Why do people hate DmC Dante so much?

[Dante47]

I won't vote. I have no idea if he will be a good character, and saying so would be stupid. He could be ****.
But then again, "hating" him is equally as stupid.

 

[Zilla]

New > Old.

 

[Dante47]

All I can say is, NT is very good at writing character pieces. Maybe, over the course of the game, he'll obtain many of personality traits that Old Dante had. Lets wait and see.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

New > Old.

Fun character who can say a decent insult without cursing his ass off> Jersey Shore douchebag
So no, New does not beat old

 

[Dante47]

Fun character who can say a decent insult without cursing his ass off> Jersey Shore douchebag
So no, New does not beat old

Jersey Shore? NOTHING deserves to be compared to that...

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Fun character who can say a decent insult without cursing his ass off> Jersey Shore douchebag
So no, New does not beat old

New Dante makes Jersey Shore look like the idiots that they are.

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

Well, I think Enslaved had that problem a bit with the 'Ninja Theory showing us what we wanted to see' because except for the first trailer, it didn't really dive into the whole concept that Monkey was being enslaved against will. The later trailers played it that they were buddies on an adventure. The thing with trailers are, they don't paint the full picture. In fact if you were to work it right you could make a trailer that is misleading to the actual material.

On number 1, is that really a bad thing? There was a lot of backlash so it is understandable why they would tweak things around a bit (also gettng him to dump the smokes even). So here is the question you have to ask yourself: Why critic the game for changing Dante to look more like the original Dante (in facial appearance and personality) when that's what's most of us were angry about him lacking in the first place? Hyper's arguement on him not behaving like someone who was tortured doesn't make sense, because people react do differently to abuse. If you want a good example of that go watch the film Good Will Hunting, that featured a similar character that made wise-crack comments and acted much like Dante in a way, but he turned out to have suffered abuse from his father and was an orphan. So yes, maybe they did change him. But the anger in that character for what he's had done is still there and plays when he's fighting and mocks demons.

With number 2, well...I think that might be what fans are struggling to accept about the old games and what hasn't really hit them yet. So, forgive me if this sounds harsh, but it's the truth. =(

The original games, they're over.

Just like the old Tomb Raiders, I'm never going to see any of those anymore. Lara's gotten a full reboot now. And Silent Hills as well, their formula changed, no more adventures from James or Heather from the original games, even though they could've done it, they didn't. You think I'm not sad about that? Of course I am, I'm furious they've changed that series. If I'd had gotten into Devil May Cry before hand I think be upset about it too.

The sad thing you have to accept though is...nothing lasts forever. A game, a film, a tv series, they all end whether we want them to or not. But what about adaptations? How many times has Oliver Twist been redone? The Spiderman film remake recently, it's different from the first 3 films but is it bad off for that? Things change. It's hard to accept that change when DMC4 didn't go out on a high note (or maybe it did if you think about the way Dante, Trish and Lady burst through those doors guns blazing and smiling). But, you have to accept DmC is an adaptation of that series. Just like how the Sherlock Holmes gets new adaptations even after all these years. They're never going to be exactly the same.

If DmC fails, Devil May Cry is gone. You may never see it again. Just as much as I keep hoping for the old Silent Hill formula, it's not going to get a continuation. Regardless a new adaptation on something isn't stomping on what made the original so great. It's just a new take that some will or won't like, whatever that series might be.

So um...please don't eat me :'( *holds up flower*

Ha, don't worry we're all friends here. I thought it was interesting how you brought up the Spider-man reboot, because it's a great comparative example to DmC as a successful reboot. You compared it's change of pace next to the Sam Raimi movies as similar to DmC's difference from Devil May Cry, but actually, Raimi's movie is much closer to DmC. The Peter Parker in his movies is a lot different than the Peter Parker from the comic books, and once Raimi started taking liberties with the source material, hardcore fans similarly started crying foul (Not to say I'm not grateful for those movies, anyone who's read James Cameron's interpretation of the web-slinger on Cracked.com know what I mean). The point is, that since this movie has come out, people have been calling Andrew Garfield, and the direction of the new Spider-Man superior compared to the older series. Why? Because of it's adherence to the original ideas that made the comics great, as well as it's respect of its predecessors in the Raimi Trilogy. It's these traits, or lack thereof, that make me conversely dislike DmC.

You asked "Why critic the game for changing Dante to look more like the original Dante (in facial appearance and personality) when that's what's most of us were angry about him lacking in the first place?" Well, let's first ignore the irony of trying to make your new character more like the one he's replacing and acknowledge that what the game designers have chosen to carry on from the previous game is not a reflection of the adherence I was talking about in the previous paragraph. Just because their character has white hair in his Devil Trigger mode, or has two guns named Ebony and Ivory doesn't mean he is Dante. We don't like Dante just because he trash-talks and doesn't give a sh*t. Although the original Dante made jokes and appeared to be ambivalent to the problems of others, he was shown to express regret, empathy, and conviction when faced with problems like Trish's betrayal, or Lady's unraveling. He professes to the latter, "At first I didn't give a damn, but because of you, I know what's important now." We see that the new personality they've given their character is arrogant and mean, a far cry from both their original reboot trailer as well as the original Devil May Cry Dante, but one they profess is ironically more "Dante-like" to appease the fans. Generalizations like that insult the intelligence of the fans and seems to suggest a rather ignorant viewpoint on what they think makes Dante cool. They've focused more on aesthetics and missed the mark with what made us fall in love with Dante in the first place such as his connection to humanity, which apparently didn't seem very Dante-like to them, so now he's part Angel. So, what we have now is this new Dante, stuck in a Limbo weirdly befitting his game. A man with a different look and a different story, but an attitude which aspires to be more like the Dante we know and love but missing the mark completely. This is the character clash Hyper was talking about. The two don't fit and it feels forced.

The least Ninja Theory can do is tip their collective hat to the original series, but unlike the respect Spider-man obviously has for its predecessors, Tameem and his crew have shown constant disrespect towards the original series in such a manner that it seems like they are, as you put it, trying to "stomp" it out of existence while they ironically need it to establish their new franchise (remember they're making a movie now). A lot of influence from the previous games can be seen, albeit, contrastingly paired with Ninja Theory's new politically charged modem and it just makes them look foolish and unimaginative which is a shame because those moving areas are definitely original and cool. It's like Paul W.S. Anderson's Resident Evil movies. Every original idea he has (c'mon, that quarter-shotgun scene in Afterlife was batsh*t cool) is marred by the fact that everything else is filled with derivative components he's ripped from the Resident Evil games and placed out-of-context in his movies under the banner of "fan service."

Look, I've gone on for a bit, so let me just finish with this thought: Ninja Theory originally wanted to make a game that was the polar opposite of Devil May Cry. I'm sure it could've worked, but their timing could not have been worse. Fans were only partially sated by DMC4 and were drooling for DMC 5 when the reboot was announced. It would have been smarter to conclude the Devil May Cry's storyline before creating a new one, but by doing so, Capcom ensured that the new project would garner harsh criticism. So, instead of continuing to develop a game that could have been entirely separate from Devil May Cry, Ninja Theory was and has been forced to validate itself ever since, and what's the best way of doing that? By bashing the competition, in this case, Devil May Cry.
What could have remained two separate worlds has now been adulterated by Capcom's hurt pride and need for green. Now, they've bet everything on DmC. They've got the game (which hasn't even come out yet), an upcoming movie, and a new character which they and Ninja Theory now feel they need to use to erase our beloved Devil May Cry like it never happened. It's really the fans' fault though. This could have all been avoided. We just wanted Devil May Cry 5 too much.

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

Wait what? How can you love a character that has about as much of a backstory as a Character in Tekken, over a character that is actually human and has normal mood swings?

The only time I saw an actual character development in DMC was in DMC3's end, Trish in DMC doesn't count, that was poor imitation of char. development.

*Ahem* New Dante, or New-te if you will, is part Angel and part Demon so he not "actually human" as he possesses no humanity in him. Guess Ninja Theory thought "ANGEL POWERZ!!!" sounded cooler than "human empathy".

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

Just saying that you have no right to criticise the new Dante because of "bad writing" when the Old Dante was the sum of his one-liners...

Meaningful Dante Quotes:

"Mundus...his heinous ways make me sick...killing even his own...like they were nothing. My mother used to always tell me that my father was a man who fought for the weak. He had a courageous and righteous heart. In the name of my father, I will kill Mundus!"

Don't come any closer you devil! You may look like my mother, but you're nowhere close to her, you have no soul! You have the face but you'll never have her fire!"

"My mother risked her life for me...and now you too...I should have saved you. I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with light!"

"We are the Sons of Sparda, within each of us flows his blood...but more importantly...his SOUL! And now, my soul is saying it wants to stop you!"

"You will fumble in your opposition of my quest. Though, I encourage! For an opportunity to battle a being of such grand delusion as you, is a sweet fortune!"

 

[Razyel]

*Ahem* New Dante, or New-te if you will, is part Angel and part Demon so he not "actually human" as he possesses no humanity in him. Guess Ninja Theory thought "ANGEL POWERZ!!!" sounded cooler than "human empathy".

Meaningful Dante Quotes:

"Mundus...his heinous ways make me sick...killing even his own...like they were nothing. My mother used to always tell me that my father was a man who fought for the weak. He had a courageous and righteous heart. In the name of my father, I will kill Mundus!"

Don't come any closer you devil! You may look like my mother, but you're nowhere close to her, you have no soul! You have the face but you'll never have her fire!"

"My mother risked her life for me...and now you too...I should have saved you. I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with light!"

"We are the Sons of Sparda, within each of us flows his blood...but more importantly...his SOUL! And now, my soul is saying it wants to stop you!"

"You will fumble in your opposition of my quest. Though, I encourage! For an opportunity to battle a being of such grand delusion as you, is a sweet fortune!"

Well *Ahem* to you too Didn't your mom ever tell you the difference between human emotions and being human? If you are trying to point out that new Dante shouldn't have any human emotions because he isn't biologically human makes no sense.

For example one guy named Sparda comes in mind Now tell me how a full blood demon can have "human emotions" ?

Good job you managed to find great quotes especially the ones from DMC1 are good.

But that wasn't my point, out of 4 games the best writing is found in the first, second doesn't have any, third does a decent job considering it was made in 2005 still not better than DMC1 and then we have DMC4 which made no sense.

Now the point wasn't to say that there isn't anything good about the writing of previous games, but there is a huge difference between decent and good/great story.

Now if someone says that the story of DMC4 is better than for example MGS1, I won't take him seriously. So now if somebody claims that previous DMCs story is better than new ones, there are two things that won't match:
Story development in gaming industry has taken leaps and bounds in a few years so it's not fair to compare the older games by today's standards - while the setting is good in all of those games, only two of those games had good stories ( for 2001 & 2005 ) one was horrible ( DMC2 ) one was only decent ( for 2008 ).

Second: we have seen only few story trailers of DmC and yet some people are comparing finished games with unfinished product. Yet the comparisons are almost fair, reason? 'Cause DmCs story is something a lot bigger, so now we have already enough content for one game although we haven't actually seen anything yet...

Man, this post became way too long...

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

I remember seeing some people say they were losing interest in the series because Capcom wasn't giving anything worth while. We get a reboot for a series that was losing fans, only for them to come back and say there was nothing wrong with the original series.

In my opinion, people hate it because it's messing with something they had grown used to. As was already said, people can't accept change. It's one of those damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situations. If Capcom had continued with the original series, there would have been complaints about there being nothing original. With the reboot, it all boils down to it being too different and everyone keeps comparing it to the original series.

I like the changes and don't want this Dante to become like the original, both in looks and personality. They should steer a little farther away from the Dante everyone knows, in my opinion.

Check out my response to Alittleacorn, I think it'll clear some stuff up for you. It's a little wordy, but that's what we're here for right? l

 

[CheeseKao]

Here's my take on the situation.

Being half demon half human is easier than being half demon half angel. Humans are very good at adapting to situations and history itself has proven that. The human side of a half demon half angel could very well adapt to the demonic side and prevent it from consuming him/her.

On the other hand, you have Dante who is a half demon half angel and both sides are polar opposites of each other. Neither side will be willing to co-exist with the other, causing internal conflict. A half demon half human would only need to overcome his/her demonic to prevent it from consuming him/her entirely heritage whereas a half demon half angel would need to conquer, not overcome, CONQUER both sides to put an end to the dispute between both sides and finally be able to think and act on his/her own without being influenced by either side.

Old Dante has it easier than new Dante.

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

Well *Ahem* to you too Didn't your mom ever tell you the difference between human emotions and being human? If you are trying to point out that new Dante shouldn't have any human emotions because he isn't biologically human makes no sense.

For example one guy named Sparda comes in mind Now tell me how a full blood demon can have "human emotions" ?

Well now, someone with a brain? Of course you are a Legacy of Kain fan...welcome sir! I was just juxtaposing Dante's inherent humanity with what DmC Dante's writing team assumed would be a cooler backstory. Arguably humanity can be emulated in many ways by beings that can't be said to be human, but I was just making fun of the the decision to make Dante NOT human because I think was a poor choice. For me, Dante's connection to humanity was one of his biggest motivators and most relateable and interesting character traits. Angel powers just seemed to me like something Ninja Theory thought sounded cooler haha

 

[EllDawn]

I've seen some of you say that Dante just acts like an a**hole and doesn't stray from that mentality. You make me question if you've really watched the latest trailer. You can see conflicting emotions in him when it comes to his brother, anger, determination and regret when Kat is shot and taken. When she asks that he'll be with them until the end, he's not agreeing to it with an attitude, it's more along the lines that he wants to see it through because of a sense of loyalty and probably curiosity. This is what I saw, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one. It's not as pronounced as with the original Dante, but it is there.

 

[darkmanifest]

The original games, they're over.

This, for me, really is the most difficult truth of this reboot. I liked the original Dante and the background, mythology, characters, and gameplay that came with him. It wasn't perfect, but it was part of what attracted me to the series in the first place and kept me loyal through all the ups and downs (I'm looking at you, Nero). And now I'll never see any of the endless hanging plot threads resolved, or see the original mechanics evolve. It's just over, no closure, and here's this new guy, new world, new cast, new rules that I have no idea if I'll like. The reboot can't take the old series away from me, but if I don't enjoy it the way I like everything else in the franchise (yes, even DMC2), then I'll have to stop following the growth of something I loved. And that's tough. So I've got quite a few hopes riding on this game and it makes me super critical.

Anyway, I've accepted that this new Dante is not the old Dante, that's fine. But with what I know so far, I don't really like this guy as a standalone character; he's kind of an unpleasant bastard, really. Needs more fiber in his diet, or maybe a support group, or possibly Jesus. He's got a few great lines and it's really cool how he interacts with Vergil, but that's it. Don't like what I've seen of how he handles in a fight, either. I'm fond of a lot of other things about DmC (Kaaaat), but neo!Dante's borderline nasty personality, overly grimdark history, and dull design (even without comparing him to classic!Dante, he's no longer my idea of a babe), it's kinda ehhh to me. In the original series, Dante (and his moveset) was my main interest, so when anything else annoyed me, I could be forgiving. In this game, the main character himself is starting to seem like the biggest downside, which is sad, since I gotta play as him.

I'm holding back final judgement until the game comes out. I'm really hoping either A) he's less of a tool than he seems, B) he has a major shift by the middle of the game, or C) the other characters are so cool and the gameplay so vicious that I'll get over it. Maybe Kat and Vergil will be unlockable characters. Man, I could really roll with that.

I almost voted for him to go back under Tameem's armpit because that is the funniest thing I've read all night.

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

Here's my take on the situation.

Being half demon half human is easier than being half demon half angel. Humans are very good at adapting to situations and history itself has proven that. The human side of a half demon half angel could very well adapt to the demonic side and prevent it from consuming him/her.

On the other hand, you have Dante who is a half demon half angel and both sides are polar opposites of each other. Neither side will be willing to co-exist with the other, causing internal conflict. A half demon half human would only need to overcome his/her demonic to prevent it from consuming him/her entirely heritage whereas a half demon half angel would need to conquer, not overcome, CONQUER both sides to put an end to the dispute between both sides and finally be able to think and act on his/her own without being influenced by either side.

Old Dante has it easier than new Dante.

Ok, for DmC Dante he's part Angel and part Demon right?
Angels are good and powerful, while Demons are evil and powerful.

Dante from Devil May Cry, on the other hand, is part Demon and part Human.
Demons are evil and powerful, while Humans are good and vulnerable.

Which one do you think is more opposite?

 

[EllDawn]

Check out my response to Alittleacorn, I think it'll clear some stuff up for you. It's a little wordy, but that's what we're here for right? l

I did read it. If I had waited a little longer, I would have been able to see your reply to my post before I did another one. lol.

Over all I stand by what I said. In both of my posts. Especially when we don't know exactly what this Dante is like just yet.

 

[CheeseKao]

Ok, for DmC Dante he's part Angel and part Demon right?
Angels are good and powerful, while Demons are evil and powerful.

Dante from Devil May Cry, on the other hand, is part Demon and part Human.
Demons are evil and powerful, while Humans are good and vulnerable.

Which one do you think is more opposite?

Humans are vulnerable but versatile. In my book, being good at a lot of things is better than being awesome at only one thing. This is why I think humans > angels and demons in an emotional sense. The human heart can adapt to either side. Demons and angels can NOT.

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

I've seen some of you say that Dante just acts like an a**hole and doesn't stray from that mentality. You make me question if you've really watched the latest trailer. You can see conflicting emotions in him when it comes to his brother, anger, determination and regret when Kat is shot and taken. When she asks that he'll be with them until the end, he's not agreeing to it with an attitude, it's more along the lines that he wants to see it through because of a sense of loyalty and probably curiosity. This is what I saw, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one. It's not as pronounced as with the original Dante, but it is there.

Loyalty isn't a very complicated trait. I do understand that with this soft spot for Kat, Ninja Theory is trying to show that their Dante can feel for other people, but honestly, I don't feel like they've made his decision very meaningful or important or even hard to make. The city itself, the government, and Hell itself apparently ALL want to kill Dante, and all Dante does in the game is defy what is presented to him...so...what? Am I supposed to be surprised when he tells them (over and over) to go f*ck themselves just because it's on someone else's behalf? The game wants to present their Dante with stupidly blatant, maddening antagonists? Ok cool. But when he challenges them, don't expect me to faun over what a multi-faceted, conflicted character they've created.

 

[DevilsAdvocate1234]

I did read it. If I had waited a little longer, I would have been able to see your reply to my post before I did another one. lol.

Over all I stand by what I said. In both of my posts. Especially when we don't know exactly what this Dante is like just yet.

Well that's cool if that's your opinion, but specifically considering the points I made, I'm looking for you to express exactly why you didn't agree with them. Put yourself out there. Debate, y'know? ha