DmC: Devil May Cry vs. Devil May Cry... (keep it civil, or else).

[Shin Muramasa]

I think it's because it was such a different game than what people were used to here in the West. It was a hack 'n' slash, but it was exceedingly methodical and not quite as fast paced as Capcom's other action series (DMC ), so I think a lot of people couldn't get past the idea of mashing buttons and actually taking their time against the monsters >_<

Monster Hunter is a hack n' slash, though not well-known until recently, but with a methodical combat system that usually requires planning and preparation with each hunt - makes sense, you're not going to go hunting with a bow and arrow against an elephant or use a shotgun on a poor, little wabbit. Cancels which are well-known in Capcom games are part of Monster Hunter. Soul Sacrifice is similar to Monster Hunter, though a little faster I think. Dragon's Dogma is much faster than Monster Hunter, but you still can't just mash buttons and hope to win since some monsters, especially the Ur-Dragon will pound your face into the ground if you screw around.

That said, in Devil May Cry games, you can get away with button-mashing until you reach higher difficulties. Same thing with Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance and I think Bayonetta. Hell, some of those games have "button-mashing" modes, the automatic easy mode.

I think the problem comes from the God of War games. I'm not saying they're a bad series; they're enjoyable. The combat does allow you to get away with button-mashing much more than other games. Then again, Kratos tends to fight crowds of enemies while Dante, Raiden, and Bayonetta tend to deal with multiple but not crowds of enemies. Also, first-world societies, tend to be fast and instant-gratification dependent. Not a lot of people are used to or want to deal with spending time on things. Why read a book when you can watch a movie? Why cook and spend quality time when you can go to a (fast-food) restaurant?

And this is why I think Dark Souls and Demon's Souls being considered difficult games isn't really true. I think it's that players have a tendency to just rush in and be able to take down anything that seems animate. Playing cautiously, which is what the games want you to do, makes the game challenging but not frustratingly hard, however, cheap things like the existence of Flamelurker still makes the games annoying. Freaking demon who's high on sugar.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Yeah, the Souls games aren't really hard, they're just completely unforgiving. Those games are totally hostile, and they couldn't be any more hostile unless they had fake bonfires that would burn you alive if you tried to use them. Oh God, I shouldn't give them ideas...

God of War is just...I dunno. Nearly all of your attacks are these broad sweeping motions, and it's just...the gameplay itself lends to a lot of ease. I think that's sort of something, the mechanics of games these days are very accommodating to the player, instead of trying to challenge them. It's like...Dark Souls is on one end, and God of War is on the other. The DMC/Bayonetta-type are somewhere in the middle, with Monster Hunter closer to Dark Soul's end. Giving the player the tools to either survive against, fight back against, or breeze through the obstacles you face in the game.

And it has nothing to do with "a difficulty mode," it's how the player is able to handle the obstacles. God of War 2's hardest difficulty is certainly different from say, DMC3's hardest difficulty, because the player is given different tools, which themselves lend to a different level of ease.

 

[Lionheart]

The big problem is that an unwillingness to even try the game for yourself makes you lose a large amount of credibility, because a majority of the things you say are simply parroted thoughts from others, instead of your own thoughts. You can't possibly know exactly how a game controls just by watching it and being told, no matter how in-depth. It's the same reason why games can look easy to handle when watching gameplay, but can feel completely different when you yourself play the game.

Once again - you also did not ever give any succinct criticism about the game, only parroting blanket statements about the game not being good, or not selling well. You've never actually given any criticism that could actually be considered listening to.

He just implicitly said he played the game. Or were you talking about people who didn't try the game in general?

I know you replied to somebody else, but I've given fair criticism, not only in this thread, but in many others. Nobody who perpetrates the 'DMC vs DmC' nonsense ever acknowledges or likes comments like those, just like the two of you have ignored some of the comments here to suit your views. I don't mean this as a personal attack, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect people to take you seriously if you keep ignoring many things and posting Nicolas Cage memes everywhere. But whatever, I'm not going to get sucked into this. I don't agree with Godhand myself, but that doesn't mean I can start posting memes to indirectly demean him. Don't want to acknowledge this comment, then don't respond. Edit: hmmm... one of my comments appears to have disappeared. It's just a blank field 0_o

 

[Angel]

Just popping in...


...nothing to see here? Awesomesauce

Ima gonna head on out then, in that case. Thanks to Lionheart and Unknown for keeping things civil - appreciate the effort, guys

Carry on, guys

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

My vote is for all, for I have felt pro and con in everything...

 

[Alittleacorn]

NT is just starting out. You almost sound like you expect a good company to have an immediate success instead of learning from each project which is what NT is doing. If I could I'd buy their previous games, just to see how far they've come.

I'd recommend Enslaved: Odyssey to the West, with some popcorn. I really enjoyed that film-I mean game, and given I've played a large chunk of Heavenly Sword as well, I can confirm they've improved a lot since those titles.^_^

 

[AlastorSword]

Original for both answers.

I'll be the first to admit... I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE THE NEW DANTE!!! TO THE POINT I'D LIKE TO SEE HIM NAILED TO ONE OF THOSE VICTORIAN TORTURE CHAIRS, EYE GOUGED SO HE'D NEVER SEE WHAT WOULD BE COMING NEXT, BURNT WITH THE BUTT OF THE CIGARETTE HE WAS SMOKING IN THE TRAILERS AND THEN I'D PAY A BUNCH OF DYSLEXIC SCHOOL CHILDREN TO TAKE TURNS POPPING SHOTS AT HIM WITH A RUSTY MUSKET IN AN ATTEMPT TO HIT THE EXACT CIRCLE FROM WHICH HE WAS BURNT! JUST FOR KICKS I'LL REPLACE SOME OF THE AMMO WITH SOME OF KATS SQUIRREL SPUNK!!!

*Ahem* Other than that DmC is a fine game and I have no problem with it coexisting with the original series as it's own little spin off. If we could somehow get a DMC5 and DmC2, I wouldn't be mad at all.

 

[SugarMoon]

Original for both answers.

I'll be the first to admit... I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE THE NEW DANTE!!! TO THE POINT I'D LIKE TO SEE HIM NAILED TO ONE OF THOSE VICTORIAN TORTURE CHAIRS, EYE GOUGED SO HE'D NEVER SEE WHAT WOULD BE COMING NEXT, BURNT WITH THE BUTT OF THE CIGARETTE HE WAS SMOKING IN THE TRAILERS AND THEN I'D PAY A BUNCH OF DYSLEXIC SCHOOL CHILDREN TO TAKE TURNS POPPING SHOTS AT HIM WITH A RUSTY MUSKET IN AN ATTEMPT TO HIT THE EXACT CIRCLE FROM WHICH HE WAS BURNT! JUST FOR KICKS I'LL REPLACE SOME OF THE AMMO WITH SOME OF KATS SQUIRREL SPUNK!!!

*Ahem* Other than that DmC is a fine game and I have no problem with it coexisting with the original series as it's own little spin off. If we could somehow get a DMC5 and DmC2, I wouldn't be mad at all.

I pretty much agree. Just in a more...subtle way lol :lol:

 

[Loopy]

I pretty much agree. Just in a more...subtle way lol :lol:

Something more gentle, like tying him to a chair and throwing water balloons at him, while dangling pizza in front of him that he will never get to eat.

 

[SugarMoon]

Something more gentle, like tying him to a chair and throwing water balloons at him, while dangling pizza in front of him that he will never get to eat.

Yeah something like that. Hehehehehehe :devil:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

He just implicitly said he played the game. Or were you talking about people who didn't try the game in general?

I know you replied to somebody else, but I've given fair criticism, not only in this thread, but in many others. Nobody who perpetrates the 'DMC vs DmC' nonsense ever acknowledges or likes comments like those, just like the two of you have ignored some of the comments here to suit your views. I don't mean this as a personal attack, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect people to take you seriously if you keep ignoring many things and posting Nicolas Cage memes everywhere. But whatever, I'm not going to get sucked into this. I don't agree with Godhand myself, but that doesn't mean I can start posting memes to indirectly demean him. Don't want to acknowledge this comment, then don't respond. Edit: hmmm... one of my comments appears to have disappeared. It's just a blank field 0_o

I was saying if he wasn't being sarcastic. Let's remember that sarcasm is pretty hard to discern in text sometimes :/ He was being an @sshole though, and couldn't just give a straight f#cking answer. He had to dabble it with a bunch of bullsh!t.

And he hasn't given fair criticism from what I can remember (the thread's gone on a damn long time though, so maybe I missed it amidst all the sales talk), all I saw was blanket statements ("it's just not good" etc) that he doesn't elaborate on, and then a bunch of junk about sales. Don't you try to tell me that I don't listen to legitimate criticism, because I most certainly do, the problem is sometimes it isn't legitimate at all and just a bunch of misinformed opinions. You'll notice I'm pretty consistent with the whole "misinformation" thing, that's what I don't like. You can have whatever opinion you want, but don't go shoving it around if it's based on a bunch of bullsh!t, it's not fair to you, me, everyone else, and whatever it is you have an opinion on.

My disagreements about difficulty are different, however, because I'm simply telling you why DmC is the way it is. You can be upset that DmC isn't balls hard like the classics, but it's not necessarily something to completely disavow the game for. It's not insanely easy, even with the one dominant strategy people like to whinge about.

I think you might wanna start writing out your responses outside of the quotes - looks like the site might be jiggered for posts that are just quotes?

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

I'd recommend Enslaved: Odyssey to the West, with some popcorn. I really enjoyed that film-I mean game, and given I've played a large chunk of Heavenly Sword as well, I can confirm they've improved a lot since those titles.^_^

That is not a fact. In science there are many variables that decides why something is like it is.

I think your looking at Dmc reboot and overlooking couple things:
1) Devil may cry gameplay existed for roughly 10 years before NT was put on the job to produce it.
2) capcom supervision and aid with the gameplay
Those two factors together make the hypothesis of NT having improved ALOT...inconclusive.

Personally i don't think they improved alot. They were taught to do something, and they managed to do it without innovating the gameplay and making a gameplay that is argueable below dmc 4 and dmc3.

It makes you ask the question:
How the reboot have been if capcom gave NT only a crash course on dmc gameplay and then did not meet them regularly to see how development was going.

capcom is an fork hole in my opinion, but i think every dmc reboot supporter whos glad it was made should thank capcom.
Without their supervision...reboot would been a big failure from a gameplay perspective.

 

[TerrorA]

really long post

She. She's being a jerk. Her profile says female.

Sorry, just thought I'd help.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So...being taught how to be better at something doesn't count as improvement? So I guess our children never improve in school then, huh?

C'mon :/ You can't say "That is not fact" and then start tossing around your opinions, starting with "personally I don't think."

 

[TWOxACROSS]

She. She's being a jerk. Her profile says female.

Sorry, just thought I'd help.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

So...being taught how to be better at something doesn't count as improvement? So I guess our children never improve in school then, huh?

C'mon :/ You can't say "That is not fact" and then start tossing around your opinions, starting with "personally I don't think."

You do not understand where i am coming from

A kid being taught to solve a equation with a method that a mathematican made, is impressive.
But a kid making his own method to solve the same equation...is much more impressive.

And i was not tossing my opinion, i argumented for it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Ooookaaaay, so...then how can you say NT didn't improve. By definition, NT greatly improved, being able to make an action game with a lot of depth, especially more depth than Heavenly Sword and Enslaved.

And I'm not talking about you arguing your opinion, I'm talking about how you legitimately just said "This is not fact" and then backed up your claim with not facts, but your opinions. Facts need to be put up against facts in order to discount them. You can totally have your opinions, but don't say something isn't a fact and then throw your opinions at it. It won't matter how strong your convictions are.

NT's improvement is not an opinion, it's a fact that you can plainly see because they made improvements from all their previous games. Hell, DmC uses Heavenly Sword's stance mechanic in a much better way, dare I say...in an improvement.

 

[Lionheart]

snip

I don't think my opinions are bullshit, but I can try and try to explain why that is factually, and you will end up simply ignoring that comment. That comment of mine I was referring to was ignored, too. Maybe you didn't mean to. Honestly, I don't care about it anymore, because I'm not going to go back like fifteen pages just to see what it was. Your comment I'm quoting here does not contain any argued points, it only contains stuff like ''don't you try and tell me'' etc etc, which comes across as aggressive. I will not respond to aggression; I just stated what I think, and if you disagree, no need to react so angrily.

I didn't say he gave fair criticism. What I said was that I agreed with you he did not, but that I felt that didn't give you the right to respond so offensively to him with Nicolas Cage memes and whatnot. That sort of thing can be very hurtful, however funny it may be.

I don't believe I was complaining about DmC's difficulty. I just asked you the question why it is that DmC's higher difficulties are not as hard as those of DMC. You answered that question, and we were done with it, so you don't have to bring it up again. No offense intended

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I was talking more about a "collective you," not you specifically :x I could say "someone" instead, really. "Someone can have whatever opinion they want, but they shouldn't go shoving it around if it's based on a bunch of bullsh!t, it's not fair to them, others, and whatever it is they have an opinion on.

I need to clarify things more :/ My funky speech patterns seem to trip people up sometimes.

And we already addressed the difficulty thinger

 

[Lionheart]

I was talking more about a "collective you," not you specifically :x I could say "someone" instead, really. "Someone can have whatever opinion they want, but they shouldn't go shoving it around if it's based on a bunch of bullsh!t, it's not fair to them, others, and whatever it is they have an opinion on.

I need to clarify things more :/ My funky speech patterns seem to trip people up sometimes.

And we already addressed the difficulty thinger

Oh, sorry about that. This is getting me a bit riled up, so let's drop it, alright? I'm not going to look up a comment I made like thirteen pages ago just to make a point.