One thing about the OG DMC games was that you had to press 3 buttons just to dodge. I really loved DmC's one button dodge system and I would really hope they keep it for their future projects. Anyone agree?
who in here wants DmC dodging to stay?
- Thread starter rocketvergil
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I liked the one button dodge thing. DmC's probably the first time in the entire series I actually used dodging instead of just running/jumping around like a maniac. My only issue with the dodging in DmC is that it took up two buttons for two different types of dodging. I always forgot about the other type because...well...I just never had any reason to use it. It would have been nice to do it the way they did the weapons: holding down the button that makes you use angel stuff gives you angel dodge, holding down the button for demon stuff gives you the demon dodge and that would keep dodging to one button and free up that other button for something else...like locking on. 
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
No DMCs dodge was far better, it required skill and IMO just felt better for me, DmCs dodge was streamlined and was a waste of buttons for potential moves.
I'd tell Bayonetta to fix that too, but Bayo 2 did a good enough job with making it agree with the lock on button.
That's really the difference with DMC and DmCs dodge is the lock on, it only took us 3 buttons in DMC because we had to lock on to our targets and dodge, but in DmC there was no lock on so DMCs standard dodge system was removed entirely from DmC, all DmC had was basically the standard Trickster dodge mapped to 2 dedicated buttons.
I'd tell Bayonetta to fix that too, but Bayo 2 did a good enough job with making it agree with the lock on button.
That's really the difference with DMC and DmCs dodge is the lock on, it only took us 3 buttons in DMC because we had to lock on to our targets and dodge, but in DmC there was no lock on so DMCs standard dodge system was removed entirely from DmC, all DmC had was basically the standard Trickster dodge mapped to 2 dedicated buttons.
I have mo problem with dodge, except that you don't need 2 dodge buttons for it.
i would keep them seperate for there own games , but i would remove demon dodge and keep angel dodge/dash but add an extra.movement or two.
DMC's dodge is fine as it is
DMC's dodge is fine as it is
I'd say DmC's dodge should stay in DmC and DMC's dodge should stay in DMC.
I don't have any problem with either of the two until they start inter mingling.
I don't have any problem with either of the two until they start inter mingling.
The original dodge mechanic was part of the things Devil May Cry needed to evolve. There's nothing impressive or smart by taking a mechanic some games can simply put down to one input to demand multiple ones. It's just unnecessary. The same with how moves were locked away from you unless you lock on. DmC went around some of these things bringing some of these techniques to a natural and much needed evolution. The result is a concept that gets mixed results, but was at least had well intentions.
As I will now explain.
DmC puts many different variations on things all throughout combat. The dodging mechanics in it are no different. There are actually THREE variations of the dodge. Demon, Angel, and Nephilim.
-Demon Dodge: This evades enemy attacks while delivering a boost in strength on the next attack.
-Angel Dodge: A quick dodge that allows you to travel further distances via teleport
-Nephilim Dodge: This is activated during the Demon Dodge and you have to time it properly. When Dante goes in slo mo, you can notice his hands glow red which indicates the time to activate the Angel Dodge, this will allow you to have not only an attack boost, but the ability to travel that distance. A combination of both.
I see the intention in allowing the different perks, but there just isn't enough to really garner it as a necessity since most people just use it to dodge attacks.
If it were up to me, I'd have added more reason to perform these dodges. It needs a better argument to justify its existence. Like, for example, with the demon dodge, not only would I have allowed an attack boost, but the ability to use the Arbiter's Tremor technique which has the fault line separate in to three different directions instead of one straight down the middle. Or maybe the Eryx has this move that successfully performing Demon Dodge allows. A barrage of punches that Dante delivers to nearby demons. Like a 3-hit boxing combo. The repeated success of demon dodge would not only increase attack power, but add more hits to the combo.
Maybe a max combo of about 7 hits that is capped off with an instakill knockout punch with the demonic voice yelling KO! And maybe a bell ringing. All about style baby, all about style.
Do the same with Angel Dodge. Give it more perks an abilities. I could go in to explaining what I have in mind for an Angel dodge perk, but I won't unless you want me to.
The Nephillim Dodge if successfully performed could allow you to mix and match both with maybe a slight boost in speed. The chance to speed up the Demon Dodge perks if you so wish.
So, yea. It's something that has potential even if it's assigned to two buttons, but there is room for improvement and it doesn't have to be so arbitrary to perform.
As I will now explain.
DmC puts many different variations on things all throughout combat. The dodging mechanics in it are no different. There are actually THREE variations of the dodge. Demon, Angel, and Nephilim.
-Demon Dodge: This evades enemy attacks while delivering a boost in strength on the next attack.
-Angel Dodge: A quick dodge that allows you to travel further distances via teleport
-Nephilim Dodge: This is activated during the Demon Dodge and you have to time it properly. When Dante goes in slo mo, you can notice his hands glow red which indicates the time to activate the Angel Dodge, this will allow you to have not only an attack boost, but the ability to travel that distance. A combination of both.
I see the intention in allowing the different perks, but there just isn't enough to really garner it as a necessity since most people just use it to dodge attacks.
If it were up to me, I'd have added more reason to perform these dodges. It needs a better argument to justify its existence. Like, for example, with the demon dodge, not only would I have allowed an attack boost, but the ability to use the Arbiter's Tremor technique which has the fault line separate in to three different directions instead of one straight down the middle. Or maybe the Eryx has this move that successfully performing Demon Dodge allows. A barrage of punches that Dante delivers to nearby demons. Like a 3-hit boxing combo. The repeated success of demon dodge would not only increase attack power, but add more hits to the combo.
Maybe a max combo of about 7 hits that is capped off with an instakill knockout punch with the demonic voice yelling KO! And maybe a bell ringing. All about style baby, all about style.
Do the same with Angel Dodge. Give it more perks an abilities. I could go in to explaining what I have in mind for an Angel dodge perk, but I won't unless you want me to.
The Nephillim Dodge if successfully performed could allow you to mix and match both with maybe a slight boost in speed. The chance to speed up the Demon Dodge perks if you so wish.
So, yea. It's something that has potential even if it's assigned to two buttons, but there is room for improvement and it doesn't have to be so arbitrary to perform.
Given the fact they're making several changes for gameplay, I assume it's crystal clear they'll get rid of a button.
We'll have to press a button, in order to perform the lock-on.
Angel evade is useless. If I used it twice for almost 100 hours of gameplay, it's a lot, lol.
Demon dodge is overpowered, because it gives Dante a power up to get stronger for some seconds. That's also why you go from Dirty to Sensational by hitting a boss 3 times ( Poison ). Hopefully they'll fix it in DE.
That being said, I would get rid of the angel evade. Maybe they'll allow us to use both evades by pressing each button plus the evade button. So, they could keep both of them.
We'll have to press a button, in order to perform the lock-on.
Angel evade is useless. If I used it twice for almost 100 hours of gameplay, it's a lot, lol.
Demon dodge is overpowered, because it gives Dante a power up to get stronger for some seconds. That's also why you go from Dirty to Sensational by hitting a boss 3 times ( Poison ). Hopefully they'll fix it in DE.
That being said, I would get rid of the angel evade. Maybe they'll allow us to use both evades by pressing each button plus the evade button. So, they could keep both of them.
I like a dedicated dodge button. There was one in DMC2 and in DMC3 Trickster was also a form of dedicated dodge, not just speed of movement.
Before Bayonetta I used the jump to avoid attacks and I was ok with it but I learned from that game that a dedicated dodge is a must for a difficult game. It should be a basic. Such a fundamental function shouldn't be made a skill. The three command input isn't bad, it's just something that requires practice, but it doesn't have to be that way. Simplicity is adds efficiency and to refuse something because it's featured somewhere we didn't like is... juvenile. You're certainly not going to convince me that something this fundamental is better if it requires more actions to pull off.
At the same time you're not going to tell me that said function requires 2 dedicated buttons. It'd be like making two attack buttons but they do the same thing. That in itself is certainly not a bad thing but if it sacrifices another basic function to achieve it then it is too much and unnecessary.
Before Bayonetta I used the jump to avoid attacks and I was ok with it but I learned from that game that a dedicated dodge is a must for a difficult game. It should be a basic. Such a fundamental function shouldn't be made a skill. The three command input isn't bad, it's just something that requires practice, but it doesn't have to be that way. Simplicity is adds efficiency and to refuse something because it's featured somewhere we didn't like is... juvenile. You're certainly not going to convince me that something this fundamental is better if it requires more actions to pull off.
At the same time you're not going to tell me that said function requires 2 dedicated buttons. It'd be like making two attack buttons but they do the same thing. That in itself is certainly not a bad thing but if it sacrifices another basic function to achieve it then it is too much and unnecessary.
I think it got removed from the DE.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
only REAL DMC fans use the REAL DMC dodge.
But seriously though, it was one of the better mechanics of DmC compared to the three button press dodge which, to me, was as unnecessary as having two dodge buttons.
But seriously though, it was one of the better mechanics of DmC compared to the three button press dodge which, to me, was as unnecessary as having two dodge buttons.
Input complications should never be a part of the difficulty.
If it's possible to make dedicated buttons for an action, totally do that, especially for moves that players are more likely to use often.
If a move is purposely done to only activate via double-tapping or two-three simultaneous button presses to make "pulling it off more challenging", then whoever decides that should rethink about becoming a game developer.
From my experience playing many games, dodging is best when it has its own dedicated button.
Some games try to be gimmicky with dodging, where its activation is either via double-tapping or that "press X the same time the enemy attacks to initiate" BS.
In Dead Space 3 it was bad enough that to dodge, you have to double-tap the "Run" button.
It's made worse by the fact that the "Run" button is mapped on a trigger and double-tapping that is a pain in the ass.
Dodging is almost useless in the game, due to how double-tapping a trigger button makes it harder to time with the enemy's attacks.
Sometimes, even if dodge has its own dedicated button, it can still be ruined by horrid limitation choices.
In Deception IV, the "Roll" maneuver requires a 4 second recharge time.
After rolling once, you have to wait 4 seconds to roll again.
If you rolled once to dodge one attack and and another enemy attacks you, you're completely screwed.
Seriously, stop the goddamn gimmicks.
Keep dodging on a single button, with no unnecessary limitations.
If it's possible to make dedicated buttons for an action, totally do that, especially for moves that players are more likely to use often.
If a move is purposely done to only activate via double-tapping or two-three simultaneous button presses to make "pulling it off more challenging", then whoever decides that should rethink about becoming a game developer.
From my experience playing many games, dodging is best when it has its own dedicated button.
Some games try to be gimmicky with dodging, where its activation is either via double-tapping or that "press X the same time the enemy attacks to initiate" BS.
In Dead Space 3 it was bad enough that to dodge, you have to double-tap the "Run" button.
It's made worse by the fact that the "Run" button is mapped on a trigger and double-tapping that is a pain in the ass.
Dodging is almost useless in the game, due to how double-tapping a trigger button makes it harder to time with the enemy's attacks.
Sometimes, even if dodge has its own dedicated button, it can still be ruined by horrid limitation choices.
In Deception IV, the "Roll" maneuver requires a 4 second recharge time.
After rolling once, you have to wait 4 seconds to roll again.
If you rolled once to dodge one attack and and another enemy attacks you, you're completely screwed.
Seriously, stop the goddamn gimmicks.
Keep dodging on a single button, with no unnecessary limitations.
meesah gonna repost here
(in case anyone didn't see it the first time around)
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Leave out the regular dodge entirely.
Just have the angel dodge only... and when the timing is perfect, it can turn itself into a demon dodge.
There's another function you can squeeze in there... if you just press dodge without a directional input, it can become a guard.
Perfect Guard ---> Guard + Forward = Angel Dodge ---> Perfect Guard + Forward = Demon Dodge [Demon Release when dodging in a direction of an enemy.]
So, in other words, Demon Dodge = Demon Release.
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I know most people will think that this is a bad idea, it's just that I think we could always use the extra room for more "style-specific" functions... like Twosome Time for instance.
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Extra Post:
For the "Free-lock" (soft-lock) guys:
Demon/Angel stance on the left while they keep lock-on and evade on the right side of the shoulder buttons. You can evade with your middle finger or just toggle lock-on off and on so that your index finger remains free for either R1 or R2.
(in case anyone didn't see it the first time around)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Leave out the regular dodge entirely.
Just have the angel dodge only... and when the timing is perfect, it can turn itself into a demon dodge.
There's another function you can squeeze in there... if you just press dodge without a directional input, it can become a guard.
Perfect Guard ---> Guard + Forward = Angel Dodge ---> Perfect Guard + Forward = Demon Dodge [Demon Release when dodging in a direction of an enemy.]
So, in other words, Demon Dodge = Demon Release.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I know most people will think that this is a bad idea, it's just that I think we could always use the extra room for more "style-specific" functions... like Twosome Time for instance.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Extra Post:
For the "Free-lock" (soft-lock) guys:
Demon/Angel stance on the left while they keep lock-on and evade on the right side of the shoulder buttons. You can evade with your middle finger or just toggle lock-on off and on so that your index finger remains free for either R1 or R2.
That sounds...kinda complex. I think, in a way, I can see what you're getting at, but isn't a parry like a guard? But with more precise timing and more offensive action behind it? Sorry if I'm sounding dumb here. >_<
My mind turned this into "you can evade the demons by flipping them off". :blush: 'Scuse me a sec. :banghead:
Demon Release sound sexual, like Royal Release. though i'm finding this funny.
Ok... Here's what I meant: Dodge by itself is plain guard. Time it right and you get a Perfect Guard/Demon Guard/Demon Perfect Parry.
Guard + Any direction = Angel Evade
Guard + In the direction of any nearby enemy = Counterstrike/Perfect Release/Demon Dodge
[No @Elijah Guerrero -- not that kind of release. Get your mind out of the gutter.]
In other words, you an do a regular evade, but you can also perform a Royal Counterstrike/Demon Counterstrike/Perfect Release if you evade in the direction of an enemy.
It's almost exactly like a regular Royal Release, only faster.
Wait no... !
[Ok Elijah, get back in the gutter.]
i'm just having fun Vergilius, if you watch YoVideogames playthrough of the Devil May Cry games, Max and Matt poke fun at the names for several attacks, things, enemies and more. Wonder if they would do Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition and DmC Defninitive Edition?
I don't care what form the dodge takes control-wise, as long as it doesn't have that tacked-on delay that DMC3 had.
I doubt it about DmC DE... I mean, story-wise it's the same game, with some gameplay adjustments. Maybe they'll do a showcase video at max.
As for DMC4 SE... it depends. If it will have a story for Vergil, I think it's probable they'll do a Let's Play series on it.
Doge is clearly the correct response here.