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What would you change about Nero

Taramafor

Well-known Member
I mean, what was Dante supposed to do? Ask Vergil if they could hold hands and sing kumbaya as they walk out of the tower together? No, he's there to stop Vergil from opening the gates to Hell and dooming humanity. He knows that Vergil isn't going to stop without Dante resorting to force and so of course he comes with his sword at the ready. :/
All Virgil did was react to what Dante did. Same goes for the first fight. Dante was the first to point his guns. Dante's fear gets the better of him. Good intentions and all.

Why provoke a fight when words are causing Virgil to pause and think? Answer: Because Dante acts in haste. The fight weakened both him and Virgil and gave Arkham the upper hand.

What virgil does is use your own fear against you. The cutscene where Dante rushes in blind and gets knocked onto the floor in 5 is the perfect example here. When is Dante going to learn the folly of rushing in blind?

Simply put, Dante is conflicted with himself. Let's take the cutscene where Urizen eats the apple for example. When Dante is trying to talk Urizen out of it his face is clearly struggling. He's not convicted enough. He's been refusing to listen to conversations in the past (angi and rudra in 3 alone is just one example). He wants to get through to Virgil but he can't quite figure out how. He pauses. Hesitates. He's not as capable as he might pretend to be. And Dante knows it.

Compare that to Nero, who doesn't hesitate for a nano second. I imagine he's been called out a lot more because of Credo if nothing else. Perhaps Credo pushed Nero to do better when he struggled. Regardless, Nero doesn't wait for a moment. He isn't pausing. He's got that conviction and he gets things done. This is the difference between Dante and Nero. If you don't believe in yourself then why would others?

On that note it would be interesting to know more about Credo. He's that "no nonsense" type. He's dead now though. But it's still interesting to think about what influence he might have had on Nero. Credo seems to have been something of a mentor for Nero. If so then this also helps explain why Nero decided to make everything his responsibility in the end.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Omni 2020
I would also change nero's arsenal, red queen is fine but he needs actual devil arms.

The breakers are kind of pointless now he has his arm back in lore, so if they make new games he needs to learn to turn defeated bosses into devil arms.
 

Taramafor

Well-known Member
I would also change nero's arsenal, red queen is fine but he needs actual devil arms.

The breakers are kind of pointless now he has his arm back in lore, so if they make new games he needs to learn to turn defeated bosses into devil arms.
Oh yea. Good point. Nero's weapons always seem limited.

I didn't even care for the breakers to be honest. I want more weapons. As limited as Virgil's weapons may be it works for Virgil. But Nero seems to be missing something.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
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Nero lacks a signature weapon like the other two. An axe or spear would've been a good counterpart to Dante and Vergil's swords.

Nero feels like a brawler so you should play up his hand to hand skills. You could give him a parry system that works on him matching an opponents timing to trigger.

Some wrestling moves would be cool.
 
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Taramafor

Well-known Member
Nero lacks a signature weapon like the other two. An axe or spear would've been a good counterpart to Dante and Vergil's swords.
Spear sounds fitting for him. Some sort of divine spear or something. Or maybe have his wings worked into his attacks. Even outside of devil trigger.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Omni 2020
He is the brawler yet doesn't have gauntlets and greaves ha, he should get those and maybe tonfa or something.

Blunt weapons would suit his fighting style a lot.
 

Taramafor

Well-known Member
Mostly because I think I'd prefer him being raised by Vergil.
Can always do a flashback. Devil May Cry seems to work that in a bit.

Perhaps we'll get a flashback of Virgil, baby Nero and the mother in the next game. I'd like to see something like that. And since 5 had us examine Virgil's past a bit it would make sense to explore it a bit more. See another side to him and all.

This in turn would get Nero to reflect on his past (who would somehow see said flashbacks). Give him a reason to bond with his dad a bit.

If I was going to add that into the next game then I'd have it happen about halfway through the second half of the next game. Dante and Virgil is dealing with the tree currently. So I suspect half of the game will be Virgil and Dante will be in the first half of the game. With Nero in the second half. Except this time instead of Nero "finding his way" he can have this big drastic shift and change and be a more key figure. Making a dramatic entrance halfway through the game.

Kind of like how Raziel takes the stage in the Legacy of Kain game halfway through. A bit like that. Pretty sure DMC5 got some ideas from that game actually. I also sense a bigger threat. Something hidden. Something Virgil may have been preparing for. And we won't get answers until the next game if there even is one.

Suppose we'll have to settle for fan ficton for now. Maybe a lore dump thread for story ideas?
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
I know you weren't talking to me, but I'll explain anyways. The English verb "to coddle" means to treat something gently or with extra care - often used as a pejorative when referring to people such as "parents who coddle their children end up making them unable to handle the harsh reality of society when they leave home and try to work" or whatever.
Ok. So it's just a spelling variant. Just making sure you weren't trying to eat the poor lad.

Nero does feel like he'd be thin skinned. Maybe his ideal rival isn't someone stoic but someone who could trash talk?
Yeah, if you can't take it don't dish it.

That's a thing that's always bothered me since DMC4. Why are all of Nero's opponents such little wee-wees? Nero can say some pretty inofensive stuff and people loose their s++t over it. In 4 it gets especially tame. Nero tells the frog he's not big on frogs and the frog gets super insulted. He doesn't even say anything that far out of the realm of mere conversation and the frog rages at him. Over nothing. Son, you come from the depths of hell. Toughen up. That didn't even qualify as an insult in Canada. Same for whatever the other thing it was that Nero said to get him so mad.

That whole reaction out of Agnus was just as out of proportion and equally nonsensical. Hell hole doesn't qualify as 'foul mouth' outside of a kindergarten classroom and for a guy who has no qualms killing people it shows some dumb priorities.

Then Nero gets all pouty about being called dead weight? These are not things that one should get so bent out of shape over. These aren't even kid insults. You could argue that they just don't want to push that PG rating or that they just aren't comfortable with real insults so they get shy but I'd call BS because they also throw real insults and foul language around on both 4 & 5.

Maybe it's because they've taken the whole grandiose speech from the demons too far. In 2 they didn't talk but in 1 Phantom, Griffon and Mundus didn't sound like they were going for old English. A bit haughty at times but they went a bit too formal in 4. It seems awkward, how some stuff is actually offensive and other stuff isn't but both are treated like Nero's rude and has a potty mouth when 90% he doesn't.

I remember 3's concept art had an older version of Lady but they deaged her for the game.
I remember that. She was supposed to be a mentor type in one of the working drafts. That would've been interesting. I get the whole Bond girl thing but they are sticking too much with characters based on popularity rather than trying out new things.

Coddle means to hand hold.
To cuddle means the same thing. Just different spelling.

It's possible this might be what Nero will become later. Due to the book Virgil leaves him.
I don't think so. Like I said, Nero is going to replace Dante and his character traits have been established as he is. He's a variation on Dante. It'd be nice but unlikely.

I actually see more insecurities with Dante... Dante plays tough but he's a softy really.
Yes and no. Dante isn't meant to be insecure but he is meant to be rather sensitive deep down. He's described, at least in 1, as being rather cool and never panicking, no matter the situation, but he was also very sensitive but never lets that show because demons are very manipulative and they would exploit that.

As for Nero and V, does that mean Virgil remembers what V went through?
Well, yes. The memories Vergil disposed of were the ones from his childhood and his time as a slave under Mundus. His nightmares. Nero wouldn't be something like that. He probably remembers what it was like as both Urizen and V.

I mean, what was Dante supposed to do? Ask Vergil if they could hold hands and sing kumbaya as they walk out of the tower together?
You never know until you try.
 
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V's patron

be loyal to what matters
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@Taramafor
You should post in one of the DMC6 threads.

@berto
I don't mind reusing characters but they never figured it what to do with Lady and Trish beyond their introduction.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
don't mind reusing characters but they never figured it what to do with Lady and Trish beyond their introduction.
I don't know how to react to that. I get it when it comes to Trish but these are the people who created Lady. She had this fantastic character and story in 3 but then she devolved intro little more than window dressing. I said before that I get the issue; who is Lady without her vengeance. If there is nothing else to say then make a new character. Better to die out than to fade away.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
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I don't know how to react to that. I get it when it comes to Trish but these are the people who created Lady. She had this fantastic character and story in 3 but then she devolved intro little more than window dressing. I said before that I get the issue; who is Lady without her vengeance. If there is nothing else to say then make a new character. Better to die out than to fade away.
I think there are stories to tell with her post 3. I just lost faith in the current team's ability to tell them.

I'm not sure who Lady is without her revenge but that's worth exploring. It also applies to Dante and Kratos from God Of War. The latter is able to explore and answer it successfully.

So I'm hoping the upcoming animated series opens up new doors for DMC.

Nocturne felt like 4 done better when I watched it so I'm curious what their take on Nero would be.

I felt like Nero is wasted potential so he'd need a massive overhaul- not just him but all of 4 and the anime too.
 
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ef9dante_oSsshea

Well-known Member
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Xen-Omni 2020
Lady has priestess lineage, that should be explored more. That gives lady a new arc, just make it a 6 mission dlc in a future game
 

V's patron

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In hindsight, Nero would've felt more worthwhile if 3 wasn't a Dante prequel. 3 could've been a bookend for him so you'd feel like there is need for a new lead. While currently 3 feels like a tv pilot so jumping back to post dmc1 never felt that appealing. Although I didn't think they won me over with the post 3 content.

Cutting the Vergil's kid angle and having Nero be Knuckles to Dante's Sonic could've worked for me. One of the fan theories at the time was Nero being Dante's half brother so that could've explored it.

Nero's surface level similarities to DMC3 Dante could've worked better if he was paired up with DMC2 Dante. Forcing Dante to deal with a version of who he was would've been fun.

Nero and DmC Dante should've swapped designs lol.
 
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ef9dante_oSsshea

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Omni 2020
Or alternatively make nero some other cambion and humans child that vergil finds orphaned after his mother is killed in a demon attack where vergil intervenes and then kills the demons and nero's dad too, vergil finds nero under a bed wrapped up and has ptsd and can't bring himself to end him or care for him so he drops him in fortuna.

Then nero has no ties to sparda or the twins by blood, and his disdain for vergil can come from learning about what really happened to his parents.With no family ties do dante he would not let him keeo yamato, but would give him another devil arm in it's place.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
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Or alternatively make nero some other cambion and humans child that vergil finds orphaned after his mother is killed in a demon attack where vergil intervenes and then kills the demons and nero's dad too, vergil finds nero under a bed wrapped up and has ptsd and can't bring himself to end him or care for him so he drops him in fortuna.

Then nero has no ties to sparda or the twins by blood, and his disdain for vergil can come from learning about what really happened to his parents.With no family ties do dante he would not let him keeo yamato, but would give him another devil arm in it's place.
I like the idea of Vergil being the reason for why Nero is in Fortuna but not related to Nero. It allows for misdirection and gives Nero something to do post DMC4. Having him investigate his origins would've been fine. I would've had him be the son of Vergil's enemies and some of their relatives are still living.

Although I'm fine with him being the son of Julia and Brad from the anime. Having them move to Fortuna after the events of the anime would've also been interesting. They'd have more reasons to be sympathetic to the Order. Having them become devotees would've been a good way to explore why people fall into religious extremism.

4 has alot of good ideas but does a poor job exploring them.

Both options give Nero a different path to 5 but could've worked better than what we got.

Oh well. There's always next time.
 
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Taramafor

Well-known Member
If not for Lady then Nero might not have been able to get through to Virgil and Dante. Lady's purpose in this game was to inform Nero about how killing a father weighs down on you. She was perfect for that considering we see what happens in 3. She's meant to be on the side at this point. It actually helps establish that DMC characters aren't just all glorified unrealistic heroes all the time. A side character here and there helps contrast more realistic tones.

Same goes for Nico. She's not really "needed", but it helps enforce that there are characters that are "there". In a way that makes some kind of sense without taking over.

A character like Credo from 4 would take the stage a little more, but it makes sense for him. Considering he's the "Get things done" type of character. Characters like Lady and Nico don't have that kind of drive. Trish might though. Trish actually challenges Dante a bit. Perhaps the only reason Dante is kept in check.

Kyrie was sidelined completely. We don't even see her. That might have been too much sidelining considering this is Nero's girl here. I would have liked at least one cutscene where we at least see Kyrie. A quick breif moment where Nero and Kyrie is having dinner or something.

My guess is the devs didn't have a character model for Kyrie.
 
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V's patron

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D) Dante was raised in Fortuna.
Nero just acts like a more juvenile Dante so I'd just do a game where Dante was raised in Fortuna after his mom dies. It's divided into two time periods- the first half is focused on 16-17 year old Dante before he left and the later half focuses on 25-27 year old Dante being asked to come back by Kyrie to help out with a crisis. I'm leaning towards an upstart general of Mundus looking to make a name for himself and that could be Berial. The original ending where Kyrie leaves after Nero kills Credo is used for Dante here. They are ex-lovers who have to come to terms with each other's present in order to save the day and that allows you to do more with the uninspired love story.

Vergil gets a segment called "Prince and the Pauper" detailing Dante and Vergil's reunion at 16. They grew up living seperate lives and throughout this half you can set up his envy of Dante while he plays the role of uneasy ally against Sanctus.

E) It's a straightforward sequel to DMC3.
Dante gets approached by Sanctus's predecessor to be the champion of Fortuna and protect it from Mundus's upstart general Berial. Sanctus is the general and planning a double cross for both his predecessor and Dante.

Nero is cut into two characters-

A) Nero is a young man whose forced to become a demon by the order. He struggles to keep his sanity and Dante has to make a choice about putting him down.
B) Rodin is Vergil's 5 year old son whose mother is apart of the local coven. Dante gets suspicious upon seeing him and investigates.

Trish gets a segment called "Rolling Thunder"- it's showcases how she infiltrated Fortuna as Gloria except this time it's for Mundus.

@ef9dante_oSsshea

What did you think of these two pitches from my other rewrite thread?
 

Taramafor

Well-known Member
Dante was raised in Fortuna.
Yet he's living in downtown going by DMC3. If so then for how long? Being in a tough nehborhood will have hardenered Dante a bit. Dante is also technically a mercenary. So he moves around more.

Nero remained at Fortuna. Until DMC5. Since that place fell apart (legit) he seems to have taken up to traveling with Nico.

Dante's probably reminded of himself when it comes to Nero. Whic raises the question. Why did Dante become a merc?
 
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