Spotted an oddity in the game (share your oddities thread)

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

Vergil: Brother, our mother was Mexican. Our father was Korean. We...are Gerbils.

lol yea if thats what they wanted to do they can go right ahead. i am by means saying that i would consider that a "good" concept but who are we to demand they create a work of fiction a certain way?

 

[Macabre]

lol yea if thats what they wanted to do they can go right ahead. i am by means saying that i would consider that a "good" concept but who are we to demand they create a work of fiction a certain way?

Paying customers, and we make our demands known through talking about it and where we spend our money.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

its their universe. they can make neiphilim be whatever they want to in it.

oh look, somebody knows what the term CREATIVE FREEDOM MEANS, or all i care, nephilim can be rainbows with dog faces that shart flaming candy because they don't actually exist, THEY ARE WHAT A WRITER SAYS THEY ARE, REGARDLESS OF ANY ESTABLISHED FICTION IN OTHER STORIES, PERIOD, NO DEBATING THIS FACT

 

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

Paying customers, and we make our demands known through talking about it and where we spend our money.

being a paying customer does not give you the right to tell someone what kind of story they can and cant write, it only gives you the right to buy it or not.

 

[Martius]

being a paying customer does not give you the right to tell someone what kind of story they can and cant write, it only gives you the right to buy it or not.

People have a right to criticize. How do you think company will try to make better product if not by checking opinions, negative and positive?

 

[mrrandomlulz]

I once made a Rage slide across the floor on its back all glitchy like.

 

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

People have a right to criticize. How do you think company will try to make better product if not by checking opinions, negative and positive?

and when did i say you dont have a right to critique? if i was a game developer i would encourage people to do so, constructive criticism should always be welcomed with open arms. however i wouldnt listen to the people who feel self assured with all their "story building 101" crap who dont seem to understand what creative freedom is *cough cough* (not refering to you btw)

 

[Kammosjuttu]

I've played the game on dificulty levels ranging from Human to SoS, and only SoS have given me Tyrants that walk in the air and a freezed screen after fishing up Phineas' eye (had to shut the PS3 down from the power button since nothing else worked). Other silly things that have happened has just been me screwing up --- or rather, mostly Dante going nuts with the automatic camera because my aiming is lacking. Once I really thought the camera went crazy on its own, but then I realized, that it was only reacting to an enemy that I had accidentally let slip from my grasp before leaping down. The problem was, that the enemy was on a platform road above me and I couldn't reach it where I stood, but if I tried to move, Dante would just start to run in circles or dive into a pit because the camera automatically changed the direction of his running when focusing on the enemy. >_< But, despite these, I enjoy the game.
... But man, I would like to encounter Dreamrunners and such monsters with a penchant for suicide; would make my life that much easier.

 

[Macabre]

being a paying customer does not give you the right to tell someone what kind of story they can and cant write, it only gives you the right to buy it or not.

You know, I was fairly sure that I stated that it's an oddity to completely invert the actual meaning of an established words, mythological or not, and that controlling people through a soft drink is bizarrely light-handed for a demon god, but it turns out I have irrevocably destroyed freedom of speech too. Whoopsy.

being a paying customer does not give you the right to tell someone what kind of story they can and cant write.

Yes it does. They retain the right to ignore us or listen. If our critique is legitimate, they can learn from it and improve. That's why DMC3 is slightly different from DMC2.

Looking at that newspaper extracted from the game, his appointment was a week prior to the start of the game:blink: So what was he doing prior to that? I'm guessing building connections in the human world, building trust so that he could cause the financial crisis, then make himself look good by offering a solution. I say he caused the crisis because again there is something in that article about a load of money mysteriously vanishing, then Kyle Ryder comes along to save the day. And,hey, if a drink is enough to control people, why do more? Maybe there was more, like a demonic McDonlads? Instead of the 'I'm loving it' slogan then have, demonic McDonalds would be 'you will love it'.:lol:

I know I sweated the game alot for it's lack of scope back there, but it's the whole lack of justification behind the masquerade that's bothering me right now. It's all very well when I point out that Mundas should have had a more pervasive dominance over human society with the time frame and resources at his disposal, and people like Loopy who actually want to talk about the game say that it's all part of his subtle plan, but the question is: Why? There's an oddity.

We have no idea why Mundas even needs to maintain a masquerade in order to keep mankind subjugated. Obviously it's so that the game can be an incredibly deep and nuanced cultural satire, but within the universe itself there's no justification given. It's not that humans would be too difficult to control by force, seeing as humans are demonstrated to be pretty pathetic in this setting and Mundas had access to a limitless army of diverse monsters through the Hell Gate, some of whom are bullet proof.

It wouldn't take much to insert a justication either. Say the reason why Angels aren't trying to oust demons from Reality is because God placed a Divine Sanction on this plane of existence that states Demons will be cast out if they operate openly. That justifies Mundas creating the Limbo parallel dimension as a loophole (Thereby playing off the way the wealthy wrangle the law to their own ends) and explains why Angels are a complete non-entity in the narrative. Another way would be if Dante asks Mundas why the hell they go to the trouble of perpetrating such an elaborate illusion, and he replies that he prefers watching people languish in mundanity, with their souls crying out for freedom they don't realise they want and that they can never have. Granted it would be verbal exposition, but this game needs exposition of some kind to inject some meaning other than "America is Evil, Corperations are Evil, Consumerism is Evil, Buy Our Game ($60 also tax)". This game needed a villain with some actual gravitas, with a powerful performance that illustrated how disgustingly insidious he was. This game needed Andy Serkis. It needed Bohan.

I swear if Heavenly Sword had DmC's gameplay I'd have forgiven it's cliche plot and unappealing protagonists.

 

[Winterfrost]

You know, I was fairly sure that I stated that it's an oddity to completely invert the actual meaning of an established words, mythological or not, and that controlling people through a soft drink is bizarrely light-handed for a demon god, but it turns out I have irrevocably destroyed freedom of speech too. Whoopsy.



Yes it does. They retain the right to ignore us or listen. If our critique is legitimate, they can learn from it and improve. That's why DMC3 is slightly different from DMC2.




I know I sweated the game alot for it's lack of scope back there, but it's the whole lack of justification behind the masquerade that's bothering me right now. It's all very well when I point out that Mundas should have had a more pervasive dominance over human society with the time frame and resources at his disposal, and people like Loopy who actually want to talk about the game say that it's all part of his subtle plan, but the question is: Why? There's an oddity.

We have no idea why Mundas even needs to maintain a masquerade in order to keep mankind subjugated. Obviously it's so that the game can be an incredibly deep and nuanced cultural satire, but within the universe itself there's no justification given. It's not that humans would be too difficult to control by force, seeing as humans are demonstrated to be pretty pathetic in this setting and Mundas had access to a limitless army of diverse monsters through the Hell Gate, some of whom are bullet proof.

It wouldn't take much to insert a justication either. Say the reason why Angels aren't trying to oust demons from Reality is because God placed a Divine Sanction on this plane of existence that states Demons will be cast out if they operate openly. That justifies Mundas creating the Limbo parallel dimension as a loophole (Thereby playing off the way the wealthy wrangle the law to their own ends) and explains why Angels are a complete non-entity in the narrative. Another way would be if Dante asks Mundas why the hell they go to the trouble of perpetrating such an elaborate illusion, and he replies that he prefers watching people languish in mundanity, with their souls crying out for freedom they don't realise they want and that they can never have. Granted it would be verbal exposition, but this game needs exposition of some kind to inject some meaning other than "America is Evil, Corperations are Evil, Consumerism is Evil, Buy Our Game ($60 also tax)". This game needed a villain with some actual gravitas, with a powerful performance that illustrated how disgustingly insidious he was. This game needed Andy Serkis. It needed Bohan.

I swear if Heavenly Sword had DmC's gameplay I'd have forgiven it's cliche plot and unappealing protagonists.

you know, sometimes I love how much logic and thought you put into your posts.

 

[Loopy]

I know I sweated the game alot for it's lack of scope back there, but it's the whole lack of justification behind the masquerade that's bothering me right now. It's all very well when I point out that Mundas should have had a more pervasive dominance over human society with the time frame and resources at his disposal, and people like Loopy who actually want to talk about the game say that it's all part of his subtle plan, but the question is: Why? There's an oddity.No, I think he should have gone in all guns blazing, it would have ben much easier. But that's not how it's been written. I did question why if he is like god that he didn't just enslave humans by force and why he took so long to be head of Silver Sacks. Do we even know how long he had Kyle Ryder's body for? Maybe he was waiting for the body to become vacant so he could move in

We have no idea why Mundas even needs to maintain a masquerade in order to keep mankind subjugated. Obviously it's so that the game can be an incredibly deep and nuanced cultural satire, but within the universe itself there's no justification given. It's not that humans would be too difficult to control by force, seeing as humans are demonstrated to be pretty pathetic in this setting and Mundas had access to a limitless army of diverse monsters through the Hell Gate, some of whom are bullet proof.I think the explaination lies in the comic. He needs their life energy as power, so he's draining it slowly or else it will run out. If he went around killing a load of humans and making their lives unbearable they wouldn't breed and then he'd run out of life energy to harvest. By keeping humans in an illusion of happiness, he's still draining the life energy slowly while also encouraging humans to breed the next crop of humans for harvesting.
.

 

[Macabre]

you know, sometimes I love how much logic and thought you put into your posts.

I'm not sure how backhanded that is, but I'll take it anyway. Thanks Chief.

 

[Loopy]

I'm not sure how backhanded that is, but I'll take it anyway. Thanks Chief.

So, anything to add to my comment?

Just thought of something else too. You were saying about why Mundus doesn't use force. There's one instance where force is used against humans. That prison Bob runs. If someone wakes up to the truth; they are taken there and tortured for what he called 'crimes again demonology'. So it seems he only used direct force when a human steps out of line and becomes a threat to his system.

 

[Macabre]

So, anything to add to my comment?

Sorry, I clicked reply by accident. I was already editing an addendum.

No, I think he should have gone in all guns blazing, it would have ben much easier. But that's not how it's been written. I did question why if he is like god that he didn't just enslave humans by force and why he took so long to be head of Silver Sacks. Do we even know how long he had Kyle Ryder's body for? Maybe he was waiting for the body to become vacant so he could move in

I'm sorry if I lumped you in with a camp you don't belong to, but you have been discussing the game's case for why Mundas's plans appear the way they do, and that's admirable seeing as you do it without spraying insults and ad hominem.

I think the explaination lies in the comic. He needs their life energy as power, so he's draining it slowly or else it will run out. If he went around killing a load of humans and making their lives unbearable they wouldn't breed and then he'd run out of life energy to harvest. By keeping humans in an illusion of happiness, he's still draining the life energy slowly while also encouraging humans to breed the next crop of humans for harvesting.

An extended universe is not for explaining away plot holes inside the main body of a work , they're for developing on the background of elements already present in the story. If that is the explanation for why Mundas uses these methods then it should have been in the goddamned game, not in some extracurricular supplement I need to shell out ten pounds for. Hell, at least when FFXIII didn't bother explaining anything about it's asinine storyline it had a dictionary of terms built into the game rather than demanding more money and time from me. You can go right through Mass Effect and never touch the Encyclopaedia Exposita because the story is internally consistent and for the most part clearly defined within the narrative.

I've got my problems with Dead Space, but at least the supplemental novels have done nothing more than flesh out the universe rather than retconning in crucial plot details that should have been in the games in the first place.

Just thought of something else too. You were saying about why Mundus doesn't use force. There's one instance where force is used against humans. That prison Bob runs. If someone wakes up to the truth; they are taken there and tortured for what he called 'crimes again demonology'. So it seems he only used direct force when a human steps out of line and becomes a threat to his system.

That terminology is suspect too. "Crimes Against Demonology"...so what, did they commit crimes against the study and application of logic to demons? I think a better term would be Demon Kind. Are you sure that's used in the game in this context?

What's more, it's shown in the game that the prison is inaccessible through reality, so that begs the question how humans are even transported to it, or how it exists within reality, seeing as only Nephilim can travel between dimensions. I got the feeling that they had two level design ideas (Media Centre and Prison) and just amalgamated them without caring if it made any kind of sense.

 

[Loopy]

That terminology is suspect too. "Crimes Against Demonology"...so what, did they commit crimes against the study and application of logic to demons? I think a better term would be Demon Kind. Are you sure that's used in the game in this context?

What's more, it's shown in the game that the prison is inaccessible through reality, so that begs the question how humans are even transported to it, or how it exists within reality, seeing as only Nephilim can travel between dimensions. I got the feeling that they had two level design ideas (Media Centre and Prison) and just amalgamated them without caring if it made any kind of sense.

Yep, Bob does say that during, I think it's the Overturn level as you get close to the prison.
I would agree with you on the terminology. I think what they are trying to get at is crimes against the demon regime. Also, I am wondering if demons have been made into a religion. The church Dante is in during Under watch is called Saint Agreas. That was the name of a demon, so I wouldn't be surprised if they converted churches into places of demon worship. But then why use the word church? Surely that would imply some sort of Christian doctrine.
Besides, belief in god also requires belief in the devil. Fear the punishment of hell and praise god to get away from it. Fear keeps people faithful. I'm guessing the demons would operate like that.

Bob also reveals his 'god's work' is Mundus' during the part in the prison. I'm not sure if he genuinely belives Mundus is a god, or if this is all a show for the humans (as he is announcing this for the prisoners to hear).

I thought the prison just had huge gates by the looks of it. So if a prisoner was taken in, the demon guards could just operate the gates.
I don't know why the prison was put together with Raptor news, but I'll have a guess. They're just in the same area. It goes from the tran station, to the prison and then the fixed bridge to the media tower.
As Raptor is shown to have a direct link to the homes, Bob would be the first to know if a human is becoming a danger to the demon plans.He also reveals somewhere near the prison that human thoughts are monitored and that any change in them will result in punishment. Maybe only Bob can do this? Or with his zealous fondness for punishment and praise of Mundus, it could just be that he asked for the job.

 

[Macabre]

Yep, Bob does say that during, I think it's the Overturn level as you get close to the prison.

Sweet merciful Azathoth I didn't want to believe that. That's just inexcusable.

Antonaides committed crimes against demonology when he didn't check to see what any of their names mean.

Also, I am wondering if demons have been made into a religion. The church Dante is in during Under watch is called Saint Agreas. That was the name of a demon, so I wouldn't be surprised if they converted churches into places of demon worship. But then why use the word church? Surely that would imply some sort of Christian doctrine.

Not necessarily, Church is a word from Greek and implies a public meeting place, so classically it's a religion-neutral term that was hijacked by Jesus. No problems there.

They way that Barbas pole-licks for Mundas and refers to him as the God he works for is of course referring to media company's claiming that they serve fundamentalist values while they only care about their corporate sponsors. Of course in keeping with this game's level of subtlety it's so obnoxiously blatant and shallow I worry I've insulted your intelligence just by typing it out.

Besides, belief in god also requires belief in the devil.

Not always. Plenty of religious groups do not identify an Anti-God figure even if they do believe in vice and painful retribution for ill deeds. Such as Catholicism if I recall.

I thought the prison just had huge gates by the looks of it. So if a prisoner was taken in, the demon guards could just operate the gates.
I don't know why the prison was put together with Raptor news, but I'll have a guess. They're just in the same area. It goes from the tran station, to the prison and then the fixed bridge to the media tower.
As Raptor is shown to have a direct link to the homes, Bob would be the first to know if a human is becoming a danger to the demon plans.

That still doesn't explain how humans are taken into the prison. It explicitly does not exist within reality except as a reflection visible in the river. Human beings are not capable of going inside of reflections and being held within them, and if they are it isn't defined how this occurs. The tram system doesn't tangibly exist within reality either, at least not insofar as it connects locations in reality to the Prison.

He also reveals somewhere near the prison that human thoughts are monitored and that any change in them will result in punishment. Maybe only Bob can do this? Or with his zealous fondness for punishment and praise of Mundus, it could just be that he asked for the job.

It doesn't explain how The Order's members are impervious to their mind monitoring either; seeing as they closely study the internet and the media we have to assume they're exposed to Barba's work constantly. We don't see much squirrel spunk on the walls of their offices, so there doesn't appear to be any magical warding that protects them...

 

[Loopy]

Sweet merciful Azathoth I didn't want to believe that. That's just inexcusable.


Not necessarily, Church is a word from Greek and implies a public meeting place, so classically it's a religion-neutral term that was hijacked by Jesus. No problems there.
I meant more in the sense of, I don't think they were thinking of Greek meaning when they did the Saint Agreas' church. It looks like a church seen in real life, so that's whay I thought they were going for christianity.

They way that Barbas pole-licks for Mundas and refers to him as the God he works for is of course referring to media company's claiming that they serve fundamentalist values while they only care about their corporate sponsors. Of course in keeping with this game's level of subtlety it's so obnoxiously blatant and shallow I worry I've insulted your intelligence just by typing it out.Pole-licks:lol: More like humps his leg. Yep, I got that part about answering to the corporations and their own gains. It isn't that hard to work out.....



Not always. Plenty of religious groups do not identify an Anti-God figure even if they do believe in vice and painful retribution for ill deeds. Such as Catholicism if I recall.I didn't mean all religions. I meant I was thinking how it seems Bob is setting up this deification of demons. Mundus is shown as both god and demon. If you're on his good side, it's all fine and you should 'praise him for letting you live' (Bob says that). Cross him and you're doomed to eternal punishment. But humans don't find that out until it's too late.
Catholicism does believe in a devil figure. Fourth Lateran Council states in Canon 1:'The devil and the other demons were indeed created by God good by nature but they became bad through themselves; man, however, sinned at the suggestion of the devil.'



That still doesn't explain how humans are taken into the prison. It explicitly does not exist within reality except as a reflection visible in the river. Human beings are not capable of going inside of reflections and being held within them, and if they are it isn't defined how this occurs. The tram system doesn't tangibly exist within reality either, at least not insofar as it connects locations in reality to the Prison. They get them inside the human one and then the demons come out to play and drag the humans into the Limbo version. I think that was covered in the comic too.:/



It doesn't explain how The Order's members are impervious to their mind monitoring either; seeing as they closely study the internet and the media we have to assume they're exposed to Barba's work constantly. We don't see much squirrel spunk on the walls of their offices, so there doesn't appear to be any magical warding that protects them...

Then, that is a big lpot hole then seeing as those tendrils of energy are shown going from the media tower all around the city, presumably to monitor them through the TV sets.
I'm assuming Raptor news isn't the only thing on air. So how would the demons get humans to constantly watch their network? Acombination of virility and propoganda? Or are all shows demon controlled, and Raptor news is just one of many?