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Why do people hate DmC Dante so much?

Why do you like DmC Dante?


  • Total voters
    46

Razyel

Soul Reaver
Well now, someone with a brain? Of course you are a Legacy of Kain fan...welcome sir! I was just juxtaposing Dante's inherent humanity with what DmC Dante's writing team assumed would be a cooler backstory. Arguably humanity can be emulated in many ways by beings that can't be said to be human, but I was just making fun of the the decision to make Dante NOT human because I think was a poor choice. For me, Dante's connection to humanity was one of his biggest motivators and most relateable and interesting character traits. Angel powers just seemed to me like something Ninja Theory thought sounded cooler haha

We'll see whether the decision to include angelic side to the story is good or really bad, right now we haven't seen any other angels in DmC. Who knows it might lead into a good plot twist or two, anyways it might be too early to say anythng about that ...
 

DevilsAdvocate1234

Well-known Member
Well *Ahem* to you too :D Didn't your mom ever tell you the difference between human emotions and being human? If you are trying to point out that new Dante shouldn't have any human emotions because he isn't biologically human makes no sense.

For example one guy named Sparda comes in mind :p Now tell me how a full blood demon can have "human emotions" ?

Good job you managed to find great quotes especially the ones from DMC1 are good.

But that wasn't my point, out of 4 games the best writing is found in the first, second doesn't have any, third does a decent job considering it was made in 2005 still not better than DMC1 and then we have DMC4 which made no sense.

Now the point wasn't to say that there isn't anything good about the writing of previous games, but there is a huge difference between decent and good/great story.

Now if someone says that the story of DMC4 is better than for example MGS1, I won't take him seriously. So now if somebody claims that previous DMCs story is better than new ones, there are two things that won't match:
Story development in gaming industry has taken leaps and bounds in a few years so it's not fair to compare the older games by today's standards - while the setting is good in all of those games, only two of those games had good stories ( for 2001 & 2005 ) one was horrible ( DMC2 ) one was only decent ( for 2008 ).

Second: we have seen only few story trailers of DmC and yet some people are comparing finished games with unfinished product. Yet the comparisons are almost fair, reason? 'Cause DmCs story is something a lot bigger, so now we have already enough content for one game although we haven't actually seen anything yet...

Man, this post became way too long...

Woops, somehow missed the rest off your comment. Yeah, besides that last bit about comparing finished games with unfinished games I completely agree with your comment. As for that last bit, I think Ninja Theory wants people to compare and talk about their game, I mean they've been working on it for three/four years, and they've put out so much media for it, all of which I've seen. I feel like I've gotten a grasp after all these years of what they're going for. But I digress. Whatever you meant, those quotes were a direct response to : "Just saying that you have no right to criticise the new Dante because of "bad writing" when the Old Dante was the sum of his one-liners..." haha
 

Razyel

Soul Reaver
Woops, somehow missed the rest off your comment. Yeah, besides that last bit about comparing finished games with unfinished games I completely agree with your comment. As for that last bit, I think Ninja Theory wants people to compare and talk about their game, I mean they've been working on it for three/four years, and they've put out so much media for it, all of which I've seen. I feel like I've gotten a grasp after all these years of what they're going for. But I digress. Whatever you meant, those quotes were a direct response to : "Just saying that you have no right to criticise the new Dante because of "bad writing" when the Old Dante was the sum of his one-liners..." haha
It's half a joke, ofc Dante was more than that but he was badly written in DMC2 & 4 so I meant it as an average... :)

And about comparing DMC and DmC: when I said almost fair I meant that while there is a lot of content out there: we have seen an actual story footage worth of about 20 minutes, but comparing that to a series of games which we already know all there is to know seems unfair...
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
It's half a joke, ofc Dante was more than that but he was badly written in DMC2 & 4 so I meant it as an average... :)

And about comparing DMC and DmC: when I said almost fair I meant that while there is a lot of content out there: we have seen an actual story footage worth of about 20 minutes, but comparing that to a series of games which we already know all there is to know seems unfair...

It's not comparing but so much as "From what I've seen to what I've known all my life."

True it's a bit not fair but this Dante is suppose to show how much of a character he is. In the Captivate trailer and E3 Trailer, he's an assh*le, a douchebag, and just a straight up jerk. His lines are sometimes crappy and not smartly written and he does things not to look cool, but because no one can stop him from doing it. He's free to do what he wants without worry of death or being caught. If you had his power I'm sure you'd be having the time of your life.However in the Gamescom 2012 trailer, Dante seems to grow more as a person as he starts to realize how big the picture really is. He was just killing demons on his own time back then, but now he's part of this organization that knows how to kill them permanently. He also realizes that maybe humans are important by the way he wants to save Kat and him feeling sympathy for the humans being tortured under the demon's rule. His lines start to be more serious, he sounds more in tune to the bigger picture going on, and he fights with a bit more seriousness, like a professional devil hunter.

Devil'sadvocate1234; said that NT is disrespecting DMC, when in actuallity Capcom has been doing that for years. Look at DMC2, just because he looked like Dante goesn't mean he acted like Dante. He was dead serious and was not to social. Then DMC4 came and was a complete disprespect of Dante's character by making him just cocky, and just not taking anything seriously like he was in DMC1. If anything NT has taken elements from DMC3 Dante by making their Dante a cocky jerk like DMC3 Dante, but he starts to get serious about what he does by the end of the game like DMC3 Dante did. People only seem to look at the outer shell of this character and this game, but there's obviously more to it then just him looking and sounding different.
 

mrrandomlulz

Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
If you want to play a game just to play as a BAMF, take my advice, buy Arkham City's Nightwing DLC,. just through his gameplay he oozes levels of badassery that blows your f*cking mind.
 

Tiran

The great pretender.
Ok, for DmC Dante he's part Angel and part Demon right?
Angels are good and powerful, while Demons are evil and powerful.

Dante from Devil May Cry, on the other hand, is part Demon and part Human.
Demons are evil and powerful, while Humans are good and vulnerable.

Which one do you think is more opposite?
"Heaven and hell supposed two distinct species- the good and the bad, but the greatest part of man float betwixt vice and virtue."

Human's are neither inherently good or bad. We choose our path here on this neutral ground that is earth. We represent no extremes in nature. That is why Earth sits between the opposing realms of darkness and light.

Demons are evil and powerful.
Angels are good and powerful.

Mankind is neither good, evil or powerful- but may find our greater power in the acceptance of great good or evil. It's our choice. I believe this may be the theme of this game as Dante finds his humanity between two extremes. He is both yin and yang and finding the balance within himself will allow him to transcend either.

I hope this story element isn't wasted in "f#ck you's"
 

mrrandomlulz

Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
You know? If Ninja Theory are so good at story, why have they never tried making a visual novel style game. I would play it.

*Patiently waits for Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 visual novel that allows you to play as Deadpool*
 

Alittleacorn

Smile it confuses people
Ha, don't worry we're all friends here. I thought it was interesting how you brought up the Spider-man reboot, because it's a great comparative example to DmC as a successful reboot. You compared it's change of pace next to the Sam Raimi movies as similar to DmC's difference from Devil May Cry, but actually, Raimi's movie is much closer to DmC. The Peter Parker in his movies is a lot different than the Peter Parker from the comic books, and once Raimi started taking liberties with the source material, hardcore fans similarly started crying foul (Not to say I'm not grateful for those movies, anyone who's read James Cameron's interpretation of the web-slinger on Cracked.com know what I mean). The point is, that since this movie has come out, people have been calling Andrew Garfield, and the direction of the new Spider-Man superior compared to the older series. Why? Because of it's adherence to the original ideas that made the comics great, as well as it's respect of its predecessors in the Raimi Trilogy. It's these traits, or lack thereof, that make me conversely dislike DmC.

You asked "Why critic the game for changing Dante to look more like the original Dante (in facial appearance and personality) when that's what's most of us were angry about him lacking in the first place?" Well, let's first ignore the irony of trying to make your new character more like the one he's replacing and acknowledge that what the game designers have chosen to carry on from the previous game is not a reflection of the adherence I was talking about in the previous paragraph. Just because their character has white hair in his Devil Trigger mode, or has two guns named Ebony and Ivory doesn't mean he is Dante. We don't like Dante just because he trash-talks and doesn't give a sh*t. Although the original Dante made jokes and appeared to be ambivalent to the problems of others, he was shown to express regret, empathy, and conviction when faced with problems like Trish's betrayal, or Lady's unraveling. He professes to the latter, "At first I didn't give a damn, but because of you, I know what's important now." We see that the new personality they've given their character is arrogant and mean, a far cry from both their original reboot trailer as well as the original Devil May Cry Dante, but one they profess is ironically more "Dante-like" to appease the fans. Generalizations like that insult the intelligence of the fans and seems to suggest a rather ignorant viewpoint on what they think makes Dante cool. They've focused more on aesthetics and missed the mark with what made us fall in love with Dante in the first place such as his connection to humanity, which apparently didn't seem very Dante-like to them, so now he's part Angel. So, what we have now is this new Dante, stuck in a Limbo weirdly befitting his game. A man with a different look and a different story, but an attitude which aspires to be more like the Dante we know and love but missing the mark completely. This is the character clash Hyper was talking about. The two don't fit and it feels forced.

The least Ninja Theory can do is tip their collective hat to the original series, but unlike the respect Spider-man obviously has for its predecessors, Tameem and his crew have shown constant disrespect towards the original series in such a manner that it seems like they are, as you put it, trying to "stomp" it out of existence while they ironically need it to establish their new franchise (remember they're making a movie now). A lot of influence from the previous games can be seen, albeit, contrastingly paired with Ninja Theory's new politically charged modem and it just makes them look foolish and unimaginative which is a shame because those moving areas are definitely original and cool. It's like Paul W.S. Anderson's Resident Evil movies. Every original idea he has (c'mon, that quarter-shotgun scene in Afterlife was batsh*t cool) is marred by the fact that everything else is filled with derivative components he's ripped from the Resident Evil games and placed out-of-context in his movies under the banner of "fan service."

Look, I've gone on for a bit, so let me just finish with this thought: Ninja Theory originally wanted to make a game that was the polar opposite of Devil May Cry. I'm sure it could've worked, but their timing could not have been worse. Fans were only partially sated by DMC4 and were drooling for DMC 5 when the reboot was announced. It would have been smarter to conclude the Devil May Cry's storyline before creating a new one, but by doing so, Capcom ensured that the new project would garner harsh criticism. So, instead of continuing to develop a game that could have been entirely separate from Devil May Cry, Ninja Theory was and has been forced to validate itself ever since, and what's the best way of doing that? By bashing the competition, in this case, Devil May Cry.
What could have remained two separate worlds has now been adulterated by Capcom's hurt pride and need for green. Now, they've bet everything on DmC. They've got the game (which hasn't even come out yet), an upcoming movie, and a new character which they and Ninja Theory now feel they need to use to erase our beloved Devil May Cry like it never happened. It's really the fans' fault though. This could have all been avoided. We just wanted Devil May Cry 5 too much.


These things Ninja Theory said, did they happen round about when the 2010 Debut trailer was released? If so, do you think it’s possible they might’ve gone overboard because:
1. They haven’t done that many games, thus don’t have that much experience when dealing with interviews like Capcom or Square Enix do?
2. They assumed people wanted this remake, same for Capcom?
3. For that they got ahead of themselves?

It’s just…I don’t know. They’re a small game company, you get a huge company offer you the chance to reboot a popular game wouldn’t you be excited? I simply think Ninja Theory got ahead of themselves and didn’t think before they spoke.
But honestly, I don’t care what they said back then; it’s nearly 2 years ago. I’m not going to judge them over that when I know they’re making something good. Granted they definitely did NOT handle those interviews well, but I think most inexperience is to blame. They’ve only made 4 games in total. Think of how many Capcom has made in comparison and how long they’ve been in the business compared to them.

As for Spiderman thing, er I meant in terms of a reboot /adaptation version thing, not by what directors and what not said *but damn you got me on that one, you’re good o.o even though that wasn’t what I was referring to, but still!)

On Dante with what you mentioned on his personality, I don’t know. Like I said I can’t entirely judge him until I see the game. But this is supposed to be Dante in his youth. Yeah he was pretty young in DMC3, but I think in terms of the reboot it’s supposed to be even before he’s reached that point in his life where he’s levelled out. Remember, it was mentioned DmC is about Dante journey and how he changes and grows as a character as the game goes on.

So, think of DmC is more like an origin, exploring more into his past before we see him more set in his ways and the Dante we recognize more. People don’t always stay the same their entire lives. And Dante seems to have had a rough start (a rough up bringing or not, can affect you remember)

It’s possible by the end of the game Dante could be more like Dante we’re more familiar with, humanised; but him. Say what Dante might be in our reality, our world, he wouldn’t always be confident, because we all have rough days and our good ones. If you try and think of his character in that light, it’s not really that bad when you step and look at the whole picture.

Maybe that original DMC could’ve popped out at least one more sequel (even though I can’t think of what they could’ve done but they still could’ve done something) but yeah, it’s just the way things are. It’s like Enslaved, I really wanted to see sequel for that, but I don’t think it will ever happen now ;_;

o.o wow, I think I’m really enjoying this debate with guys. =D high five!
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
These things Ninja Theory said, did they happen round about when the 2010 Debut trailer was released? If so, do you think it’s possible they might’ve gone overboard because:
1. They haven’t done that many games, thus don’t have that much experience when dealing with interviews like Capcom or Square Enix do?
2. They assumed people wanted this remake, same for Capcom?
3. For that they got ahead of themselves?

It’s just…I don’t know. They’re a small game company, you get a huge company offer you the chance to reboot a popular game wouldn’t you be excited? I simply think Ninja Theory got ahead of themselves and didn’t think before they spoke.
But honestly, I don’t care what they said back then; it’s nearly 2 years ago. I’m not going to judge them over that when I know they’re making something good. Granted they definitely did NOT handle those interviews well, but I think most inexperience is to blame. They’ve only made 4 games in total. Think of how many Capcom has made in comparison and how long they’ve been in the business compared to them.

As for Spiderman thing, er I meant in terms of a reboot /adaptation version thing, not by what directors and what not said *but damn you got me on that one, you’re good o.o even though that wasn’t what I was referring to, but still!)

On Dante with what you mentioned on his personality, I don’t know. Like I said I can’t entirely judge him until I see the game. But this is supposed to be Dante in his youth. Yeah he was pretty young in DMC3, but I think in terms of the reboot it’s supposed to be even before he’s reached that point in his life where he’s levelled out. Remember, it was mentioned DmC is about Dante journey and how he changes and grows as a character as the game goes on.

So, think of DmC is more like an origin, exploring more into his past before we see him more set in his ways and the Dante we recognize more. People don’t always stay the same their entire lives. And Dante seems to have had a rough start (a rough up bringing or not, can affect you remember)

It’s possible by the end of the game Dante could be more like Dante we’re more familiar with, humanised; but him. Say what Dante might be in our reality, our world, he wouldn’t always be confident, because we all have rough days and our good ones. If you try and think of his character in that light, it’s not really that bad when you step and look at the whole picture.

Maybe that original DMC could’ve popped out at least one more sequel (even though I can’t think of what they could’ve done but they still could’ve done something) but yeah, it’s just the way things are. It’s like Enslaved, I really wanted to see sequel for that, but I don’t think it will ever happen now ;_;

o.o wow, I think I’m really enjoying this debate with guys. =D high five!

I enjoy these discussions too. It's so good to see people of different opinions be able to have stable conversations without it becoming a "MY FACTS ARE RIGHT" crap.

yay! :D
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
*innocent whistling*
images
 

EllDawn

Well-known Member
Loyalty isn't a very complicated trait. I do understand that with this soft spot for Kat, Ninja Theory is trying to show that their Dante can feel for other people, but honestly, I don't feel like they've made his decision very meaningful or important or even hard to make. The city itself, the government, and Hell itself apparently ALL want to kill Dante, and all Dante does in the game is defy what is presented to him...so...what? Am I supposed to be surprised when he tells them (over and over) to go f*ck themselves just because it's on someone else's behalf? The game wants to present their Dante with stupidly blatant, maddening antagonists? Ok cool. But when he challenges them, don't expect me to faun over what a multi-faceted, conflicted character they've created.

Then why do people find it so hard to be loyal? And loyalty means everything to a person that has never had anyone show any sort of kindness.

In a way, what you said about Kat, can also be said about Trish and Lady. They were there to show another side of the original Dante. To prove that he does care. So, NT is using the same trick and showing us just a little of what this Dante is like.
 

Razyel

Soul Reaver
It's not comparing but so much as "From what I've seen to what I've known all my life."

True it's a bit not fair but this Dante is suppose to show how much of a character he is. In the Captivate trailer and E3 Trailer, he's an assh*le, a douchebag, and just a straight up jerk. His lines are sometimes crappy and not smartly written and he does things not to look cool, but because no one can stop him from doing it. He's free to do what he wants without worry of death or being caught. If you had his power I'm sure you'd be having the time of your life.However in the Gamescom 2012 trailer, Dante seems to grow more as a person as he starts to realize how big the picture really is. He was just killing demons on his own time back then, but now he's part of this organization that knows how to kill them permanently. He also realizes that maybe humans are important by the way he wants to save Kat and him feeling sympathy for the humans being tortured under the demon's rule. His lines start to be more serious, he sounds more in tune to the bigger picture going on, and he fights with a bit more seriousness, like a professional devil hunter.

Devil'sadvocate1234; said that NT is disrespecting DMC, when in actuallity Capcom has been doing that for years. Look at DMC2, just because he looked like Dante goesn't mean he acted like Dante. He was dead serious and was not to social. Then DMC4 came and was a complete disprespect of Dante's character by making him just cocky, and just not taking anything seriously like he was in DMC1. If anything NT has taken elements from DMC3 Dante by making their Dante a cocky jerk like DMC3 Dante, but he starts to get serious about what he does by the end of the game like DMC3 Dante did. People only seem to look at the outer shell of this character and this game, but there's obviously more to it then just him looking and sounding different.
Dude, do we have the same brains or something ? :D
 

Dante47

Well-known Member
Speaking of consistency... I really hope DmC has some. I don't want the transition in Dante's personality from Demon Killer to everyone's favorite Demon Hunter to be blunt and forced. It should be a long evolution, a steady, ever-changing journey. That's what I want.
 

mrrandomlulz

Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
Speaking of consistency... I really hope DmC has some. I don't want the transition in Dante's personality from Demon Killer to everyone's favorite Demon Hunter to be blunt and forced. It should be a long evolution, a steady, ever-changing journey. That's what I want.
I really want to know how they give him the white hair in this version,

What, does he just bleach it to hide his identity or something?

I'm gonna lol at whatever twist it is. That gives him long white hair,
 
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