was a child when he chose to train with Goku and Piccolo in preparation for the Androids.
He was a child when he sensed Piccolo being hurt by Cell and wanted to go rescue him, to the point of disobeying his father's order to wait and train ("NO!!! I can't just sit here and do nothing, I'm going down there! Got it!? I'm done waiting!")
He was a child when he chose to train with his father in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to prepare for Cell.
He was a child when he tried pushing himself to go Super Saiyan and got Goku to stop going easy on him and fight at full power.
He was a child when he had the inner revelation that he needed to be strong for the sake of his friends ("I've gotta be strong! Everyone's counting on me, I can't let them down! Like against the Saiyans... or the Ginyu Force, or Frieza. Whenever my friends needed me most I was always too weak or too scared to help them. I've been letting them down my whole life!")
How did he all of a sudden not know that his strength was needed when he acknowledged that he was needed? He recognized that he was letting his friends and family down by being a weak coward, and then when he goes to fight Cell he... admits that he's not into fighting and doesn't want to access that reserve of strength that he was intentionally trying to summon when he was training. He was so into trying to become a Super Saiyan that he went SSj2 right after Goku told him to rest and relax, because they were training for 20 hours.
WTF is that Majin Buu excuse? Gohan went in there taunting Buu about wanting to destroy him, and then he let Goten and Trunks fuse into Gotenks again instead of killing Buu right then and there. That's his fault 100%. A fight's a fight, at no point should Buu have been given an opening for any moves. And then even when he knew Gotenks and Piccolo got absorbed, he let his guard down around Buu and got himself absorbed. He should've known better.
@VampireWicked
I. It could go either way. I'd like to get an accurate scope on Whis's powers before I decide, but my gut says the fact he could karate chop Beerus unconscious makes his power off the charts.
II. I would consider that raw speed. Speed and teleportation are two separate things. Their combat speed still involves them moving their bodies, and skilled enough fighters can perceive those movements if they were witness to it, like in Goku vs. Cell-- to humans it looked like they were teleporting but the other Z fighters could follow the movements with their eyes. Or like in the original Dragonball when Goku landed multiple punches on Krillin and the human spectators could only see one. Teleportation on the other hand, wouldn't be able to be traced. You wouldn't know where someone was going until after they got there. (In BOG, Goku was using Instant Transmission on Beerus couldn't follow his movements).
III. Potara fusions are supposed to be a lifetime thing, and in canon the only reason the two separated was because Buu absorbed them and they had to split. So I guess if Vegito had to fight for whatever re, Buu would need to absorb him afterward so Goku and Vegeta could get out separately.
Piccolo&Tien have been also constantly training their power levels haven't increased since the android saga but vegeta magically gets a power boost stronger than Ultimate Gohan? lol Vegeta being as strong as SSj3 is already debatable as his training methods are demonstrably inferior to that of Goku's even whis confirms that in the latest DBS episode.
No i mean to say as in it is basically useless to him.. even if gohan trains he wouldn't need to go SSJ even when he's weaker he doesn't need SSJ or else why didn't gohan go SSJ&SSj2 when he was fighting Gotenks buu? there's no other logical explanation other than that transformation is useless for him and he shouldn't start using it just cus he got weaker he should still be fighting in his base regardless.
Yeah i guess but its still B.S though! gohan is this one character in DBZ who becomes the strongest in the universe and then goes to being the weakest twice.. like i'll literally facepalm if Gohan once again became the strongest in the universe.
No he shouldn't! he's still a child how can you blame a child for stuff he has no control over? gohan had no control over SSJ2 whatsoever Goku's death is his own fault he's stupid to rely on his timid child to summon&control SSJ2 and then beat Cell.
Gohan is an unwise fighter he didn't expect cell to just self-destruct like that Goku should've known better to trust the entire earth's fate on a timid little boy and clearly the buu Saga is just awful writing Gotenks&Goahn getting absorbed and then getting killed is just totally contrived to bring goku into the picture..
This part jumps out at me in the wikia entry: "Cell notices Goku disappear in a flash second, wondering what could have happened, as there would have been no way for him to outrun the attack." That detail of the episode/chapter, as well as in the initial demonstration of Instant Transmission, highlights that speed and teleportation are two distinct things. When Goku first showed the technique off, Vegeta thought it was "just a speed trick" until Goku pulled out Master Roshi's glasses, and it was concluded that there was no way he could've gone to Master Roshi's and back again using just pure speed, so he must have teleported. So yeah, no character has reached light speed off of their own natural skill.
But as for whether Goku outran a Solar Flare, he most definitely did not. I mean, "outrun" implies that he outpaced it in a relevant manner, like there was a safe enough distance where it didn't have an effect on him. IIRC he was in a tournament against Tien where going out of bounds wasn't an option, so outrunning it was not a feasible feat nor the point of his maneuver. He made a lateral move to get Master Roshi's glasses, where Roshi was pretty close to the ring. Tien didn't even perceive that Goku went by to pick up Roshi's shades, so if anything, Goku moved fast enough to leave an afterimage and definitely faster than Tien could process a thought, but that's not FTL. Faster than a speeding bullet, yeah, but not light.
If Kid Goku was FTL all the way in Dragonball, not a lot of the series would've happened the way it did. Lots of characters are faster than Kid Goku by the time DBZ rolls around, but the Solar Flare was still relevant until the Cell Saga and still caught people off guard-- Androids 16 and 18, Krillin, Vegeta and Trunks all got caught, and their reaction speeds should at least be fast enough to put something over their eyes. Cell even used it in DBGT where that version of Kid Goku is as powerful in his base form as his adult self's SSj3 form was in DBZ.
While I'm here I'm gonna correct my earlier statement on light speed. True speed of light (or faster than light) capability has only ever been achieved by spaceships, pods, Whis and his staff, Beerus (since Whis didn't leave him in the dust), and through powerscaling: SSG and SSBlue Goku, SSBlue Vegeta, Golden Frieza, and potentially Vegito from the resulting fusion of these versions of Goku and Vegeta. If we're counting DBGT, SSj4 Goku's Kamehameha wave can move FTL since it reached the sun in less than a minute.
But as for whether Goku outran a Solar Flare, he most definitely did not. I mean, "outrun" implies that he outpaced it in a relevant manner, like there was a safe enough distance where it didn't have an effect on him. IIRC he was in a tournament against Tien where going out of bounds wasn't an option, so outrunning it was not a feasible feat nor the point of his maneuver. He made a lateral move to get Master Roshi's glasses, where Roshi was pretty close to the ring. Tien didn't even perceive that Goku went by to pick up Roshi's shades, so if anything, Goku moved fast enough to leave an afterimage and definitely faster than Tien could process a thought, but that's not FTL. Faster than a speeding bullet, yeah, but not light.
If Kid Goku was FTL all the way in Dragonball, not a lot of the series would've happened the way it did. Lots of characters are faster than Kid Goku by the time DBZ rolls around, but the Solar Flare was still relevant until the Cell Saga and still caught people off guard-- Androids 16 and 18, Krillin, Vegeta and Trunks all got caught, and their reaction speeds should at least be fast enough to put something over their eyes. Cell even used it in DBGT where that version of Kid Goku is as powerful in his base form as his adult self's SSj3 form was in DBZ.
While I'm here I'm gonna correct my earlier statement on light speed. True speed of light (or faster than light) capability has only ever been achieved by spaceships, pods, Whis and his staff, Beerus (since Whis didn't leave him in the dust), and through powerscaling: SSG and SSBlue Goku, SSBlue Vegeta, Golden Frieza, and potentially Vegito from the resulting fusion of these versions of Goku and Vegeta. If we're counting DBGT, SSj4 Goku's Kamehameha wave can move FTL since it reached the sun in less than a minute.
Power doesn't equal speed and didn't whis say that he's the fastest in the universe? there should be no equal to him.
Goku using instant transmission as SSj still caught Beerus off guard which shows that even beerus can't follow something FTL.
I feel like you'd get more out of our discussions if you actually.... you know.... read them.
IT is not FTL, IT is Instant. It's in the name. It's teleportation not raw speed. No character in DBZ ever went light speed on their own pure movements, not even Gotenks who did 5 world tours in under 29 minutes and took a nap. If he were at SOL he'd have done 7 tours in one second.
Whis being the fastest in the universe doesn't mean Beerus can't be slightly slower than him but still pretty fast in general-- all I said was that Whis didn't leave Beerus in the dust/they showed up to Earth in RoF at around the same time, and he didn't have to KO him or drag him to do it.
No one is saying Beerus can't survive a planetary explosion.
Power doesn't equal speed but Goku and Vegeta (when not in USSj forms which they know are disadvantageous) are shown to be lean fighters and optimized their bodies so that their power doesn't slow them down. Vegito was similarly lean, was much more powerful than Buu and was also faster to show for it. If they're gonna be able to fight Beerus then their combat/reaction speeds have to be at least as fast as his, same with Vegito unless he inexplicably bulked up for no reason, and that's not part of his fusion or any of his ascended forms.
Okay but what about whis? doesn't he zip around the universe with his own power in minutes? isn't that at least as fast as the speed of light?
For ex:If we travelled at the speed of light it would take approximately 4-5 hours for us travel to Pluto(depending on
its orbit of course) so its not far-fetched to say that Whis is lightspeed or even FTL.
While i am very certain that Vegito SSJ blue hair will be stronger than Whis but i'm not sure if he'll be stronger than him as well.
Yes, Whis can zip around the universe. But no other character that we actually saw in Z before Battle of Gods can do what he can. None of the Z fighters and none of their enemies before BOG came out could do that. I've said that. I've mentioned 'Whis is SOL or FTL' at least 3 times by now. Depending on which of those two terms he is, anyone that comes close to him in speed (while not being faster than him) can also be capable of SOL or FTL travel, but the limit of his speed and gap between the other fast characters is indeterminable as of right now.
Minor Edit: From DBSuper and BOG, we can at least get that Whis is so much FTL to the point that anyone labeled "slower" than him could still travel at FTL speeds or SOL.
We know Whis can get from Beerus's planet to King Kai's in 26 minutes, and from Beerus's planet to Earth in 30 minutes, at full speed. Then basic math covers the rest (he can get from King Kai's to Earth in 3-4 minutes).
Whis and Beerus live inside a nebula, which could range from a minimum of 2 light years wide to a couple hundred light years wide. Whis moved across that nebula on the way to Earth or to King Kai's, in under a second or two.
When Beerus gave Whis 3 minutes to retrieve dinosaur meat for lunch at another planet way past the nebula they live in, at 1 minute into the task (2 minutes left), he reached the planet and talked to Beerus telepathically. After another minute and 20 seconds (40 seconds left), Beerus himself appeared on the planet, saying he got too impatient and it "felt like 225 years", where Whis corrects him and mentions it was only 2 minutes and 20 seconds since he left. Whis was confident he could get back to Beerus's home planet in under 40 seconds, where it previously took him a minute to cross that same distance. Beerus made it in less than a minute and 20 seconds. So Beerus himself is dozens of times faster than light given the fact they live in a literal nebula, and Whis is 20-40 seconds faster at the very least, whatever that means, relatively speaking.
Now can we have an actual discussion on things, or are you just gonna pretend I don't say stuff I'm obviously saying in order to make yourself feel like you're right about whatever the nitpick is?
Minor Edit: From DBSuper and BOG, we can at least get that Whis is so much FTL to the point that anyone labeled "slower" than him could still travel at FTL speeds or SOL.
We know Whis can get from Beerus's planet to King Kai's in 26 minutes, and from Beerus's planet to Earth in 30 minutes, at full speed. Then basic math covers the rest (he can get from King Kai's to Earth in 3-4 minutes).
Whis and Beerus live inside a nebula, which could range from a minimum of 2 light years wide to a couple hundred light years wide. Whis moved across that nebula on the way to Earth or to King Kai's, in under a second or two.
When Beerus gave Whis 3 minutes to retrieve dinosaur meat for lunch at another planet way past the nebula they live in, at 1 minute into the task (2 minutes left), he reached the planet and talked to Beerus telepathically. After another minute and 20 seconds (40 seconds left), Beerus himself appeared on the planet, saying he got too impatient and it "felt like 225 years", where Whis corrects him and mentions it was only 2 minutes and 20 seconds since he left. Whis was confident he could get back to Beerus's home planet in under 40 seconds, where it previously took him a minute to cross that same distance. Beerus made it in less than a minute and 20 seconds. So Beerus himself is dozens of times faster than light given the fact they live in a literal nebula, and Whis is 20-40 seconds faster at the very least, whatever that means, relatively speaking.
Now can we have an actual discussion on things, or are you just gonna pretend I don't say stuff I'm obviously saying in order to make yourself feel like you're right about whatever the nitpick is?
Its not a nitpick its just what i had to say about the topic basically i already know all about Gohan's character i'm just confused why he goes SSJ in the movie but didn't go SSJ while fighting Super buu or Beerus i know he's weaker now but it doesn't make sense how SSJ is now suddenly useful to him.