Why you shouldn't use "True" as an argument

[mrrandomlulz]

Having been on this forum for over a year, I think it is high time I shared my experience with all of you, I've been in more flame wars than a homosexual who joined Westboro Baptist Church .(Too much Hyperbole)
I know, I know, I just talked about this in another thread. But I still would like to dive into the countless flame wars, bans, and times mods had to give out lessons. Don't believe me about how RIDICULOUS this gets. This also explains why I was so harsh on that one thread.
Now despite that thread being the reason I realized the reason I created this thread. It is not the reason it self and I would like people to think of this as it's own seperate thread. The reason I created this thread, is because I don't want to see the mods have to ban any potential great members in the future over the stupid "True" argument. Now what is the "True argument, members of this forum younger than I, may ask.
It's when people say stuff like "Hideki Kamiya was the TRUE creator of DMC" or "Original Dante is the TRUE Dante" in real life, these are just words, on the internet, they are a Molotov Cocktail, covered in Nitroglycerin, hitting a forest covered in kerosene.

We used to have a mod named Tony_Redgrave, he was an average user on this forum. This guy was awesome, he gave second chances, knew not to abuse hi

s power, yet still knew WHEN and HOW to discipline users.
So what happened to this mighty forum god mod? Well long story short, we drove him off, countless bickering like children and him having to give the EXACT SAME LESSON over and over again, it's no mystery what happened to him, he got SICK OF IT. The mods are STILL looking for a replacement, personally, I nominate Vergil'sBitch or Meg, maybe ToCool74.

Still don't believe me? Well, let's look further into the forum life of Tony_Redgrave.

Tony treated every member with something every person should be treated with.
RESPECT!
This is how he got his mod title way before I joined from what I know. However, during the period that I was a new member. Almost every day a flame war would pop up, with one thing in mind.This is how TRUE leads to flame wars kids.
"True fans"
The minute you see someone bring this up in a thread, stay calm and do the following.
1. Try changing the subject, even if it means temporarily derailing the thread.
And if that doesn't work immediately go to steps 2 and 3.
2. Report the bloody troll
3. Abandon thread before they pour gasoline on the Triangle shirt waist factory.(If you don't get that reference, you should have payed more attention to 8th grade history class) Anyhow back to Tony's dilemma.
Tony_Redgrave got so ****ed off with each of these, after the umpteenth time, you started to read them in a harsher and harsher tone each time. There were quite literally DAILY flame wars.

Tony_Redgrave always gave out the same lesson. Again, and again and again.

Ok guys, I'm re-opening the thread. Just a few things:

First of all, the word that started all this, Fan: A fan, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person with a liking and enthusiasm for something, such as a band or a sports team. Fans of a particular thing or person constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may show their enthusiasm by being a member of a fan-club, holding fan conversations, creating fanzines writing fan-mail or by promoting the object of their interest and attention. (info taken by wikipedia)

So, where does that lead us? We all here are members of a Devil May Cry Forum - in other words a fan club. In this forum we have fan conversations, we post our fan-fictions and fan-art. The mere existance of this forum, helps to promote the whole franchise of the world of Devil May Cry and everything associated with it. That includes games, books, novels, movies, figurines, anime, manga and everything related with that world. ANYTHING. Therefore, what does that make us according to wikipedia? Fans. Yes, we are all fans according to the (somewhat) official definition of the word fan.

However, is it that simple? No. Fans may like the same thing but for completely different reasons. Since it is a large franchise concisting of a large number of stuff, it is rather impossible for everyone to like all of them. Every book/novel/etc. gives off a different feeling because it was (excluding all the obvious differences like how different a book is to a game, and what does it give to each of us etc.), written/directed/etc. by different people and therefore it has some differences. As each new thing, can't completely produce the exact same feelings, that the original produced, but only a part of them with a mix of new stuff, it is natural, that each new part of the franchise whether it's a new game or a new book, will satisfy some fans, upset some other fans and also produce some new fans. Are we ok up until now? I hope yes

Conclusion: Each part of the franchise has its own number of fans. Some of those people like every different, tiny, little part of the franchise, others only like one. But, all of them remain Devil May Cry fans in their own way.

DmC, IS a part of the Devil May Cry franchise. It is almost completely different than the previous games, it has a new world, a new backstory and new characters. But it's called Devil May Cry as well. Whether it's a reboot/a story in a parallel universe/a story in the same universe with some other Dante/or whatever, it is still a part of the franchise. If one is a Fan of the old games is not a fan of the new game(s), does that mean he is not a fan of the Devil May Cry franchise? No. Why? Because as I said before -> "As each new thing, can't completely produce the exact same feelings, that the original produced, but only a part of them with a mix of new stuff, it is natural, that each new part of the franchise whether it's a new game or a new book, will satisfy some fans, upset some other fans and also produce some new fans."
EXACTLY the same goes for any variation of the word Fan.
If someone only likes Devil May Cry because he/she read one of the novels, does that make her/him less of a Fan? No.
If someone likes the new DmC does that mean he cannot like/be a fan the other parts of the franchise? No.

We are people. We all have opinions. Each of us is different. Same for our opinions. And same for our decisions. Fan is something we decide for ourselves to be. Something that we proclaim therefore we are. No one else can decide what we are, no one else can label us - and even if she or he does, it does not matter. We are who we are, and we decide what we want to be. If I say I'm a fan of Batman, then I'm a fan of Batman. Does that mean I can't be a fan of Robin? Or of other versions of Batman? No. It only means what I said. I'm a Batman-fan, simple as that. If someone knows more about Batman than me does that make him more of a fan? No. Being a fan cannot be measured. We just are or aren't. And we are the ones to decide that. No one else.

I hope we cleared the Fan thing - omg being a fan is serious bussiness.. - so let's go elsewhere.

CoolDemon
You said:

Asomo do me a favor since your for DmC. Be quiet about what DMC because​

I know you and Asmo probably disagree about everything, but than does not give you ANY reason to decide what another member will or will not say. We are a forum open for discussion. Just as anyone reads your posts and discusses/agrees/disagrees with you, the same goes for every other member. If you do not like him. IGNORE HIM. Read how here: http://forums.devilmaycry.org/threads/alternative-to-ignore.9272/

After that, you said:

Well a true fan is a fan of original DMC and Dante. The opposite is someone who ditches original DMC and it's character.​

There is no TRUE FAN, BETTER FAN, LESSER FAN, etc. I explained this above. We are all fans. No more. No less. For example some people do not like Devil May Cry 2 and like every other DMC-stuff, even DmC. They are fans. Same as you. You don't like DmC. Your opinion, your deal. However you cannot decide who is true and who is not. Let each member decide for himself/herself, as they let you.

Then you said:

You like DMC.​

But you like DmC the most.​

​

So your a fan of DmC. That's how i see it.​

Ok, that's how YOU see it and I respect that. However that is your point of view. It is not the absolute meaning of a fan. I gave the meaning above.

And also, something completely different. In all the threads, your posts create some sort of misunderstandings that lead the thread COMPLETELY ASTRAY. It is not the first that has happened. This thread is titled Parallel Universe, and to be completely honest with you sir, I had to scroll up and read it, because it could very well be titled "The Meaning of the True DMC-Fan". The last time, you did (not on purpose - and right now I'm not accusing you or anything, so do not take this the bad way) the same, and made a thread's meaning change from the original one, to something like "Why I do not like the new DmC. Reasons and Explanation. by CoolDemon". Please, try and be on topic.

Asmodaius
You said:

I am NOT ignoring anything! Where the f*ck did you get that from?!​

Sorry Tony, but all his crap is really starting to get to me...​

I understand your frustration, however the rules say:

Please refrain from excessive cursing and any attempt to evade the censored-words filter, these forums are aimed at audiences of all ages. Take a moment to review your message and decide if it would be suitable for younger visitors before posting.​

Therefore, please kindly try and control yourself. I understand that the whole thing started from nothing and you were getting angrier and more annoyed because of your disagreements with CoolDemon and the fact that he kept missing the point of what you said, but if you are about to post something like that, better not post it at all. It contributes nothing to the conversation, and could very well have bad results. If you really can't stand CoolDemon, then ignore him, in the same manner I proposed to him, to ignore you: http://forums.devilmaycry.org/threads/alternative-to-ignore.9272/

FatDemon
You said:

Oooooooooook guys, so from this parallel universe topic you've come tom argue about what a ''fan'' is like and what he's supposed to be ? That's not cool.... no... not cool​

Sir, this is the best post in this page, with the most truth in it. I take my hat off to you.

It took a long of my time to write all of this, and frankly I do not care, because I felt I had to, but I hope that you guys will chill out and discuss like proper members. I know you are all awesome, and can be way better than this, so please do

Don't make me lock this permanently.

*thread unlocked*

We have discussed this again and again. There is no true fan. The term was first thought by a group of people who considered themselves and their opinions about that something they were fans of, superior, more well-informed and more "right".

However, opinions, I'll say again, are individualistic. Everyone has one. All of them are relevant. If someone does not accept the opinion of someone else then he/she is just close-minded. I understand disagreeing with it - it is natural because we all have our own opinions and can't always agree - but thinking that it's wrong and stuff like that only degrades the person who does that.

Anyway it is the 2nd time a thread like that has appeared. And I hope this 2nd time it will go better than the last.

You'd think he's pretty annoying for doing this, but he's not. Noone ever listened to the lesson. So it had to be REPEATED!. And if you look at the first example, you'd see he actually tried to unlock a thread. HE WAS THAT GREAT A GUY!


So in conclusion,
I personally don't want to see any more potential great members get banned, if not for yourselves, than for the mods and your fellow members who want to participate in intelligent discussion., at least be careful how you use the word "true".

E.g. : Saying "Hideki Kamiya is the true creator of Devil May Cry because he created the series to begin with", is okay.
Saying "Hideki Kamiya is the true creator of Devil may Cry because he created the BEST one." could easily lead to a flame war.

 

[Cabbage Detective]

i salute you for this Mrrandomlulz i truly do

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Now you see this is 'true' logic. And allow me to use the word true in that manner because that was a truly great post. I must say though I am slightly confused. Has TonyRedgrave been driven away from the forums? I didn't know this to be the case, because I have a limited time at best to come on here and everything. Although I try to keep up with most things, I haven't seen anything about his absence. If there is a thread please point me to it and I'll go have a read.

I mean you're completely right Mr.RLulz. There is no such thing as a true fan of something.

Yeah I mean, "I've watched every movie. I've brought all the merchandise. I've completed every game. This makes me a true fan". No, it really doesn't. It simply makes you a fan. It doesn't make you superior just because you have done all of those things. At best it just gives the impression that you simply did most of those things so you could rub it in other people's faces to say "I am the ultimate fan of this". And really, that's just being a bit extreme. When it comes down to it we are all fans of the exact same thing here, because DmC is based on DMC. The only truth is being mature enough to accept this fact and to try to get along with our fellow members here.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Now you see this is 'true' logic. And allow me to use the word true in that manner because that was a truly great post. I must say though I am slightly confused. Has TonyRedgrave been driven away from the forums? I didn't know this to be the case, because I have a limited time at best to come on here and everything. Although I try to keep up with most things, I haven't seen anything about his absence. If there is a thread please point me to it and I'll go have a read.

I mean you're completely right Mr.RLulz. There is no such thing as a true fan of something.

Yeah I mean, "I've watched every movie. I've brought all the merchandise. I've completed every game. This makes me a true fan". No, it really doesn't. It simply makes you a fan. It doesn't make you superior just because you have done all of those things. At best it just gives the impression that you simply did most of those things so you could rub it in other people's faces to say "I am the ultimate fan of this". And really, that's just being a bit extreme. When it comes down to it we are all fans of the exact same thing here, because DmC is based on DMC. The only truth is being mature enough to accept this fact and to try to get along with our fellow members here.

No, but my Devilmaycry.org headcanon says that is the reason why Tony_Redgrave left.

 

[Loopy]

No, but my Devilmaycry.org headcanon says that is the reason why Tony_Redgrave left.

So he didn't leave for the reason you stated? You just think this is why he left?:/ Then until we have an offical reason, who knows why.

 

[Cabbage Detective]

So he didn't leave for the reason you stated? You just think this is why he left?:/ Then until we have an offical reason, who knows why.

Can't really blame him if he left for that reason

 

[Loopy]

Can't really blame him if he left for that reason

Mm- true. But who knows. People do have lives outside of the internet. Maybe real life was too busy? We can only speculate.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

No, but my Devilmaycry.org headcanon says that is the reason why Tony_Redgrave left.

Ah I see. So you're simply speculating for the time being.

I think he also gets quite busy outside of the forum if I remember rightly. And there was a period of time in which he was away when he had important things to work on. I mean even Staff members have their own lives outside of here.

If you think about it really, if the Staff weren't around for a while in general we would only have ourselves to moderate this place. This is more reason as to why we should abide by the rules and to not create problems with one another.

 

[Loopy]

Ah I see. So you're simply speculating for the time being.

I think he also gets quite busy outside of the forum if I remember rightly. And there was a period of time in which he was away when he had important things to work on. I mean even Staff members have their own lives outside of here.

If you think about it really, if the Staff weren't around for a while in general we would only have ourselves to moderate this place. This is more reason as to why we should abide by the rules and to not create problems with one another.

Exactly. People have their own lives. So there could be any reason for not being here much.

As for being mods for ourselves. It's just a case of common sense. Not being irritating to one another or doing things that are known to be annoying or upsetting.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Exactly. People have their own lives. So there could be any reason for not being here much.

As for being mods for ourselves. It's just a case of common sense. Not being irritating to one another or doing things that are known to be annoying or upsetting.

Well yeah this is exactly the point really. There could be many reasons.

I didn't actually mean mods ourselves. I just meant being able to moderate our behaviour to an appropriate fashion should the Staff not be around. For instance as you said, not trying to cause problems. Although sometimes some people do miss the point. And sometimes people interpret things differently and then problems begin to arise. Though we can't always have peace, we can hope for reasoning to suffice at best.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

There is no such thing as true fans.

But there is difference between Devil May Cry fans.

Similar to difference between radical feminists and moderate ones. Radical feminists are crazy bitches (for real).

But Devil May Cry fans, i believe there are three groups
Dante fans
DMC gameplay fan
Both of them

a DMC gameplay fan may not care for Dante
And a Dante fan may not care for the gameplay

So if a DMC gameplay fan sees Dante be rebooted they will not care. Therefor they don't have same bond with Dante as character, so it's easy for them to say that rebooting of Dante isn't big deal, because they aren't fans of Dante.


Looking past these two groups and dwelling into a different thing:
I believe at end of day we have to make a choice

DmC or DMC

If you had to make a choice and both DmC and DMC had potential for a sequal, which would you want?
DmC or DMC?

Pick DmC: Your a DmC fan first and foremost
Pick DMC: Your a DMC fan first and foremost


It's very clear DMC 5 has pretty good prequal potential (Sparda/Vergil). For sequal (Nero) potential.
So the serie isn't dead.
Anyone stating the serie is dead is probably not interested in seeing it be made anymore because they want DmC to be made.



As a fan of characters, i rather see them never again, than see them in a game because the company is using them to milk money.
That's kind Dante fan i am.

 

[VineBigBoss]

I think IncarnatedDemon words makes really sense, but i would want to correct something: people can still be fans of Dante and Donte, i don't think they need to be fan of one or another. But what occurs here sometimes are people claiming that are fans of the DMC series while using this just as a shield to bash out the games and most of times making no sense at all (being contradictory, for example). I've already catch people doing this and exposed their contradictions, although i see no reason why that kind of thing would be offensive, peoples calls doom to their heads and i just expose how they did it.

I don't think that this "true fan" thing exists. But as IncarnetedDemon said, it's clear that some people only likes DmC or DMC, and i don't think we need to tolerate people who just goes to threads were other people discuss the games that this specific member don't like and start flame wars there for no reason. I always try to be productive even while posting in the DmC forum, even if i don't like the game that much.

I think there's a big difference between unreasonable and simplistic bashing than reasonable critizing of a game, i think that even this second fashion of criticizing must be avoided depending on the thread purpose. If people are willing to discuss, for example, DmC mechanics, it's not an excuse for some DMC fan come and say that "DmC mechanics are ****, added nothing to franchise, and bla bla bla" and vice-versa. I think people would get at least verbally warned via PM or something like this about their actions if it's clear they've come just to "troll" on a thread of another member that is trying to really bring up a discussion to the community, if it can lead to destroy some productive thread or something like this a warning would be well-placed.

 

[Dark Drakan]

His reasons for not being here arent as cut & dry as you stated but he had many reasons, same as our other Mods too like Keaton & Angelo Credo. However people are right we do have lives outside the forums & the last thing we need after tough days at work/college/Uni is babysitting members here & trying to stop people arguing every day. We dont want to have to ban members & keep warning people but if we have to, to cull the persistent trouble makers & those being reported most days we will. We tried words & verbal warnings as deterrents but when those dont work members leave us with little option.

 

[Loopy]

I think there's a big difference between unreasonable and simplistic bashing than reasonable critizing of a game, i think that even this second fashion of criticizing must be avoided depending on the thread purpose. If people are willing to discuss, for example, DmC mechanics, it's not an excuse for some DMC fan come and say that "DmC mechanics are ****, added nothing to franchise, and bla bla bla" and vice-versa. I think people would get at least verbally warned via PM or something like this about their actions if it's clear they've come just to "troll" on a thread of another member that is trying to really bring up a discussion to the community, if it can lead to destroy some productive thread or something like this a warning would be well-placed.

Very true. I don't mind if it is a valid point said in a polite way and explained well. That's fine with me. But saying simply 'this is crap' with no other reason given is just pointless and contributes nothing to the discussion.

Same applies for when a polite debate is going on, or a talk, and someone jumps in with a silly meme or GIF and claims there will be a flamewar when there clearly isn't. Doing that exact thing is what starts the flamewar and contributes nothing to the discussion. If that's all a member can do is shout 'flamewar' accompanied by pointless GIF or memes, then what's the point in being on this forum?
It's not funny and it gets boring pretty fast.

I don't think that this "true fan" thing exists. But as IncarnetedDemon said, it's clear that some people only likes DmC or DMC, and i don't think we need to tolerate people who just goes to threads were other people discuss the games that this specific member don't like and start flame wars there for no reason. I always try to be productive even while posting in the DmC forum, even if i don't like the game that much.

Agreeing. There is no 'true' fan. It's just words thrown around to make one person feel superior to another.
And while it's fine to like one game over another, I don't like it when, like you say, members go to the thread of the game they don't like just to upset fans of the game by being rude or saying things that they know will annoy others.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

^ i swear when someone says "This thread is going to start a war", it's as if the person wants it to happen.

Why else would you want to paint a picture that people are arguing...

Perhaps it's not a argument but two highly fired up people.

You can't say just because someone is very fired up that they are arguing.

 

[Goldsickle]

I've seen the same "true fan" crap amongst the Resident Evil fanbase.

For example, claiming that only those who played and liked the older RE games are "true fans", while the ones who liked the latter ones are not.

This is used as some sort of imaginary pedestal, where they demand more respect from the fans of the newer games and declare the newer fans or anything they say as irrelevant.

It only makes it more satisfying to see Resident Evil never going back to the stupid tank controls and prerendered backgrounds.

 

[Cabbage Detective]

I've seen the same "true fan" crap amongst the Resident Evil fanbase.

For example, claiming that only those who played and liked the older RE games are "true fans", while the ones who liked the latter ones are not.
.

they still do that? lol

 

[Loopy]

^ i swear when someone says "This thread is going to start a war", it's as if the person wants it to happen.

Why else would you want to paint a picture that people are arguing...

Perhaps it's not a argument but two highly fired up people.

You can't say just because someone is very fired up that they are arguing.

That's what I mean. It give the image that the poster saying 'there's going to be a flamewar' really wants a flamewar to happen.
Either that, or they are really bad at judging when people are not flaming...:/

 

[Cabbage Detective]

That's what I mean. It give the image that the poster saying 'there's going to be a flamewar' really wants a flamewar to happen.
Either that, or they are really bad at judging when people are not flaming...:/

i can tell that a flamewar is gonna happen :troll:

 

[Loopy]

i can tell that a flamewar is gonna happen :troll:

Hur hur, I see what ya did there:troll::lol: