Besides the fact that the whole demonkind isn't entirely evil has been already a fact ever since the first game, one the central themes of DMC is that as unbelievable as it may sound for the general populace, there indeed are kind and compassionate demons out there. Making them the norm rather than the exceptions would ruin the point and lessen its impact as I see it.
STORY THEORY: DMC5 is DmC2?
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Besides the fact that the whole demonkind isn't entirely evil has been already a fact ever since the first game, one the central themes of DMC is that as unbelievable as it may sound for the general populace, there indeed are kind and compassionate demons out there. Making them the norm rather than the exceptions would ruin the point and lessen its impact as I see it.
I love all things broken in DMC. If there's something broken, I say... if you nerf it, give me an option to revert it. With the demon dodge though, I found the nerf to be silly. Regardless of the modifier, it's ALWAYS a dominant strategy. There's no downside to it, ever. Always demon dodge for that power boost. The nerf seemed so pointless... it's such an easy mechanic to ignore, especially since it doesn't actually add anything to the combat.
If you have over powered pistols or something of the like, then that's where I agree that a nerf would be justifiable. A player can't just ignore pistols... those play into the gameplay itself. You can't ask a player to ignore a portion of the moveset, that just removes variety.
actually, these whole no angels in DMC could change if the case was indeed they incorporated DmC to DMC --will appeal all fans, as said by itsuno--, the origins of angels themselves could change to best suite the DMC lore, it might not be myth afterall --for example.
but ofc, i'm stretching
Not to mention, making angels canon would be the last step needed to place DMC in the same universe as Bayonetta... if Capcom ever wants to do a crossover.
But making them an exception just gives off the idea that majority of Demons are just evil and need to sealed away forever. Its kind of annoying that every new demon is at this point, just a generic badguy, its getting trite.
What i want is proper characterization of demons and a proper resolution to the Demon/Human conflict rather than this sealing business, which doesn't really seem to be a permanent fix.
Gives that idea because that is the idea. They're demons. They're supposed to be evil by nature. If their nature was simply neither good nor evil then they'd just be reskinned humans. The fact that only a few of them decide to be different makes those few special and interesting, because they refuse their natural alignment and show the human characteristic of free will. If it turned out that is the norm then that would suddenly make those demons mundane and cheapen the whole premise the series is founded on.
I dunno, complaining about demons being evil sounds like complaining that, say, a sport named basketball is about throwing a ball into a basket. It just doesn't make sense. No offense, of course.
Well in Christian theology which is what Devil May Cry is based off of demons are basically pure evil (no exceptions). There are other mythologies where demons are more like beasts or cryptids. Not good or evil just a force of nature (some can align as evil while others just are as evil as an hyena or lion).
Granted Devil May Cry at the end of the day are written and made by Japanese people who I doubt are Christian so they could have a different approach to Western demonology and Christian theology. So they can have different approach to the subject.
Seriously? Haven't you ever watched a horror movie? They're the ones you don't sell your soul to. It's like saying we shouldn't have Nazis as villains because it gives the idea that the majority of those a'holes running concentration camps are just evil.
Why? other than for bad writing purposes, it isn't interesting to have bad guys who are just evil for the sake of it.
They already are "re-skinned humans", all fictional anthropomorphized non-human characters are "Re-skinned humans". Its just that the demons are 2d dimensional and evil for the sake of it. Not unlike 2 dimensional human cartoon villains.
Demons being on the gray morality rather than a black&white morality is infinitely better.
DMC is a fictional universe, it can have good demons. Stop looking at this from a strictly western point of view where Demons are inherently evil. That doesn't have to be the case for the demons in DMC written by Asian writers.
Yes, that's why i want DMC to be different. Its pretty damn boring to have some generic 2 dimensional "Evil guys". I prefer my stories with more depth, where the villains&characters are more fleshed out than "I was just BORN EVIL".
Because that's what demons are. DMC clearly bases its demonic concept on Christianity, I don't know if you've noticed.
It's like saying that scary and feared creatures like, say, vampires, should stop being that because that's what they've always been portrayed as and instead they should be the total opposite of that, like sexy, dreamy beings that everyone would love to... Oh wait a sec.
I know, old joke. Old, but gold.
And it does. It's just not the norm because that would defeat the purpose of having unique individuals within the demon ranks.
I'd argue that having SOME demons being on the grey morality is better. Making them all like that makes it so that there's no individuality and defiles the premise that... Ah I'm just repeating myself now.
The anthropomorphization has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, physical appearance is irrelevant to this convo.
It would be funny if Nero was revealed to be Half-angel but I'd settle for his mom being the DMC version of Kat.
So rather than an action game where you hack and slash your enemies you want to talk to every single one of those demons? Determine their likes and dislikes to see which is evil and which is not before you pop one? I think Shin Megami Tensei will be more up your alley. Hack and Slash games aren't exactly the right genre for the moral debate on the nature of devils and the possibility of them being the nicest of entities. What exactly would you want as opponents, then, if we're removing the demons are evil out of it? if not the demons who are you going to fight and kill? Should Dante start killing humans because they were the evil ones all along? That's a theme that's better explored in a media where the tutorial doesn't have you killing of you're potential good guys with monstrous appearance from beginning to end.
Again, please refer to my comment on Nazis.
I understand your want for more thought out characters but considering the nature of the game you're not going to want to determine which is good or evil individually. That sounds like one boring action game. And if rather than individually, collectively what would you have their motivation for doing demony things be?
For a main character, sure, add a layer or two of complexity, Vergil would be a good place to start, but adding depth to all your opponents? Having an overall arching notion that the demons that have been killing people left and right aren't that bad, though? You might as well invite every zombie to dinner to make sure they are, in fact, soulless flesh eaters and not misunderstood ghouls with hobbies and interests of their own who are just trying to make it in the world of the living before blowing up the Spencer mansion.
You mean Sparda or that Brad dude from the anime? They're there but the significance of ether would greatly diminish if they weren't the exception but rather the rule. If you want a demon with dept that's fine but we're well past the point of the possibility that they're all just like regular dudes who can be either good or bad. Re-skinned humans, as it was phrased before. One or even a few? Sure. Having the main villain be more complex would be a welcomed change, even if it was a demon, same for a side character, but not as a rule.
That's not really accurate, either. The only place where demons are not seen as evil spirits is in Greek myth where daemons are just spirits of neither evil nor good. However, every other culture will tell you demons aren't your friend. You don't accept an invitation from the devil (not to dance, not to dinner, not help you solve your problems), you don't make deals at the crossroads and you sure as hell don't make nice with them under the possibility that they're just misunderstood. Even shinto priests will tell you that. Why do you think most religions have rites of exorcism? Yes, even Asian and middle Eastern ones. I'm pretty sure native American cultures have them, too.
Even in fiction 'nice' demons are the minority. How many good hearted demons are there in InuYasha? 10 tops. How many evil? Thousands upon thousands. How about Berserker? Yu Yu Hakusho? I can think of two examples where the situation isn't so but that's the focus of the show. Putting aside the obvious demons are bad rule, within its structure of those shows that is the established parameter for those stories, what the show is about and a rule it instates for its lore, that demons there aren't evil. It's like establishing that in the Lost Boys vampires are a'holes and dress like bikers and then saying they'd have more depth if they were conflicted rather than party animals. Why not? Because in the lore of that story we've established what they are. Changing that changes the themes and the focus. Here, specially, when we've seen them kill, eat, and sacrifice humans in every medium the franchise has been in. A little late to say 'once you get to know us.'
I guess father Karras and father Merrin should've let the demon inside of Ragen because as it is, well, that would've been better writing if the demon was just a fun loving prankster. Same for the entity in Paranormal Activity. It would've given so much more depth to it if it were just lonely and misunderstood. When we see in humans we don't dismiss it at bad writing, we attribute it to human nature, so I don't really have a hard time believing it.
I don't mind that something shows a concept that defies the established norm, I've played a lot of Bayonetta in my time and I'm catholic, but once you've established something as fundamental to the lore as 'demons are evil' you probably shouldn't go trying to make a 180 on it. In BloodRayne vampires are evil, in CoD and every WW2 game ever made it's the Nazis, the zombies, the Aliens, the parasitic organisms that have taken over the town and kidnapped the president's daughter, the goombas, and so on. Making any of these more complex wouldn't be a bad thing, like motivation or a struggle of their own, but claiming that they were good all along doesn't feel hernest, specially after all the harm they've done.
We're just gonna agree to disagree on this one. You guys believe Demons MUST be evil because that's the common preconception and that's how its everywhere in media, okay whatever. But i personally believe that demons being more complex than 2 dimensional evil bad guys would greatly benefit the series in the long run. Maybe its just me, but cartoon evil guys vs good goody guys black/white morality gets old pretty quick. That's why DMC3 has the most compelling story in the series because Vergil isn't totally evil or totally good but rather somewhere in the middle.
Actually, what i meant by that is any Humanoid character in fiction is written with humans as a reference. So saying that writing Demons as more complex characters makes them "re-skinned humans" is bullshit as they already are written like evil humanoid creatures anyway, just very 2 dimensional ones.
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nope, not just you, i like the idea too, something that isn't always that something.. like gabriel in constantine movie, don't i just love that..
there's no harm for DMC universe in making things more --ugh, what was the right word, i swear i knew that word yesterday--
no, i was looking a word similar to vary; spice things up; lively, could've used one of those, but i wanted that one word.. lol.. not important..
Nothing prevents them from making one of those more grey in morality demons the villain. I don't see how having a villain of that kind necessarily requires them to uniform ALL demons, which at this point have already established traits in the lore, to that archetype.