Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
I have. I've looked at both personalities. I've also read your post.
I don't agree with it, so we'll leave it at that before it escalates.
What should/shouldn't rub off from DmC into DMC5?
- Thread starter EvilX-81
- Start date
I don't agree with it, so we'll leave it at that before it escalates.
VineBigBoss
GGXRD <3
If you don't have an argument or a real question, or don't pointing out a flaw on my very own argument, just remain silent. You is the one who doesn't look pleased with the way the writters of the games approached their characters and doesn't want to accept the clear differences between their personalities and backgrounds. Don't try to invert our positions here.
EDIT: Before searching for someone's intention, try to stick up just with the knowledge and the ideas they bring up to a debate. Things just "escalates" because some people try to search for intentions and not for ideas in the first place, ignoring all the discussion about the game itself and saying that someone is somehow "biased" and is not "capable" of coming up with good ideas and opinions, all people in the world have tastes, preferences and their very own opinions about things, but this is not like a magical barrier that makes it impossible for someone to give an honest opinion and analysis about something. If you read my first comment with care, you'll see that i've never stated anything about you or your intentions even reading a lot of your posts here on these forums. I try to stay as polite as possible while debating, and i just play with the flow when people tries to start searching for "hidden intentions" behind my posts and expose flaws on their arguments or sources.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
So, basically you're telling me to remain silent if you don't agree with my opinion. The very same thing your post was accusing me of just now.
I said I was willing to leave it alone. And yet you persist.
Take to PM if you really want to talk about it that much.
VineBigBoss
GGXRD <3
Nope, your post was disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing. Not stepping up a real point about why you disagree. And yes, i had to take on the same behaviour but not just for the sake of pointing this fashion of post as negative, but showing for other people who eventually makes posts in this fashion why it's negative and why it should be avoided. It's nothing agains't you personaly, a lot of people do this, and as you've seen: i myself are capable of relying on that unproductive behaviour, but i think that we all have to watch ourselves to not just make posts in this fashion all the times. That's the main reason why so much threads ends up being closed in these forums, and in another forums too.
Yes, i persist but not to show you as an evil person, and i will state again: i have nothing agains't you in a personal level, seriously. I know that it is a common behaviour amongst all of us but it's a behaviour that can and must be avoided whenever it's possible. When we are capable of avoiding this behaviour, even with some tension in the discussion it can flow well and be productive (just look at the discussion we are having in the start of this thread, mainly between me, OpressedWritter and some other members; and by the way, i'm still in debt of further analysis of the Dreamrunner fight for OpressedWritter).
There's a need to post this for everyone to see because it's not that personal, there's a lot of bad blood going on between DmC and DMC fans and we all know this. But it's fairly possible to have good discussions even with some tension, i've already tried to talk with some DMC avid fans like IncarnatedDemon about this, i like her but i disagree with the presentation she puts in some posts she made in these forums. You disagreeing with me is just fine, but pointing out something on my behaviour or personality to invalidate my points is just non-sense and open room to flamewars as you're not the only one who feels bad with some of my posts, and another people can get "on the train" to criticize me at given opportunities like this; i remember one post from Terrutas that was like this, saying to one member that were better to ignore another member because most of his post weren't reasonable, while i agreed with his statement he not explained how this played out and just throwed more fuel to the fire, this is the kind of thing that should be talked in PMs.
That said, i will stop to post on this thread and just leave this going on. My apologies for the off-topic thing, but i just think that it was the time to point this out as we had one topic being closed last week for this same reasons i explained.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
So, you're outright refusing to take this to PM just to prove your point and derail the thread? *sigh*
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Well I would like to see one thing in DMC5 from DmC.
That gun charge canceling feature as well as the gun charge storage feature but not as a glitch but more like a mechanic whether it be a hidden mechanic or abused feature that Capcom put in there so people can find and abuse it. I guess it would work for Nero the best.
Another thing was that one glitch in the demo where Dante will be able to stand in the air and pull of land/ground moves like Prop and Shredder but in the air. I don't know how they did it but its a shame that it wasn't actually used in any Combo vids for the full game...either people didn't know how to do it or NT/Capcom fixed it. Either way having something like that would be crazy but it would look weird considering that there are some moves that involves the ground (some of Nero's combos) and to make the "standing on air" make sense they can use those seals that Dante/Nero use to jump off to perform Air Hike as a spectral platform for them to stand on.
EDIT:
It was the demo before not demon.
Also I think the Gun Charge Canceling/Storage features would work best for Nero's combat since his charges aren't powered up shots and with Nero I find holding the shoot button during combos more often than Dante.
As for charges I don't think E&I should adopt the Ricoshot but instead use the DMC3 E&I charge shot, that one looked badass and I liked how big and powerful the shots were in DMC3 compared to DMC4 and they left a blast trail.
If anything bring back DMC3's Crazy Combos.
That gun charge canceling feature as well as the gun charge storage feature but not as a glitch but more like a mechanic whether it be a hidden mechanic or abused feature that Capcom put in there so people can find and abuse it. I guess it would work for Nero the best.
Another thing was that one glitch in the demo where Dante will be able to stand in the air and pull of land/ground moves like Prop and Shredder but in the air. I don't know how they did it but its a shame that it wasn't actually used in any Combo vids for the full game...either people didn't know how to do it or NT/Capcom fixed it. Either way having something like that would be crazy but it would look weird considering that there are some moves that involves the ground (some of Nero's combos) and to make the "standing on air" make sense they can use those seals that Dante/Nero use to jump off to perform Air Hike as a spectral platform for them to stand on.
EDIT:
It was the demo before not demon.
Also I think the Gun Charge Canceling/Storage features would work best for Nero's combat since his charges aren't powered up shots and with Nero I find holding the shoot button during combos more often than Dante.
As for charges I don't think E&I should adopt the Ricoshot but instead use the DMC3 E&I charge shot, that one looked badass and I liked how big and powerful the shots were in DMC3 compared to DMC4 and they left a blast trail.
If anything bring back DMC3's Crazy Combos.
Yea, pretty sure NT eventually patched air prop/shredder and invisible prop/shredder, which is too bad. Should've perhaps tried taking advantage of them (like making it look like Dante wasn't standing on an invisible platform).
I could see a classic Dante doing a variation of Ricoshot like from an earlier trailer;
I liked the graphic for the DMC3 charge shots more too; the muzzle flash was ridiculously GIGANTIC compared to 4's which looked like there was a little ketchup mixed into the otherwise regular muzzle flash. Hohum.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Well he already had Ricoshot based moves in past games (one move from Nightmare Gamma in DMC1 and the Sniper Rifle). Granted the Ricoshot here looks better than the one in the full trailer.
I say keep E&I the way they are (add other new stuff like an aerial Twosome Time and aerial Honey Comb) and give Ricoshot to another gun weapon.
*Sigh* another thing they can do is have something like gun specials from DmC for each weapon so you can increase each gun weapon's non-style input (shoot + jump at the same time).
Goldsickle
Well-known Member
All I'm seeing are claims about what is suitable or not suitable for "a DMC title", with hardly any explanation of why they are(n't) suitable.
The original DMC game was a Resident Evil 4 reject and every "survival horror" game of the time sports the "hold shoulder button to ready weapon" mechanic.
As DMC strays further and further away from it's Resident Evil roots, the "hold R1 to lock on while moving slowly" mechanic becomes less and less relevant.
In other action games, lock-on is something you toggle on or off, while not losing movement speed.
No matter how much they try to improve upon the old controls, at some point, they're just gonna clutter everything the **** up because it was just slightly modified from a hallway-crawling, key-fetching "survival horror" game.
"Styles" was just a way to regulate Dante's large arsenal.
A lot of the moves didn't start out as Styles-exclusive to begin (like Beast Uppercut, Rainstorm or Drive).
I'm surprised how much the trigger mechanics works best for muscle-memory.
The only flaw is how the PS3's trigger are shaped.
The controls for DmC aren't perfect but it's a step in the right direction.
If even Resident Evil has revamped it's controls from the ground up, it makes sense for DMC to do the same.
VineBigBoss
GGXRD <3
I made some points clear in my post:
- Kills variety
- Unnecessary holding down buttons for simple maneuvers like changing between weapons of choice
Learn to use the Lock-On only when necessary, you don't need to hold down R1 all the time. It's not because is a "survival-horror-like" mechanic that it works bad with the game. Plus, if you just walked behind like nothing when locking-on, it would be ****ing awkward to use command moves, i mean: if you pressed back to execute a Hightime you would run away from the monster, or run towards a monster to use Stinger, the lock-on doesn't "limit" your movement speed but gives you a way to control with much more precision where do you will walk on a fight while not hurting the command moves.
Your point being? Still, it holds up more variety and gives room to a lot of playstyles, i don't see any game that did something similar or better until now.
This is just your opinion and personal experience, not really a feature from the controls on DmC.
Step on the right direction? Care to explain why?
Fran0823
DmC and DMC why can't we have both?
1) DMC5 is a reaaaaaaaaally bad idea, considering you just rebooted the franchise. I think DMC SHOULD rub off into DmC
2) The original universe can be used for a Vita Title....Vita needs it )=
They should keep the simple button scheme but with lock-on, and also add a bit more puzzles into missions, sure puzzles get tedious but so does platforming, a balance beetween the 2 would be heavenly for my sword (See what I did there?)
That said, I believe DmC2 would need a more snarky (Yet not animeish and keep the realistic) Dante I can picture the E3 trailer just fine, we hear a phone ring, we see Kat's tatooed hand picking up and then we hear "Devil May Cry how can I help you?" cut to Dante being badass and making funny jokes then add some of TEH DRAMA and finish with Vergil making an evil speech.
2) The original universe can be used for a Vita Title....Vita needs it )=
They should keep the simple button scheme but with lock-on, and also add a bit more puzzles into missions, sure puzzles get tedious but so does platforming, a balance beetween the 2 would be heavenly for my sword (See what I did there?)
That said, I believe DmC2 would need a more snarky (Yet not animeish and keep the realistic) Dante I can picture the E3 trailer just fine, we hear a phone ring, we see Kat's tatooed hand picking up and then we hear "Devil May Cry how can I help you?" cut to Dante being badass and making funny jokes then add some of TEH DRAMA and finish with Vergil making an evil speech.
OppressedWriter
SamD
I'm working on a video, but if there is one thing DmC does right its the damn controls, the lock-on requirement to do hightime and other moves is just beyond frustrating. It doesn't promote variety it only promotes frustration in someone like me.
And it doesn't require you to hold buttons for changing weapons, it merely is a requirement to change styles, and if you want to make it be one button to just switch to style I can certainly mod that for you when you're at a friends house. But honestly, the controls in DMC4 for Dante are just not good, no matter how I remap them, I'm just struggling with the camera when I can actually control it, and its not in some resident evil like static camera angle.
At the very least, they could have made lock on center the damn target, so your button combinations don't constantly keep changing, so, at least the player would know that when they're locked on, back + Y equals hightime.
MultiBro
Darkest Dungeon
Or maybe you have a harder time to get adjusted to the controls in DMC4 since you have played so much DmC?
I have played both and have no problem with the controls in either game.
OppressedWriter
SamD
That is obviously going to be a factor, but even so, I still find the lock-on requirement for launch and stinger moves to be very frustrating, especially since the camera neglects to center on the target, which makes entering something as simple as back + Y become difficult, because back might be right or up or left based on the angle you locked on from.
A modern hack and slash game like this should allow the player to do combo inputs without requiring lock on, Bayonetta does this, and so does DmC it in its own way. The way lock-on should work, if it were to return, is that when the player activates it, it centers the camera and makes it so their combo inputs are static; and then when its off, the inputs should be dependent on the direction the player is facing.
VineBigBoss
GGXRD <3
I'll just make a rushed comment because i'm studying right now, but my opinion on this post is:
It promotes variety... i mean, you can input at least 3 different basic movements with their own follow-ups with just one button and a command. I mean, it's possible to create variety without them but it becomes severely limited when reach a certain point. About the frustration you have i will talk about this human factor in a second.
I know you can mod it, and if another people would like to have a mod like this i surely would test it to see how it plays. But the problem is not just having to actually hold the buttons, but the purpose of holding this buttons and the mapping itself, i mean: you have two different buttons to change angelic/demonic stances and weapons while you could work these buttons to do another things and implement another moves to the game. Don't get me wrong, i think that the DmC button mapping works just as fine with DmC and i would not make major changes into it, but the point is that it wastes too many buttons to put this control scheme in a more "classic" DMC game. I'm very used to DMC's control scheme in general... so my experience prone to be different than yours, and that human factor is obviously a thing to think about as you're making these games for humans to play; but the things is: execution is just a matter of muscle-memory, i play fighting games a lot and a lot of them requires an absurd ammount of muscle-memory, often you have to deal with 1 frame links and some complicated motions (DPs, HCBs or HCFs) midcombo so it's kinda "easy" for me to get used to these things and pushing the analog away or towards an enemy became a very "second nature" thing for me when playing DMC over the time. The thing is that the human factor is to be considered, but still, i don't think we have to limit or make too much acessible some control schemes, most human beings are capable of doing this kind of things and not struggling so much with it, it just takes some time... some people take more and others less, but i really don't think that command movements are this complicate. Obvious, most of this are just my pesonal experience and feelings about the controls.
I think that we can consider this kind of complain, there's always room for improvement. But i really don't know too much how the programming for in-game cameras work, it can be somewhat limited so in the end of the day it can be a not so significant change.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
There is one thing....ONE THING....and I MEAN ONE THING
From DmC that should rub off into DMC5.
TRAINING MODE
F*ck everything else.....it just needs this.....granted my anti-DmC side is now coming out:
Even if DMC5 does get a training mode, I wont give DmC any credit......training mode is something that was in the long run and DMC5 didn't need DmC to do it first to finally have it. If anything DmC most likely got its idea for training mode from Bayonetta's training room.
I'm not done yet
If Capcom is going to incorporate a Training Mode they should look at other games (by other games I mean they're fighting games and even Anarchy Reigns) to see how to do Training Mode right (customizable settings ie. what enemies you want to face, how many of them, and their aggression level from blank punching doll all the way up to DMD difficult). DmC's training mode was pretty lackluster (sh*t) compared to other game training modes.......it's slightly better than Bayonetta's...well maybe....but I do give it credit for being there at least.....its better than nothing.
From DmC that should rub off into DMC5.
TRAINING MODE
F*ck everything else.....it just needs this.....granted my anti-DmC side is now coming out:
Even if DMC5 does get a training mode, I wont give DmC any credit......training mode is something that was in the long run and DMC5 didn't need DmC to do it first to finally have it. If anything DmC most likely got its idea for training mode from Bayonetta's training room.
I'm not done yet
If Capcom is going to incorporate a Training Mode they should look at other games (by other games I mean they're fighting games and even Anarchy Reigns) to see how to do Training Mode right (customizable settings ie. what enemies you want to face, how many of them, and their aggression level from blank punching doll all the way up to DMD difficult). DmC's training mode was pretty lackluster (sh*t) compared to other game training modes.......it's slightly better than Bayonetta's...well maybe....but I do give it credit for being there at least.....its better than nothing.
So, classic DMC should stick to how they handle the orb collecting rank? Didn't think anybody enjoyed hunting around for those hidden orbs each time they play a level if they were going for SSS.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
(let's change this so that Vergil (who's on the other end of the line) is talking to Dante instead of Kat)
You don't know who I am... you don't know what I want... yet. If you think I'm looking for ransom for Phineas, I already know that you don't have money.
But what I do have, are a very particular set of skills. :devil:
Skills that I have acquired over rather... hellish experience. Skills that make me a nightmare for someone like you. If you let me pursue my reign now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will spare Kat.
But if you don't... :steve:
I will look for you. I will find you. And I will kill you. :/
Dante: Good luck. :troll:
Goldsickle
Well-known Member
Could you explain this?
This pretty much locking on in the past DMC games.
Unnecessary holding down of a button.
More so in the first game, since you can't shoot while standing on the ground, unless you hold down R1.
Here, you're not actually holding down all the time but only for a few moves.
While I'd normally go for toggling than locking on, I'd have to change my opinion on this because the Devil/Angel trigger system was actually good for muscle memory.
Sorry, I don't wanna "work around" a flawed mechanic.
I'd rather they just fix it so that lock-on is on toggle and I don't lose speed during lock-on.
Like I said before, R1 as the "draw weapon" button makes sense in older "survival horror" games.
They don't make sense here at all.
That's implying that High Time must only be executed via back + attack.
This is what DmC's doing. Revamping the controls from the ground up so the signature moves don't become lock-on dependent.
Not at all, since it's fact that DMC was a Resident Evil reject and it's control scheme was merely adding upon typical controls of "survival horror" that's no longer relevant and will only be more cluttered if they continue this path.
It's a step in the right direction to create controls from scratch that are optimized for a fast-paced hack-and-slash, rather than continue their course by just improving upon an old, outdated control scheme.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Boo hoo. I think almost every game that has hidden stuff such as Blood Orbs, Rings, Coins, etc (mostly Mario and Sonic games) does it like this.
If that is the case, then Sonic and Mario and other games that DO THE EXACT SAME THING should follow in DmC's footsteps.
Plus it doesn't matter whatsoever since it only counts and register your highest grade (that you've earned) so if you got a D-Rank once it won't matter if you already had a S-SSS in the same mission since it only counts your highest score (this isn't Bayonetta....a load of BS that was).
Meaning you only need to get the highest available score once....so once you do....does it really matter getting a S-SSS rank again for the same mission?